Marion's contract extension???

[Flash4thewin]

"He is one of a handfull of players in the league who has the ability to score almost 20ppg WITHOUT getting a single play ran for him, all of this while he grabs 10r, blocks shots, steals the ball and defends his man like the best of them. "

Marion like Ben Wallace are perfect examples of system players. How good does Wallace look now outside of the pistons? Marion outside of the Sun avg 14.3 ppg and 11.2 rpg. Since Nash isn't going to magically get traded to this team and its unlikely we become a run and gun team were left with the heat version of marion that avg 14.3 ppg and 11.2 rpg. Is that an allstar to you? Do you want to break the bank for that type of player?

For the record UD avg 12 and 9 while shooting a higher FG%. Oh and before Marion got traded he just avg 15.8 and 9.9 and his numbers have been on the decline.

[HeatSince88]

Don't get me wrong, I love Marion's game.

But if the choice is between re-upping him from age 31 to 36, or instead using that money to get Brand or Boozer at or near their primes, it's a no-brainer really.

- Wade+Marion+Top 4 Pick is not a contender and may even struggle to make the playoffs unless that pick is a near-20/10 performer right away.

- Wade+Boozer+Top 4 pick is a contender for many years to come IMO if surrounded by the right role players.

[CRHeel94]

Who we can get in the draft will have a big impact on Marion's future in Miami. We will have a better read after the lottery.

[heat4life]

"He is one of a handfull of players in the league who has the ability to score almost 20ppg WITHOUT getting a single play ran for him, all of this while he grabs 10r, blocks shots, steals the ball and defends his man like the best of them. "

Marion like Ben Wallace are perfect examples of system players. How good does Wallace look now outside of the pistons? Marion outside of the Sun avg 14.3 ppg and 11.2 rpg. Since Nash isn't going to magically get traded to this team and its unlikely we become a run and gun team were left with the heat version of marion that avg 14.3 ppg and 11.2 rpg. Is that an allstar to you? Do you want to break the bank for that type of player?

For the record UD avg 12 and 9 while shooting a higher FG%. Oh and before Marion got traded he just avg 15.8 and 9.9 and his numbers have been on the decline.

The Ben Wallace comparisons are ridiculous. Ben Wallace in his prime couldn't score in double digits and had a horrendous FT%. Ben Wallace was the ultimate team defender as in he would play from the weak-side as perfect as anyone you've ever seen and end up with either a block or a steal. His man-to-man defense was overrated IMO because of the excellent defenders he played with (Prince, Sheed, Billups etc).

At the least an old Marion should be able to guard one-on-one without a problem even if he contributes 10ppg in a Bruce Bowen-type of role.
Please DO NOT compare him to Ben Wallace who benefited from a good system surrounded by good players to hide his deficiencies.

Let me make it clear here first that I am not suggesting to pay Marion the crazy money he thinks he is worth but let's not undervalue the guy either and trade him for Frye and other garbage I've read about. Shawn Marion on a "fair" contract (around 10mil per) is a more than valuable player on ANY roster and his expiring contract is even a BIGGER commodity. It just gets to me how people manipulate the facts to prove a point.

We agree that we don't extend Marion to the kind of money he wants, that it is better to allow him to expire or trade him for "equal" value in return but we can do all that without trashing his game. Who else do you know that can give 18ppg and 10rpg consistently, play good defense, hustle and not get one play called for him? Are you seriously going to give me Udonis Haslem as a comparable?

[heat4life]

Don't get me wrong, I love Marion's game.

But if the choice is between re-upping him from age 31 to 36, or instead using that money to get Brand or Boozer at or near their primes, it's a no-brainer really.

- Wade+Marion+Top 4 Pick is not a contender and may even struggle to make the playoffs unless that pick is a near-20/10 performer right away.

- Wade+Boozer+Top 4 pick is a contender for many years to come IMO if surrounded by the right role players.

Bravo!!

A great way to be realistic with the same strategy without having to trash Marion's game to prove why we should trade him for peanuts.

[BBallFreak]

Don't get me wrong, I love Marion's game.

But if the choice is between re-upping him from age 31 to 36, or instead using that money to get Brand or Boozer at or near their primes, it's a no-brainer really.

- Wade+Marion+Top 4 Pick is not a contender and may even struggle to make the playoffs unless that pick is a near-20/10 performer right away.

- Wade+Boozer+Top 4 pick is a contender for many years to come IMO if surrounded by the right role players.

Wow, this is one of the first times in a very long time that we've agreed.

I see all these Marion trades here that have us moving him out for lesser players and I don't get it! I genuinely have no clue why we'd take on extra salary for lesser guys just so we can compromise our cap space. Why? I see some people suggesting he will become a locker room cancer if we don't extend him and I don't get that either. That has never been Shawn Marion. He is a very good player and has always struck me as a professional. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not all for extending him to a longterm big money contract, because I want that cap space, but I don't think trading him makes sense, either.

