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Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#441 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:37 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
Hallstar wrote:I don't normally get behind these dudes. I was against Waiters, against Johnson, against Winslow, against Nunn. All of those deals. Heat fans tend to fall in love with "grit and a story". Herro isn't some plucky try hard that's just happy to be in the NBA and some fans don't like it. Probably have to go back to Whiteside for a young dude I liked for better or worse.

I care about the talent level of the team, I see offensive potential in Herro that this team frankly doesn't have going forward otherwise. Some don't and that's fine. Yes he needs to get better on defense, it's also Spo's job to have a system that caters to the players he has. He's not the first player to have defensive limitations. If your system is that restrictive, why waste the draft pick? His measurements weren't gonna change.


Usually the problem with us posters here is that sometimes we go to the extremes with our point of view. Herro was very important last year in us getting that first seed and finishing with a good record ( people tend to forget ) But it is obvious he has a few flaws and disadvantages still in his game ( this is the reason i am against to pay him a lot of money ) we already made the same mistake with Bam, paying him like a star and he simple at this point in time he is not, i have serious doubts he will become one. I know this crazy market is the one dictating max player money, but its crazy how players who are not even stars are getting a cr ap load of money and handcapping teams to improve. I think Lawry's contract will look a little better this upcoming year with him in better shape and hopefully not missing that many games. Herro has been an important piece in our team, no doubt but not to fork 30 mil per year.


So you don’t mind Lowry making $30M but Bam making less than that last year and $30M this coming season is too much for you?

Bam is a star, he’s known league wide as the 3rd or 4th best player at his position. He’s the best defender in the world while averaging 19 points and anywhere from 3-5 assists. The key piece to the teams defense and a major part of the offense, we basically run every action through him. I hate to break it to you brother but he’s a star and any team in the league would pay him this max.


Check my firest sentence about taking everything to the extreme. When did i say or even implied i was satisfied with paying Lowry at this age all that money? Oh i would not be surprised at all others team forking max money with this crazy market, but that doesnt make it in the least worth it of max money. Like i said before you are for a very rude awakening if Spoelstra decides to run more plays with Bam being featured in the offense. He is a star in a watered down league and as soon as his youthness starts fading it will be even worse.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#442 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:16 pm

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#443 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:19 pm

MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
Usually the problem with us posters here is that sometimes we go to the extremes with our point of view. Herro was very important last year in us getting that first seed and finishing with a good record ( people tend to forget ) But it is obvious he has a few flaws and disadvantages still in his game ( this is the reason i am against to pay him a lot of money ) we already made the same mistake with Bam, paying him like a star and he simple at this point in time he is not, i have serious doubts he will become one. I know this crazy market is the one dictating max player money, but its crazy how players who are not even stars are getting a cr ap load of money and handcapping teams to improve. I think Lawry's contract will look a little better this upcoming year with him in better shape and hopefully not missing that many games. Herro has been an important piece in our team, no doubt but not to fork 30 mil per year.


So you don’t mind Lowry making $30M but Bam making less than that last year and $30M this coming season is too much for you?

Bam is a star, he’s known league wide as the 3rd or 4th best player at his position. He’s the best defender in the world while averaging 19 points and anywhere from 3-5 assists. The key piece to the teams defense and a major part of the offense, we basically run every action through him. I hate to break it to you brother but he’s a star and any team in the league would pay him this max.


Check my firest sentence about taking everything to the extreme. When did i say or even implied i was satisfied with paying Lowry at this age all that money? Oh i would not be surprised at all others team forking max money with this crazy market, but that doesnt make it in the least worth it of max money. Like i said before you are for a very rude awakening if Spoelstra decides to run more plays with Bam being featured in the offense. He is a star in a watered down league and as soon as his youthness starts fading it will be even worse.


What did I say that was extreme?

Your wording made it seem like you didn’t mind Lowry at $30M because it should look better with improved shape and better health.

I can’t wait for this dude to be getting anywhere from 15-17 shots averaging around 22-10-4 while being the best defender in the world. You all still won’t be happy :lol:

Bams contract should be the least of your alls worries compared to Lowrys, potentially Herros, and Jimmy making $49M at 35, $52M at 36. His contract is great value
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#444 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:29 pm

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What other centers have a good enough handle and passing and are running inverted PnRs? Dudes just so versatile and elite, big leap incoming if ICCs source is right about our offensive scheme involving more scoring for Bam.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#445 » by Hallstar » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:52 pm

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What other centers have a good enough handle and passing and are running inverted PnRs? Dudes just so versatile and elite, big leap incoming if ICCs source is right about our offensive scheme involving more scoring for Bam.

Spam Tyler/Bam PnR til teams prove they can stop it. It's one of our easiest plays and the big men are scared of Tyler's pull up almost always leaving Bam free.

I don't want a whole lot of Bam ball holding at the freethrow line
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#446 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:04 pm

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What other centers have a good enough handle and passing and are running inverted PnRs? Dudes just so versatile and elite, big leap incoming if ICCs source is right about our offensive scheme involving more scoring for Bam.

