Hassan Whiteside: Road To The Max II

[gom]

Gom, do you have a fast link to a possible Whiteside sallery post of yours? I trust your numbers more than what I stumble upon when googeling.

Here is a composite of all my salary calculations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/109xNg2itg8dA6-368tkFG9_8RD-9z-ckXIGBaXsgM34/edit?usp=sharing

You should know that there are no official numbers on salary cap (and hence max salaries) until July. The salaries are adjusted after the numbers are published and (as we know all too well) transactions can be abolished by the league if they are later found to be illegal (even if they were not at the time of the transaction.)

Whiteside's max is $21,564,143. He loses very little by signing for $20, in comparison to other states (not Texas though and Dallas may go all in for him), because of state taxes. We may lose him because of Juwan Howard's farts though.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Gom, do you have a fast link to a possible Whiteside sallery post of yours? I trust your numbers more than what I stumble upon when googeling.

Here is a composite of all my salary calculations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/109xNg2itg8dA6-368tkFG9_8RD-9z-ckXIGBaXsgM34/edit?usp=sharing

You should know that there are no official numbers on salary cap (and hence max salaries) until July. The salaries are adjusted after the numbers are published and (as we know all too well) transactions can be abolished by the league if they are later found to be illegal (even if they were not at the time of the transaction.)

Whiteside's max is $21,564,143. He loses very little by signing for $20, in comparison to other states (not Texas though and Dallas may go all in for him), because of state taxes. We may lose him because of Juwan Howard's farts though.

[KingDavid]

Gom, your destiny is calling...

[RexBoyWonder]

If you're against giving Whiteside the Max (which is a totally legitimate opinion considering his playoff run IMO), your argument should be a very simple one - take the same 21 Mil $ and show how you can get a player or players that will make us a better team.

In an imaginary vacuum, I might feel iffy about a Whiteside max. But in real life, this summer, I see no better path for us to take.
So we need to Max him, and hope for the best (improvement and mental stability).

[caliban]

Gom, do you have a fast link to a possible Whiteside sallery post of yours? I trust your numbers more than what I stumble upon when googeling.

Here is a composite of all my salary calculations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/109xNg2itg8dA6-368tkFG9_8RD-9z-ckXIGBaXsgM34/edit?usp=sharing

You should know that there are no official numbers on salary cap (and hence max salaries) until July. The salaries are adjusted after the numbers are published and (as we know all too well) transactions can be abolished by the league if they are later found to be illegal (even if they were not at the time of the transaction.)

Whiteside's max is $21,564,143. He loses very little by signing for $20, in comparison to other states (not Texas though and Dallas may go all in for him), because of state taxes. We may lose him because of Juwan Howard's farts though.

Tanks a lot Gom! This is great stuff. I'm not very familiar with American state taxes but what is our competitive tax advantage here, 15 % /2 for away games?

Riley need to plug that opening, it's a real disadvantage in FA negotiations. We could lose out on Durant because of this

[Rich2Hassan]

It's strange seeing most of the posters whom were bashing Hassan and calling him a scrub and not worthy of a Max deal during the regular season now on board. But i'm going to sip this tea, it's quite refreshing. But welcome, This is going to be an interesting summer!

[cyclix]

Someone will offer Whiteside $100 mil, and rightfully so

[gom]

Someone will offer Whiteside $100 mil, and rightfully so

How? That would violate the CBA!

[HIF]

Someone will offer Whiteside $100 mil, and rightfully so

How? That would violate the CBA!

Probably be Cleveland or the lakers then.

[gom]

Hassan needs some help with Call of Duty:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/youngwhiteside/status/734493226904788997[/tweet]

[Hoops23]

its easy to say its not our money.. pay the man...

You all need to consider that Miami is limited with its cap space which around $38m.

I doubt if Miami will have the same record if Bosh wasnt playing last season. I though Joe Johnson save us the season who fill some of the load with Bosh out. And there is a possibility CB might not play again. Miami with its current roster will not make it far in the standings next season with Wade and JJ getting older.

Now ok, pay the man. Give Hassan $20m, then tell Wade, you know Hassan is our most important FA and priority, lol, and let say Wade agrees to lower his salary, say $15m per yr. Then what is left is arround $3m which is not enough to sign Deng. Then the roster is even bad compare to last season.

I love to have Hassan, Wade, Deng back next season but Miami is limited to its cap space. Dumping Dragic will weaken our PG position.

