#63: Heat vs Bulls - Mar 8th at 8 pm ET

[oreon]

Yeah thats an elite player, clearly we dont have that type of player. We dont have the assets to get that type of player either since it would become a bidding war and we just dont have that ammo. So do we continue as is or do a rebuild. We need to remember Pat will not tolerate a rebuild at this stage with his age and legacy at play. Does Mickey ok a rebuilding period with no playoff money? These are all hard questions unfortunately.

I dont understand how the Hawks are ahead of us now, them making the playoffs will just have them double down on keeping Trae. Ideally if we want Trae we need them to be in the lottery and get a top 3 pick, that way they can get a Trae replacement and then be open to trading him for our lottery pick and Ware. Orlando is another team that should have eyes on Trae. Just such a self inflicted season. Someone in the front office needs to fall on the sword.

It's Pat obviously. But not for this season. This HAPPENS to all teams. Eventually you will need to rebuild. It should be for not blowing this in the summer. Philly was there with cap space, they wanted Butler. We could have gotten 2 or 3 1st round picks. And those Philly picks are looking juicy right now with the Embiid situation. Smart FO get ahead of rebuild. OKC did with PG13, Boston when they traded their big 3. But Pat is too freakin stubborn to take step back.
It's worse than the 30-11 season that they refused to tank and went ahead to pay role players.

Can’t even tank next year cause you risk giving up a high end lottery pick to OKC if we slip up next year. You trade Bam you guarantee a lottery pick to OKC plain and simple. We’ll continue with Bam and Herro for atleast until 2026.

If you do a Bam trade you get picks + pick swaps or 2nd rounders. Then you swap for your pick back. We would need to sweeten the pot for OKC by adding the swaps/2nd rounders you got. And that makes more sense for them. They don't have the roster spots to add players next season. They get to defer the pick and keep it an asset. It would be a win win for both sides

[powerball1373]

If you get Trae, you are going to have to pay him. So the question is can Bam + Trae making a combined 100 mill going forward compete with Celtics or Cavs for the next 5 years.

The answer is pretty easy, NO. And I doubt anyone would disagree. So you don't make that trade

Yup this is the true realization. Better off continuing to draft cheap talent and maybe make a few moves that don’t cost us an arm and leg that adds more talent.

Panda, do you think the extra year should've been given to Butler?

I’m not sure, but I trust Jimmy to lead both Herro and Bam if everyone is motivated and fully locked in.

Or has the bridge already been burned since he didn’t even want the extension here?

I still don't think the Heat should have paid him. Imo, we reached our ceiling with Jimmy as the #1 here. He looks great on the Warriors right now because he's the clear #2.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

You just gotta ignore when he starts the Bam praising and Herro bashing. It's played out. I don't think anyone else really entertains that anymore. He's been waiting for Herro to struggle this season. He's happy when he struggles. On the other hand there is ALWAYS an excuse for Bam.

His other takes are good though. Just ignore those 2 topics when he starts and you'll be fine.

I didn’t even mention Bam until he did though is the thing

But it’s funny, I get labeled as a Bam stan but when Herro gets bashed there’s a swarm who does the same thing I do.

I wasn’t even talking player X vs Y, I was just giving insight on who Tyler is and always has been as a player. I do not enjoy players on my team playing bad, at all. And I actually love watching Herro when he catches fire (if it leads to a win)

You didn’t mention Bam until I did? Come on, man. That’s like saying “I wasn’t talking about my favorite player—I was just shifting the blame off him.”

And let’s not act like you aren’t front and center with a “just giving insight” post every time Herro has a bad game, but when Bam struggles? Suddenly, it’s “the team isn’t using him right” or “he’s doing things that don’t show up in the box score.”

Also, you “love” watching Herro when he catches fire... if it leads to a win? Bruh, so all he has to do is put up Steph Curry numbers in a win? That's all? Just say you don’t mess with him. We all see it. And honestly, if you just owned it instead of running this “objective analyst” act, people might actually respect it. But this passive-aggressive ish? Corny.

And just to be clear—I’m not even against Bam, not even a little bit. I don’t want to turn this into some Herro vs. Bam thing because I’m a fan of both. But the only reason I (and others) push back on Bam’s deficiencies in response to some of your posts is to show how it sounds when the criticism is that one-sided. If you applied the same energy both ways, this wouldn’t even be a conversation.

Herros just not very good, it seemed he was taking a leap to start the season but that is looking more and more like a hot streak. I’ve never been high on him, I’m not even pretending to be but I was excited at the thought of him taking a leap because he’s on my favorite team, unfortunately he’s just the same player he’s always been, at least he’s able to stay healthy now though I guess. Nothing passive aggressive about it and I’m not pretending anything.

