The Retooling Thread: What do we do now

Post #221 » by **LEIF** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:29 am

Haslem is a starter on this team or pretty much any team he goes to, you might not think so but every coach in this league does....

Blount could be a servicable starting center but it is absolutely imperative that you back him up with a defensive minded, shot blocking, rebounding big with GOOD size, this player has to have the size to match up with the Shaq/Duncan/Bynum/Kaman centers in the league...I once again will say I think Diop is a great target for us this offseason.

MartyConlonJr · Post #222 » by **MartyConlonJr** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:50 am

What I mean is that Haslem, Blount or Dorell can be viewed as starters, but there's valid arguments that they won't win their matchups. Haslem is a viable starting PF, will win some, will lose some. Mainly if he gets outsized or outmuscled by a scoring PF like a Garnett, Okafor, K-Mart, Rasheed, Jermaine, Jefferson, Dwight, Gasol, Randolph, Aldridge, Amare, Duncan, Bosh, Boozer, Jamison, Brand, Nowitzki (finals choke notwithstanding). I just named half the NBA teams PF there. I mean, he's far from a certainty to win a matchup. Basically as a reserve I am sure we are ahead of the curve, as a starter we are adequate. Now if I can move him for a PF like Brand with an expiring (unlikely unless Brand demands out), we have shored up the starting PF to a level where I think we win most matchups there.

I'm not saying Haslem can't be a starting PF there, just that he is no more than adequate there - especially without an attention drawing center like Shaq.

My list indicated where I am sure we can win our matchups, not where I expect to see our players next year. But if I can move a guy I'm very comfortable with as a backup PF for a guy I'm confident with as a starting PF, then I do it, becuase its much easier to use the other expiring in a trade, the draft pick, or the MLE to fill out the backup PF than it is to fill out the starting PF.

Post #223 » by **LEIF** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:20 am

on a side note I think Milwaukee is a team that we should watch closely. I could see Riley offering our draft pick + expiring contracts (JWill and/or RDavis) and young pieces (Cook and/or Wright) if he could piece MoWill and Redd around Wade, Marion and Haslem.

Ford said he has heard we would move our pick in the right deal, a chance to get that package would be enticing.

Ballwise · Post #224 » by **Ballwise** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:24 am

Don"t like the idea of Redd being our SG and Wade our PG, he doesn't like it so do I...not. Anyway, about the PF's Marty is right, except that Okafor is a tweener between C and PF and K-Mart is not as good as Haslem, contract out of the equasion. But Milwaukee is a good trading partner, like one of the deals you proposed about Mo Williams I'm starting to like it.

Anyway, we"re in a good position to trade, there is just no way we should take back bad contracts without losing our own or taking the first deal that comes around. We should be patient hope we get a decent role player (preferably a shooter) with one of our expirings. Then draft a good player (Whoever in the first 4) and add a valuable piece with the MLE.

We'll be a nice team next year, not a contender. Don't expect too much. But next year, if Blount keeps up his recent and decent play, we might get a more enticing offer, Parker is expiring, we got Marion probably expiring and a future 1st! That including Haslem might land us something great which we need and as Riles said, I want to be in "contention" earlier than 16 months. Let's give him 12 and see what he makes of it

Post #225 » by **Lane1974** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:19 pm

our pick will have more value in the offseason that it does now, we don't need to be in a rush to move it, unless an A level star is coming back in return.

Post #226 » by **BFRESH44** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:28 pm

There's not a single player out there available worth giving our pick up If we get number 1 or 2(Beasley/Rose). Not one.

Not even Brand whom we have to see how he responds to his torn achilles. One of the more serious injuries a basketball payer can sustain. It completly robbs you of lift and explosion.

Hell, I'm holding out judgement on Brand as being what he once was...

This draft pick aside to Wade + Marion WILL be the core, going forward.

HIF · Post #227 » by **HIF** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:05 pm

We'd be stupid to move our draft pick before the end of the season.

miamiballer · Post #228 » by **miamiballer** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:46 pm

heres an interesting idea...why not move marion to pf permanently and wright to sf....we can do the following deals

trade haslem and parker to mil for mo

trade davis and cook to mem for mike miller

draft a center in next yr's draft

lopez/blount
marion
mike miller/wright
wade
mo/banks

MartyConlonJr · Post #229 » by **MartyConlonJr** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:12 pm

As I've said before, we cannot trade our draft pick during the season anyway due to the conditional pick owed to Orlando. We can, I think, give someone the right to swap picks with us. Either way, I agree we should hang on to it. You get a ready to contribute guy in the draft and you get a third of their career at bargain rates. With two max guys on the team you have to get cheap help where you can. That the draft is PG heavy and we are PG needy only adds to the reasoning that we should keep the pick.

Not only is the draft PG heavy, but has every type of PG you want.

Rose - pure PG, distributor, floor general
Mayo - tall hybrid high scoring PG
Gordon - combo guard sniper (maybe able to share duties in our lineup but questionable)
Bayless - some combination of the three above.

We not only can get that level of talent, but we can choose the guy that fits our team the best.

Of course there is Beasley if we luck out with the #1 pick, but anywhere 1-8 (which we are basically guaranteed) and we can get our PG of the future.

