2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[greg4012]

It's like you said, reading the room. The whole 2026 plan seems like hope shilling to be perfectly honest. What star player is going to give up 50+ mil to come here, especially after this Jimmy PR disaster. The current target/victim is Fox, who says he wants to win, we take that literally. When players say I want to win, 99% of the time it's really, bleeping pay me. Fox wants to get that super max. So say we miss out on Fox, Herro is up for his 50 mil extension this October, Jovic wants to get paid, then JJJ is up next. All of the cap space will start to get mighty small all while we punt away another season. In the meantime Bam gets older, an undersized player whose whole game is based on athleticism. Its about reading the room

Is Fox supermax eligible?

I agree that's the major hurdle that makes the likes of Luka 2026 very questionable.

If he gets named to an all NBA team he is. If he gets that, then he can sign 345 mil 5 year contract, basically almost 70 mil a year. Like most things, just follow the money and it all starts to make sense.

So you think he's getting All-NBA this season?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We just started the Ware and Bam front court. It needs time and the proper build now. It’s worth the patience. Get a scoring SF and real PG with them and allow the unit to gel.

100%

Look if there's a Gobert+ haul for Bam, I don't take issue with a massive haul and full rebuild. For that level haul, I'm OK with trading anyone on the roster. This is a clear pivot and regroup season for the post-Jimmy era. I'm still optimistic that Miami doesn't have to completely drop off to get back to a really exciting competitive squad.

Some seem really eager to get Bam off the team no matter the return and that seems WILD to me. It also seems wild to think that projecting forward, Bam will never have as much market value as he has today. But, to each their own. Some may believe that Bam will only get worse from here and will never physically or mentally be who he was as recently as this summer. I don't get that at all.

Personally, I've seen Bam produce way too much value when it matters most (the defender in the NBA that quite literally covers the most space in a spacing playoff game) to think that he's fizzled out at 27 years old. Esp when you see his archetype of player--Draymond, Horford, etc--be crucial pieces for top tier playoff contenders into their mid 30s.

I've seen Bam have an All-Star season producing to the tune of 16 ppg, 10 rpg, 5 apg, and elite defense as a starting big next to a slow-footed 7' center that can space the floor.

I've seen Bam produce as a 20 ppg scorer on good efficiency and plus playmaking on an offense that features a #1 option that isn't a real 3pt threat and scores from the same parts of the court that Bam is most comfortable occupying and scoring from.

I've seen Bam evolve his game to be relied upon as an iso-scorer in the absence of even league-average playmaking coming from the perimeter players.

Bam is out of whack in a wonky environment. I'm still a believer in his strengths and that he can produce in the manners commensurate with how he's produced in the past (with a 7' center, with decent playmaking guards, with spacing on the floor, as a facilitating hub). I do not believe he will suddenly become less impactful defensively.

With Jimmy out, this is fully a developmental season. Let's develop a framework to build off of that will work with Bam and Ware.

Miami currently has at least $74M in allotted salary that is not serving roster construction in any way right now (Jimmy and Terry). $93M if you add in Duncan's contract.

Let's turn that $93M into productive roster balance and use that to fuel the potential of this new frontcourt.

Very well said.

[MettaWorldPanda]

The way i look at this. We just made a trade for Bam at the 4 and replaced the 6’5 Highsmith at the 4. Give it some phucking time. Even at Bam’s worst he’s still a double double and gives you Highsmith’s defense and then some. Fix the other spots now damnit

[batterybro42]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

KO and Meyers were stretch 5s and basically able to be handled the same way PJ Tucker was handled within the offense. Ware is not going to be the guy camped in the corner waiting for the ball off actions. Ware is going to be the primary screener, lob threat, and rim runner moving forward. Bam is going to have to change positions. He's currently firing straight piss missiles at the backboard, and looking like a fish out of water on offense. There is growing sentiment that Bam is not going to be capable of making that adjustment, considering he spent the entire last offseason trying to make it and this is what we are left with. People are making it seem like Bam just started trying to shoot and change his game. He has been trying to do that his entire career. Every offseason it gets hyped only to see him regress back into try hard dunk man. At a certain point you have to assume that is what he is. For a ton of NBA teams that is perfect, but not when that collides with the 20 year unicorn you drafted, who is already outpacing him in the paint on both ends.

[greg4012]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

In my mind the Bam/Ware duo would work cleaner with Bam taking advantage of Ware as well, but needs to focus on his face up game and size some post ups, now that he is against guys his size or smaller play more bully ball pull the secondary defender and lob to Ware or pass to open shooters.

