Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 2 : We Running it Back.. (WITH MITCHELL!)

[Flash4thewin]

This is the last year to sell high on Butler. If we can’t get Mitchell we have to seriously consider cashing in to build for the future. If not we are going to be stuck paying an aging Butler till 37 as a treadmill play in team.

Im not sure what his value is to be honest other than he means more to us that what we can get back in a trade. Dont forget after next season he becomes a 50 million dollar expiring contract so just in that alone you have value as long as we are willing to absorb a contract or two.

[MettaWorldPanda]

This is the last year to sell high on Butler. If we can’t get Mitchell we have to seriously consider cashing in to build for the future. If not we are going to be stuck paying an aging Butler till 37 as a treadmill play in team.

Im not sure what his value is to be honest other than he means more to us that what we can get back in a trade. Dont forget after next season he becomes a 50 million dollar expiring contract so just in that alone you have value as long as we are willing to absorb a contract or two.

I don’t honestly think he’s getting traded unless he demands out.

[AirP.]

This is the last year to sell high on Butler. If we can’t get Mitchell we have to seriously consider cashing in to build for the future. If not we are going to be stuck paying an aging Butler till 37 as a treadmill play in team.

Im not sure what his value is to be honest other than he means more to us that what we can get back in a trade. Dont forget after next season he becomes a 50 million dollar expiring contract so just in that alone you have value as long as we are willing to absorb a contract or two.

I guess I don't get it, I do get he's taken too many games off including this last season, including a death in his family and averaged 21 points with a 62% TS% and a 129 ORTG but I just don't get wanting to trade your top talent and start over during Bam's prime. Butler's had his best TS% and ORTG years of his career the last 2 seasons and people are done with him? There's a good chance he's going to be about as good as he's been for the next 3-4 years if he wants to keep putting in the work which he's done all his career so why would it stop now?

it just seems very odd to want to move on without having that new #1 guy already on the roster. At this point you're basically saying you'd rather have money wise... Robinson and Rozier or Robinson and Herro over Butler for the next few years which is insane. You get your main guys, then you find the right cheap role-players except Miami has decided to overpay role-players. For less than Herro's being paid you could have retained Strus and Vincent who were 40% of the starters from last year's finals team.

Potential can really screw over rosters, and I think it has done that with the Herro asset.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

Nice to see Rozier not in a neck brace lol. Looks like he’s developing an offseason relationship with Herro.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

This is the last year to sell high on Butler. If we can’t get Mitchell we have to seriously consider cashing in to build for the future. If not we are going to be stuck paying an aging Butler till 37 as a treadmill play in team.

Im not sure what his value is to be honest other than he means more to us that what we can get back in a trade. Dont forget after next season he becomes a 50 million dollar expiring contract so just in that alone you have value as long as we are willing to absorb a contract or two.

I guess I don't get it, I do get he's taken too many games off including this last season, including a death in his family and averaged 21 points with a 62% TS% and a 129 ORTG but I just don't get wanting to trade your top talent and start over during Bam's prime. Butler's had his best TS% and ORTG years of his career the last 2 seasons and people are done with him? There's a good chance he's going to be about as good as he's been for the next 3-4 years if he wants to keep putting in the work which he's done all his career so why would it stop now?

it just seems very odd to want to move on without having that new #1 guy already on the roster. At this point you're basically saying you'd rather have money wise... Robinson and Rozier or Robinson and Herro over Butler for the next few years which is insane. You get your main guys, then you find the right cheap role-players except Miami has decided to overpay role-players. For less than Herro's being paid you could have retained Strus and Vincent who were 40% of the starters from last year's finals team.

Potential can really screw over rosters, and I think it has done that with the Herro asset.

At some point the front office has to do their job and get them help.

[AirP.]

Im not sure what his value is to be honest other than he means more to us that what we can get back in a trade. Dont forget after next season he becomes a 50 million dollar expiring contract so just in that alone you have value as long as we are willing to absorb a contract or two.

