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Winslow

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Re: Winslow 

Post#41 » by gom » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:39 pm

• On Justise Winslow, who was limited to 18 games because of shoulder surgery: “Justise coming off the summer that he had. If was able to play a full season, not just the shoulder injury but the wrist injury coming out of preseason, would have had a major impact on this team. I thought he had a terrific summer, along with J-Rich. Everybody you talk to coming out of Orlando, they were two of the top players coming out of the Summer League. People were really commenting, ‘they followed up an impressive rookie year with a great summer league. Not good, but great summer league.

“And then a full summer of development. Both were ready to make that next jump. And both got hurt, unfortunately. I haven’t forgotten the potential and what we can build on this summer. Justise brings a tremendous amount of versatility, of defense, of toughness, of winning plays, of things we emphasize. Justise fills in a lot of those intangible gaps; he knows how to impact winning. That certainly could have made an impact.”

Spoelstra said Winslow is “way ahead of schedule” in his recovery from January shoulder surgery, though he is not yet cleared for contact work.

• But can Winslow be a three and D player? “Yes and he can create that game. People get caught up in so much of the wrong narrative. We are not trying to develop Justise Winslow to become Chris Mullin. Totally different basketball player. If you want to talk about three-and-D, one thing he can do is impact defensively and take away threes because of his ability to defend one through five and that’s unique in this league.

“He can generate threes for you offensively because he puts a lot of pressure in the paint, off the dribble, in transition. He’s an aggressive, bruising, physical type of player and he sees the floor. That helps create your three-point game.

I don’t want the focus on how many threes he makes. He will make enough. He is dedicated enough to work on them. It will be about getting into world class shape, getting healthy so he can make all the plays he needs that impact and help your team win. It will be my job to put him in spots where he can be efficient and find small victories and build on those right away. I thought we would have. Particularly if he didn’t have the wrist injury, he would have been an efficient offensive player. It might have looked differently than people would have wanted it to be.

“He will find a way to help your team. We would have found a way to put him into his strengths and build on some of the weaknesses. His weaknesses, whatever the perceived ones are, will not be our focus this summer. It will be his strengths and being in world class upper echelon shape and health will be the priority.”


http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article145007669.html

Yeah, I think I'm going with Spo's pov. Sorry, RealGMers.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#42 » by rate_ » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:32 pm

Still believe in him. Let's wait to see how he does next season.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#43 » by KingDavid » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:33 pm

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:Winslow has no value right now. He was statistically the worst player in the NBA until he got hurt. Getting hurt saved him from further ruining his confidence.

The guys value is on the floor, should of traded him earlier. Now best bet is to hold on to him and hope he becomes a good player somehow.


boston was offering 4 firsts for winslow. i'm not sure we could get 1 first for him today. we have no choice but be patient and hope he can raise his stock, but man, he was terrible last year.

I doubt any of those firsts were from Brooklyn.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#44 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:35 pm

I think it is pretty hard to judge him on this year because he played so little and when he did he was banged up. But with that said I think if he can play all of next year you would like to start seeing some improvements from him. You would like to see him finishing at the rim again like he did his first year where he shot 57% compared to 47% this past year.

I say shooting % wise if he can finish next year say 44/32/70, you would have to be pretty excited with his progression. I still think he has 20/5/5 type potential offensively and 1st team all NBA defensive potential. Youd basically be looking at an Iggy 2.0 or a 99 cent version of Kawhi. You have to remember that he just turned 21 and basically has just 1 season under his belt. But if he doesnt show much growth and improvement next year as a scorer, you might just have to readjust expectations to a Rondae Hollis Jefferson type of guy that can give you 20-25 minutes off the bench of really great defense and high energy.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#45 » by Wiltside » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:36 am

I'm not sure he'll ever be a high volume scorer, but he does so much for a team that doesn't show up in box scores necessarily.

I think next year if he can get to those %'s mentioned above, he'd be a huge success. I see him more like a Draymond, where his %'s may always fall short on expectations but it won't really matter, because he does so much other valuable stuff.

Assuming a consistent role next year, expecting 12/5/3 or so. Which is solid for a young Forward with plenty of room to grow further.

Peak Justise IMO:

16/6/4/ with elite defence.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#46 » by Hoops23 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:10 am

youngthegiant wrote:Denver offers #13 for Winslow??

Yes if Denver takes on McRobert's contract...
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Re: Winslow 

Post#47 » by Wiltside » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:51 am

No way. McBob's $5M x 2 years is ****, but not entirely unpalatable when the cap is $102M. People are way too quick to dump a young talent who hit a speed bump due to injuries in his sophomore season. Perspective please.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#48 » by gom » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:34 pm

Wiltside wrote:No way. McBob's $5M x 2 years is ****, but not entirely unpalatable when the cap is $102M. People are way too quick to dump a young talent who hit a speed bump due to injuries in his sophomore season. Perspective please.