No he doesn’t have to put up Steph numbers but he does have to be efficient, especially when he’s only paid to score and plays little to no defense, that’s just the reality of it and yes I was harping on him tonight because he was making several horrible decisions throughout the course of the game and very costly ones with the game on the line.

I don’t think Bam played great tonight either but I don’t think he was making horrible decision after horrible decision, especially down the stretch.

Herro is to you what Bam is to me, when I criticize Herro you’re always right there to defend (with others)

[MettaWorldPanda]

If we tank this year it puts next year in a must win situation next year. Problem is we also need the young talent the draft brings so it’s a tough spot to be in. We’ll have tradeable expiring contracts but teams are going to want assets. We need to keep the short teem assets and try and trade 2029 and 2031 for upgrades.

[marson]

Yup this is the true realization. Better off continuing to draft cheap talent and maybe make a few moves that don’t cost us an arm and leg that adds more talent.

Panda, do you think the extra year should've been given to Butler?

I’m not sure, but I trust Jimmy to lead both Herro and Bam if everyone is motivated and fully locked in.

Or has the bridge already been burned since he didn’t even want the extension here?

I still don't think the Heat should have paid him. Imo, we reached our ceiling with Jimmy as the #1 here. He looks great on the Warriors right now because he's the clear #2.

It's crazy that we haven't had a single playoff run with all three players healthy since the Bubble, especially considering we're in the East, it's an easier path to finals compared to West.

All I'm saying is, if Jimmy manages to get the Warriors to the finals, I'm going to be really mad at this front office.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

People saying we're too bad to trade assets for a guy like KD or Young. I just want to say a guy like young helps with these blown leads by helping the offense flow. Even if he isn't hitting you have to look out for those easy Bam and Ware lobs he'd throw, or passes to guys cutting etc. Hitting 3pt shooters in their spots. So yes I'm still for trading for Young. I just hate how inefficient he is offensively at times in his own.

If you get Trae, you are going to have to pay him. So the question is can Bam + Trae making a combined 100 mill going forward compete with Celtics or Cavs for the next 5 years.

The answer is pretty easy, NO. And I doubt anyone would disagree. So you don't make that trade

Yup this is the true realization. Better off continuing to draft cheap talent and maybe make a few moves that don’t cost us an arm and leg that adds more talent.

I gotta disagree here, we have enough to build a roster better than those we had when we were making deep playoff runs

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Can always send Bam to OKC, he can win championships while we get our pick back plus several others

[powerball1373]

I didn’t even mention Bam until he did though is the thing

But it’s funny, I get labeled as a Bam stan but when Herro gets bashed there’s a swarm who does the same thing I do.

I wasn’t even talking player X vs Y, I was just giving insight on who Tyler is and always has been as a player. I do not enjoy players on my team playing bad, at all. And I actually love watching Herro when he catches fire (if it leads to a win)

You didn’t mention Bam until I did? Come on, man. That’s like saying “I wasn’t talking about my favorite player—I was just shifting the blame off him.”

And let’s not act like you aren’t front and center with a “just giving insight” post every time Herro has a bad game, but when Bam struggles? Suddenly, it’s “the team isn’t using him right” or “he’s doing things that don’t show up in the box score.”

Also, you “love” watching Herro when he catches fire... if it leads to a win? Bruh, so all he has to do is put up Steph Curry numbers in a win? That's all? Just say you don’t mess with him. We all see it. And honestly, if you just owned it instead of running this “objective analyst” act, people might actually respect it. But this passive-aggressive ish? Corny.

And just to be clear—I’m not even against Bam, not even a little bit. I don’t want to turn this into some Herro vs. Bam thing because I’m a fan of both. But the only reason I (and others) push back on Bam’s deficiencies in response to some of your posts is to show how it sounds when the criticism is that one-sided. If you applied the same energy both ways, this wouldn’t even be a conversation.

Herros just not very good, it seemed he was taking a leap to start the season but that is looking more and more like a hot streak. I’ve never been high on him, I’m not even pretending to be but I was excited at the thought of him taking a leap because he’s on my favorite team, unfortunately he’s just the same player he’s always been, at least he’s able to stay healthy now though I guess. Nothing passive aggressive about it and I’m not pretending anything.

No he doesn’t have to put up Steph numbers but he does have to be efficient, especially when he’s only paid to score and plays little to no defense, that’s just the reality of it and yes I was harping on him tonight because he was making several horrible decisions throughout the course of the game and very costly ones with the game on the line.

I don’t think Bam played great tonight either but I don’t think he was making horrible decision after horrible decision, especially down the stretch.

