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2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#221 » by Hallstar » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:43 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Better playoff performer and on a completely different world playmaking wise

Better playoff performer when? 4 years ago or whatever? He had the chance to show it quite recently. We went up against a team with 30 more wins and the solution is someone that couldn't beat us. Heat fan logic.

Wasn't Ja getting dog walked off the floor before his injury? I hate the hypocrisy.


Booker had Durant and didn't do ****. If Herro had Beal and Durant this board would want him out on the first thing smoking.

But oh it's different because it's another team. They don't have the Heat's elite offensive game planning.


Huh lol?!

When has Herro been even above average in a playoff series since his rookie year? Trae is averaging 26-3-9 for his career in the playoffs, he took a team to the ECF and has never played with a guy who was also a current all star along with him. Herro has never had success as a lead guy and our best playoff runs came mostly with him out with injury or playing a reserve role.

Ja was going up against the best defense in the league who has several elite perimeter defenders and was up 30 when he got injured, they might’ve been able to make things interesting after that. Herro got put in a body bag by Sam Merrill and Max Strus.

Booker I’m not even sure what you’re getting at there but he, like Ja, is a far superior player to Herro.

Lol, I like how the excuses never apply to our players...well except you know who.

Never change bro.

If Booker is a such a better player what exactly is KD supposed to do here?

Make it make sense.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#222 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:44 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:The more i think about it i don’t think Kelel Ware is the right fit next to Bam. It looks decent is spurts but in today’s NBA i don’t see it being a long term answer. We’ve had our best success putting pin ball burly PF’s next to Bam who know how to Spam 3’s. I’m glad Bam has expanded his game but it still seems off as him becoming the sole offensive threat in the front court.


PJ Tucker only averaged 2.7 3PAs per game in his season with Miami (playing 28 mpg). But he was extremely reliable in the corner 3 (optimal place to "hide" a non-dynamic offensive player), he played very smart team basketball and, of course, he was a great switchable defender and people mover. In essence, he was a master of his role, and otherwise supported others in their roles without getting in people's way. Ware is in experimental mode, hence not great at anything and often floating around getting in the way while figuring it out.

Ware needs be schemed to more of his strengths--but he needs more strength to unlock more of it. He needs to be able to become a reliable people mover to earn more reps in on-ball action as a screener/roll man. He needs to turn his flashes from 3 into consistency. He needs to master the team defense. And Spo also needs to implement more defensive schemes that allow him to remain off-ball as a help defender more often.

I'm remiss to give up on a player with so much upside so soon when we went into the season knowing that there was quite a learning curve ahead but there was a lot of upside to mine if Ware could climb the curve.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#223 » by Hallstar » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:45 pm

Ware isn't the problem, in 2 years he'll be 260lbs and can't be moved in the paint. We're not winning anything with a midget front court. You're not beating the Cavs if you can't offer resistance at the rim
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#224 » by Shewasfly » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:46 pm

We are back to putting Bam at C to hide his offense again.

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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#225 » by Hallstar » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:47 pm

Shewasfly wrote:We are back to putting Bam at C to hide his offense again.

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That's all I'm seeing there
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#226 » by SerialChiller » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:47 pm

Tobin's Spo rant was fantastic! It's about time the media started taking notice of his nonsense.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#227 » by twix2500 » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:50 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:The more i think about it i don’t think Kelel Ware is the right fit next to Bam. It looks decent is spurts but in today’s NBA i don’t see it being a long term answer. We’ve had our best success putting pin ball burly PF’s next to Bam who know how to Spam 3’s. I’m glad Bam has expanded his game but it still seems off as him becoming the sole offensive threat in the front court.


I was thinking about this too, Spo almost instantly benched Ware last night and you can tell he was fed up with him. Our deep playoff runs came with Bam at the 5 with a switchable defense and we already know that’s the style of play Spo prefers. It’s unfortunate because he’ll be the only one doing the dirty work but it is what it is. I don’t think Ware is as untouchable as we thought and he may be key in landing a star because of this, you can’t teach motor and his has seemed to be severely lacking since teams started gameplanning for him
He is a rookie. Not sure why this is alarming. Ware exceeded rookie expectation. Everyone in here should be happy he was good enough to start his rookie season. Ware, Larsson and Mitchell was the only positives this year.

