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Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#321 » by Hoops3355 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:02 pm

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MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Kobewade11 wrote:One could argue we jumped at the wrong PG with our best moveable asset. Is Ingram the absolute best we could do with the tradeable assets we have left?

Possibly. It’s a logical one considering all the factors. That’s unless you’re in the camp that we could realistically get Mitchell with Herro, Robinson, and Jovic. I’d like to see a healthy Rozier here after a full camp before making the determination that trading a late first for him was a terrible idea. It only looks terrible due to previous years of piss poor asset management. In particular the KZ Okpala trade in which we didn’t even take advantage of at the time.


I think what’s lost with Ingram is he’s in the right age group for us. He’s a young vet. He’s literally the same age as Bam, despite the fact it feels like he’s been around forever. At 26-27 years of age, he still has probably 5 years of prime before the decline.



I would guess that they'd probably do Herro, Robinson, + a future first. I don't see Pat and Co making that trade and not keeping 15. It's high enough that with our track record we'd probably get a starter / 6th man out of the pick. Draft guys how's the middle of draft looking? I know it's a little lean at the top but the talent floor across the board has been raised. Any decent PG prospects?
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#322 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 1:04 pm

Hoops3355 wrote:
Wiltside wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Possibly. It’s a logical one considering all the factors. That’s unless you’re in the camp that we could realistically get Mitchell with Herro, Robinson, and Jovic. I’d like to see a healthy Rozier here after a full camp before making the determination that trading a late first for him was a terrible idea. It only looks terrible due to previous years of piss poor asset management. In particular the KZ Okpala trade in which we didn’t even take advantage of at the time.


I think what’s lost with Ingram is he’s in the right age group for us. He’s a young vet. He’s literally the same age as Bam, despite the fact it feels like he’s been around forever. At 26-27 years of age, he still has probably 5 years of prime before the decline.



I would guess that they'd probably do Herro, Robinson, + a future first. I don't see Pat and Co making that trade and not keeping 15. It's high enough that with our track record we'd probably get a starter / 6th man out of the pick. Draft guys how's the middle of draft looking? I know it's a little lean at the top but the talent floor across the board has been raised. Any decent PG prospects?

PG is deep but all have some warts. Visit the draft thread. We have some real good in depth breakdowns on the prospects. Devin Carter is my personal favorite.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#323 » by Hoops3355 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:06 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Hoops3355 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:What's so wild about this take? That Spo was uncomfortable trusting a 20 year old year old who was clearly in way over his head in these playoffs? He basically trusted Haywood Highsmith alot more then he did Jovic. Jovic's body language also stunk when he would miss easy shots and the moment might have gotten to big for him. That's ok he's only 20 years old. Once again WOULD NOT SHOCK ME if Jovic is included in a deal that brings back a more ready and win now veteran that Spo can trust.




Once again not actually responding to facts of matter and projecting your illusions. At least its a consistent thing with you this season.

Opinions are up for discussion. Whether you agree with them or not. No need to resort to personal attacks because you don’t agree with a projection not to your liking. State your rebuttal and move on.


It's not personal attack. Opinion are made up of personal beliefs. You literally didn't respond to facts that I pointed about his health issues which explains the lack of minutes after his initial runs to start the halfs (staying warm key component but also hard when you are gas / injured) in the Boston series and then turned into a "Spo doesn't trust him narrative" don't be so sensitive when someone offers a counter point to something ridiculous.

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#324 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 1:13 pm

Hoops3355 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Hoops3355 wrote:


Once again not actually responding to facts of matter and projecting your illusions. At least its a consistent thing with you this season.

Opinions are up for discussion. Whether you agree with them or not. No need to resort to personal attacks because you don’t agree with a projection not to your liking. State your rebuttal and move on.


It's not personal attack. Opinion are made up of personal beliefs. You literally didn't respond to facts that I pointed about his health issues which explains the lack of minutes after his initial runs to start the halfs (staying warm key component but also hard when you are gas / injured) in the Boston series and then turned into a "Spo doesn't trust him narrative" don't be so sensitive when someone offers a counter point to something ridiculous.

