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Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#421 » by IceColdCubano » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:49 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Another trade option is with the Spurs

PG Kyle Lowry
SF Duncan Robinson
2028 heavily protected 1st rd pick

to the Spurs for

SF Doug McDermott (expiring)
C Zach Collins(expiring)
PF Khem Birch (expiring)
PG Devontae Graham 2 yrs (12.1 per)

* Deal saves 7 millon worth of cap space next year and saves 6 million from Duncan's deal next year and we get off a year earlier matching it to Graham's contract.

With his trade you fill up some roster gaps and also get a young PG in return that we've had interest in the past in with Graham. Spurs could be possibly be interested bringing in Lowry to guide the young players along and especially making the game a bit easier for Wemby by getting him the ball in good spots. I know Pop has spoke highly about Lowry in the past. Zach Collins would be a great fit here cause he's actually a 3 point shooting big you can match with Bam. McDermott would be great coming off the bench and could even conceivably start at PF for us. He also happens to be a friend of Jimmy's. We've had Khem Birch in the past and he does give us a defensive minded dog who can be a good match with Jovic coming off the bench. Graham is a good fit as a backup PG to Gabe.


I actually really like this trade, its very good for us, not sure if San Antonio bites though.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#422 » by QUIZ » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:51 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
QUIZ wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Doubt that deal comes to fruition. I did mention last night a deal of Powell and RoCo from the Clippers for Kyle. 29.6 in and out but the reason why the Clippers do it is to get out from Powell's deal next year to ease up the tax burden killing that team. We take on Powell's 18 but also get RoCo's expiring 11.6. It's a better use of Lowry's big cap figure and also getting Powell you don't have to worry about needing the bird right's to sign Max Strus. Powell is a way better player than Max and a perfect scoring fit coming off the bench and brings great defense.

Yeah I see that. I think ultimately if you’re the Heat, you need to see what our expirings plus pick 18 can get you. Lots of teams are going to want to get off salary under the new CBA.

Except Miami also needs to get under salary so expecting to trade Lowry(a large Expiring) & #18(a cheap deal) for a multi year large contract is not something Miami will do. Pat Riley made this abundantly clear in his press conference.

Also I think you’re misconstruing Riley’s comments.

If we had traded for Beal on Washington’s terms, meaning only sending them picks and expiring contracts, we would currently have $180million in guaranteed money between Jimmy/Bam/Beal/Herro/Duncan, which by itself would make us a 2nd apron team this year and moving forward between just 5 players.

That is very different than what I’m suggesting which is really just reshuffling the chairs to turn of current salary into more useful salary. Plus the examples I threw out are for trading our expirings for other expirings. The real second apron penalties don’t begin until the 24/25 season when we only have $139mill committed assuming we can’t move Duncan in the meantime.

We still have a lot of flexibility currently as compared to what our situation would be if we had Beal with a no trade clause.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#423 » by Heat3 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:51 pm

DayofMourning wrote:The media reports of PLand going after Bam are pretty silly. Miami wants to give all its assets for a 34 year old who isnt close to contending on his current team. Local mouthpieces then come up with a story to balance out the scenario by asking for 25 year old team centerpiece Bam Adebayo....

I mean, one situation is super obvious and realistic, while the other is just stupid.


Dumb and childish. They should worry about why their star player publicly says he’d love to play on other teams. How Bam is his dawg. How every team should have a Udonis Haslem.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#424 » by HeatFanDan » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:55 pm

Lol @ the reports of "Blazers trying to trade for Bam Adebayo". They can try all they want, but Bam is definitely NOT on the trading block. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that phone call.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#425 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:59 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Lowry and a 1st for Sexton and KO

Herro for Turner and Buddy

Vincent/Pat Bev/Dragic
Buddy/Sexton/Cain
Jimmy/Martin/???
Bam/Highsmith/Jovic
Turner/KO/Robinson or Noel

Indy bolsters our starting lineup; Utah helps the bench. Power rotation looking much tougher; added some 3 level scoring to both the starters and bench.