Spam Tyler/Bam PnR til teams prove they can stop it. It's one of our easiest plays and the big men are scared of Tyler's pull up almost always leaving Bam free.

I don't want a whole lot of Bam ball holding at the freethrow line


Works for me. We need to see a lot of 2 man action with him and Herro/Lowry/Jimmy this season. I agree, give him the ball in spots and tell him to score. Cut the DHOs in half at least, we have a $30M that needs to be making the plays.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#447 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:22 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
So you don’t mind Lowry making $30M but Bam making less than that last year and $30M this coming season is too much for you?

Bam is a star, he’s known league wide as the 3rd or 4th best player at his position. He’s the best defender in the world while averaging 19 points and anywhere from 3-5 assists. The key piece to the teams defense and a major part of the offense, we basically run every action through him. I hate to break it to you brother but he’s a star and any team in the league would pay him this max.


Check my firest sentence about taking everything to the extreme. When did i say or even implied i was satisfied with paying Lowry at this age all that money? Oh i would not be surprised at all others team forking max money with this crazy market, but that doesnt make it in the least worth it of max money. Like i said before you are for a very rude awakening if Spoelstra decides to run more plays with Bam being featured in the offense. He is a star in a watered down league and as soon as his youthness starts fading it will be even worse.


What did I say that was extreme?

Your wording made it seem like you didn’t mind Lowry at $30M because it should look better with improved shape and better health.

I can’t wait for this dude to be getting anywhere from 15-17 shots averaging around 22-10-4 while being the best defender in the world. You all still won’t be happy :lol:

Bams contract should be the least of your alls worries compared to Lowrys, potentially Herros, and Jimmy making $49M at 35, $52M at 36. His contract is great value


25 Per game would be fine with me
Jimmy is proving his worth every year, except that lousy performance by the whole team agains the Bucks. Problem is Jimmy would be an excelent second option in a team with a superstar, he is getting paid like the main guy, buy i dont have much complaint, he can score or get to the line almost at will, he is no Dwade but is the best we got.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#448 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:11 pm

MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
Check my firest sentence about taking everything to the extreme. When did i say or even implied i was satisfied with paying Lowry at this age all that money? Oh i would not be surprised at all others team forking max money with this crazy market, but that doesnt make it in the least worth it of max money. Like i said before you are for a very rude awakening if Spoelstra decides to run more plays with Bam being featured in the offense. He is a star in a watered down league and as soon as his youthness starts fading it will be even worse.


What did I say that was extreme?

Your wording made it seem like you didn’t mind Lowry at $30M because it should look better with improved shape and better health.

I can’t wait for this dude to be getting anywhere from 15-17 shots averaging around 22-10-4 while being the best defender in the world. You all still won’t be happy :lol:

Bams contract should be the least of your alls worries compared to Lowrys, potentially Herros, and Jimmy making $49M at 35, $52M at 36. His contract is great value


25 Per game would be fine with me
Jimmy is proving his worth every year, except that lousy performance by the whole team agains the Bucks. Problem is Jimmy would be an excelent second option in a team with a superstar, he is getting paid like the main guy, buy i dont have much complaint, he can score or get to the line almost at will, he is no Dwade but is the best we got.


So you need at least 25-10-3 from the best defender in the world to think he’s worth $30M? If that’s the case there’s not a player in the league outside of a rookie deal that’s worth their contract
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#449 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:01 am

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#450 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:03 am

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#451 » by eddieheatfan » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:37 am

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#452 » by MorbidHEAT » Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:35 am

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#453 » by AirP. » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:18 pm

"I think the dirty little secret there is that they were better with Gabe Vincent on the floor than with Kyle Lowry."

- NBA executive on Miami Heat's point guard situation

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Yes, a healthy Vincent was better than an injured Lowry in the playoffs but let's not pretend that Vincent was good overall, he wasn't.

Let's look at their PER36 to see their rate of stats (plus ortg, drtg, overall)
Regular season
Vincent 13.4 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.9 reb, 2.2 to, 1.4 stl .417 fg%, .368 3pt%, .551 ts% (107 ortg, 111 drtg, -4)
Lowry 14.2 pts, 8.0 ast, 4.8 reb, 2.8 to, 1.1 stl, .440 fg%, .377 3pt% .600 ts% (118 ortg, 110 drtg, +8)

Playoffs
Vincent 12.3 pts, 4.9 ast, 3.0 reb, 2.1 to, 1.2 stl, .382 fg%, .309 3pt%, .515 ts% (103 ortg, 109 drtg, -6)
Lowry 9.5 pts, 5.7 ast, 4.4 reb, 2.3 to, 1.5 stl, .291 fg%, .251 3pt%, .413 ts% (91 ortg, 106 drtg, -15)

Also, since Miami said nah to Dragic at the minimum... we're good.
Dragic (playoffs) 19.1 pts, 2.7 ast, 8.2 reb, 2.3 to, 1.4 stl, .563 fg%, .333 3pt%, .639 ts% (120 ortg, 121 drtg, -1)

Maybe Miami should have a little more depth at positions where they were starting 35+ year olds? This should be the biggest issue with the roster. Luckily Oladipo should be able to handle some of the PG duties if Lowry goes down, but PF is starting out undersized with really no other options than dramatically altering the rotation by moving Bam or Yurtseven to PF.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#454 » by twix2500 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:44 pm

AirP. wrote:
"I think the dirty little secret there is that they were better with Gabe Vincent on the floor than with Kyle Lowry."

