Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It?

[Bishop45]

I started hooping since I was 5 years old and played semi pro organized basketball. I helped my son become a pro basketball player in South America. Been watching Basketball religiously since the Magic Johnson and Bird era. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I am not a stat fanatic either but I agree with AirP, Winslow is not making our starting lineup better by just playing superb defense and getting some rebounds. Playing in the starting lineup with Bam who is another player who opposing defenders don't respect his outside game means our spacing becomes terrible. We broke a Heat scoring record last night in that first quarter in big part due to Duncan Robinson being an offensive weapon and spacer for the rest of our offense to flow.

Maybe if we play him at SF and he can start hitting those catch and shoot 3 pointers like he did in the past for us, could work better than him being a PG who can't finish layups or hit a mid range jumper and is terrible at the free-throw line. Or maybe he could be more of an asset playing with the second unit. That's all we I'm saying.

Not being a great 3 pt threat isn't a complete end, as there are other good reasons for Justise to start at PG. He's not a detriment to the starters, especially not based on a single game. Justise has been a plus for a majority of his career.

We do this every time a player is out during a good game or run; Did it to Dragic last year, to Winslow in '16, Waiters and Winslow now and
Claim it as facts

Name the rotation.

Right now it's

Nunn/Dragic
Butler/Herro
Duncan/Justise:DJJ
Bam/JJ/djj
Leonard/KO

Where do you put Dion and Justise? Duncan wormed his way into rotation. I think Duncan and Dion get shipped out together.

Nunn/Dragic
Justise/Herro
Butler/Dion
Leonard/JJ
Bam/Olynyk

I'd prioritize Robinson over Leonard, for shooting and mobility on the perimeter defensively, but I don't think Spo would bench a day 1 starter without having any other choice. Ultimately comes to Dion and Duncan, and I'd choose Dion over Duncan for the hunt in the long run; you want dribble penetrators and multi-dimensional players on your bench in the playoffs, especially if you can have 2 guys like Dion/Dragic off the pine. We're going to(likely) be trusting two rookies to play a lot of mins, good idea to have experience tailoring them

I live in the Benzo with reality tho, that says both Duncan and Leonard stays unless Spo has his hand forced. Hard to see Justise not back as the nominal PG tho, for the same reasons. He's best at guard, and not being a good shooter isn't close to a good enough reason for him to take a worse role when he helps the team more at guard

[MartyConlonJr]

I'm afraid for the type of $$$ we will offer Derrick Jones Jr next year (unless he magically becomes a star player this season). He is the only guy not under contract or on a cheap cap hold for the off season FA we are targeting. He is the logical choice to move if we need to facilitate moving on Dion etc, as I feel we will need to let him go at the end of the season anyway.

His contributions are mainly at SF and some small ball PF and those are minutes that can go to KZ, Winslow, Butler and Duncan Robinson.

So not to say he is bad, just makes the most logical asset to move should we need to

[AirP.]

Justise is a role player. Need is not universal against every team. People tend to forget, bball has a lot to do with matchup. Winslow would help a lot against teams with wing duos. Even thou the Heat played well last night. It was helped a lot by Westbrook hurting Houston. If Harden and Westbrook were hot, Winslow would of been vital.

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To your point, styles make fights.

Justice can defend almost any wing on D. His defensive prowess will always have a place on the team.

Yes but you can't let an inefficient player shoot so much. He's been highly inefficient his whole career and his FGA per 36 just keeps climbing. I'm fine with him shooting open 3s, but he's climbed up to 9.1 2pt fga per 36 last year and this year it's at 12.2. There are things that can make Justise more efficient but it'll probably be a huge hit to his ego to admit it and do something about it.

[AirP.]

I'm afraid for the type of $$$ we will offer Derrick Jones Jr next year (unless he magically becomes a star player this season). He is the only guy not under contract or on a cheap cap hold for the off season FA we are targeting. He is the logical choice to move if we need to facilitate moving on Dion etc, as I feel we will need to let him go at the end of the season anyway.

His contributions are mainly at SF and some small ball PF and those are minutes that can go to KZ, Winslow, Butler and Duncan Robinson.

So not to say he is bad, just makes the most logical asset to move should we need to

I think KZ is DJJ's replacement, what they wanted to do with DJJ they'll end up using KZ. DDJ's body type and style just keeps him getting hurt, hard to build a rotation with those types of players.

[twix2500]

I'm really glad everyone is now understanding why Butler was a great addition to this team.

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[Bishop45]

Winslow / Dragic
Nunn / Herro
Butler / Robinson
Adebayo / JJ
Leonard / Olynyk

Robinson’s hot shooting has him taking DJJ’s rotation spot IMO. DJJ and JJ gonna be fighting for PF mins, but I’m giving it to JJ as I think he fits better between KO and DRob.