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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#228 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:56 pm

Hallstar wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Hallstar wrote:Better playoff performer when? 4 years ago or whatever? He had the chance to show it quite recently. We went up against a team with 30 more wins and the solution is someone that couldn't beat us. Heat fan logic.

Wasn't Ja getting dog walked off the floor before his injury? I hate the hypocrisy.


Booker had Durant and didn't do ****. If Herro had Beal and Durant this board would want him out on the first thing smoking.

But oh it's different because it's another team. They don't have the Heat's elite offensive game planning.


Huh lol?!

When has Herro been even above average in a playoff series since his rookie year? Trae is averaging 26-3-9 for his career in the playoffs, he took a team to the ECF and has never played with a guy who was also a current all star along with him. Herro has never had success as a lead guy and our best playoff runs came mostly with him out with injury or playing a reserve role.

Ja was going up against the best defense in the league who has several elite perimeter defenders and was up 30 when he got injured, they might’ve been able to make things interesting after that. Herro got put in a body bag by Sam Merrill and Max Strus.

Booker I’m not even sure what you’re getting at there but he, like Ja, is a far superior player to Herro.

Lol, I like how the excuses never apply to our players...well except you know who.

Never change bro.

If Booker is a such a better player what exactly is KD supposed to do here?

Make it make sense.


What excuse do you have for Herro getting locked up by Merrill and Strus?

Oh god, you don’t legit think Herro is on Bookers level do you? Please tell me you’re not that far gone.

Here’s some context for you though:

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Roster construction with the addition of Beals overlapping skillset and some injuries destroyed the Suns build. Miami also has a top 10 defense yearly, Suns were bottom 4. These couple things alone would lead to a night and day difference for KDs success here compared to Phoenix.

If you have a stance by all means take it but at least back it with an argument. Considering Booker is a better scorer, playmaker, defender, and playoff performer to Herro I would love to hear how you view him as a better or even same level of player.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#229 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 29, 2025 7:58 pm

Shewasfly wrote:We are back to putting Bam at C to hide his offense again.

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Bam's first full season shooting 3s and he already hit league average marks from 3 for the PF position for this season (with clear progression over the back half). Despite still playing more than half his minutes at center.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#230 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:01 pm

Hide Bams offense while he’s outscored the player you all are stanning for in 7 of their last 9 playoff games while Herro was cast as the first option who we would spam non stop screens for to get open and also assisted on more baskets than him in 7 of the 9 games as well.

As they would say, make it make sense.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#231 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:02 pm

greg4012 wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:We are back to putting Bam at C to hide his offense again.

Image


Bam's first full season shooting 3s and he already hit league average marks from 3 for the PF position for this season (with clear progression over the back half). Despite still playing more than half his minutes at center.


Gotta hide him
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#232 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:03 pm

twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:The more i think about it i don’t think Kelel Ware is the right fit next to Bam. It looks decent is spurts but in today’s NBA i don’t see it being a long term answer. We’ve had our best success putting pin ball burly PF’s next to Bam who know how to Spam 3’s. I’m glad Bam has expanded his game but it still seems off as him becoming the sole offensive threat in the front court.


I was thinking about this too, Spo almost instantly benched Ware last night and you can tell he was fed up with him. Our deep playoff runs came with Bam at the 5 with a switchable defense and we already know that’s the style of play Spo prefers. It’s unfortunate because he’ll be the only one doing the dirty work but it is what it is. I don’t think Ware is as untouchable as we thought and he may be key in landing a star because of this, you can’t teach motor and his has seemed to be severely lacking since teams started gameplanning for him
He is a rookie. Not sure why this is alarming. Ware exceeded rookie expectation. Everyone in here should be happy he was good enough to start his rookie season. Ware, Larsson and Mitchell was the only positives this year.

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I’m not really advocating for it, I just know how Spo is.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#233 » by Shewasfly » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:04 pm

greg4012 wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:We are back to putting Bam at C to hide his offense again.