Herro is to you what Bam is to me, when I criticize Herro you’re always right there to defend (with others)

So, after all that, you finally admit you’ve never been high on Herro and aren’t pretending otherwise. Cool, glad we got that established. But that kinda makes your whole “I don’t enjoy players on my team playing bad” defense sound weak, doesn’t it? Because let’s be real—you don’t just criticize Herro when he plays badly, you actively look for ways to downplay him even when he plays well.

And this “he doesn’t have to put up Steph numbers, but he has to be efficient” take is hilarious. Bam has had plenty of inefficient games, especially when he settles for jumpers instead of attacking, but I don’t see you harping on those the way you do with Herro. In fact, you just said Bam didn’t play great tonight, but your whole takeaway was ‘at least he wasn’t making horrible decisions.’ That’s the perfect example of the double standard.

Also, “Herro is to you what Bam is to me”—nah, that’s not it. I don’t mind criticism when it’s fair. But when you constantly move the goalposts and only hold one player accountable while making excuses for another, people are gonna push back. And let’s be honest, the reason I (and others) point it out is because if we didn’t, you’d be acting like Bam is flawless and Herro is some unplayable liability.

At the end of the day, nobody is saying Herro is a superstar. But if you’re gonna keep nitpicking every little thing he does while treating Bam with kid gloves, don’t be surprised when people start exposing the bias.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Panda, do you think the extra year should've been given to Butler?

I’m not sure, but I trust Jimmy to lead both Herro and Bam if everyone is motivated and fully locked in.

Or has the bridge already been burned since he didn’t even want the extension here?

I still don't think the Heat should have paid him. Imo, we reached our ceiling with Jimmy as the #1 here. He looks great on the Warriors right now because he's the clear #2.

It's crazy that we haven't had a single playoff run with all three players healthy since the Bubble, especially considering we're in the East, it's an easier path to finals compared to West.

All I'm saying is, if Jimmy manages to get the Warriors to the finals, I'm going to be really mad at this front office.

To answer your Butler question it was probably time to move on. Even with Butler this team was nothing more then a 6th seed with plenty of holes and if he was paid it’s purgatory with no chance at seeing a different look. Between Rozier 26, Duncan 19, and Anderson 9, Love 3.8, and Highsmith 5 that’s about 63 million dollars that we will be able to spend in the near future that’s under the tax line. Not saying we should just throw 50-60 million of that into one player though. Team needs 3 useful players with that.

[Crazy-Canuck]

New to the team, but just based on the last 20ish games.

Starters

Bam, wiggins, and ware are a contending frontcourt. The fit is great with no overlap. They just need minutes with each other. And spo needs to trust ware a little more in important minutes, but it will come.

The back court seems like the biggest problem for me. Herro is alot like Poole, and I've seen poole alot. Flashes of greatness mixed in with alot of poor iq play, especially when it comes to game management. His defense is actually worse than Poole's. He's very risk heavy on both sides of the ball.

Mitchell is great on ball and weak off the ball. He plays within the flow early, but shrinks in the 4th and teams know it.

Bench

Jovic, Duncan, highsmith, and slomo are good rotation pieces. The only issue is the salary of Duncan and rozier, that's 40M for 20M production combined.

4th quarters

They need to dig into defense more. You can't play 3 of herro, rozier, Duncan, nd Mitchell. That's 4 poor offball/help defenders where it's easy for teams to just move the ball to catch someone sleeping/overhelping/not helping.

Offense

It's stagnant. I love bam and wiggins as secondary release valves. They will always give you something. Wiggins can iso, but shouldn't be the guy relied on to iso in close games. He's better attacking mismatches.

Mitchell is a non factor.

Herro wants to be THE hero. He's a volume shot maker in the 4th.

The team can needs a pg who can manage the offense. That isn't Mitchell. You need a trae or cp3 type if you are all in on herro.

Herro nd Spo seem like the biggest issues in close games.

Herro needs 4 help defenders around him if you close with him. A guy like steph has the rep of a bad defender but he's actually a smart off ball defender. And it wasn't guys like klay or poole that won gsw their last chip, it was guys like dray, wiggins, opj, and gp2.

[BadMofoPimp]

Riley would never trade away Bam. He is a Heat lifer.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Riley would never trade away Bam. He is a Heat lifer.

Riley isn't going to be with the Heat much longer.

[BadMofoPimp]

Riley would never trade away Bam. He is a Heat lifer.

Riley isn't going to be with the Heat much longer.

Whomever replaces Riley won't trade Bam either. Bam is a Heat lifer.

[marson]

Riley would never trade away Bam. He is a Heat lifer.

It's fine if he's okay with breaking records here instead of winning a ring. The 'Heat lifer' mantra has been used for players like Wade, Dragic, and Butler, but the only one who truly embodied it was UD, who accepted being paid peanuts by Riley.