My point is, its easy to say pay the man, its not our money.. But it is more than that. Sorry but it will be stupid for someone think that way.

[QUIZ]

its easy to say its not our money.. pay the man...

You all need to consider that Miami is limited with its cap space which around $38m.

I doubt if Miami will have the same record if Bosh wasnt playing last season. I though Joe Johnson save us the season who fill some of the load with Bosh out. And there is a possibility CB might not play again. Miami with its current roster will not make it far in the standings next season with Wade and JJ getting older.

Now ok, pay the man. Give Hassan $20m, then tell Wade, you know Hassan is our most important FA and priority, lol, and let say Wade agrees to lower his salary, say $15m per yr. Then what is left is arround $3m which is not enough to sign Deng. Then the roster is even bad compare to last season.

I love to have Hassan, Wade, Deng back next season but Miami is limited to its cap space.

My point is, its easy to say pay the man, its not our money.. But it is more than that. Sorry but it will be stupid for someone think that way.

Hassan is the priority, unless you want to count LeBron who isn't going anywhere Hassan is the 2nd best unrestricted free agent in this class.

http://hoopshype.com/2016/05/03/nba-free-agency-2016-the-top-players/

The priority need to be the retain the asset first and foremost. It's not like the contract would be untradable in the future. Hassan needs to be the priority even if that means losing Deng and starting Justise in his place next season. With the Bosh situation up in the air and this free agency class being much weaker than expected we essentially have another year where we need to try and position ourselves to be as flexible as possible.

This season we'll see what Goran is made of when he doesn't come into the season out of shape, we'll see what ends up happening with CB, and then in the event that Bosh doesn't return we'll go into the 2017 offseason with $70mill in cap space assuming we resign Hassan, and we'd then have the option to unload Goran in the event that we feel like we could get Chris Paul for example.

There's a lot of moving parts but this offseason shouldn't be that active, I expect a lot of teams trading players into free cap space in exchange for assets as well as a bunch of role players like Harrison Barnes getting massively overpaid.

For us:
1. Lock in Hassan
2. Get a feel for where KD's head is going into free agency. Will he sign long term? Does he instead want a 1+1 to become a free agent in 2017 along with Westbrook which would earn him much more money? Doesn't really matter, we'll get in a room with him as the plan has always been.
3. Resign Wade
4. See where Deng's heads at. If he wants 3yr $45mill that I've seen thrown around about him than we might as well say good bye but he likes it here and he was quoted saying that money isn't everything so we'll see. He's a luxury more than anything though.
5. Lock in TJ
6. See if JJ wants to take out $2.9mill exception.

[Hoops23]

^^assuming Hassan gets $20m. Then how can Miami sign Wade and Deng back?
IMO, Wade will ask at least $15m per yr. Not enough to keep Deng. Not really an easy situation.. Maybe JJ gets what is left with the cap space.

Winslow may start in Dengs place but it weakens the bench. Bosh is already out and we dont even know if he's coming back. We know that Winslow outside shot is limited.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Deng is gone. I appreciate how he performed in the 2nd half of this season, and he's always been a true professional, but at his age, he is a win now player, and this isn't a win now team. The only thing that would make us a contender next season is LeBron or KD coming, and that obviously replaces Deng anyways.

Agreed that Hassan has to be retained purely for the fact that even if he doesn't stick long term, he's still a tremendous asset.

[gom]

As I posted before, these salaries work:

Whiteside: 4/89,000,000
Wade: 3/40,856,993 (anything more than a 3 year contract invokes the over 37 rule, spreading the amount of the last year across the other 3)
Deng: 3/31,927,150
Sign Joe for the Room Exception: $2.898 million

One question that comes up is why would Whiteside play for a starting salary of $20,000,000 (which is 4/89) rather than $21,564,143 to which he is entitled. That's where "jock tax" comes into play. Jock tax is essentially the state tax paid when you earn money by performing in a state. For example, California has a 13.3% state tax rather than Florida's 0% state tax. If Hassan spent 100% of his 170 NBA working days in California (Lakers for example), his $21,564,143 would become $18,696,112, which is significantly less than the $20,000,000 the Heat could pay. On the other hand, Jock Tax is not that simple. Some states charge athletes from other states when they perform in their state, so $20,000,000 is *never* $20,000,000. For at least 8 games a year (or 8/170 of their salary), Heat players must pay California taxes.

