Miami Heat Off-season Thread 9.0 - Dame’s BBW Edition

[contract]

I like the idea of Miami going "look, here's our offer... this might not be there at the deadline." At the very least I think it makes Portland consider getting rid of him by training camp. Other than that, Portland is doing the smart thing here unfortunately. They have no reason to rush this, and the Heat do.

You guys don't understand. The Heat doesn't hurt Cronin at all by pulling the offer. If we pull our offer, all that's going to do is force Dame to agree to get traded to teams that he's currently refusing to consider playing for.

[Phinsoverpats]

I like the idea of Miami going "look, here's our offer... this might not be there at the deadline." At the very least I think it makes Portland consider getting rid of him by training camp. Other than that, Portland is doing the smart thing here unfortunately. They have no reason to rush this, and the Heat do.

This how I’m thinking, say we give up what Portland is asking for which is basically our future. Then and January he has a major injury because at his age that’s higher risk. Then we end up in a terrible position with no future but paying an often injured guy all that money not to play. I remember when Kyle missed that time and fans was on his ass and he’s not even getting half of what dame is owed. Keep him Portland. Paying a guy all that money to not make the playoffs is hilarious. If dame was 27 yeah throw the house at him, 33 naw I’m good.

[contract]

Dame doesnt have to get nasty. If it gets ugly, he will end up playing for a team thats probably not even on his list, like Kawhi in Toronto. Just stay the course, reiterate privately to ownership, billups and cronin your desire to be moved to Miami without taking shots at the organization. And it will work itself out.

Kawhi is a little different, it was just one year so he knew he'd to go wherever he wanted a year later, once Lillard is moved from Portland he's going to be looked upon like just another asset, so if whatever team doesn't do well with him he could just be traded again, look at CP3 who got traded out of LA, he ended up going to Houston, OKC, Phoenix and now GS. Lillard either goes all in with forcing himself to Miami or he could end up with the same fate as CP3.

If Lillard were to get moved to Philly, I would not be one bit surprised if he's not traded by Morey in 1-2 years, there is 0 loyalty to Lillard from his FO once he leaves Portland, I think this is another reason why Lillard is pushing Miami seeing how they've treated Butler in recent history.

How have we treated Butler in recent history? He's been here 4 years.

[greg4012]

Well

[DiegoChara]

Cronin is a fuxkin pxssy. Imagine treating your franchise goat like this when in your own words you said “I failed Dame” because you couldn’t do your job and get pieces next to him. I hope everyone is watching how this dude operates.

Time to get more toxic Dame

It's quite possible he was hired to make this transition from Lillard to a new build and although what he's doing should be toxic to high level FA, they don't get all that many free agents and if the younger guys are good which Scoot, Sharp and Simons may be, the fanbase will be fine moving forward and will be good bringing Lillard back to retire his jersey.

These young guys idolize dame and will never be dame, they’re seeing how Cronin operates with him so they know he’ll do the same or worse for them. They might walk for free when it’s all said and done.

My guess is, the young Blazer guards would probably rather
a) have the keys to the team turned over to them, AND
b) have the team have more future assets available to improve the team in hopes of making them a viable playoff team a couple years down the line.

Assuming Portland doesn’t truly burn Dame in some wildly improbable way like sending him to Detroit or Charlotte or something, I think Scoot/Sharpe/Simons will be fine.

[Umbooki]

All of this is so obnoxious

[Rapaz]

Cockblock Cronin got you in shambles

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

[IceColdCubano]

Read on Twitter

[AirP.]

Dame doesnt have to get nasty. If it gets ugly, he will end up playing for a team thats probably not even on his list, like Kawhi in Toronto. Just stay the course, reiterate privately to ownership, billups and cronin your desire to be moved to Miami without taking shots at the organization. And it will work itself out.

Kawhi is a little different, it was just one year so he knew he'd to go wherever he wanted a year later, once Lillard is moved from Portland he's going to be looked upon like just another asset, so if whatever team doesn't do well with him he could just be traded again, look at CP3 who got traded out of LA, he ended up going to Houston, OKC, Phoenix and now GS. Lillard either goes all in with forcing himself to Miami or he could end up with the same fate as CP3.

If Lillard were to get moved to Philly, I would not be one bit surprised if he's not traded by Morey in 1-2 years, there is 0 loyalty to Lillard from his FO once he leaves Portland, I think this is another reason why Lillard is pushing Miami seeing how they've treated Butler in recent history.

How have we treated Butler in recent history? He's been here 4 years.

