2025-26 Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 2.0

[twix2500]

GSW scheme is based and built around Steph and Klay. Bogut and Green are complementary role players who were not going to take many fga and we're elite passers and screen setters. This is why David Lee was replaced by Green. Opponents had to adjust to stop Curry and Klay. Are we working building around Bam and Ware or Herro and Powell?

Herro and Powell are NOT prime Curry and Klay. So obviously the current roster needs to get more out of the group as a whole. I don't know why everything has to be so binary. Can you elaborate on that impulse?

History has shown that, at most, two players will carry the burden of the whole team on both sides of the ball. Regardless of whether a team is advertised as having a Big Three, the third player must regulate themselves as a role player with the potential to step up at times, at best, or be a sixth man. Examples include Jordan, Pippen, Rodman (role player), and Kukoc (sixth man), or Kobe, Shaq, Glen Rice (role player), and a team of role players; or LeBron, Wade, Bosh (role player), Allen (sixth man); or Duncan, Parker, and Ginóbili (sixth man). Teams and systems are built around two players.

More so today than in the past, because coaches now use systems. Gone are the days when you had a coach like Pat Riley, who continuously called plays from the sideline depending on whom he wanted to get the ball, and that is why he valued veterans so much—because he wanted players who could run a play drawn up from scratch without practice. During those days, teams practiced 100 times more, which is why you heard stories of how big playbooks were back in the day. Now you have systems that coaches implement with little practice time. When you coach, you have to, in a short period of time, get players to complement the one or two core players on the court. The playbook is not huge anymore, its narrowed down with less versatility. On offense, you want the ball to swing to your core offensive players; on defense, you want to force opponents to swing the ball toward your best defenders. You want your best players to have the most influence.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Side note, loved seeing OKC lose last night on 2 blatant missed calls that should’ve went in their favor and then watching them walk back to the tunnel crying about getting screwed over by the refs. Rubs me the wrong way watching them get away with murder game after game and disguising it as good scrappy defense so was glad to see them get screwed over.

[SA37]

Legitimately asking anyone on the board: has a team ever found real success in the modern NBA relying on a 3-guard starting lineup?

I feel like it's only really been in small spurts as a change up where it has been fruitful.

The problem you'll run into is defining "guard".

OKC is killing everyone with SGA, Dort and Wallace. In general, OKC's lineup is basically 4 guards since no one is taller than 6'6 except Hartenstein, Jaylin Williams, or Chet.

Boston is having a heck of a season right now. They literally have THE WORST frontcourt on paper that I can remember and they're starting Pritchard, White (who is having a brutal season shooting the ball), and Jaylen Brown and playing them big minutes.

Cleveland had a monster season last year and were playing Garland, Mitchell, and Strus.

A lot of those are situational though, OKC at full strength runs SGA, Dort, and Williams on the perimeter next to Chet/Hartenstein. That’s good size and athleticism on the perimeter and everyone on their team plays good defense, the never have a weak link out there. Plus it helps they are allowed to play by a different set of rules. Dort also plays bigger than he is.

Strus and White play bigger than they are too, Brown to me is a SF. He’s only a guard when they want to tinker around the end of season rewards and find a way to gift more to the Celtics players. White might be the 2nd best shot blocking guard ever behind our goat, or at least up there.

Our 3 guard lineup is heavily lacking in defense and size compared to those units (to a lesser extent with Cleveland).

The question posed wasn't style of play, but of 3-guard lineups that were successful, and I gave examples of several teams that are starting them and are generally comparable to Miami's 3 guards: Mitchell 6', Powell 6'3 and Herro 6'5.

OKC just played ~18 games without Williams and they played Dort 6'3, Wallace 6'3, and SGA 6'6 and they lost a single game. (Ajay Mitchell started a few games and he is 6'4).

Brown 6'6 has been a SG forever because Tatum has been Boston's SF. Pritchard is probably 5'11 and Derrick White is 6'3. Garland and Mitchell are 6'1 and Strus is 6'5.

[greg4012]

The problem you'll run into is defining "guard".

OKC is killing everyone with SGA, Dort and Wallace. In general, OKC's lineup is basically 4 guards since no one is taller than 6'6 except Hartenstein, Jaylin Williams, or Chet.

Boston is having a heck of a season right now. They literally have THE WORST frontcourt on paper that I can remember and they're starting Pritchard, White (who is having a brutal season shooting the ball), and Jaylen Brown and playing them big minutes.

Cleveland had a monster season last year and were playing Garland, Mitchell, and Strus.

A lot of those are situational though, OKC at full strength runs SGA, Dort, and Williams on the perimeter next to Chet/Hartenstein. That’s good size and athleticism on the perimeter and everyone on their team plays good defense, the never have a weak link out there. Plus it helps they are allowed to play by a different set of rules. Dort also plays bigger than he is.