California: 13.3% (Clippers, Warriors, Kings, Lakers)
Oregon: 9.9% (Portland Trailblazers)
Minnesota: 9.85% (Timberwolves)
DC: 8.95% (Wizards)
New York: 8.82% (Knicks, Nets)
Wisconsin: 7.65% (Bucks)
Louisiana: 6% (Pelicans)
Georgia: 6% (Hawks)
North Carolina: 5.75% (Hornets)
Ohio: 5.39% (Cavaliers)
Oklahoma: 5.25% (Thunder)
Massachusetts: 5.15% (Celtics)
Utah: 5% (Utah Jazz)
Colorado: 4.63 (Denver Nuggets)
Arizona: 4.54% (Phoenix Suns)
Michigan: 4.25% (Pistons)
Illinois: 3.75% (Bulls)
Indiana: 3.3% (Pacers)
Pennsylvania: 3.07% (76ers)

Florida: Heat, Magic
Texas: Spurs, Mavericks, Rockets
Tennessee: Grizzlies

Raptors: Canadian tax

Here is a site that purports to calculate the tax and rough change in income:

http://athletetaxes.com/

Comparing Hassan's maximum salary in every city. Reduce the take home pay by the following amounts:

Atlanta Hawks: $400,000
Boston Celtics: $293,700
Brooklyn Nets: $1,104,000
Charlotte Hornets: $368,600
Chicago Bulls: $722,900
Cleveland Cavaliers: $565,500
Dallas Mavericks: $0
Denver Nuggets: $228,600
Detroit Pistons: $181,100
Golden State Warriors: $1,300,200
Houston Rockets: $0
Indiana Pacers: $265,900
Los Angeles Clippers: $1,300,200
Los Angeles Lakers: $1,300,200
Memphis Grizzlies: $400,100
Miami Heat: $0
Milwaukee Bucks: $604,100
Minnesota Timberwolves: $879,300
New Orleans Pelicans: $399,400
New York Knickerbockers: $1,104,000
Oklahoma City Thunder: $306,000
Orlando Magic: $0
Philadelphia 76ers: $531,600
Phoenix Suns: $216,600
Portland Trail Blazers: $887,400
Sacramento Kings: $1,300,200
San Antonio Spurs: $0
Toronto Raptors: $1,301,200
Utah Jazz: $275,000
Washington Wizards: $1,830,700

[heat4life]

As I posted before, these salaries work:

Whiteside: 4/89,000,000
Wade: 3/40,856,993
Deng: 3/31,927,150
Sign Joe for the Room Exception: $2.898 million

One question that comes up is why would Whiteside play for a starting salary of $20,000,000 (which is 4/89) rather than $21,564,143 to which he is entitled. That's where "jock tax" comes into play. Jock tax is essentially the state tax paid when you earn money by performing in a state. For example, California has a 13.3% state tax rather than Florida's 0% state tax. If Hassan spent 100% of his 170 NBA working days in California (Lakers for example), his $21,564,143 would become $18,696,112, which is significantly less than the $20,000,000 the Heat could pay. On the other hand, Jock Tax is not that simple. Some states charge athletes from other states when they perform in their state, so $20,000,000 is *never* $20,000,000. For at least 8 games a year (or 8/170 of their salary), Heat players must pay California taxes.

California: 13.3% (Clippers, Warriors, Kings, Lakers)
Oregon: 9.9% (Portland Trailblazers)
Minnesota: 9.85% (Timberwolves)
DC: 8.95% (Wizards)
New York: 8.82% (Knicks, Nets)
Wisconsin: 7.65% (Bucks)
Louisiana: 6% (Pelicans)
Georgia: 6% (Hawks)
North Carolina: 5.75% (Hornets)
Ohio: 5.39% (Cavaliers)
Oklahoma: 5.25% (Thunder)
Massachusetts: 5.15% (Celtics)
Utah: 5% (Utah Jazz)
Colorado: 4.63 (Denver Nuggets)
Arizona: 4.54% (Phoenix Suns)
Michigan: 4.25% (Pistons)
Illinois: 3.75% (Bulls)
Indiana: 3.3% (Pacers)
Pennsylvania: 3.07% (76ers)

Florida: Heat, Magic
Texas: Spurs, Mavericks, Rockets
Tennessee: Grizzlies

Raptors: Canadian tax

I could see Hassan taking that kind of deal to help Miami with a player opt-out after year 2 IF he really wants to stay. He will get a bigger offer somewhere else for sure so Miami's biggest sale pitch is the 7.5% yearly raises. Dallas and Houston (two likely Hassan bidders) can use the "State Tax" card as well.