Probably won’t happen but these are the types of deals we need to be looking at if we strike out in the Danes/Lavines/PGs of the world. Top level role players who have always been viewed as very talented players.

Why are the Pacers trading Turner again? and why would they want to trade Turner and his bargain basement deal of 20 mil 2 yr for Herro's long term 27 mil? They are much better off just letting Mathurin who's cost controlled have the two guard spot. Dealing with Utah is the closest thing to dealing with the devil for Pat Riley but now you compound it even further throwing in Klutch Sexton. Ainge is probably looking to demand at least 2 (1st rd picks minimum for Sexton considering his age and how cheap he's signed for the next 3 years). Utah just threw him out in trade to see who's willing to overpay. They have no reason to deal him other then to try and sell high. You did say probably won't happen so i'll give you that. You are correct though that they are plenty of deals out there that we can execute to upgrade this roster but it's a bit of a tight rope that needs to be well thought out.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#426 » by Rapaz » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:01 pm

Rapaz wrote:According to DusterBuster, Portland Muppet “Marang” is reporting that Scoot wants to land in Nola and there’s a three-team deal in the works:

#2 pick to Nola
#3 pick plus other assets to Charlotte
Zion to Portland

:o

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#427 » by greg4012 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:03 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Another trade option is with the Spurs

PG Kyle Lowry
SF Duncan Robinson
2028 heavily protected 1st rd pick

to the Spurs for

SF Doug McDermott (expiring)
C Zach Collins(expiring)
PF Khem Birch (expiring)
PG Devontae Graham 2 yrs (12.1 per)

* Deal saves 7 millon worth of cap space next year and saves 6 million from Duncan's deal next year and we get off a year earlier matching it to Graham's contract.

With his trade you fill up some roster gaps and also get a young PG in return that we've had interest in the past in with Graham. Spurs could be possibly be interested bringing in Lowry to guide the young players along and especially making the game a bit easier for Wemby by getting him the ball in good spots. I know Pop has spoke highly about Lowry in the past. Zach Collins would be a great fit here cause he's actually a 3 point shooting big you can match with Bam. McDermott would be great coming off the bench and could even conceivably start at PF for us. He also happens to be a friend of Jimmy's. We've had Khem Birch in the past and he does give us a defensive minded dog who can be a good match with Jovic coming off the bench. Graham is a good fit as a backup PG to Gabe.


This looks very familiar
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#428 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:07 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Lowry and a 1st for Sexton and KO

Herro for Turner and Buddy

Vincent/Pat Bev/Dragic
Buddy/Sexton/Cain
Jimmy/Martin/???
Bam/Highsmith/Jovic
Turner/KO/Robinson or Noel

Indy bolsters our starting lineup; Utah helps the bench. Power rotation looking much tougher; added some 3 level scoring to both the starters and bench.

Probably won’t happen but these are the types of deals we need to be looking at if we strike out in the Danes/Lavines/PGs of the world. Top level role players who have always been viewed as very talented players.

Why are the Pacers trading Turner again? and why would they want to trade Turner and his bargain basement deal of 20 mil 2 yr for Herro's long term 27 mil? They are much better off just letting Mathurin who's cost controlled have the two guard spot. Dealing with Utah is the closest thing to dealing with the devil for Pat Riley but now you compound it even further throwing in Klutch Sexton. Ainge is probably looking to demand at least 2 (1st rd picks minimum for Sexton considering his age and how cheap he's signed for the next 3 years). Utah just threw him out in trade to see who's willing to overpay. They have no reason to deal him other then to try and sell high. You did say probably won't happen so i'll give you that. You are correct though that they are plenty of deals out there that we can execute to upgrade this roster but it's a bit of a tight rope that needs to be well thought out.