Image


Bam's first full season shooting 3s and he already hit league average marks from 3 for the PF position for this season (with clear progression over the back half). Despite still playing more than half his minutes at center.

Great, so let's keep him there. At PF. Where he belongs. And let's get a real C, or continue to develop Ware at C, including his long range shooting, so we can have NBA size.

But let's NOT build around and slant our roster/lineup towards someone who we know for sure cannot lead the team. That is Bam. That is also Herro, if it makes you guys feel any better!! Let's get a real #1 and fix our lineup/roster around maximizing HIM.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#234 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:05 pm

twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:The more i think about it i don’t think Kelel Ware is the right fit next to Bam. It looks decent is spurts but in today’s NBA i don’t see it being a long term answer. We’ve had our best success putting pin ball burly PF’s next to Bam who know how to Spam 3’s. I’m glad Bam has expanded his game but it still seems off as him becoming the sole offensive threat in the front court.


I was thinking about this too, Spo almost instantly benched Ware last night and you can tell he was fed up with him. Our deep playoff runs came with Bam at the 5 with a switchable defense and we already know that’s the style of play Spo prefers. It’s unfortunate because he’ll be the only one doing the dirty work but it is what it is. I don’t think Ware is as untouchable as we thought and he may be key in landing a star because of this, you can’t teach motor and his has seemed to be severely lacking since teams started gameplanning for him
He is a rookie. Not sure why this is alarming. Ware exceeded rookie expectation. Everyone in here should be happy he was good enough to start his rookie season. Ware, Larsson and Mitchell was the only positives this year.

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Definitely agreed. Cutting bait too quick is a sure fire way to never get the benefit of developing upside.

For anyone interested, below is my post-draft analysis of Ware's game. I think a lot of it proved to be on point, with Ware exceeding expectations and proving ahead of schedule in numerous ways. A lot of upside to unlock...

greg4012 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:

For any sickos that wanna dive deep


Just finished up watching the 2.5 hours of Ware game tape linked above. Took some scattered notes. Nothing groundbreaking. Ware's length and athleticism are real gamechangers on the court. He's thin and light in the a** and needs to add strength/weight.

When he knows where he's going and what he wants to do, he can do it in an elite way. Oftentimes, he's a step delayed or lost while processing things and that's where the lapses come from. My biggest takeaway is that I did not see any motor or attitude issues. He goes hard and seems to care. This only further validates that he has the "want to" to improve and compete on the court. THat was the hope in seeing the Heat draft him after working him out, interviewing him, and doing their due diligence. I feel even better about his attitude concerns being a bit of a false flag after watching the game tape.

OFFENSE:

- His touch is legit and he looks natural getting up shots on all 3 levels of the court.

- Doesn’t really seem to have any go-to offensive moves--freestyling everything but looks comfortable/natural doing a lot of things on offense. He needs to develop 1 or 2 go-to rhythm moves where when he unexpectedly gets the ball or needs to be the source offense in a bind, he can get into his rhythm shots.

- I’m encouraged by him working as a connective passer. Showed general awareness to move the ball to open guys. I don’t expect him to ever be a creator. He’s a connective passer and a play finisher IMO. Not a blackhole with tunnel vision. Capable passer—showed range in the type of passes he made and difficulty level.

- He would work as a zone buster in middle of court; good at finding cutters; looks natural passing from the perimeter and moving the ball

- His assist numbers probably would have been better if he had capable shooters around him. Indiana's spacing was abysmal. Indiana ranked 265th in the nation in team 3pt% (32%) and 344th in team 3PA per game (out of 351 teams). Ware was constantly dealing with a lot of bodies/traffic around him in the paint on offense.

- Ware is not currently a people mover (boxing out or screening), but he seemed to be a much more willing screener than I was expecting. Between working on his technique and strength, I think he'll be a positive on that front sooner rather than later (just look at Niko's progression on that front in 1 year).

- He needs to "find work" more often when off the ball. A lot of this falls on coaching IMO and my general takeaway overall--Ware needs to have defined specialized roles early on that he can focus on executing with full confidence.

- Most of his turnovers seemed to come when the offense is stuck and he's trying to create offense (no reliable go-to move). I did not see a ton of errant passes/bad decisions. As noted, he dealt with A LOT of traffic/bodies in the paint.