- NBA executive on Miami Heat's point guard situation
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Spoiler:
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Yes, a healthy Vincent was better than an injured Lowry in the playoffs but let's not pretend that Vincent was good overall, he wasn't.

Let's look at their PER36 to see their rate of stats (plus ortg, drtg, overall)
Regular season
Vincent 13.4 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.9 reb, 2.2 to, 1.4 stl .417 fg%, .368 3pt%, .551 ts% (107 ortg, 111 drtg, -4)
Lowry 14.2 pts, 8.0 ast, 4.8 reb, 2.8 to, 1.1 stl, .440 fg%, .377 3pt% .600 ts% (118 ortg, 110 drtg, +8)

Playoffs
Vincent 12.3 pts, 4.9 ast, 3.0 reb, 2.1 to, 1.2 stl, .382 fg%, .309 3pt%, .515 ts% (103 ortg, 109 drtg, -6)
Lowry 9.5 pts, 5.7 ast, 4.4 reb, 2.3 to, 1.5 stl, .291 fg%, .251 3pt%, .413 ts% (91 ortg, 106 drtg, -15)

Also, since Miami said nah to Dragic at the minimum... we're good.
Dragic (playoffs) 19.1 pts, 2.7 ast, 8.2 reb, 2.3 to, 1.4 stl, .563 fg%, .333 3pt%, .639 ts% (120 ortg, 121 drtg, -1)

Maybe Miami should have a little more depth at positions where they were starting 35+ year olds? This should be the biggest issue with the roster. Luckily Oladipo should be able to handle some of the PG duties if Lowry goes down, but PF is starting out undersized with really no other options than dramatically altering the rotation by moving Bam or Yurtseven to PF.
Vincent is not a point guard offensively

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#455 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:01 pm

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Good ol nba.com, apparently Herro is a PG
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#456 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:42 pm

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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#457 » by AirP. » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:16 pm

twix2500 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
"I think the dirty little secret there is that they were better with Gabe Vincent on the floor than with Kyle Lowry."

- NBA executive on Miami Heat's point guard situation
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Yes, a healthy Vincent was better than an injured Lowry in the playoffs but let's not pretend that Vincent was good overall, he wasn't.

Spoiler:
Let's look at their PER36 to see their rate of stats (plus ortg, drtg, overall)
Regular season
Vincent 13.4 pts, 4.8 ast, 2.9 reb, 2.2 to, 1.4 stl .417 fg%, .368 3pt%, .551 ts% (107 ortg, 111 drtg, -4)
Lowry 14.2 pts, 8.0 ast, 4.8 reb, 2.8 to, 1.1 stl, .440 fg%, .377 3pt% .600 ts% (118 ortg, 110 drtg, +8)

Playoffs
Vincent 12.3 pts, 4.9 ast, 3.0 reb, 2.1 to, 1.2 stl, .382 fg%, .309 3pt%, .515 ts% (103 ortg, 109 drtg, -6)
Lowry 9.5 pts, 5.7 ast, 4.4 reb, 2.3 to, 1.5 stl, .291 fg%, .251 3pt%, .413 ts% (91 ortg, 106 drtg, -15)

Also, since Miami said nah to Dragic at the minimum... we're good.
Dragic (playoffs) 19.1 pts, 2.7 ast, 8.2 reb, 2.3 to, 1.4 stl, .563 fg%, .333 3pt%, .639 ts% (120 ortg, 121 drtg, -1)


Maybe Miami should have a little more depth at positions where they were starting 35+ year olds? This should be the biggest issue with the roster. Luckily Oladipo should be able to handle some of the PG duties if Lowry goes down, but PF is starting out undersized with really no other options than dramatically altering the rotation by moving Bam or Yurtseven to PF.
Vincent is not a point guard offensively

So are you trying to help me make my point that the FO didn't properly construct the roster last year or this year when you're starting a 35/36 year olds PG and PF and won't get a real backup for the position either season, this year they don't really have someone you'd consider a PF except that guy is starting at center?

I like Gabe and there should be roster spots for guys like him, he's a worker and doesn't try to do too much but let's not lose sight of what he is, he's a high effort defensive combo guard that isn't particularly good offensively at the NBA level.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#458 » by AirP. » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:26 pm

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How many minutes did that group play together last year? Just looking under 5 man combos with Butler they go all the way to the 10th most minutes which was only 38 minutes and that 5 isn't on there.
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#459 » by eddieheatfan » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:26 pm

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Good ol nba.com, apparently Herro is a PG
of course he's not a PG :crazy:
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Re: Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK 

Post#460 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:02 pm

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10. Jimmy
28. Bam
66. Lowry
76. Herro

Some of the guys listed above ours are laughable.
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