I think there isn't a whole lot that changes for Shaq in Phoenix, in terms of his abilities at this stage in this career.
The same questions that were asked here will be asked in Phoenix: Can he stay healthy? Can he stay out of foul trouble?
The difference is, in Phoenix he doesn't have to be the man in order for the team to be successful, and he knows that and accepts it. That's why you've heard him making the comments about being a role player on the team and such.
Miami was attempting to get to this point with Shaq, but Miami just never had the pieces for it to work or to convince Shaq he didn't have to have the ball and be the second option for the team to be successful.
I think Phoenix could have and should have gotten more for Marion, but I do think that this trade can work for Phoenix. I said when Shaq signed his extension with Miami that if he would concentrate on boxing out instead of counting on leaping ability to get rebounds, he could still be a very effective piece for Miami. (This is, of course, assuming they had the pieces in place to pick up the lack of scoring that would surely come as a result of Shaq's age.) I think in Phoenix this is what will happen now.
Shaq will get 6-8 shots per game and he'll bake 4-5 of them and he'll be a 8-12ppg guy with however many rebounds he can muster. I don't think he can be a consistent double-figure rebounder for them, but I think he can give them 7-8 rebounds consistently and, at times, have a 12-15-rebound effort.
Shaq "The Big Cactus" on Phoenix tread.
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BigDaddyPR
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SA37 wrote:I think there isn't a whole lot that changes for Shaq in Phoenix, in terms of his abilities at this stage in this career.
The same questions that were asked here will be asked in Phoenix: Can he stay healthy? Can he stay out of foul trouble?
The difference is, in Phoenix he doesn't have to be the man in order for the team to be successful, and he knows that and accepts it. That's why you've heard him making the comments about being a role player on the team and such.
Miami was attempting to get to this point with Shaq, but Miami just never had the pieces for it to work or to convince Shaq he didn't have to have the ball and be the second option for the team to be successful.
I think Phoenix could have and should have gotten more for Marion, but I do think that this trade can work for Phoenix. I said when Shaq signed his extension with Miami that if he would concentrate on boxing out instead of counting on leaping ability to get rebounds, he could still be a very effective piece for Miami. (This is, of course, assuming they had the pieces in place to pick up the lack of scoring that would surely come as a result of Shaq's age.) I think in Phoenix this is what will happen now.
Shaq will get 6-8 shots per game and he'll bake 4-5 of them and he'll be a 8-12ppg guy with however many rebounds he can muster. I don't think he can be a consistent double-figure rebounder for them, but I think he can give them 7-8 rebounds consistently and, at times, have a 12-15-rebound effort.
Good post, i agree with you 100%. This is just a better situation for both, Shaq and the Heat, i honestly dont see the need for arguments or anything. Miami got Rid of Shaq ad his bloated contract, and got 2 young versatile players back for him one of them an all star, And Shaq is playing with thekind of tea that compliments him and gives him a chnce fora 5th ring. everybody should be happ with this trade, i dont understand some bs around here.
For the 10% here that is still talking... MOVE ON! It is a new chapter here in miami and a new oportunity for shaq!
BTW, im still follwing this team.. i dislike some "heat" fans here, but i got a lot of respect for The Heat org, and for DWade! So ill still be around, like it or not!! lol!!
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MiamiHeatFan2004
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BigDaddyPR wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Good post, i agree with you 100%. This is just a better situation for both, Shaq and the Heat, i honestly dont see the need for arguments or anything. Miami got Rid of Shaq ad his bloated contract, and got 2 young versatile players back for him one of them an all star, And Shaq is playing with thekind of tea that compliments him and gives him a chnce fora 5th ring. everybody should be happ with this trade, i dont understand some bs around here.
For the 10% here that is still talking... MOVE ON! It is a new chapter here in miami and a new oportunity for shaq!
BTW, im still follwing this team.. i dislike some "heat" fans here, but i got a lot of respect for The Heat org, and for DWade! So ill still be around, like it or not!! lol!!
Like you said, it was time for Shaq to move on and I agree it is a better situation for him and the Heat. Shaq can't be a #1 or even a #2 scoring option anymore on most nights, so Phoenix is perfect for him with all of their firepower.
Hopefully he can give 100% effort each night as he was not giving us enough effort in Miami, but now that he is motivated I think he will do that for the Suns. Shaq has a chance for ring #5, but I will not be rooting for him as I would like to see a new guy like Garnett or somebody else with 0 rings to get their 1st.
Since you are a Shaq fan and not really a Heat fan, time for you to move on as well I guess. Have fun on the Phoenix board man, was nice having you here even if we argued a few times.
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CoolD
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BigDaddyPR wrote:Coold... still a hater?? you got your wish, so please let it go.... it is going to be a long long year for you if youre going to be hating on Shaq. Do what most Heat fans here are doing, show some class and move on!!