McRoberts has a player option for 1 year remaining: $6,021,175 ($250K less than Ellington's team option.) Although I'm not a fan, Coach Spo says he is an important contributor. He has done zilch on court. Maybe he has helped James Johnson with the passing? I don't remember JJ being a good passer in Toronto. His 4.8 AST/36 is a career high.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#49 » by Heat_Fan_87 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:20 pm

Wiltside wrote:I'm not sure he'll ever be a high volume scorer, but he does so much for a team that doesn't show up in box scores necessarily.

I think next year if he can get to those %'s mentioned above, he'd be a huge success. I see him more like a Draymond, where his %'s may always fall short on expectations but it won't really matter, because he does so much other valuable stuff.

Assuming a consistent role next year, expecting 12/5/3 or so. Which is solid for a young Forward with plenty of room to grow further.

Peak Justise IMO:

16/6/4/ with elite defence.

He does do a lot of good things, but he also has some serious shortcomings. In terms of results, i think he can easily be replaced, as we have seen over the past 41 games, plug a 3 and d guy in and we will do well. he still has time, hopefully his shoulder is 100% when he returns.

^as for taking a pick for him, i would rather involve him in a trade for a better player.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#50 » by heat4life » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:36 pm

Wow, I can see Winslow is the new whip-boy until the pre-season starts. So now he can't even fetch a 1st round pick?
Give the kid a chance. If he develops that mid-range game and hits his FT's at a respectable rate, we have a similar player to Ron Artest at the very least. And Ron Artest had seasons where he averaged 18ppg-20ppg. His 3pt shot will come PLUS, Winslow can get to the basket and playmake better than Artest ever could. Let's have some patience before giving away this talent. 21 years old. It took Whiteside until 26yo to put it together. Winslow will get it done sooner. Patience.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#51 » by Wiltside » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:52 am

People are so quick to pile on dudes when they're down. Where were we 24 months ago?

- Stunned to pick Winslow at #10 when he was projected Top #7.
- Had a fantastic rookie year playing a key role on a veteran team that made a Game 7 (where he started at Center..and was one of our better players with 14pts, 8rbs, 2blk, 2stl in 36mins)
- Had a solid summer league showing growth in required areas.
- Injured his wrist, affecting his shot. Missed 19 games. Query on whether he may need surgery on it at seasons end.
- Tore his labrum on the final play in a game vs Boston 9 games later. Surgery and out for the year. Is now 'ahead of schedule' in recovery.

Check out some of these box scores:

vs ORL: 15pts, 8rbs, 4ast, 2blk, 1stl in 34 mins on 7/15 fg.
vs SAS: 18pts, 5rbs, 2st, 1blk, 1stl in 39 mins on 7/15fg.
vs CHI: 15pts, 5rbs, 6ast, 4stl in 38 mins on 6/11 fg, 3-5 3fg.
vs LAL: 23pts, 13rbs, 3ast, 4stl in 42 mins on 10/16fg.
vs BOS: 11pts, 9rbs, 6ast in 31 mins on 5/13fg.

There aren't that many 21yr olds with the overall floor game that Justise brings. Yes, he struggled this season due to increased offensive role (that he may not have been ready for) and the injuries derailed him. But he's still the same highly rated, highly valuable commodity he was when we drafted him.

I have no doubt that he would have filled a key role for us this season if he was healthy, and we still would've gone on the run we did.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#52 » by Heatle » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:59 am

BFRESH44 wrote:
• On Justise Winslow, who was limited to 18 games because of shoulder surgery: “Justise coming off the summer he had. If he were able to play a full season, the wrist injury coming out of preseason, would have had a major impact on this team. He had a terrific summer. Everyone you talk to coming out of Orlando, they were two of the top players coming out of the Summer League. They followed up an impressive rookie year with a great summer league.”

• But can Winslow be a three and D player? “Yes and he can create that game. People get caught up so much in the wrong narrative. We are not trying to develop Justise Winslow to become Chris Mullin. One thing he can do is impact defensively and take away threes.

“He can generate threes offensively because he puts a lot of pressure in the paint, off the dribble. I don’t want the focus on how many threes he makes. He will make enough. It will be about getting into world class shape. It will be my job to put him in spots to [succeed]. If he hadn’t had the wrist injury, he would have been an efficient offensive player.

“He will find a way to help your team.His weaknesses, whatever the perceived ones are, will not be our focus this summer. It will be his strengths and getting him to upper echolon strength will be the priority. Justise brings a tremendous amont of versatility of toughness, of winning plays, he fills in a lot of those intangible gaps.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article145007669.html#storylink=cpy


I went and looked at his summer league stats. He may have been "great" in some areas but shooting was not one of them. 3 games - 14/47 shooting....29.8%.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2016/statistics/orlando/
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Re: Winslow 

Post#53 » by Wiltside » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:27 am

Heatle wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:
• On Justise Winslow, who was limited to 18 games because of shoulder surgery: “Justise coming off the summer he had. If he were able to play a full season, the wrist injury coming out of preseason, would have had a major impact on this team. He had a terrific summer. Everyone you talk to coming out of Orlando, they were two of the top players coming out of the Summer League. They followed up an impressive rookie year with a great summer league.”