Of course, the flip side of your argument is trading the pick along with Blount and Banks, for a guy the caliber of an Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer. That, without question, is a contender.

[SJ2100]

Of course, the flip side of your argument is trading the pick along with Blount and Banks, for a guy the caliber of an Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer. That, without question, is a contender.

Assuming Brand does not opt out, and the Clips agree to deal him for Blount + #3, the salaries still do not add up. Banks and Haslem would also have to be included in the deal. Even if we resign Brand to an extension after that deal, we would still have near-max cap room for another player in 09, or to extend Marion as well.

MLE
Wade
Wright
Marion
Brand

Boozer is not gonna be traded, maybe he wants to test free-agent waters, but everybody can get the Carlos Boozer trade scenarios out of their heads.

Another option that has not been mentioned would be to pick Rose, extend Marion (say 4 yrs @ $11 mil), and gear up for 2010 cap room. Blount and Haslem will be expiring that summer, and if we can flip Banks for a contract that expires a year earlier, we would have space to resign Wade and pickup another max player. Depending on what happens with Dorell this offseason, we would have only Marion, Banks (if we kept him), Cook, and possibly Dorell once that summer rolls around. After resigning Wade and possibly Bosh or a low post presence, we could use our bird rights to sign Haslem to a similar deal he has now. Fill the team in '10 with a defensive, rebounding center and a shooter/defender at backup guard.

'08-'10:
Rose-Banks-Quinn
Wade-Cook
Marion-Wright
Haslem-Marion
Zo-Blount-(LLE 2 year deal?)

after 2010:
Rose
Wade/Cook
Marion/Wright
Haslem/Marion
Bosh

We would be damn good in both the short and long term

[BBallFreak]

Of course, the flip side of your argument is trading the pick along with Blount and Banks, for a guy the caliber of an Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer. That, without question, is a contender.

Assuming Brand does not opt out, and the Clips agree to deal him for Blount + #3, the salaries still do not add up. Banks and Haslem would also have to be included in the deal.

I'm going to challenge your numbers. Blount and Haslem, financially, would be enough in terms of salary to land Brand. If we were to refuse to include Haslem and instead wanted to include Banks, it would take minimal salary filler (and I'm talking Alexander Johnson).

[SJ2100]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'm going to challenge your numbers. Blount and Haslem, financially, would be enough in terms of salary to land Brand. If we were to refuse to include Haslem and instead wanted to include Banks, it would take minimal salary filler (and I'm talking Alexander Johnson).

Indeed, you are right, when I had originally used the trade checker I tried it with all of them, but both of those scenarios do work. Is there any way you see the Clips settling for Banks, Blount, Johnson, or would Haslem be a deal breaker, in your opinion?

If we made that deal, we would have to explore the option of swapping Marion for a PG or defensive C, either through a trade or in the summer of '09. If that doesn't work, we could also extend Marion, use Dorell as trade bait to land one of those positions and use the MLE to fill the other.

[DBurks2818]

It would probably take Haslem+Banks+#3+#52+Indy 2009 2nd for the deal to go through. The Clippers would be almost completely rebuilding at the point, of course.

[heat4life]

I would think the cheap Clippers are going to want expiring contracts plus the pick. They would demand Haslem and/or Blount because of their contracts. I am not sure they would want Banks

[SJ2100]

Back on topic: If the Heat resigns Marion to a reasonable extension, it would not be nearly as bad as some posters are making it out to be.

Instead of focusing on the summer of 2009, we would just focus our attention to the FA Class of 2010, when Blount and Haslem expire. The only contracts that will be on our roster during that summer would be: Banks, Cook, '08 pick, Marion (if extended), and possibly Dorell (depends what happens to him this summer).

If we were able to find somebody to take on the last year of Banks' deal, we would have a ton of cap room even after resigning Wade. We could use that cap room on our post presence (Bosh), then use Haslem's bird rights to resign him once the cap space is used up. Fill out the roster with a defensive minded center and a quality backup combo guard and we are stacked:

Rose
Wade/Cook
Marion/Wright
Haslem
Bosh

Meanwhile until then, we are still a contender in the East:
Rose/Banks/Quinn
Wade/Cook
Marion/Wright
Haslem
Zo/Blount/LLE or MLE (2 yrs for Kwame or Diop)

Another thing we could do is sign a Diop for a longterm deal this summer, say 5 years at the MLE, and then just trade Blount's expiring deal next year at the deadline for a post presence at the 4, since teams will be gearing up for a chance at max room for 2010. I could tell you right now that the Knicks would LOVE to deal Randolph for Blount at that time so they could make a run at LBJ.

Basically all of these things are possible if we extend Marion to a reasonable deal, so its not nearly as bad a thing as people are making it seem.

[Flash4thewin]

Contract wise we can trade players to make Marion work, the better question is will he be worth his contract in 2/3 years or will he become a dead weight like Ben Wallace. The Marion were getting is not the 20 10 stud of a few years back, even with nash he couldn't avg 16 points on the suns last year before the trade and after the trade to the Heat out produced UD by 2.3 points and 2.2 rebounds at a lower FG%. Thats not putting Marion down just stating the facts that he is on the decline and considering his game is founded on his athletic ability

"At the least an old Marion should be able to guard one-on-one without a problem even if he contributes 10ppg in a Bruce Bowen-type of role."