CB4MiamiHeat · Post #230 » by **CB4MiamiHeat** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:33 pm

If we dont get Beasley or Bayless i would mind trading that pick for a proven star...i top 5 pick easily gets you a star on a bad team.

Its still early though, theres the whole tournament for guys like Rose, Mayo, Lopez, Thabeet to step up. I like Gordon, but hes a SG unfortunately, not a combo guard.

TheGreatPooter · Post #231 » by **TheGreatPooter** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:04 am

if we pick bayless over rose i am going to cry.

and thats not an insult to bayless its just that rose is going to be a lock down point guard defender with the athletic ability of jordan

and a GREAT ATTITUDE, hes a floor general, hes everything we could ever weant. to put it one way hes a better god damn athlete than wade.

and dont give me the bs about harold miner being a great athlete. he doesnt have **** on rose.

Post #232 » by **LEIF** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:05 am

yeah I drool over the defensive capaiblities of a Rose/Banks combo at PG for us.....

Rose-Wade-Marion-Wright-Haslem is a great defensive unit also

TheGreatPooter · Post #233 » by **TheGreatPooter** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:38 am

WheywethWordz wrote:yeah I drool over the defensive capaiblities of a Rose/Banks combo at PG for us.....

Rose-Wade-Marion-Wright-Haslem is a great defensive unit also

but this guys offense is built for the nba. he can take contact, kiss the rim, cross over, thread a pass, and in a year or two with nba coaching he will be able to stroke it

hes the type of guy that will have amazing head to head batles with a guy like chris paul. im prayin for that 1 or 2 pick and i cant decide between rose and beasley, and i still think theres other plenty of great players in the draft

Post #234 » by **BFRESH44** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:15 am

Derrick Rose's ceiling dwarfs Jerryld Bayless's. DWARFS!

Mourning_Heat_33 · Post #235 » by **Mourning_Heat_33** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:04 pm

FIVE STEPS TO TITLE

1. Trade

Jason Williams (expiring contract)
Ricky Davis (expiring contract)
Daquan Cook (young, potential)
Alexander Johnson, Joel Anthony OR Earl Barron (young power player)
2008 1st Round Pick (likely top 3)

to Clippers for

Elton Brand (third piece to Heat's core)
Dan Dickau (filler)
2008 1st Round pick (likely 6 through 9 pick, we do a pick swap with them, they get whichever pick ends up higher)

(Or, rework this trade with a third team that has a star veteran that wants a new setting in a position that the Clippers need. Send that veteran to Clippers, who, in turn, send us Brand. We send out expiring contracts to this new third team. The pick swap with the Clippers remains.)

2. Draft Hasheem Thabeet with 8th pick in the 2008 draft (runs floor well, defensive force in the middle, huge size, 7'3")

3. Resign Zo, for obvious reasons, and to mentor Thabeet

4. Use as much of MLE necessary to sign Chris Duhon, an excellent defender and 3-pt shooter at PG who can also fill up the assist category; he has torched us many a time

5. Trade Blount, Wright, future pick for Mike Miller, shooter/defender/slasher

Rotation

g Duhon 24 mpg
g Banks 24 mpg
g Wade 35 mpg
fg Miller 26 mpg
f Marion 35 mpg
f Haslem 30 mpg
f Brand 35 mpg
c Zo 16 mpg
c Thabeet 15 mpg

a team full of versatility, talent at each position, shooting, star power, inside presence, outside presence, tough defense, Heat may have MLE left over to sign another shooter off the bench and perhaps some other players; welcome back to being a contender with a new, fun, exciting team full of plenty familiar faces and a few news ones too

radikalBaller · Post #236 » by **radikalBaller** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:06 pm

miamiballer wrote:heres an interesting idea...why not move marion to pf permanently and wright to sf....we can do the following deals

trade haslem and parker to mil for mo

trade davis and cook to mem for mike miller

draft a center in next yr's draft

lopez/blount
marion
mike miller/wright
wade
mo/banks

i'd be real pissed if they use a top pick on that brook lopez

OAKTREE NYK1 · Post #237 » by **OAKTREE NYK1** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:41 pm

Touche

Post #238 » by **Lane1974** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:38 pm

Ira's Monday blog has us still linked to Miller & Lowry from Memphis (and he jokingly says Wallace owes us one for giving him his first break in the league) and that the Craptors are shopping our beloved Pwno.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_ba ... rough.html

CRHeel94 · Post #239 » by **CRHeel94** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:42 pm

Lowry is an interesting player, but aren't his skills somewaht redundant to Banks? Still, the Grizz have a glut of young pgs and they need to move one at some point.

Post #240 » by **Lane1974** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:49 pm

from Chad Ford's insider article (can't cut and paste but can paraphrase):

* Pat won't ever go into true rebuilding mode, wants to trade Ricky & J-Will's expirings for pieces. Eyeing Miller & Lowry and some of the Blazers

from his post on the Blazers:
* GM Pritchard has an itchy trigger finger, they are trying to get Danny Granger and lost out on Devin Harris, but willing to move Outlaw, Rodriguez, Jack, and Webster in the right deal