• But can Winslow be a three and D player? “Yes and he can create that game. People get caught up so much in the wrong narrative. We are not trying to develop Justise Winslow to become Chris Mullin. One thing he can do is impact defensively and take away threes.

“He can generate threes offensively because he puts a lot of pressure in the paint, off the dribble. I don’t want the focus on how many threes he makes. He will make enough. It will be about getting into world class shape. It will be my job to put him in spots to [succeed]. If he hadn’t had the wrist injury, he would have been an efficient offensive player.

“He will find a way to help your team.His weaknesses, whatever the perceived ones are, will not be our focus this summer. It will be his strengths and getting him to upper echolon strength will be the priority. Justise brings a tremendous amont of versatility of toughness, of winning plays, he fills in a lot of those intangible gaps.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article145007669.html#storylink=cpy


I went and looked at his summer league stats. He may have been "great" in some areas but shooting was not one of them. 3 games - 14/47 shooting....29.8%.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2016/statistics/orlando/


Small sample size alert. The 3 SL games he played:

2nd July vs LAC: 21pts, 4rbs, 4ast, 2stl, 6-15fg (40%), 2-6 3fg (33) and 7-8fts (87.5%) in 29mins
5th July vs ORL Blue: 15pts, 3rbs, 2ast, 3stl, 5-15fg (33%), 1-4 3fg (25%) and 4-5fts (80%) in 26mins
7th July vs DET: 13pts, 3rbs, 4ast, 1stl, 1blk, 3-17fg (17.6%), 1-7 3fg (14.2%) and 6-8fts (75%) in 32mins

It's no secret he had a stinker vs Detroit, but the 29% is mainly due to that one bad game. Plus, %'s are usually pretty gross in Summer League at any rate.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#54 » by vanhowell » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:43 pm

Winslow will be fine he's defense alone makes him a valuable player. He will definitely develop his shooting just give him more time.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#55 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:54 pm

vanhowell wrote:Winslow will be fine he's defense alone makes him a valuable player. He will definitely develop his shooting just give him more time.


Yup. Ill say this. You dont want to give up on the guy and trade him away at 21-22 years old then say in 3-4 years when hes still only 24-25 years old he gets a reliable jumper down and he becomes that all around stud that everyone knows hes capable of. You know he can be an elite defender, he can rebound and facilitate very well for a wing. When healthy you know he has a good handle and can slash and finish at the rim. Its really just that jump shot that is keeping him from really blowing up as a player. And again he has shown potential with it, shot 80% from the line as a senior in high school and shot over 40% from 3 in college on a good amount of attempts. He has shown flashes of potential. Just gotta stick it out and hope it all comes together. If not, I still say hes worth keeping and being a stud perimeter defender that brings a ton of energy.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#56 » by TMU » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:52 pm

ReturnofMVP3 wrote:What do we do with him? His shot selection kind of hurts us but great defender. Do we bring him off the bench, trade him, get him a shooting coach??


If you don't like him, you could get someone like Anthony Davis. :wink:
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Re: Winslow 

Post#57 » by CanesHeatFins » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:35 am

I really wish that he would've gotten some seasoning with Sioux Falls while Coach Craig was still there. I don't mind being patient with Justise, but after seeing how awesome this team can be without him, I can no longer turn a blind eye to his inefficiency in the name of development and at the expense of wins. Its ok to be young and inefficient. But to me he was out there screwing up trying to hard to be the next franchise player rather than making the real "basketball winning plays" that everyone blindly gives him credit for. I appreciate that he hustles, plays decent D, and looks uber serious 24/7, but that skill set is better suited for the bench with this team for now.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#58 » by Wiltside » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:39 am

Coach Craig is on Spo's staff, so not sure that really makes much of a difference. I understand what you're saying, but this was a development year. He learned something.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#59 » by ReturnofMVP3 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:15 am

Wish we could fuse Winslow and Beas together. Beas is offense with Winslows Defence
moocow007 wrote:
ReturnofMVP3 wrote:At least he didn't punch a fire extinguisher and is forced to miss games.

This is considered baiting. This is your only warning.

EDIT: Wait...how many warnings do you already have against your record? Wow.
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Re: Winslow 

Post#60 » by RJM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:47 am

twix2500 wrote:
Cmon_Son-_- wrote:Make him a full time power forward. Let him be JJ or Draymond Green.


I know Barkley was successful at PF, but Winslow at 6'4 6'5 is not a powerforward. He not a good rebounder, and struggle defending height as small forward.


He and Barkley are the same height. Barkley had otherworldly athleticism. Winslow's elevation is lacking.



Never in my life have I ever seen Winslow anywhere close to being this explosive.

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