Neither deal is far off and all of those players have been mentioned and rumored in trades over the past couple years several times. Again, it was just an example of the type of deals we should be looking at whether it happens or not when Pat strikes out on his whales
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#429 » by greg4012 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:09 pm

The tough thing about hoping to trade with Indiana for Turner is that you would really have to make it worth their while. All the Turner trade rumors were before Indiana re-signed him, and when they were in pursuit of Ayton. Now they have him on a good deal.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#430 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:10 pm

Rapaz wrote:
Rapaz wrote:According to DusterBuster, Portland Muppet “Marang” is reporting that Scoot wants to land in Nola and there’s a three-team deal in the works:

#2 pick to Nola
#3 pick plus other assets to Charlotte
Zion to Portland

:o

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It's a splashy trade for all involved that works but not without risk that's for sure. Probably good for Zion to get out of New Orleans and far away from everything that's been getting him in trouble over there. He'll also be closer to the Nike umbrella who are heavily invested into and can keep closer tabs on him.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#431 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:14 pm

greg4012 wrote:The tough thing about hoping to trade with Indiana for Turner is that you would really have to make it worth their while. All the Turner trade rumors were before Indiana re-signed him, and when they were in pursuit of Ayton. Now they have him on a good deal.


Part of me thinks they extended him last season exactly for that reason. They couldn’t get anyone to bite on his expiring because of what it would lead to over the summer. No one was offering a 1st or anything of value. They bloated his pay last season and have extended him over the next 2 on a good deal. Teams will be more willing to give something of value now.

He’s been in trade rumors, has even campaigned for other teams to trade for him himself, and think he’s ready to try and win.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#432 » by VaDe255 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:16 pm

Rapaz wrote:
Rapaz wrote:According to DusterBuster, Portland Muppet “Marang” is reporting that Scoot wants to land in Nola and there’s a three-team deal in the works:

#2 pick to Nola
#3 pick plus other assets to Charlotte
Zion to Portland

:o

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Really? Portland would do that and take that kind of risk, because they have such a great history with very talented but injury prone players!?
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#433 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:20 pm

Bruce Brown opted out; I wonder what their plan is to keep him.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#434 » by Rapaz » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:20 pm

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Ooooooof. Gonna be special.

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#435 » by Flash4thewin » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:21 pm

QUIZ wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
QUIZ wrote:Exactly this. The Heat for the first time in a long time actually have a lot of useful contracts to play with the match salary.

Regardless of the big game hunting stuff, the goal should be to turn the $40million in expiring salary that Dipo and Lowry make and the $19mill that Duncan makes, into usable functional rotation pieces for us.

As much as everyone wants a splashy star, we don’t need that to compete. What we do need though is a more balanced foster. Right now we have almost $60million invested in bench players or injured players (Lowry/Duncan/Dipo).

You have to find a way to turn that money into functional help, particularly in the front court.

A guy like Marcus Morris is a great option, he’s an expiring as well. Maybe he can be bad from the clippers for Lowry plus some sweetener.


I may have been a little too contrived on my previous post but the main point still stands.
Finally looking at our tax situation and listening to the experts along with Pat Riley press, tells me the type of wall that were facing.

You guys make it seem like we have all these moving parts, that interchangeable and capable of giving us lots of options its just not true.

Lets start with Oladipo, it doesn't help the team to stretch him this year, it would be more beneficial for us to let him expire next year to help us get out of the 2nd Apron. You could also trade him but it will need to be for another 1 year rental near his salary but since hes injured why would a team even do that to begin with. Unless Miami puts him a big deal for a big time player because the other team wants some expiring contracts its going to be hard to move his dead weight, which frankly helps us if we keep him.

Lowry again similar to Oladipo except far more likely to be used in a trade falls under the same, issue you cannot pair him up with a multiyear contract because you need his salary to drop at least by 1/3 if Oladipo stays and by 2/3 if Oladipo is traded for non expiring contract. Which means Miami if cannot do a 1 for 1 trade for Lowry would need to get back 2 players, 1 of them can have a multiyear deal, the other needs to be a smaller expiring.

As you can see, its not going to be as easy peasy as we think, contenders who are going to go over the 2nd Apron who have certain needs may be the ones you can get these types of assets where you trade expirings for expirings at different positions of need.