At the end, we are talking about Wade accepting a $13 a year deal (average) to make this work. Will he do that after the season he just had? Does Miami even attempts to bring that up to him? Would a 4th year make it more acceptable since it would take him into his 38th birthday?

[gom]

As I posted before, these salaries work:

Whiteside: 4/89,000,000
Wade: 3/40,856,993
Deng: 3/31,927,150
Sign Joe for the Room Exception: $2.898 million

One question that comes up is why would Whiteside play for a starting salary of $20,000,000 (which is 4/89) rather than $21,564,143 to which he is entitled. That's where "jock tax" comes into play. Jock tax is essentially the state tax paid when you earn money by performing in a state. For example, California has a 13.3% state tax rather than Florida's 0% state tax. If Hassan spent 100% of his 170 NBA working days in California (Lakers for example), his $21,564,143 would become $18,696,112, which is significantly less than the $20,000,000 the Heat could pay. On the other hand, Jock Tax is not that simple. Some states charge athletes from other states when they perform in their state, so $20,000,000 is *never* $20,000,000. For at least 8 games a year (or 8/170 of their salary), Heat players must pay California taxes.

California: 13.3% (Clippers, Warriors, Kings, Lakers)
Oregon: 9.9% (Portland Trailblazers)
Minnesota: 9.85% (Timberwolves)
DC: 8.95% (Wizards)
New York: 8.82% (Knicks, Nets)
Wisconsin: 7.65% (Bucks)
Louisiana: 6% (Pelicans)
Georgia: 6% (Hawks)
North Carolina: 5.75% (Hornets)
Ohio: 5.39% (Cavaliers)
Oklahoma: 5.25% (Thunder)
Massachusetts: 5.15% (Celtics)
Utah: 5% (Utah Jazz)
Colorado: 4.63 (Denver Nuggets)
Arizona: 4.54% (Phoenix Suns)
Michigan: 4.25% (Pistons)
Illinois: 3.75% (Bulls)
Indiana: 3.3% (Pacers)
Pennsylvania: 3.07% (76ers)

Florida: Heat, Magic
Texas: Spurs, Mavericks, Rockets
Tennessee: Grizzlies

Raptors: Canadian tax

I could see Hassan taking that kind of deal to help Miami with a player opt-out after year 2 IF he really wants to stay. He will get a bigger offer somewhere else for sure so Miami's biggest sale pitch is the 7.5% yearly raises. Dallas and Houston (two likely Hassan bidders) can use the "State Tax" card as well.

At the end, we are talking about Wade accepting a $13 a year deal (average) to make this work. Will he do that after the season he just had? Does Miami even attempts to bring that up to him? Would a 4th year make it more acceptable since it would take him into his 38th birthday?

You may be able to get away with a 3 year deal because of Wade's play, but a fourth year will surely invoke the over 36 rule:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58

The last year(s) would be spread over the "productive" years for cap consideration.

Dallas is rumored to be looking seriously at Dwight Howard (using Parsons to recruit him). Rockets are a bigger problem, but Miami is a much more appealing city, imnsho.

For what it's worth, I think Wade's salary is the hardest component. My calculation for 3/40.9 works out to this:

$12,668,835
$13,618,998
$14,569,160

The trouble of course is that those numbers should be inverted. Just as 12.7M is very low for Wade now, 14.6M will be high for him in 3 years.

[DayofMourning]

Good stuff gom. Glad to have such an avid capologist on board.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Hassan isn't worth the Max as a player.

But considering the market is starving for Centers.... some team will give him a lot of money.

So we're stuck with him.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

^^assuming Hassan gets $20m. Then how can Miami sign Wade and Deng back?
IMO, Wade will ask at least $15m per yr. Not enough to keep Deng. Not really an easy situation.. Maybe JJ gets what is left with the cap space.

Winslow may start in Dengs place but it weakens the bench. Bosh is already out and we dont even know if he's coming back. We know that Winslow outside shot is limited.

We don't need Deng and he's getting old.

We need more garbagemen on this Heat team. Guys who will grab boards and fight in the paint.