I guess I don't get it, I do get he's taken too many games off including this last season, including a death in his family and averaged 21 points with a 62% TS% and a 129 ORTG but I just don't get wanting to trade your top talent and start over during Bam's prime. Butler's had his best TS% and ORTG years of his career the last 2 seasons and people are done with him? There's a good chance he's going to be about as good as he's been for the next 3-4 years if he wants to keep putting in the work which he's done all his career so why would it stop now?

it just seems very odd to want to move on without having that new #1 guy already on the roster. At this point you're basically saying you'd rather have money wise... Robinson and Rozier or Robinson and Herro over Butler for the next few years which is insane. You get your main guys, then you find the right cheap role-players except Miami has decided to overpay role-players. For less than Herro's being paid you could have retained Strus and Vincent who were 40% of the starters from last year's finals team.

Potential can really screw over rosters, and I think it has done that with the Herro asset.

At some point the front office has to do their job and get them help.

They need to quit overpaying their own talent.

Go all in to get as good of higher tier talent as you can for your top 2-3 players and always have players developing so you can allow some midlevel players to walk vs overpaying them. Let's just look at Strus, he beat out Robinson, was a much better defender than Robinson yet even as the cap has gone up, they weren't even considering paying him as much as Robinson who is 2 years older than Strus.

[twix2500]

Im not sure what his value is to be honest other than he means more to us that what we can get back in a trade. Dont forget after next season he becomes a 50 million dollar expiring contract so just in that alone you have value as long as we are willing to absorb a contract or two.

I guess I don't get it, I do get he's taken too many games off including this last season, including a death in his family and averaged 21 points with a 62% TS% and a 129 ORTG but I just don't get wanting to trade your top talent and start over during Bam's prime. Butler's had his best TS% and ORTG years of his career the last 2 seasons and people are done with him? There's a good chance he's going to be about as good as he's been for the next 3-4 years if he wants to keep putting in the work which he's done all his career so why would it stop now?

it just seems very odd to want to move on without having that new #1 guy already on the roster. At this point you're basically saying you'd rather have money wise... Robinson and Rozier or Robinson and Herro over Butler for the next few years which is insane. You get your main guys, then you find the right cheap role-players except Miami has decided to overpay role-players. For less than Herro's being paid you could have retained Strus and Vincent who were 40% of the starters from last year's finals team.

Potential can really screw over rosters, and I think it has done that with the Herro asset.

At some point the front office has to do their job and get them help.

The point of moving Butler, if they did, is to gain the assets and room to acquire a #1. The new cap rules makes it too hard to find a number one when you are paying players max that are not a #1. Its the same reason why the Heat let Zo go to New Jersey. However, the only reason to trade Butler is about the extension. How does Butler and Heat feel about not getting an extension done. Heat might want to resign Butler at 37 but not for the max. You just witness Butler body breaking down at 34 years old. He will be 35 next season the 36 the season afterwards, is it not reasonable to expect Butler not to be a #1 anymore?

[AirP.]

I guess I don't get it, I do get he's taken too many games off including this last season, including a death in his family and averaged 21 points with a 62% TS% and a 129 ORTG but I just don't get wanting to trade your top talent and start over during Bam's prime. Butler's had his best TS% and ORTG years of his career the last 2 seasons and people are done with him? There's a good chance he's going to be about as good as he's been for the next 3-4 years if he wants to keep putting in the work which he's done all his career so why would it stop now?

it just seems very odd to want to move on without having that new #1 guy already on the roster. At this point you're basically saying you'd rather have money wise... Robinson and Rozier or Robinson and Herro over Butler for the next few years which is insane. You get your main guys, then you find the right cheap role-players except Miami has decided to overpay role-players. For less than Herro's being paid you could have retained Strus and Vincent who were 40% of the starters from last year's finals team.

Potential can really screw over rosters, and I think it has done that with the Herro asset.

At some point the front office has to do their job and get them help.