Strus and White play bigger than they are too, Brown to me is a SF. He’s only a guard when they want to tinker around the end of season rewards and find a way to gift more to the Celtics players. White might be the 2nd best shot blocking guard ever behind our goat, or at least up there.

Our 3 guard lineup is heavily lacking in defense and size compared to those units (to a lesser extent with Cleveland).

The question posed wasn't style of play, but of 3-guard lineups that were successful, and I gave examples of several teams that are starting them and are generally comparable to Miami's 3 guards: Mitchell 6', Powell 6'3 and Herro 6'5.

OKC just played ~18 games without Williams and they played Dort 6'3, Wallace 6'3, and SGA 6'6 and they lost a single game. (Ajay Mitchell started a few games and he is 6'4).

Brown 6'6 has been a SG forever because Tatum has been Boston's SF. Pritchard is probably 5'11 and Derrick White is 6'3. Garland and Mitchell are 6'1 and Strus is 6'5.

Trying to figure out if this is trolling or semantics for the sake of semantics.

Do you actually think these are parallels?

Lu Dort has a 6'8 wingspan and weighs over 220 pounds. He's the PJ Tucker of SFs. For his career, he has logged 65% of his minutes at forward according to BBRef and obviously proven to be able to defend 1-4 generally well. SF is his best defensive position.

SGA is literally Wiggins size (Miami's PF).

Cason Wallace is the only guard in their lineup that doesn't have some legit forward size and he has a 6'8.5 wingspan and is a defense-first player that can easily defend PG and SG.

Jaylen Brown literally entered the NBA without a handle and playing exclusively forward. He's 6'6 with a 7' wingspan and weighs over 220 pounds. Literally the prototype physical NBA wing frame. According to BBref he's played the majority of his minutes at Forward throughout his whole career. Derrick White is SG-sized but obviously can defend up as he is one of the best wing defenders in the NBA.

Garland and Mitchell is actually getting close to this parallel and it would make sense as a comp if CLE was trotting out Garland and Mitchell with Ty Jerome as their base lineup. Max Strus is a pure forward with forward size that has logged 76% of his NBA minutes between SF and PF according to BBrf.

I can't believe I just spent time responding to this silliness.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The problem you'll run into is defining "guard".

OKC is killing everyone with SGA, Dort and Wallace. In general, OKC's lineup is basically 4 guards since no one is taller than 6'6 except Hartenstein, Jaylin Williams, or Chet.

Boston is having a heck of a season right now. They literally have THE WORST frontcourt on paper that I can remember and they're starting Pritchard, White (who is having a brutal season shooting the ball), and Jaylen Brown and playing them big minutes.

Cleveland had a monster season last year and were playing Garland, Mitchell, and Strus.

A lot of those are situational though, OKC at full strength runs SGA, Dort, and Williams on the perimeter next to Chet/Hartenstein. That’s good size and athleticism on the perimeter and everyone on their team plays good defense, the never have a weak link out there. Plus it helps they are allowed to play by a different set of rules. Dort also plays bigger than he is.

Strus and White play bigger than they are too, Brown to me is a SF. He’s only a guard when they want to tinker around the end of season rewards and find a way to gift more to the Celtics players. White might be the 2nd best shot blocking guard ever behind our goat, or at least up there.

Our 3 guard lineup is heavily lacking in defense and size compared to those units (to a lesser extent with Cleveland).

The question posed wasn't style of play, but of 3-guard lineups that were successful, and I gave examples of several teams that are starting them and are generally comparable to Miami's 3 guards: Mitchell 6', Powell 6'3 and Herro 6'5.

OKC just played ~18 games without Williams and they played Dort 6'3, Wallace 6'3, and SGA 6'6 and they lost a single game. (Ajay Mitchell started a few games and he is 6'4).

Brown 6'6 has been a SG forever because Tatum has been Boston's SF. Pritchard is probably 5'11 and Derrick White is 6'3. Garland and Mitchell are 6'1 and Strus is 6'5.

I mean yeah if you want to ignore literally everything outside of height then sure lol

[SA37]

A lot of those are situational though, OKC at full strength runs SGA, Dort, and Williams on the perimeter next to Chet/Hartenstein. That’s good size and athleticism on the perimeter and everyone on their team plays good defense, the never have a weak link out there. Plus it helps they are allowed to play by a different set of rules. Dort also plays bigger than he is.

Strus and White play bigger than they are too, Brown to me is a SF. He’s only a guard when they want to tinker around the end of season rewards and find a way to gift more to the Celtics players. White might be the 2nd best shot blocking guard ever behind our goat, or at least up there.

Our 3 guard lineup is heavily lacking in defense and size compared to those units (to a lesser extent with Cleveland).

The question posed wasn't style of play, but of 3-guard lineups that were successful, and I gave examples of several teams that are starting them and are generally comparable to Miami's 3 guards: Mitchell 6', Powell 6'3 and Herro 6'5.