Well it depends on what the goal is. We are a tax team this year and we pretty much will be for the remainder of the run with this core so long as we have Herro/Jimmy/Bam signed for a combined $110mill.

If the goal is to get out of the tax then of course that’s not easy, you’d have to find teams that could eat our big salaries and send nothing back. No one is going to do that for free.

If however, the goal is to turn the salaries that we do have into more useful pieces, I think we’re set up better now than we have been in past years because of the various contracts we have to play with. Because of our cap situation using exception money or singing free agents is out the window, but we have a ton of options when it comes to trading for talent.

We have 40 million in expiring money in Dipo and Lowry. We have Duncan’s $19mill in the event that we’re sending out our bad salary and taking someone else’s bad salary back, and we also have Strus and Gabe’s bird rights which offer us more spending mechanisms.

For example if we let Gabe or Strus walk, we can only replace them with minim guys. If instead they’re signed for team friendly good value deals, that offers us other ways to improve in future years. Like for example, if Gabe is signed for 3yr $36mill or Strus for 3yr $30mill, those would both be useful contracts as trade filler eventually.

Also avoiding the tax and avoiding the second apron are two different things. The new CBA actually encourages you to spend a bit above the tax. It just heavily discourages you from being a massive spending for multiple years. We can walk that fine line.


You had me until the last part. It's like we dont learn do we. We signed Dedmon because we thought he would be a useful contract as a trade fillers. Unfortunately we need actual real talent. Gabe and Strus will go to the highest bidder, this is there one shot at making some money, they will not take a team friendly deal, it makes no sense for them to do that and I agree with them going after the money 100%. The other issue is signing them to that amount puts us over the tax so Mickey won't be getting a tax check, he will be paying it. We know Mickey and when it comes to money

40 million in expiring basically has value if you are willing to take on a bad deal which would put us over the tax and is why the Beal deal didnt happen. If a star is on the market they want real talent, they want that blue chip player, we dont have that person on our roster. Oh and it gets worse. I fully expect Dame to stay and for us to do basically nothing but most importantly let Lowry and Oladipo expire. That will help us cap wise but destroy any fantasy we have to getting a star because all we can offer will be:

Herro + Duncan + picks. No more expiring. Imagine trying to sell that package...
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#436 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:21 pm

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Us adding the Bulls backcourt of Caruso/Lavine/Pat Bev would be nice
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#437 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:24 pm

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Pacers Hornets Nets and Kings could be good trade partners to send 18 for multiple picks
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#438 » by QUIZ » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:24 pm

I don’t know why I didn’t think of this but I’d also seriously be interested in Chris Paul in the event that we could get him for a Lowry/Duncan and either Jokic or pick 18. i think cp3 is a Lowry upgrade and that gets Duncan off of our books.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#439 » by Flash4thewin » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:28 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
greg4012 wrote:The tough thing about hoping to trade with Indiana for Turner is that you would really have to make it worth their while. All the Turner trade rumors were before Indiana re-signed him, and when they were in pursuit of Ayton. Now they have him on a good deal.


Part of me thinks they extended him last season exactly for that reason. They couldn’t get anyone to bite on his expiring because of what it would lead to over the summer. No one was offering a 1st or anything of value. They bloated his pay last season and have extended him over the next 2 on a good deal. Teams will be more willing to give something of value now.

He’s been in trade rumors, has even campaigned for other teams to trade for him himself, and think he’s ready to try and win.


The Lakers were offering unprotected pics to get him in the Westbrook trade....
Indy said no. Other teams were offering picks. They could have easily traded him if they wanted to. They wanted to keep him not trade him, thats why they extended him with the cap space so he gets a huge pay bump and then its 20 mil for the rest of the deal so they can be under the cap and get better. They wanted to trade one of Sabots or Turner to keep the other one since they both didnt work out when both on the court and both were best at center.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#440 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:36 pm

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Hmmmmmmm…..
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