The point of moving Butler, if they did, is to gain the assets and room to acquire a #1. The new cap rules makes it too hard to find a number one when you are paying players max that are not a #1. Its the same reason why the Heat let Zo go to New Jersey. However, the only reason to trade Butler is about the extension. How does Butler and Heat feel about not getting an extension done. Heat might want to resign Butler at 37 but not for the max. You just witness Butler body breaking down at 34 years old. He will be 35 next season the 36 the season afterwards, is it not reasonable to expect Butler not to be a #1 anymore?

Moving Butler doesn't mean a higher level #1 option is coming anytime soon and before Butler showed up, it seemed Miami's plan was to go after Giannis in 2021 (the reason why they didn't trade for CP3 in the summer of 2019 after acquiring Butler) which would have just been a bad offseason for Miami once again.

[twix2500]

At some point the front office has to do their job and get them help.

The point of moving Butler, if they did, is to gain the assets and room to acquire a #1. The new cap rules makes it too hard to find a number one when you are paying players max that are not a #1. Its the same reason why the Heat let Zo go to New Jersey. However, the only reason to trade Butler is about the extension. How does Butler and Heat feel about not getting an extension done. Heat might want to resign Butler at 37 but not for the max. You just witness Butler body breaking down at 34 years old. He will be 35 next season the 36 the season afterwards, is it not reasonable to expect Butler not to be a #1 anymore?

Moving Butler doesn't mean a higher level #1 option is coming anytime soon and before Butler showed up, it seemed Miami's plan was to go after Giannis in 2021 (the reason why they didn't trade for CP3 in the summer of 2019 after acquiring Butler) which would have just been a bad offseason for Miami once again.

Because something is not 100% is not a reason to not better position yourself. But whats almost certian is Butler's physical decline and the Heat are not winning a chip unless they find a #1. The whole purpose is to better position yourself. The cap situation is not the same as when they were going after Giannis. Teams have to change their strategies on building their roster.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

It's becoming increasingly clear that this year's championship is wide open for anyone to take.

Sucks we couldn't get our **** together last offseason. We could be in the Finals right now, against the Mavs (presumably)... with a real chance of finally getting another ring.

[carnageta]

Remember how a week ago there were posts about following the 'Pacers blueprint'

[carnageta]

It's becoming increasingly clear that this year's championship is wide open for anyone to take.

Sucks we couldn't get our **** together last offseason. We could be in the Finals right now, against the Mavs (presumably)... with a real chance of finally getting another ring.

It's been wide open since Lebron went West and KD left the Warriors. It's been 5 years now.

2020 Lakers
21' Bucks
22' Warriors
23' Denver

All new teams winning.

[twix2500]

Remember how a week ago there were posts about following the 'Pacers blueprint'

Every year someone says that about a team. I remember people were on here was praising the Hawks for building the right way and not the Heats way.

[carnageta]

Herro for Garland doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, I think the fit would be worse with Rozier still on board.


I'm all for keeping Herro, unless we can exchange him for a true upgrade - which isn't trading him for another non-all star undersized combo guard.

[SA37]

Remember how a week ago there were posts about following the 'Pacers blueprint'

I mean, they are missing Mathurin and now Haliburton. In the last two games, they took the Celtics down to the wire. Impressive.

[AirP.]

The point of moving Butler, if they did, is to gain the assets and room to acquire a #1. The new cap rules makes it too hard to find a number one when you are paying players max that are not a #1. Its the same reason why the Heat let Zo go to New Jersey. However, the only reason to trade Butler is about the extension. How does Butler and Heat feel about not getting an extension done. Heat might want to resign Butler at 37 but not for the max. You just witness Butler body breaking down at 34 years old. He will be 35 next season the 36 the season afterwards, is it not reasonable to expect Butler not to be a #1 anymore?

Moving Butler doesn't mean a higher level #1 option is coming anytime soon and before Butler showed up, it seemed Miami's plan was to go after Giannis in 2021 (the reason why they didn't trade for CP3 in the summer of 2019 after acquiring Butler) which would have just been a bad offseason for Miami once again.