- Some ball security issues arose from Ware not being strong enough in the paint. Ware would often get stripped by a 2nd or 3rd body in the paint when he brings the ball down to get into a move to try to score/create.

- A few turnovers were from moving screen calls on offense--I can dig it because it showed his desire to move people instead of slipping screens and avoiding contact.

- He showed no signs of a functional handle at Indiana. Would almost never even dribble the ball up after a rebound in transition. It seemed like he was specifically told not to do so. A few of his turnovers were the result of him putting the ball on the floor. I wouldn't bank on Ware being much of an off the dribble driver early on.

DEFENSE:

- Ware's combination of length and movement ability is rare. It shows up on the court well beyond his block numbers. It impacts how drivers approach the paint and put up shots.

- From the tape I saw, Ware is not a shut down defender today. He's inconsistent with elite tools. He also clearly was not in a system or context to be a shut down defender.

- Ware didn't have good defensive teammates around him to make his job any easier. Indiana ranked 234th in defensive efficiency this season. Indiana had 4 of 5 new starters this season. The 1 returning starter was Trey Galloway (Senior). He was the worst defensive starter on last year's Indiana team that tanked 102nd defensively. The other 3 starters along Ware were 2 freshman and a Sophomore transfer (so 4 of 5 starters weren't with the program last year).

- Ware's full extended length shows up a lot and makes things difficult for the opposition. He highpoints rebounds and alters a lot of shots by extending and being a long wall defensively.

- Ware's length and coordination consistently show up defensively--including getting hands on balls that appear to be going through clean passing lanes (deflections). He's not lumbering defensively--he looks natural moving on defense even when he's out in space.

- He looks engaged defensively, but sometimes appears a step slow processing or being certain what action to take in team defense (sometimes he's ball watching too much as a result).

- Ware needs to work on his body positioning and footwork mirroring defensively. With his physical skills, there is a A LOT of upside if he can get more consistent with his footwork and use of body positioning for team defense. Indiana's defensive rotations were poor as a whole (see defensive efficiency rating).

- Ware looks good sliding his feet when guarding along the perimeter. Often times you see drivers spazz out as they expect to be able to blow by Ware off a switch but he stays with them stride for stride. Perimeter players aren't going to just walk past him. Ware was susceptible to getting put on skates with craft double moves, though.

- Ware uses his length well, but his weaker base consistently shows up when battling for positioning in the paint.

- Ware is more of a reactionary defender than he is an anticipatory defender at this point. He shows discipline by not jumping at every shot fake. He actually looked too delayed at times in reacting. I wonder if some of this was him being coached to not overreact.

- Ware is a very good shotblocker and rim deterrent. But, I can't place him in the elite category as a shotblocker.

- Ware faced Zach Edey twice this season. Edey got his against Indiana. Refs called A LOT of tick tack fouls against Ware vs Edey. Interestingly, when you dig a little deeper, you find that Edey's 3rd and 4th least efficient games of the season were in the matchup against Ware. Ware battled and made it hard for Edey on a possession by possession basis in the paint. Very encouraging IMO. He blocked Edey numerous times (more than accounted for in the official stats).

FINAL THOUGHTS:

- Ware will benefit GREATLY from quality coaching, working within defined systems, NBA spacing, and operating as a supporting piece rather than the primary offensive option and defensive anchor.

- The 2 biggest boosts to Ware's impact will come from gaining functional strength and operating within a clearly defined role.

- When Ware knows where he wants to go, his athleticism and length are impressive to see on display.

- I believe his shooting touch is for real and Miami should have him working as a floor spacer from the jump.

I'm excited to watch Ware play. I believe and hope he should get some rotation minutes from the get-go as a backup center, but Miami will need to be patient with his development. I expect Ware to follow a similar trajectory to Jovic with regards to weight gain and developing the toolkit to bump with bigs (screening, boxing out, etc). I think Ware's natural physical gifts and shooting touch should allow him to slot into a low usage off-ball role from the jump where he's solely a play finisher and not hunting for his own offense. Defensively, he'll need developmental time to defend the stronger frontcourt players. He can have his greatest impact in a limited role where he "hides" on corner 3 pt shooters and doubles as the weakside rim protector.