Same with me, although still not sold on Leonard although Hou's small lineups made him look like Shaq the other day

[Bishop45]

I'm really glad everyone is now understanding why Butler was a great addition to this team.

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Still meh on the decision to trade for him, it does make our morbidity look a lot more compressed tho

Would've been good with picks too. I've always liked Jimmy tho, so what's to hate. Gotta take risks sometimes

[Beenie]

Justise is a role player. Need is not universal against every team. People tend to forget, bball has a lot to do with matchup. Winslow would help a lot against teams with wing duos. Even thou the Heat played well last night. It was helped a lot by Westbrook hurting Houston. If Harden and Westbrook were hot, Winslow would of been vital.

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To your point, styles make fights.

Justice can defend almost any wing on D. His defensive prowess will always have a place on the team.

Yes but you can't let an inefficient player shoot so much. He's been highly inefficient his whole career and his FGA per 36 just keeps climbing. I'm fine with him shooting open 3s, but he's climbed up to 9.1 2pt fga per 36 last year and this year it's at 12.2. There are things that can make Justise more efficient but it'll probably be a huge hit to his ego to admit it and do something about it.

I agree that Justice ought to shoot less. I'll go one further, he doesn't necessarily need to be a big minute staple which is Twix' point. With the depth of the roster, his minutes should be determined by his effectiveness and also by the matchup and style of play of the opponent.

[MadD23]

Justise is a role player. Need is not universal against every team. People tend to forget, bball has a lot to do with matchup. Winslow would help a lot against teams with wing duos. Even thou the Heat played well last night. It was helped a lot by Westbrook hurting Houston. If Harden and Westbrook were hot, Winslow would of been vital.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

To your point, styles make fights.

Justice can defend almost any wing on D. His defensive prowess will always have a place on the team.

Yes but you can't let an inefficient player shoot so much. He's been highly inefficient his whole career and his FGA per 36 just keeps climbing. I'm fine with him shooting open 3s, but he's climbed up to 9.1 2pt fga per 36 last year and this year it's at 12.2. There are things that can make Justise more efficient but it'll probably be a huge hit to his ego to admit it and do something about it.

Also he averages just 5.8 assists with 3.5 turnovers in 37 minutes per game so far. I'm all for playing him at the SF position for as long as Spo wants but PG? Don't see how that's helping us or him.

[al bondiga]

let's face it and talk about it ...riley is probably willing to trade anybody on this team not named JB, which means he doesn't think they are good enough for a ring or even an ECF

[Bishop45]

To your point, styles make fights.

Justice can defend almost any wing on D. His defensive prowess will always have a place on the team.

Yes but you can't let an inefficient player shoot so much. He's been highly inefficient his whole career and his FGA per 36 just keeps climbing. I'm fine with him shooting open 3s, but he's climbed up to 9.1 2pt fga per 36 last year and this year it's at 12.2. There are things that can make Justise more efficient but it'll probably be a huge hit to his ego to admit it and do something about it.

Also he averages just 5.8 assists with 3.5 turnovers in 37 minutes per game so far. I'm all for playing him at the SF position for as long as Spo wants but PG? Don't see how that's helping us or him.

That's not a great Ast/TO ratio, but that's not a bad one either. Winslow at guard gets to use his size to get in the lane, get boards, and post-up smaller players and create mismatches. What advantages does he have to that playing Forward? How does it further the team?

[MadD23]

Yes but you can't let an inefficient player shoot so much. He's been highly inefficient his whole career and his FGA per 36 just keeps climbing. I'm fine with him shooting open 3s, but he's climbed up to 9.1 2pt fga per 36 last year and this year it's at 12.2. There are things that can make Justise more efficient but it'll probably be a huge hit to his ego to admit it and do something about it.

Also he averages just 5.8 assists with 3.5 turnovers in 37 minutes per game so far. I'm all for playing him at the SF position for as long as Spo wants but PG? Don't see how that's helping us or him.

That's not a great Ast/TO ratio, but that's not a bad one either. Winslow at guard gets to use his size to get in the lane, get boards, and post-up smaller players and create mismatches. What advantages does he have to that playing Forward? How does it further the team?

The problem is that his low FG% suggests he is not taking advantage of smaller players. And his Rebounds won't suffer wether he plays SF or PG. Look, I really hope he proves me and others wrong, at the end we all want the same, the best for the team. We want to win, so I'll be jumping on one leg of joy if Winslow develops an offensive game, that would make him a star instantly at any position. But while that happens, I believe not playing PG will lower the need of meeting those expectations immediately and could help him and the team during the process.

[Bishop45]

Also he averages just 5.8 assists with 3.5 turnovers in 37 minutes per game so far. I'm all for playing him at the SF position for as long as Spo wants but PG? Don't see how that's helping us or him.