[Crazy-Canuck]

It would be dumb to trade bam. 2 way players are worth their weight in gold in this league. Those are the types you need to win in the playoffs.

[marson]

It would be dumb to trade bam. 2 way players are worth their weight in gold in this league. Those are the types you need to win in the playoffs.

Treadmill team, with Bam and Herro, doesn't have enough assets to acquire a superstar. If the front office decides to fully tank, Bam would likely bring back the biggest return for the Heat.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bam requests a trade sooner rather than later. His frustration seems to be growing each year, and he even called out Spo earlier this season that he needs to step up.

[powerball1373]

New to the team, but just based on the last 20ish games.

Starters

Bam, wiggins, and ware are a contending frontcourt. The fit is great with no overlap. They just need minutes with each other. And spo needs to trust ware a little more in important minutes, but it will come.

The back court seems like the biggest problem for me. Herro is alot like Poole, and I've seen poole alot. Flashes of greatness mixed in with alot of poor iq play, especially when it comes to game management. His defense is actually worse than Poole's. He's very risk heavy on both sides of the ball.

Mitchell is great on ball and weak off the ball. He plays within the flow early, but shrinks in the 4th and teams know it.

Bench

Jovic, Duncan, highsmith, and slomo are good rotation pieces. The only issue is the salary of Duncan and rozier, that's 40M for 20M production combined.

4th quarters

They need to dig into defense more. You can't play 3 of herro, rozier, Duncan, nd Mitchell. That's 4 poor offball/help defenders where it's easy for teams to just move the ball to catch someone sleeping/overhelping/not helping.

Offense

It's stagnant. I love bam and wiggins as secondary release valves. They will always give you something. Wiggins can iso, but shouldn't be the guy relied on to iso in close games. He's better attacking mismatches.

Mitchell is a non factor.

Herro wants to be THE hero. He's a volume shot maker in the 4th.

The team can needs a pg who can manage the offense. That isn't Mitchell. You need a trae or cp3 type if you are all in on herro.

Herro nd Spo seem like the biggest issues in close games.

Herro needs 4 help defenders around him if you close with him. A guy like steph has the rep of a bad defender but he's actually a smart off ball defender. And it wasn't guys like klay or poole that won gsw their last chip, it was guys like dray, wiggins, opj, and gp2.

I get the concerns, but I don’t think the Poole comparison really holds. Poole is shiftier with the ball, but he’s also way more reckless. Herro isn’t exactly the most disciplined either, but he’s a more consistent shooter from deep and in the mid-range, and he rebounds/assists better.

As for the “wants to be THE hero” part—sure, but Miami doesn’t exactly have a ton of other options. With no true lead shot creator, Herro is often the only guy on the floor who can create his own shot (other than Wiggins when healthy). Whether that’s ideal or not is a different discussion, but it’s not like he’s forcing himself into that role—it’s what the team needs from him. And honestly, I’d rather have a player who wants to take big shots than one who’s scared of them.

Defensively, no argument—he’s a liability. But unlike Poole, Herro’s shortcomings aren’t from a lack of effort; they’re more about physical limitations. Curry had similar challenges early in his career before getting stronger, and Herro has put in the work every offseason to improve. He may never be a plus defender, but with added strength and experience, he can at least become less of a liability.

Lastly, I weigh a young player’s highs more than their lows—kind of like a golf handicap. A great performance shows demonstrated ability, meaning it’s something they’re capable of repeating, especially if they’re a hard worker who improves every offseason. So while he still has flaws, I’d rather bet on a guy who's shown flashes of greatness and continues to put in the work than focus too much on his worst moments.

[oreon]

It would be dumb to trade bam. 2 way players are worth their weight in gold in this league. Those are the types you need to win in the playoffs.

OKC did. OKC traded PG13 at 28, the season after he came third in MVP and DPOY voting and made 1st team All NBA. And Bam is a great player but he's a tier or two below prime PG13. But Presti really didn't believe PG13 was a franchise player. You don't franchise players but everybody can be for the right price

[MettaWorldPanda]

It would be dumb to trade bam. 2 way players are worth their weight in gold in this league. Those are the types you need to win in the playoffs.

Exactly. It’s desperate talk to think about trading him. Just have to keep grinding it out and hope we hit on these draft picks and make some smart calculated additions with these expiring’s. Putting the large sum of sunk cost into better use.

[oreon]

It would be dumb to trade bam. 2 way players are worth their weight in gold in this league. Those are the types you need to win in the playoffs.

Exactly. It’s desperate talk to think about trading him. Just have to keep grinding it out and hope we hit on these draft picks and make some smart calculated additions with these expiring’s. Putting the large sum of sunk cost into better use.

It isn't. Bam isn't All nba or mvp level. If you can get a Gobert type deal for him you do it. But it has to be for a haul