Yea but Bowen salary is 4 million and he is a 4/5 options scoring wise. Do you think Marion will accept anything near Bowen's salary and role on this team?

[Hoops23]

Us! Memphis! Sign and trade! Hell, their are trades that could occur during the year to get other teams cap space!

Us??? Then why not give him the extension and why wait for next year if the Heat will resign him? The Grizz will have two lottery picks, this year & next year and they will resign Warrick to an extension which will take away some of their cap space, together with the FA signing this off-season. Besides, Memphis is rebuilding and they will opt for young players.

Sign and trade? How could there be a S & T if Miami opts for to sign another FA like Brand and Boozer?

True! there are maybe possible trade to occur to get some cap space but it will be a gamble for Marion.

he's still playing for his contract. Half-assing it won't get him anything. He's still playing for a deal, even if it's not for the max!

What contract? For the MLE?

Finally, you never know who's going to have cap space

That is the point and that is why Marion will look for the safer way or insurance for getting his money.

You're the one claiming gloom and doom if we don't trade him!

I don't want what happen with Chicago with Deng and Gordon which affect their season. Deng and Gordon did not do an Artest or Rider but the results are evident.

Marion was not happy playing for the Suns last season because he did not get the extension but he still plays well. There is a difference then with the Suns and now with the Heat. With Phoenix last year, he still has this year off-season to get an extension while with the Heat he only has before the start of '08-'09 season to get his extension, otherwise he will wait for next year to be resign as a free agent which may result to ending for less money if Miami opt for someone like Boozer or Brand.

I have, you just don't care to listen.

Its you, not me.

You always think that I hate Marion and I want to trade him. My point is very simple, give him a reasonable contract this off-season or if he ask a lot, trade him that will not affect our cap space next year.

Peter Vecsey said that the Suns was giving him a 3-year extension last year that starts with $15m but he wants it at $17m. Now that he knows that if Riley did not give him the extension and stays with the Heat, he might not get at leasat $10m then will probabaly agree to a 3-year thats starts with $12m than losing more. If the Heat refuse to give him the money then its clear Miami is looking for the cap space. Marion will think that Miami willl not resign him and lose lots of money.

I understand that players should honor their contract and be Professional but athletes today are about money and selfish.

[BBallFreak]

I don't know what else to say, nor do I personally care to continue. We need to agree to disagree and leave it at that. You're clearly not going to convince me that Marion is going to be the ruination of this team, nor am I going to convince you that cap space is the best route for this team. Fine. You keep agreeing to trades that move him for garbage, and I'll keep rejecting them. At least we can agree that moving he and Blount for a core player while not affecting our cap space is a smart maneuver...

[Hoops23]

For me its simple.

Trade Marion or give him an extension.
Since I believe he will ask a big money and the Heat are looking for the '09 cap space, a trade is a big possibility.

I dont like keeping Marion with the team unsigned because of the affect with the team. Motivation and being unhappy will be an issue. Thats all.

[BBallFreak]

For me its simple.

Trade Marion or give him an extension.
Since I believe he will ask a big money and the Heat are looking for the '09 cap space, a trade is a big possibility.

I dont like keeping Marion with the team unsigned because of the affect with the team. Motivation and being unhappy will be an issue. Thats all.

You have the right to that opinion, but you have to understand that it's an opinion. You could just as easily be wrong.

[Flash3]

I'm not sold on Marion as one of our core players. We've yet to see him alongside Wade for more than just a few games, but I'm still not sold on him, especially the $$$ we're going to have to cough up to him.

[MartyConlonJr]

If we were able to find somebody to take on the last year of Banks' deal, we would have a ton of cap room even after resigning Wade. We could use that cap room on our post presence (Bosh), then use Haslem's bird rights to resign him once the cap space is used up. Fill out the roster with a defensive minded center and a quality backup combo guard and we are stacked:

Rose
Wade/Cook
Marion/Wright
Haslem
Bosh

You can't use Haslem's bird rights like that. You either renounce him to clear up space, or hold on to his bird rights which would take up max contract space until signed.

Rose will be at aroung 5 mill, Haslem's rights at 13 mill, Wade at around 18 mill, Marion at probably 15 mill, Wright at maybe 3 mill, Cook around 2 mill. That's 56 mill then 5 roster spots for a total of another 2 or 3 mill, putting you at the salary cap and leaving you with MLE. You can't do what you are proposing.

[Flash4thewin]

Lets say "if" the Heat decide to get rid of Marion when does he have the most value in a trade considering we dont/wont take back longer salary.

Do you hypothetically trade him for expiring + young player/Lottery pick or do you wait until the trade deadline but risk Marion getting exposed since his numbers have been on a constant decline.