Why did Spo close out with him during that meaningless blowout if he was that banged up? When you throw out words like “illusions” it comes off as very off putting. I would prefer we get back to more positive discussions. I’m not saying i’m right all the time. I just try to give my best educated opinion from all the hours of the team i watch and the countless amount of news i take in.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#325 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 1:44 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#326 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 1:46 pm

I don’t want no part of dealing Butler to Philly. Absolutely not
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#327 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 1:47 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#328 » by dubasilva » Fri May 3, 2024 1:53 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Here’s why i’m on the fence with Niko. He’s a stretch 4 so that’s definitely a plus next to Bam but don’t feel he’s rugged enough to be a pure compliment to Bam or to get back to Heat physical style of play. Niko is too busy playing like a guard when Bam needs another guy who can do the dirty work like rebound, screen, and give him a break defensively. Crowder and Tucker did a lot of those things and we saw great success with those two. Desperately been missing that element next to Bam.



That's why I think Nico should be a 3. Move Bam to the 4th, and draft or sign a C that is big and plays defense. Some intimidator.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#329 » by SoFlaKingReal » Fri May 3, 2024 1:55 pm

If you do that trade, should you then move Bam for 5-6 more FRPs and go full Thunder/Jazz?
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#330 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 2:00 pm

dubasilva wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Here’s why i’m on the fence with Niko. He’s a stretch 4 so that’s definitely a plus next to Bam but don’t feel he’s rugged enough to be a pure compliment to Bam or to get back to Heat physical style of play. Niko is too busy playing like a guard when Bam needs another guy who can do the dirty work like rebound, screen, and give him a break defensively. Crowder and Tucker did a lot of those things and we saw great success with those two. Desperately been missing that element next to Bam.


That's why I think Nico should be a 3. Move Bam to the 4th, and draft or sign a C that is big and plays defense. Some intimidator.

Niko’s game and overall makeup does project as a big point SF type like a Toni Kukoc. I just don’t know if he can handle it defensively and we are already crowded at that spot with Butler and JJJ. If this was old school basketball he would fall in line with the Kukoc’s and Schrempf’s at SF.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#331 » by DayofMourning » Fri May 3, 2024 2:01 pm

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I would cry tears of joy dude.

Butler can live on with positive memories.

That deal would be sick.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#332 » by Enso » Fri May 3, 2024 2:01 pm

SoFlaKingReal wrote:If you do that trade, should you then move Bam for 5-6 more FRPs and go full Thunder/Jazz?


Nah you keep Bam
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#333 » by AirP. » Fri May 3, 2024 2:02 pm

contract wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
contract wrote:Yes. We owe him $101 million over 2 years ... unless he declines his players option, in which case we owe him $49 million for 1 year. That's it. It would be a mistake to extend Jimmy at $50 million per year. It would be a mistake to extend Jimmy at $40 million per year.

There's a very high probability that Jimmy is already overpaid starting next season. I understand why he wants an extension, but there's no good reason for the Heat to give him one. It would be mismanagement to extend Jimmy.

Everyone supporting an extension now will be disowning it in 2 years.


No one think h'ell be worth his salary at age 37, the front office isn't stupid.

It's about taking care of your superstars, about letting him retire as a Heat, it's the things we **** up with Wade.
It's less about the future play and more about taking care of the person and appreciation his accomplishments.

It's only a 1 year extension, So I don't think it's that big of a deal. I don't think we're contending for a ship in 3 years anyway.

We're taking care of him now. He's not our superstar, he's a merc. He's played most of his career on 3 other teams.

He's a merc? He wanted to spend his whole career in Chicago and during their "2 year plan" to have cap space for 2 max players (which is why they gave Wade and Rondo 2 year contracts) they decided to go with the youth movement, and he was traded to Minnesota and then was traded to Philly. Miami is the only team he's picked to play in, the other places were out of his control.

If Butler and Miami extended 1 more year, he'd miss by 1 year of being in Miami half of his career (8 years out of 17). Even if Miami doesn't extend him another year, at the end of his player's option year he'll have spent more time in Miami than Chicago.

On the value thing... his new last year at 37 may not be a nearly the bad deal you're thinking about as it should be the 2nd year the salary cap increased 10% with the new media deal (no big jump like last time, they're doing a 10% smoothing cap increase) so just the salary cap (not aprons) could be 25-30 million more by then. Bobby Marks is predicting the first 100 million dollar a year contract in 2032 and possibly before then.

