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Shaq "The Big Cactus" on Phoenix tread.

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Post#41 » by Heat3 » Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:57 pm

MiamiHeatFan2004 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Too bad he isn't rebounding as well as marion was for them and he isn't even close to Marion on D.

Shaq is a lazy player and its catching up to him finally now that his freakish size and athleticism can't carry him at this age.

He should have developed a lot more weapons on offense other than the dunk.


Did you ever see him play? He had much more weapons than a dunk. How much do you expect a guy to do when he is in his 15th year in the league???
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Post#42 » by theFRANCHISE » Sun Mar 2, 2008 10:44 pm

MiamiHeatFan2004 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Too bad he isn't rebounding as well as marion was for them and he isn't even close to Marion on D.

Shaq is a lazy player and its catching up to him finally now that his freakish size and athleticism can't carry him at this age.

He should have developed a lot more weapons on offense other than the dunk.


I do agree that he is a lazy player, he always had that we'll turn it on when it counts attitude, if he didnt have that attitude I think he would have had at least 6-7 titles by now. In his prime he had more than the just the dunk.
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Post#43 » by MiamiHeatFan2004 » Mon Mar 3, 2008 12:02 am

Heat3 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Did you ever see him play? He had much more weapons than a dunk. How much do you expect a guy to do when he is in his 15th year in the league???


He never had a jumper at all, never had a good hook at all either. Never had really good moves that take practice. No turnaround shots like Ewing, no Hakeem shakes, nothing much other than natural talent and using his god given abilities.

He has always had size and a freakish agility to go along with the size. He could spin off guys and catch an alleyoop and go by guys yes. He even had good ball handling and passing for being so big.

Did you ever hear of Kareem and the sky hook or any of that kind of thing? Centers can develop shots that take practice and skill and then when they get older they rely on those. Shaq never had any go to moves other than dunks and alleyoops sorry.
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Post#44 » by jaypo » Tue Mar 4, 2008 3:12 pm

Would Jordan shoot 3 pointers all day if he was able to shoot 60% by dunking the ball most of the time? Guys that say that Shaq should have developed more offense forget the fact that he purposely became a back to the basket center. Those are his exact words. He could never be a Dirk or Gasol 7fter with a jump shot. Why try? He averaged 27 pts without it. He shot 60% without it. What he did worked for him. Would you ask Jordan to practice shooting 35 ft. jumpers because he needed that to become a better player? Or criticize him because he couldn't develop that offensive weapon? I think he did okay without it.
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Post#45 » by Heat3 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 5:18 pm

MiamiHeatFan2004 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He never had a jumper at all, never had a good hook at all either. Never had really good moves that take practice. No turnaround shots like Ewing, no Hakeem shakes, nothing much other than natural talent and using his god given abilities.

He has always had size and a freakish agility to go along with the size. He could spin off guys and catch an alleyoop and go by guys yes. He even had good ball handling and passing for being so big.

Did you ever hear of Kareem and the sky hook or any of that kind of thing? Centers can develop shots that take practice and skill and then when they get older they rely on those. Shaq never had any go to moves other than dunks and alleyoops sorry.


Again, why does Shaq have to play like other centers? Is 15 years of dominance not enough? Want him shooting threes like Manute? Maybe if he played 25 years and dominated then you wouldn't call him lazy. It is ridiculous to expect any player to even last 15 years in the league, much less expect him to do the same thing he did when he was young. Take a look at Ewing's and Hakeem's stats in their 15th season. What did their skills do to help them? Shaq still has better stats. How much of his decline is due to rules changes? Same can't be said for those two. As for Kareem, it's no great insult to say player x isn't as good as Kareem. Kareem was a once in a lifetime player and he's better than most.
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Post#46 » by MiamiHeatFan2004 » Tue Mar 4, 2008 11:22 pm

Heat3 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Again, why does Shaq have to play like other centers? Is 15 years of dominance not enough? Want him shooting threes like Manute? Maybe if he played 25 years and dominated then you wouldn't call him lazy. It is ridiculous to expect any player to even last 15 years in the league, much less expect him to do the same thing he did when he was young. Take a look at Ewing's and Hakeem's stats in their 15th season. What did their skills do to help them? Shaq still has better stats. How much of his decline is due to rules changes? Same can't be said for those two. As for Kareem, it's no great insult to say player x isn't as good as Kareem. Kareem was a once in a lifetime player and he's better than most.


Wilt Chamberlain sure adjusted his game later in his career and led the league in assists even one year and Kareem like I said changed as he got older to be able to contribute. Shaq is supposed to be in their class and says he is in their class himself.

If he wants to be like them, then he needs to show his leadership and ability to adjust to his older age. Dikembe Mutombo came in and blocked 4 shots a game this last week after not even barely playing for months and he is probably 42-44.

He wants to be known as the best Center ever, so that is why I hold him to high standards.

Moses Malone had 15pts and 9reb a game at age 36.
Ewing has 20.8pts and 10.2rebs at age 36.
Hakeem had 18.9pts and 9.6rebs at age 36.

Shaq is not even that good this year, 13.6pts and 8.2reb. So, see what I mean.

I didn't say Shaq should have developed new moves when he was able to dunk every play. But now that he can't dunk so much anymore, he needs to find a new move or 2. Use his brain for once and not just his size.