OKC just played ~18 games without Williams and they played Dort 6'3, Wallace 6'3, and SGA 6'6 and they lost a single game. (Ajay Mitchell started a few games and he is 6'4).

Brown 6'6 has been a SG forever because Tatum has been Boston's SF. Pritchard is probably 5'11 and Derrick White is 6'3. Garland and Mitchell are 6'1 and Strus is 6'5.

Trying to figure out if this is trolling or semantics for the sake of semantics.

Do you actually think these are parallels?

Lu Dort has a 6'8 wingspan and weighs over 220 pounds. He's the PJ Tucker of SFs. For his career, he has logged 65% of his minutes at forward according to BBRef and obviously proven to be able to defend 1-4 generally well. SF is his best defensive position.

SGA is literally Wiggins size (Miami's PF).

Cason Wallace is the only guard in their lineup that doesn't have some legit forward size and he has a 6'8.5 wingspan and is a defense-first player that can easily defend PG and SG.

Jaylen Brown literally entered the NBA without a handle and playing exclusively forward. He's 6'6 with a 7' wingspan and weighs over 220 pounds. Literally the prototype physical NBA wing frame. According to BBref he's played the majority of his minutes at Forward throughout his whole career. Derrick White is SG-sized but obviously can defend up as he is one of the best wing defenders in the NBA.

Garland and Mitchell is actually getting close to this parallel and it would make sense as a comp if CLE was trotting out Garland and Mitchell with Ty Jerome as their base lineup. Max Strus is a pure forward with forward size that has logged 76% of his NBA minutes between SF and PF according to BBrf.

I can't believe I just spent time responding to this silliness.

You didn't get the answer you were fishing for, which is something that would validate "I don't like Miami's 3 guard lineup with Herro, Mitchell, and Powell", and now you are trying to contort your way into excluding all these players as guards. What's next, you're going to tell me Caruso is a center because he was guarding Wembanyama yesterday?

As I said in my opening reply to you, defining "guard" would be the problem.

Max Strus is 6'5 215. You know who else was 6'5 ~215? Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, who were SGs their entire careers.

Traditionally, this is what NBA standards were (the smaller measure is prob real heights vs the larger measure which is the NBA's inflated heights):

PG 6'1-6'3
SG 6'4-6'6
SF 6'6-6'8
PF 6'8-6'10
C 6'10-7'

Many NBA teams are playing "small ball" lineups by comparison. Skillsets have changed, NBA rules have changed, and styles of play have changed. Post-up basketball has largely died in favor of people looking for the next Grant Hill, Tracey McGrady, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George (and their failed versions, like Darius Miles, Jonathan Bender, KZ Okpala, Cam Reddish, Justise Winslow...etc)

[SA37]

Spoiler:

A lot of those are situational though, OKC at full strength runs SGA, Dort, and Williams on the perimeter next to Chet/Hartenstein. That’s good size and athleticism on the perimeter and everyone on their team plays good defense, the never have a weak link out there. Plus it helps they are allowed to play by a different set of rules. Dort also plays bigger than he is.

Strus and White play bigger than they are too, Brown to me is a SF. He’s only a guard when they want to tinker around the end of season rewards and find a way to gift more to the Celtics players. White might be the 2nd best shot blocking guard ever behind our goat, or at least up there.

Our 3 guard lineup is heavily lacking in defense and size compared to those units (to a lesser extent with Cleveland).

The question posed wasn't style of play, but of 3-guard lineups that were successful, and I gave examples of several teams that are starting them and are generally comparable to Miami's 3 guards: Mitchell 6', Powell 6'3 and Herro 6'5.

OKC just played ~18 games without Williams and they played Dort 6'3, Wallace 6'3, and SGA 6'6 and they lost a single game. (Ajay Mitchell started a few games and he is 6'4).

Brown 6'6 has been a SG forever because Tatum has been Boston's SF. Pritchard is probably 5'11 and Derrick White is 6'3. Garland and Mitchell are 6'1 and Strus is 6'5.

I mean yeah if you want to ignore literally everything outside of height then sure lol

So the question was, are there teams successfully playing a 3-guard lineup. The answer is unequivocally yes.

The question you seem to want to answer is, can Miami successfully play a 3-guard lineup given its roster? OR can a 3-guard lineup with Mitchell, Herro, Powell be successful?

And the answer there is, we don't know.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

You guys are making it way more complicated than it has to be by using blanket terms like guard and treating it like all guards are the same thing when clearly they’re not.

Tyler Herro is a guard that can only guard 1/2 and is preferably put on the weaker matchup, or possibly the 3 if they are really weak.

Davion Mitchell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and can be put on the stronger matchup but can’t guard 2’s with above average height/length.