Just go back and watch the 1st quarter, everything was flowing great on both ends. Bam was involved in the offense as we were working to get him shots like we need to be doing all game, Herro was getting good looks coming off screens or 2nd chance opportunities Bam was getting us on the glass, Ware literally isn’t being guarded off ball so we were finding him on open lobs, and Duncan was flying around everywhere being a distraction and hitting open looks. Defensively we were locked in, no one was getting easy looks. The second the bench and Terry came in all that went to waste. From that point on we were pressing to try and catch up

Everybody's misses were def compounding into the rim getting smaller and smaller for the team as a whole. Terry is ignitable in all the worst ways right now lol

[3ammy3uck3ts]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

KO and Meyers were stretch 5s and basically able to be handled the same way PJ Tucker was handled within the offense. Ware is not going to be the guy camped in the corner waiting for the ball off actions. Ware is going to be the primary screener, lob threat, and rim runner moving forward. Bam is going to have to change positions. He's currently firing straight piss missiles at the backboard, and looking like a fish out of water on offense. There is growing sentiment that Bam is not going to be capable of making that adjustment, considering he spent the entire last offseason trying to make it and this is what we are left with. People are making it seem like Bam just started trying to shoot and change his game. He has been trying to do that his entire career. Every offseason it gets hyped only to see him regress back into try hard dunk man. At a certain point you have to assume that is what he is. For a ton of NBA teams that is perfect, but not when that collides with the 20 year unicorn you drafted, who is already outpacing him in the paint on both ends.

You have a clear agenda and these are just pure garbage takes I’ll leave it at that and refer you to gregs prior post so you can learn a few things.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Full court press to sell Jimmy on Memphis this morning lol. Yes send Love out with him

[BlueHeat]

Is today the day fellas?

[Rapaz]

Is today the day fellas?

Yes.

[EMC5466]

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[greg4012]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

Exactly. On offense Ware can be the PF while Bam is at his Center spots on the floor. They can flip flop anytime. It’s up to Spo to make this work but the current roster does not have the right pieces.

You all remember that Lakers team that beat us in the bubble?

Anthony Davis played 60% of his minutes at PF that season. The frontcourt rotation was AD, Dwight and Javale McGee. AD shot 3.5 3PA per game that season at a 33% clip. None of the centers in rotation shot any 3s. AD had 63% of his FGM assisted that season (a higher rate than Bam has had since the 2021 season).

Granted, AD got hot shooting in the playoffs and that helped fuel their run. But, even that consisted of him hitting 38% from 3 at a lower rate of attempts than the regular season.

Ware's shooting and Bam's general versatility is what unlocks the pairing in theory. Getting backcourt support is crucial to complement it. Look at CLE #1 offense this season. 72% of Mobley's FGM are assisted. 83% of Jarrett Allen's FGM are assisted.

Among the top 16 scoring PFs in the NBA this season, half of them have a higher number of their FGM assisted than Bam has had since the 2020 and 2021 seasons.

I expect the new age of Bam's game to look more like his 2020 usage with added wrinkles and iteration.

[greg4012]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

KO and Meyers were stretch 5s and basically able to be handled the same way PJ Tucker was handled within the offense. Ware is not going to be the guy camped in the corner waiting for the ball off actions. Ware is going to be the primary screener, lob threat, and rim runner moving forward. Bam is going to have to change positions. He's currently firing straight piss missiles at the backboard, and looking like a fish out of water on offense. There is growing sentiment that Bam is not going to be capable of making that adjustment, considering he spent the entire last offseason trying to make it and this is what we are left with. People are making it seem like Bam just started trying to shoot and change his game. He has been trying to do that his entire career. Every offseason it gets hyped only to see him regress back into try hard dunk man. At a certain point you have to assume that is what he is. For a ton of NBA teams that is perfect, but not when that collides with the 20 year unicorn you drafted, who is already outpacing him in the paint on both ends.

You're def stubborn with your takes, I'll give you that. The reality you don't want to face is that it doesn't have to be so absolute and binary (being so is actually a detriment to success in modern playoff basketball where versatility is king).

Both Bam and Ware are going to be called to be primary screeners and rim run and pop at different times. The other will work the baseline/corners. All Miami's actions are designed to have secondary actions, off-ball actions, etc built into it. It takes time to get it working.