And he has been lazy, he even has said it, that he cruises through seasons and then "turns it on" when it matters. That is laziness and relying on pure natural talent and size instead of working hard all the time as well.
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Post#47 » by jaypo » Wed Mar 5, 2008 1:14 am

No, that's called knowing your body's limitations and pacing yourself so you don't gas out in the playoffs. But I agree with Heat3. He dominated for 15 years, has an MVP, scoring title, 4 rings, 3 finals MVP's, and has been to the Finals 6 times, but that's not good enough. He must be the greatest ever if he accomplished that while being lazy and fat. Imagine if he wasn't!! (Sarcasm--smell it?)
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Post#48 » by theFRANCHISE » Wed Mar 5, 2008 11:05 am

[quote="MiamiHeatFan2004"][/quote]

Good comparison on the stats of the 36 year old Malone, Ewing and Hakeem. I looked it up also and up to the age of 36.

Hakeem played 136 playoff games
Ewing played 110 playoff games
Moses Malone played 100 playoff games

Shaquille O'Neals # of playoff games up to this year 198

thats 62 more than hakeem, 88 more than ewing and almost 100 more than malone. He's played almost 2 1/2 extra seasons in games compared to those other guys. Sure he's been injured, but playing in that many games takes its toll on the body. I would expect those other guys to have better numbers at this age since they've platyed in less games....
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Post#49 » by MartyConlonJr » Wed Mar 5, 2008 12:14 pm

Shaq's missed 237 regular season games

Hakeem 133
Ewing 139
Malone 104

Not trying to disprove your point. The more important thing is that Shaq was playing professionally at 20, Hakeem 22 and Ewing 23, so he does have more years wear.
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Post#50 » by HeatOnRealGM » Wed Mar 5, 2008 7:06 pm

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Post#51 » by Lane1974 » Wed Mar 5, 2008 8:05 pm

^^ Hater! Don't you know Shaq is worth every penny! The Suns have made more in t-shirt sales and anti depression medicine than they are going to be paying him in the next 200 years!
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Post#52 » by Riled Up » Wed Mar 5, 2008 9:29 pm

Hell hath no fury......
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Post#53 » by CoolD » Thu Mar 6, 2008 5:09 am

:rofl: People keep bringing up Shaq's past. This is about Shaq's Phoenix run. And how he is playing, how he is impacting that team, and how the team is responding.

He is playing with okay energy know, not crazed anymore. His team ignores him, and he gets mostly garbage points. He rebounds okay, but their team defense, got even worst. Phoenix from being a top all around team 4 team in the west, looks like a top 9 team in the West know days.

Reason's why Shaq can't have impact. Nash doesn't want to slow down the game. When they do slow it down, Shaq is to undominant player knowdays, either he gets foul, misses his freethrows, turn the ball over, or offensive foul. Kind of like the Heat. And his ocasional free dunks to keep some stat geeks hopes alive.


The team still has abundant talent. But know it doesn't have a well defined style or mission. Shaq made that team lose its overall identity.

Shaq is going to be bought out, by the Suns after this season is over.
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Post#54 » by theFRANCHISE » Thu Mar 6, 2008 3:58 pm

lol steve kerr is still living in the 90's

the two big names that he's signed or traded for have been shaq and grant hill

haha 1996 called they want their all stars back
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Post#55 » by Truthiracy » Thu Mar 6, 2008 4:53 pm

theFRANCHISE wrote:lol steve kerr is still living in the 90's

the two big names that he's signed or traded for have been shaq and grant hill

haha 1996 called they want their all stars back


LMAO! True true.
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Post#56 » by The Bandit » Fri Mar 7, 2008 1:50 am

Grant Hill has been a great addition though.

I think the real problem is Amare's transition D. He constantly lets his defensive assignment beat him down the floor without even a sprint.

Haslem > Amare. The truth.
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Post#57 » by HeatInOhio » Fri Mar 7, 2008 10:48 pm

Ouch, ESPN's front page right now reads "The Big Backfire"

:oops:
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Post#58 » by amb1ent » Sat Mar 8, 2008 4:40 am

theFRANCHISE wrote:lol steve kerr is still living in the 90's

the two big names that he's signed or traded for have been shaq and grant hill

haha 1996 called they want their all stars back


Juwan Howard is rotting on the bench and Reggie was supposed to be considering a comeback.

Throw Penny in the mix and the Suns could have 5 of the East's '96 All Stars :lol:
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Post#59 » by Number34 » Sat Mar 8, 2008 5:06 am

The Bandit wrote:Grant Hill has been a great addition though.

I think the real problem is Amare's transition D. He constantly lets his defensive assignment beat him down the floor without even a sprint.

Haslem > Amare. The truth.


dude, amare is perhaps the worst defensive forward in the game, even shaq is a better defender. On d its more like haslem>>>>>>>>>>>>>amare
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Post#60 » by The Bandit » Sat Mar 8, 2008 6:38 pm

I meant with all things considered. Obviously Haslem is far superior on defense.

I dont think you can win a championship with such poor interior defense, the Suns are kidding themselves.

At least we have a lotto pick to look forward to, they have Nash and Shaq's retirements to look forward to...

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