Norman Powell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and is average enough you can put him on the stronger or weaker matchup depending on lineup. But you don’t want him guarding 3’s unless they are no threat, like Tyler.

What all 3 guys have in common is none of them should be guarding any respectable 3, and 2 of them are either better on point guards or just a weak defender in general.

[Voltron914]

You guys are making it way more complicated than it has to be by using blanket terms like guard and treating it like all guards are the same thing when clearly they’re not.

Tyler Herro is a guard that can only guard 1/2 and is preferably put on the weaker matchup, or possibly the 3 if they are really weak.

Davion Mitchell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and can be put on the stronger matchup but can’t guard 2’s with above average height/length.

Norman Powell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and is average enough you can put him on the stronger or weaker matchup depending on lineup. But you don’t want him guarding 3’s unless they are no threat, like Tyler.

What all 3 guys have in common is none of them should be guarding any respectable 3, and 2 of them are either better on point guards or just a weak defender in general.

good point. this is why i hope someone is pounding in Spo's head to start wiggins bam and ware so u can have wiggs and bam exclusively on the perimeter and not accepting the switch on to Herro or Norm and let ware protect the paint. i really hope after this long break we dont come out doing the same thing

[twix2500]

You guys are making it way more complicated than it has to be by using blanket terms like guard and treating it like all guards are the same thing when clearly they’re not.

Tyler Herro is a guard that can only guard 1/2 and is preferably put on the weaker matchup, or possibly the 3 if they are really weak.

Davion Mitchell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and can be put on the stronger matchup but can’t guard 2’s with above average height/length.

Norman Powell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and is average enough you can put him on the stronger or weaker matchup depending on lineup. But you don’t want him guarding 3’s unless they are no threat, like Tyler.

What all 3 guys have in common is none of them should be guarding any respectable 3, and 2 of them are either better on point guards or just a weak defender in general.

good point. this is why i hope someone is pounding in Spo's head to start wiggins bam and ware so u can have wiggs and bam exclusively on the perimeter and not accepting the switch on to Herro or Norm and let ware protect the paint. i really hope after this long break we dont come out doing the same thing

In order for a Herro, Powell, Wiggins, Bam and Ware as starters to work what are the two most important things that need to change?

[twix2500]

You guys are making it way more complicated than it has to be by using blanket terms like guard and treating it like all guards are the same thing when clearly they’re not.

Tyler Herro is a guard that can only guard 1/2 and is preferably put on the weaker matchup, or possibly the 3 if they are really weak.

Davion Mitchell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and can be put on the stronger matchup but can’t guard 2’s with above average height/length.

Norman Powell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and is average enough you can put him on the stronger or weaker matchup depending on lineup. But you don’t want him guarding 3’s unless they are no threat, like Tyler.

What all 3 guys have in common is none of them should be guarding any respectable 3, and 2 of them are either better on point guards or just a weak defender in general.

One of the reasons I am all in on starting Larsson instead of Mitchell is that I am sacrificing a dominant ball handler for bigger size, but I keep the speed. One thing that is noticeable is that Powell and Herro have rarely brought the ball up. I am kind of surprised and wonder if there's an underlying reason for it.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

You guys are making it way more complicated than it has to be by using blanket terms like guard and treating it like all guards are the same thing when clearly they’re not.

Tyler Herro is a guard that can only guard 1/2 and is preferably put on the weaker matchup, or possibly the 3 if they are really weak.

Davion Mitchell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and can be put on the stronger matchup but can’t guard 2’s with above average height/length.

Norman Powell is a guard that can only guard 1/2, and is average enough you can put him on the stronger or weaker matchup depending on lineup. But you don’t want him guarding 3’s unless they are no threat, like Tyler.

What all 3 guys have in common is none of them should be guarding any respectable 3, and 2 of them are either better on point guards or just a weak defender in general.

One of the reasons I am all in on starting Larsson instead of Mitchell is that I am sacrificing a dominant ball handler for bigger size, but I keep the speed. One thing that is noticeable is that Powell and Herro have rarely brought the ball up. I am kind of surprised and wonder if there's an underlying reason for it.

I don’t know about starting Pelle, but I was thinking about it and I really like the idea of having Pelle be the backup 2, in general I like having guys play defense at a position they can switch up or down a matchup and still do ok.

Depth chart something like

Herro/Mitchell/Smith
Powell/Larsson
Wiggins/Jaquez/Fontecchio
Bam/Jaquez/Jovic
Ware/Bam

And then ideally you find a decent backup 4/5 to reduce Jaime’s minutes at the 4. This ensures everyone stays at a position they can either excel at defensively or at least not be a massive liability.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Last thing about DPOY, it’s funny to see Chet leading the race right now after watching him be too scared to guard Wemby last night and had Caruso doing it. Checked the numbers today and he guarded Wemby for a total of 46 seconds lol, not even the best defender on his team.