You should maybe start the "we dont owe shaq nothing thread part 2", should make you feel better......
Is going to be a short year for Phoenix Suns.
Ok, two games in a row Suns can't score at a high pace. That is very alarming for that team that is all about offense. Another thing if people think Phoenix have a shot, they don't. Shaq vs versatile teams has problems. He has been a liability vs McDyess an all the big guys of Detroit. Shaq's negatives, outweight his positives knowdays. In a 7 game series he might have two energetic performances, Phoenix will either get swept or win one game.
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Iputsomepantson
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Shaq is going to end up being $20 million a backup center on the Suns because Amare is too slow to guard many elite PF's and the Suns will be swept in the first round.
I mean how stupid is Steve Kerr looking for doing this trade? Shaq gave them something they already had in Amare and gave up a versatile player that may have been causing problems, but gave the Suns solid perimeter defense and rebounding. I know the Suns were desperate to win this year, but wow, they would have been better off trading Shawn Marion for some role players. A solid PF like Haslem would have helped the Suns win more than Shaq will.
I mean how stupid is Steve Kerr looking for doing this trade? Shaq gave them something they already had in Amare and gave up a versatile player that may have been causing problems, but gave the Suns solid perimeter defense and rebounding. I know the Suns were desperate to win this year, but wow, they would have been better off trading Shawn Marion for some role players. A solid PF like Haslem would have helped the Suns win more than Shaq will.
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Chocolate City Jordanaire
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The Shaq trade was win-lose.
The Suns lost big time. All that trade did is clear cap room when Nash walks away early.
It's foolish to trade for a declining, oft-injured player. Even more foolish to send the second best player, Marion for a worse player. Shawn played all the defense and made the Suns go even in Nash's MVP year. Marion could have been a league MVP the year Amare wasn't there.
The guy the Suns should have traded was Amare.
They could have got Shaq PLUS once all the fillers are included.
Phoenix will be one and done in the playoffs. Kerr will get fired. Shaq's big ego will eventually make him shut up and accept the fact that he is DONE. Marion will have the last laugh when Amare is exposed to be FAR FROM THE BEST PLAYER.
Phoenix made a horrible trade.
Dallas was similarly foolish trading young and picks for Kidd.
The teams that made out best in trades were the Lakers and the Cavs. I expect the Cavs might win it all. Them or Detroit. Houston, New Orleans, Utah, and the Lakers will all crush the Suns now.
Shaq is done.
The Suns lost big time. All that trade did is clear cap room when Nash walks away early.
It's foolish to trade for a declining, oft-injured player. Even more foolish to send the second best player, Marion for a worse player. Shawn played all the defense and made the Suns go even in Nash's MVP year. Marion could have been a league MVP the year Amare wasn't there.
The guy the Suns should have traded was Amare.
They could have got Shaq PLUS once all the fillers are included.
Phoenix will be one and done in the playoffs. Kerr will get fired. Shaq's big ego will eventually make him shut up and accept the fact that he is DONE. Marion will have the last laugh when Amare is exposed to be FAR FROM THE BEST PLAYER.
Phoenix made a horrible trade.
Dallas was similarly foolish trading young and picks for Kidd.
The teams that made out best in trades were the Lakers and the Cavs. I expect the Cavs might win it all. Them or Detroit. Houston, New Orleans, Utah, and the Lakers will all crush the Suns now.
Shaq is done.
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MiamiHeatFan2004
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Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:The Shaq trade was win-lose.
The Suns lost big time. All that trade did is clear cap room when Nash walks away early.
It's foolish to trade for a declining, oft-injured player. Even more foolish to send the second best player, Marion for a worse player. Shawn played all the defense and made the Suns go even in Nash's MVP year. Marion could have been a league MVP the year Amare wasn't there.
The guy the Suns should have traded was Amare.
They could have got Shaq PLUS once all the fillers are included.
Phoenix will be one and done in the playoffs. Kerr will get fired. Shaq's big ego will eventually make him shut up and accept the fact that he is DONE. Marion will have the last laugh when Amare is exposed to be FAR FROM THE BEST PLAYER.
Phoenix made a horrible trade.
Dallas was similarly foolish trading young and picks for Kidd.
The teams that made out best in trades were the Lakers and the Cavs. I expect the Cavs might win it all. Them or Detroit. Houston, New Orleans, Utah, and the Lakers will all crush the Suns now.
Shaq is done.
Cavs looked good 1st game, I want them to win in the East, if not them then Boston. Lebron and Garnett getting their 1st ring would be nice.
In the West I want the Rockets to win.
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MiamiHeatFan2004
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Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Unfortunately for the Rockets, their chances are extremely slim now without Yao. Scratch the Rockets, but I did like them, too, MiamiHeatFan2004.
Yao is a humble, true professional, and it's too bad to see him go down right when his team had everything coming together.