“There are provisions in the CBA where the salary cap is smoothed to a 10 percent annual increase. It’s not like the prior years, like 2016, where TV revenue came in and all of a sudden the cap spiked,” Marks said.

“There’s provisions in there as far as what happens if the TV deal doubles. One of the provisions is it would trigger a cause where the players’ association would have the right to negotiate new language about how you can phase in that money.

“When you look at it, it’s probably unrealistic that we would see a $100 million player in the next five or six years.”

Marks said that there is projected to be a jump of about 3.7 percent this offseason, and then it should go up about 10 percent a year from there given the new TV deals and the smoothing provisions.

“When you take that into account, you get to a $100 million-a-year player in the 2032-33 season. Maybe a little sooner, but I don’t see it happening within the next five years,” he said.

https://nypost.com/2024/05/02/sports/nba-superstars-will-make-over-100m-per-year-in-under-a-decade/

For Miami's sake, they better lock up Bam as soon as possible on his 2nd extension, he'll end up being a bargain during that contract because of how much the cap is going to go up!
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#334 » by Flash4thewin » Fri May 3, 2024 2:03 pm

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Thats one of those in "theory" it makes sense but in reality thats not how it works. Then you need to factor you are dealing with Morey so it will be 2 second round draft picks and a free Philly sub coupon with the purchase of a Philly Sub combo for Butler. We reduce our salary and dont pay the tax, and get a Philly cheese steak. I know we are tax adverse but thats not happening.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#335 » by Heat3 » Fri May 3, 2024 2:07 pm

contract wrote:
Heat3 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:When you hear UD saying Bam might have to play some PF with a Center maybe this a a compromise. When i hear UD saying things like this in the media it could be something he’s heard from the horses mouth which is Riley.


And Spo will file that idea in the trash.

I remember Riley used make statements about playing a more traditional big man game with Whiteside. Instead his ass got benched for not being as versatile as Bam. At the end of the day Spo is the coach and will decide how the team will play.

Spo has his basketball theories that he wants to prove will work no matter what. He will stubbornly stick to them. Like the zone against the Celtics.

Whiteside was out of the NBA for a 2nd time by age 33, and it wasn't due to his health. Whiteside was another example of Pat becoming delusional about a player. He thought Whiteside was Patrick Ewing. He wasn't. And his piss poor attitude made him toxic.


Think what you want about him, but he had a +10 year career. Being out at 33 used to be a normal thing in sports. Not getting new long term max contracts in mid-30s. Riley would have gotten a lot more out of him than Spo did due to his preferred style of play imo.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#336 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 2:08 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#337 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 2:10 pm

I’m all about building around Bam better.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#338 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 2:11 pm

If you don’t extend Butler you have to trade him someplace that will. I still want to extend him but that could be my heart speaking
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#339 » by dubasilva » Fri May 3, 2024 2:16 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
dubasilva wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Here’s why i’m on the fence with Niko. He’s a stretch 4 so that’s definitely a plus next to Bam but don’t feel he’s rugged enough to be a pure compliment to Bam or to get back to Heat physical style of play. Niko is too busy playing like a guard when Bam needs another guy who can do the dirty work like rebound, screen, and give him a break defensively. Crowder and Tucker did a lot of those things and we saw great success with those two. Desperately been missing that element next to Bam.


That's why I think Nico should be a 3. Move Bam to the 4th, and draft or sign a C that is big and plays defense. Some intimidator.

Niko’s game and overall makeup does project as a big point SF type like a Toni Kukoc. I just don’t know if he can handle it defensively and we are already crowded at that spot with Butler and JJJ. If this was old school basketball he would fall in line with the Kukoc’s and Schrempf’s at SF.


I think we need to get bigger. Our C is 6'9". Bam can guard almost anyone. If JB stays, he can play the 2, and move to 3 during the games.

Nico's defense improved, but I still think he's a bit soft on defense, especially when defending bigger guys. If we can bring a guy like Steven Adams for example, move Bam to the 4, Nico to 3, and Jimmy to 2... then we need to find a dog PG.

Just dreaming here. We all know Spo loves small-ball basketball.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem 

Post#340 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri May 3, 2024 2:17 pm

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If Butler facilitates a Mitchell deal then i can live with this.

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