Because something is not 100% is not a reason to not better position yourself. But whats almost certian is Butler's physical decline and the Heat are not winning a chip unless they find a #1. The whole purpose is to better position yourself. The cap situation is not the same as when they were going after Giannis. Teams have to change their strategies on building their roster.

Maybe he does decline but he's had the most efficient offensive seasons of his career at age 33 and 34, he keeps his body in shape so to me even if there's a drop off won't be that drastic. I keep hearing he's not a #1 but this roster who people seem to think isn't all that talented has made the finals a few times the last decade with I guess what you'd call a #2 as the first option.

Let's say Herro is moved for just assets, so we are just dealing with possible knowns. Butler, Bam and Rozier are all capable of scoring 20 ppg, Robinson is a nice spacer who is becoming a better scorer later in his career, Jovic and Jaquez Jr both scored at a 14+ points per 36 rate with nothing really ran for them so there's hope one of them can get up to around a 20 points per36 scoring rate and of course there's Martin who can be retained and possibly get back to being more consistent. To me, you keep trying to win like Miami usually does, your younger players keep getting better where they will be your possible assets to move (especially if they're good in the playoffs), don't throw away your 1sts and you'll be ready to send out multiple 1sts with some more proven younger players to try to get your new #1. If you're not going to tank and with Bam on the roster you probably can't tank enough to get a top pick, just win and more importantly, DON'T OVERPAY MIDLEVEL TALENT. I'm still in shock of Waiters getting a multi-year contract in Miami.

[AirP.]

Herro for Garland doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, I think the fit would be worse with Rozier still on board.


I'm all for keeping Herro, unless we can exchange him for a true upgrade - which isn't trading him for another non-all star undersized combo guard.

You can't give 30 mil a year for a one-way player who is hunted when playing defense when you have 3 other players who can score 20 a night in Butler, Bam and Rozier and you expect to give Jovic and Jaquez Jr more opportunities. Either cash out Herro for assets or try to upgrade a position with a consolidation trade. The only reason you keep Herro (which probably means moving Rozier to scoring 6th man because that's a horrific starting defensive backcourt) would be to up his trade value.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[carnageta]

Herro for Garland doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, I think the fit would be worse with Rozier still on board.


I'm all for keeping Herro, unless we can exchange him for a true upgrade - which isn't trading him for another non-all star undersized combo guard.

You can't give 30 mil a year for a one-way player who is hunted when playing defense when you have 3 other players who can score 20 a night in Butler, Bam and Rozier and you expect to give Jovic and Jaquez Jr more opportunities. Either cash out Herro for assets or try to upgrade a position with a consolidation trade. The only reason you keep Herro (which probably means moving Rozier to scoring 6th man because that's a horrific starting defensive backcourt) would be to up his trade value.

I think one of Herro / Rozier need to go in order to have an optimal fit. I don't think Garland makes sense for us, unless we're also flipping Rozier for a bigger player of equal caliber. Garland / Rozier makes for a small backcourt and even if we have Rozier come off of the bench as the 6th man he will still log in a ton of minutes alongside Garland, which defences will feast on (especially during the playoffs).

Darius Garland makes 8m more than Herro. Garland will make more than Bam Adebayo and will be our second highest paid player. He's not even that much of an upgrade over Herro, if any at all. If we are going to trade Herro I would much rather it be for a good-sized wing / pf. I.e. Jerami Grant, OG Anunoby, etc. Garland doesn't move the needle imo, and it still leaves us with the exact same problems we currently have, all while costing 8m per season.

[carnageta]

Remember how a week ago there were posts about following the 'Pacers blueprint'

I mean, they are missing Mathurin and now Haliburton. In the last two games, they took the Celtics down to the wire. Impressive.

Everyone was injured these playoffs lol. It's not about how close you got. They lost all 4 games. They barely squeaked by a depleted Knicks team. They likely wouldn't have made it past the first round if Milwaukee wasn't missing their best player.


Just found it was pretty 'forced' with the whole 'follow their blueprint' narratives lol. Just didn't make any sense to me.