If Ware fills out his frame to eventually be a 245+ pound big and can play confidently within his specifically designated role, then skies the limit as a force multiplier for Miami on both sides of the ball. It will take a couple years to get there. He's not a Derrick Lively level defensive player today. But he has more offensive upside IMO.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#235 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:08 pm

Shewasfly wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:We are back to putting Bam at C to hide his offense again.

Image


Bam's first full season shooting 3s and he already hit league average marks from 3 for the PF position for this season (with clear progression over the back half). Despite still playing more than half his minutes at center.

Great, so let's keep him there. At PF. Where he belongs. And let's get a real C, or continue to develop Ware at C, including his long range shooting, so we can have NBA size.

But let's NOT build around and slant our roster/lineup towards someone who we know for sure cannot lead the team. That is Bam. That is also Herro, if it makes you guys feel any better!! Let's get a real #1 and fix our lineup/roster around maximizing HIM.


Bam can and will play both PF and C. That is the good thing. Ware and Bam can absolutely work. The early returns on that were actually one of the lone promising elements of the season (along with Herro's improvement and durability). Ware just needs to develop more.

I don't tend to view Miami Heat basketball as some zero-sum game between Bam and Herro so miss me with that nonsense.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#236 » by Tim_Hardawayy » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:09 pm

Please stop the KD nonsense. Bam is not some secret top 5-10 player that needs a KD to magically unlock his talents. He had Jimmy next to him, a guy who is a better team player than KD (in terms of passing/creation) and it didn't happen, an older KD is not going to manifest that.

I'm not desperate to get rid of Bam, but if we're going to operate this offseason as if all it takes to compete is putting a Ja Morant or KD next to him to compete for championships, then **** that noise.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#237 » by Tim_Hardawayy » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:12 pm

greg4012 wrote:
I don't tend to view Miami Heat basketball as some zero-sum game between Bam and Herro so miss me with that nonsense.

That's an invention of one poster with an obvious agenda who spams it in every thread despite being called out numerous times. When everyone else says it, it ain't them, it's you bro. And I know he's got enough common sense to realize it, so I don't get it.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#238 » by greg4012 » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:12 pm

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:Please stop the KD nonsense. Bam is not some secret top 5-10 player that needs a KD to magically unlock his talents. He had Jimmy next to him, a guy who is a better team player than KD (in terms of passing/creation) and it didn't happen, an older KD is not going to manifest that.

I'm not desperate to get rid of Bam, but if we're going to operate this offseason as if all it takes to compete is putting a Ja Morant or KD next to him to compete for championships, then **** that noise.


Let people talk about it and voice why you don't think it works. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#239 » by Hallstar » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:13 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Hide Bams offense while he’s outscored the player you all are stanning for in 7 of their last 9 playoff games while Herro was cast as the first option who we would spam non stop screens for to get open and also assisted on more baskets than him in 7 of the 9 games as well.

As they would say, make it make sense.

Lol at outscored, in a game that was done in the second quarter. Did Bam take a shot while the game was relevant? I just knew you would try to sneak that in.
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Re: 2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10 

Post#240 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Apr 29, 2025 8:14 pm

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:Please stop the KD nonsense. Bam is not some secret top 5-10 player that needs a KD to magically unlock his talents. He had Jimmy next to him, a guy who is a better team player than KD (in terms of passing/creation) and it didn't happen, an older KD is not going to manifest that.

I'm not desperate to get rid of Bam, but if we're going to operate this offseason as if all it takes to compete is putting a Ja Morant or KD next to him to compete for championships, then **** that noise.


Who is declaring him a top 5-10 player that will be unlocked with KD? Jimmy didn’t make him a top 5-10 player but they sure as hell we’re one of the most successful duos in the league postseason wise when they were together and both had several big playoff moments to lead those runs. Adding an elite talent like KD and filling the roster out with competent role players can definitely lead team success, which should be the main goal. If Herro were to figure it out and be able to perform when we get to the playoffs if he’s still on the roster after landing someone like KD then even better
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