That's not a great Ast/TO ratio, but that's not a bad one either. Winslow at guard gets to use his size to get in the lane, get boards, and post-up smaller players and create mismatches. What advantages does he have to that playing Forward? How does it further the team?

The problem is that his low FG% suggests he is not taking advantage of smaller players. And his Rebounds won't suffer wether he plays SF or PG. Look, I really hope he proves me and others wrong, at the end we all want the same, the best for the team. We want to win, so I'll be jumping on one leg of joy if Winslow develops an offensive game, that would make him a star instantly at any position. But while that happens, I believe not playing PG will lower the need of meeting those expectations immediately and could help him and the team during the process.

Yes, so he has multiple advantages that help his game and the team while playing at PG, but playing SF helps his FG%? He had his most efficient year playing PG last yr

I'm not being defensive about Winslow, just not 100% on which issues this would ameliorate for him. Are we just playing him less cause he's a bad player?

[AirP.]

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[Majestic7]

Whats the site??

Spoiler:

https://www.nbafullhd.com
http://fullmatchtv.com/index.php/nba/

[Majestic7]

Read on Twitter

[Majestic7]

Here's one of my favorite people, Joe B., giving a quick take on his thoughts about the Heat's season so far.

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[Spacely]

We are now first seed because philly lost to the suns hahahahaha

[dean456]

Hater no, realist yes. For a person who said you can now call him a sniper, he's been anything but in games. Great defensively, great vision, great passing, not so much on shooting and definitely not taking advantage of his size at PG near the basket.

.489, .399, .496, .513, .431
Those are J.Winslow's TS% for each year in the league, from rookie to current season. The 3rd worst TS% team in the league this season matches Winslow's best year at .513, the worst team in the league currently, Orlando is shooting .480 TS%.

How many Miami players currently have a better TS% then Winslow... all of them. 9 players have a TS% of .562 or higher, only Butler, Olynyk and Winslow are at .492 or lower, the difference is 2 of those are career wise MUCH better TS% then what their current stats show, Winslow not so much.

He’s played 3 or 4 games. Its a new unit. Stop looking for bogeymen, root for our guys to be their best selves and enjoy the damn ride. I’ll never understand the constant need to witch hunt players from this fanbase, particulary the guys that show up, represent the team well and do their jobs.

I'm looking at history repeating itself for a player. I heard the same arguments from Minnesota fans with Wiggins because at the time Minnesota was the 3rd seed with Butler (this is great, look how good we're doign), but just looking at the statistics you could see how much Wiggins was hold them back EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE HAVING SUCCESS AT THE TIME, luckily for Miami Justice is on a solid contract.

God, enough of this over examination of Winslow already. He's 15pts/8.5rebs/6ast/1.3stls/0.8blks in his 4 games and one of those was a 2pt game. Since he's been out the last two game with lower back pain maybe you could just give him the benefit of the doubt and see if his shooting changes once his back recovers?

Worst part of it is Winslow is obviously the type of guy that lets the talk about his game effect his confidence but fans are just relentless in letting him have it at every opportunity they get. Stop being counter productive to this teams success and support the guys we have. Also the only thing Wiggins and Winslow have in common is they have both played with Jimmy Butler but that's where the comparisons end.

[MadD23]

That's not a great Ast/TO ratio, but that's not a bad one either. Winslow at guard gets to use his size to get in the lane, get boards, and post-up smaller players and create mismatches. What advantages does he have to that playing Forward? How does it further the team?

The problem is that his low FG% suggests he is not taking advantage of smaller players. And his Rebounds won't suffer wether he plays SF or PG. Look, I really hope he proves me and others wrong, at the end we all want the same, the best for the team. We want to win, so I'll be jumping on one leg of joy if Winslow develops an offensive game, that would make him a star instantly at any position. But while that happens, I believe not playing PG will lower the need of meeting those expectations immediately and could help him and the team during the process.

Yes, so he has multiple advantages that help his game and the team while playing at PG, but playing SF helps his FG%? He had his most efficient year playing PG last yr

I'm not being defensive about Winslow, just not 100% on which issues this would ameliorate for him. Are we just playing him less cause he's a bad player?

I believe so. He'll take open shots, play within the offense and won't need to force the issue. He is an effective shooter when his feet are set and he takes balanced jumpers playing off the ball. He could also drive to the basket, handle the ball in certain situations and continue to develop his overall game without the pressure of being the PG of a team with high expectations already. LEt's give him more time, hopefully he turns that corner and make us all believers but I just don't see that offensive touch in his game and that concerns me because as a PG, that could really set back the flow of our offense and do more bad than good when we look at the bigger picture. But we'll see what happens, I am sure Spo will ride with him at PG and it might take and injury (hopefully not) or for him to be horrible at it before Spo decides to try something different.