Yea what a shame...............
So for the West I will be rooting for Denver, Golden State and New Orleans.
East I will take the Cavs and then the Celtics. Lebron is just fun to watch and I root for him in the East after the Heat. Garnett deserves a ring so he is my 2nd pick in the East.
I wouldn't be mad if Kidd got a ring either, he has earned one in his career, but I want the other teams in the West that i mentioned to get a ring before him. Iverson really deserves one.
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Mourning_Heat_33
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I love the trade. Shaq gets to retire with a contender. Miami gets an actual player that makes sense in the post-Shaq-in-his-prime era, with a much better contract as of right now. And we actually got a PG who can play defense. Amazing trade for us, as sad as it is to see an era officially end.
For the Suns, they've been doing the same thing for years. It's been fun to watch. It's gotten them as far as the conference finals. But they need something to get them over that hump. Something to separate them. In comes Shaq, who allows the Suns to do what the Heat did for two years with Shaq: fast lineup (aka fast breaks, perimeter oriented with slashers), slow lineup (half court team with inside and outside game). It gave us this dynamic strategy that made us extremely tough to beat in 04/05 and 05/06.
Our slow team was Damon/JWill at pg, Wade at sg, EJ/Walker at sf, Haslem at pf, Shaq at c (the starters) and our fast team was something along the lines of Dooling/Damon/Payton/JWill at pg, Wade/Payton at sg, Shandon/Wade at g-f, Posey at f, Haslem at pf/c, Zo at c
The Suns now have an entirely different strategy to throw at opponents. It's not like all 5 players run the fast break and get transition points. It's 1 to 3 players 90% of the time, usually some combination of Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Hill, Diaw, Amare, etc. Marion is obviously the epitome of that style, which is a huge loss for when they play that style, but the players I just mentioned play that style as well as anyone with an outstanding combo of perimeter D, passing, 3-pt shooting, slashing and athleticism that makes that strategy work.
A tough move (losing Marion), but knocking down the quality of the fast lineup to add a player who brings an entirely different strategy to throw at opponents makes it WORTH IT. Fast lineup, slow lineup. We proved it can work, that a team can have both, that they not only co-exist but with the right players, can flourish. The Suns have the right players, probably better than we did. It will take time for them to learn their roles and learn how to play with the biggest player ever, but the Suns made a good move. And I'm only talking about offense...you can already see it paying off defensively if you watch the Suns play, because now their basket isn't completely unprotected. They have the Diesel's huge mass protecting it and he is deferring shots like they've never seen before.
For the Suns, they've been doing the same thing for years. It's been fun to watch. It's gotten them as far as the conference finals. But they need something to get them over that hump. Something to separate them. In comes Shaq, who allows the Suns to do what the Heat did for two years with Shaq: fast lineup (aka fast breaks, perimeter oriented with slashers), slow lineup (half court team with inside and outside game). It gave us this dynamic strategy that made us extremely tough to beat in 04/05 and 05/06.
Our slow team was Damon/JWill at pg, Wade at sg, EJ/Walker at sf, Haslem at pf, Shaq at c (the starters) and our fast team was something along the lines of Dooling/Damon/Payton/JWill at pg, Wade/Payton at sg, Shandon/Wade at g-f, Posey at f, Haslem at pf/c, Zo at c
The Suns now have an entirely different strategy to throw at opponents. It's not like all 5 players run the fast break and get transition points. It's 1 to 3 players 90% of the time, usually some combination of Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Hill, Diaw, Amare, etc. Marion is obviously the epitome of that style, which is a huge loss for when they play that style, but the players I just mentioned play that style as well as anyone with an outstanding combo of perimeter D, passing, 3-pt shooting, slashing and athleticism that makes that strategy work.
A tough move (losing Marion), but knocking down the quality of the fast lineup to add a player who brings an entirely different strategy to throw at opponents makes it WORTH IT. Fast lineup, slow lineup. We proved it can work, that a team can have both, that they not only co-exist but with the right players, can flourish. The Suns have the right players, probably better than we did. It will take time for them to learn their roles and learn how to play with the biggest player ever, but the Suns made a good move. And I'm only talking about offense...you can already see it paying off defensively if you watch the Suns play, because now their basket isn't completely unprotected. They have the Diesel's huge mass protecting it and he is deferring shots like they've never seen before.
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travis minor
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MiamiHeatFan2004
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theFRANCHISE wrote:haha their spacing is horrible, but he is doing what they did get him for which was rebounding a defense, too bad they can't beat any GOOD teams, except for that boston win
Too bad he isn't rebounding as well as marion was for them and he isn't even close to Marion on D.
Shaq is a lazy player and its catching up to him finally now that his freakish size and athleticism can't carry him at this age.
He should have developed a lot more weapons on offense other than the dunk.