A Bam, Ware, Jovic frontcourt rotation should mean that Bam and Ware are sharing the court for about 15-18 minutes of the game.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

Exactly. On offense Ware can be the PF while Bam is at his Center spots on the floor. They can flip flop anytime. It’s up to Spo to make this work but the current roster does not have the right pieces.

You all remember that Lakers team that beat us in the bubble?

Anthony Davis played 60% of his minutes at PF that season. The frontcourt rotation was AD, Dwight and Javale McGee. AD shot 3.5 3PA per game that season at a 33% clip. None of the centers in rotation shot any 3s. AD had 63% of his FGM assisted that season (a higher rate than Bam has had since the 2021 season).

Granted, AD got hot shooting in the playoffs and that helped fuel their run. But, even that consisted of him hitting 38% from 3 at a lower rate of attempts than the regular season.

Ware's shooting and Bam's general versatility is what unlocks the pairing in theory. Getting backcourt support is crucial to complement it. Look at CLE #1 offense this season. 72% of Mobley's FGM are assisted. 83% of Jarrett Allen's FGM are assisted.

Among the top 16 scoring PFs in the NBA this season, half of them have a higher number of their FGM assisted than Bam has had since the 2020 and 2021 seasons.

I expect the new age of Bam's game to look more like his 2020 usage with added wrinkles and iteration.

We have to get a playmaker, there’s no way around it

[MettaWorldPanda]

Is today the day fellas?

Yes.

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[greg4012]

And this notion that Bam has to be a knockdown shooter if he’s playing the 4 is also wrong. Theyre obviously working to develop that over the season and into the summer and rightfully so but he could literally not shoot 3s and it still wouldn’t matter as long as Ware is hitting them at a respectable clip (like we saw year 1 with KO and Meyers) and then also factor in whoever we replace Jimmy with im going to assume is a much better/more willing shooter.

Everything is not so extreme, believe it or not the sky is not falling. Chill tf out and let it play itself out

KO and Meyers were stretch 5s and basically able to be handled the same way PJ Tucker was handled within the offense. Ware is not going to be the guy camped in the corner waiting for the ball off actions. Ware is going to be the primary screener, lob threat, and rim runner moving forward. Bam is going to have to change positions. He's currently firing straight piss missiles at the backboard, and looking like a fish out of water on offense. There is growing sentiment that Bam is not going to be capable of making that adjustment, considering he spent the entire last offseason trying to make it and this is what we are left with. People are making it seem like Bam just started trying to shoot and change his game. He has been trying to do that his entire career. Every offseason it gets hyped only to see him regress back into try hard dunk man. At a certain point you have to assume that is what he is. For a ton of NBA teams that is perfect, but not when that collides with the 20 year unicorn you drafted, who is already outpacing him in the paint on both ends.

KO, Meyers and PJ Tucker each occupied completely different parts of the court and had distinct functions in the offense from each other (esp Tucker). But, the fact that each were reliable shooting from 3, even at mid to low volume shows how it works with Bam.

Bam quite literally never tried shooting 3s or incorporate that into his game until the back half of last season.

[SA37]

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No idea why Chicago would swap Lavine for Beal, especially when the draft capital would be minimal. And I don't see Beal wanting to go play for a team that is setting up to tank by moving Lavine and Vucevic.

I also wonder why Butler is apparently adamant he won't go to Memphis. He must hate someone real bad there

I will repeat why Beal is the betting favorite for Chicago.

1. Gets to play in big city
2. Proximity to hometown St Louis
3. Getting to play with beloved college coach Billy D
4. His agency Priority Sports and Mark Bartlestein based out of Chicago
5. Admiration for Jordan(Tied with Jordan brand) marketing opportunities in big market Chicago.

Why the Bulls do this?

LaVine has told management he wants out of Chicago since last year. They will also get some other assets for being in this deal.

Damn, bruh. You did your homework on that one Excellent post.

[Enso]

Jimmy holding up the whole market

Wonder why he’s so against Memphis pretty strange, seems like a good fit for his country lovin ass lol

[greg4012]

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Damn dude--at this rate Jaime may not be able to help us with the dream of a fox trade. Really hope this Jimmy debacle gets wrapped up soon and Jaime finds some level footing.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Teams are literally not even guarding Ware yet, I’d assume his shot quality is sky high. This goes for 3s and quite a bit of his lobs too, seems like a pretty bold strategy to not have a body on the 7 footer in the paint but we’ll take it. When teams adjust and start to defend Ware closer this may also open things up for others and if they don’t then Ware will continue to take high quality shots and hopefully make them pay.