Right... at an older age. How many were ready to cash in on Butler after being swept in the first round? How many were ready to cash out on Butler this last season before the first round this year? Miami was/were going down multiple paths the last 4 years of trying to contend while also trying to develop their next big player, they didn't go in with either path although there were a ton of fans asking to move to the next iteration of this team. Just this board was quite split on trading Butler for multiple years but Miami understands it's quite hard to find a gamechanger like Butler which should be the same thinking for Portland with Lillard but obviously isn't.

This is where consistency means a ton, Portland's FO is basically a new FO and with that, all the equity that Lillard built up with Portland is basically wasted and he's seeing that right before his eyes since signing that extension.

[IceColdCubano]

Bammys prediction of this not going passed July is looking ever so bleak.....this is starting to look like a night before start of training camp deal.

[Spo COY]

I like the idea of Miami going "look, here's our offer... this might not be there at the deadline." At the very least I think it makes Portland consider getting rid of him by training camp. Other than that, Portland is doing the smart thing here unfortunately. They have no reason to rush this, and the Heat do.

You guys don't understand. The Heat doesn't hurt Cronin at all by pulling the offer. If we pull our offer, all that's going to do is force Dame to agree to get traded to teams that he's currently refusing to consider playing for.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not necessarily saying to pull the offer - just saying that maybe the offer won't look the same at the deadline. There's more that goes into it imo -- does Herro's value stay the same? What if Jovic looks like a future all star? Lowry's expiring, etc.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bammys prediction of this not going passed July is looking ever so bleak.....this is starting to look like a night before start of training camp deal.

Yours for this weekend looking even worse

[CrossOver]

Bammys prediction of this not going passed July is looking ever so bleak.....this is starting to look like a night before start of training camp deal.

I don't think it gets that close to training camp. I think it gets sorted in August, probably towards the latter half of the month. We've seen a number of big off-season trades end up taking place around that time.

[HEATVols865]

Barry saying that no meaningful talks from Portland’s side have taken place. Riley using the media now to counter Cronin.

[greg4012]

Good dose of perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/14wuzn5/how_long_does_it_usually_take_for_a_blockbuster/

A lot of us have been getting anxious about if and when a Damian Lillard deal will be made. Stemming from the boredom that comes from that anticipation, I looked at the length of some comparable offseason trade sagas where:

A. The trade demand/catalyst started in the offseason.
B. The trade was completed before the start of the next season.

So here are 6 deals from the last ~30 years that met those parameters:

Charles Barkley

6/5/1996-6/16/1996: Barkley threatens to retire if not traded to a contender in an interview with NBC during the Finals. Expresses desire to play for the Rockets.

8/19/1996: Barkley traded to Rockets

75 to 86 days

Tracy McGrady

6/18/2004: T-Mac requests a trade from Orlando

6/30/2004: McGrady dealt to Houston

12 days

Shaquille O’Neal

6/19/2004: Shaq demands a trade

7/11/2004: Lakers agree to trade Shaq to Miami

22 days

Kevin Garnett

6/28/2007: Celtics acquire Ray Allen on draft night. (This was the turning point where KG said he was open to getting traded to Boston)

7/31/2007:Kevin Garnett traded to Boston

33 days

Kyrie Irving

7/7/2017: Kyrie Irving demands trade

8/22/2017: Kyrie is traded to the Celtics

46 days

Kawhi Leonard

6/15/2018: Kawhi demands a trade to Los Angeles

7/18/2018: Kawhi traded to Toronto

33 days

Some takeaways:

the shortest period between trade demand and trade was the T-Mac deal to Houston, which was 12 days. We are on day 11 since Lillard formally requested a trade.

the longest period between trade demand and trade was the Barkley trade (also to Houston), where he dead-ass threatened to retire if he didn’t get traded to a contender, preferably the Rockets

Two trades (Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard) I was able to find specific “traded destination lists”. Neither was sent to their preferred destinations (Kawhi famously wanted to go to Los Angeles, Lakers or Clippers. Kyrie gave a list of San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and the Knicks)

None of these trades are 1:1 identical to the Lillard situation, but the KG trade saga is probably the closest: 12 years with the same team, 8 consecutive playoff appearances and 1 conference finals appearance, teams began shifting to a rebuild while they were still on the team, neither had/has a NTC but KG had enough standing in the org to nix a draft day deal to Boston (which ironically ended up becoming the Ray Allen trade that would sell Garnett on getting traded there later in the summer)

Let me know if I missed any other blockbusters that would fit in this group! Would love to add some other cases for further discussion.

Day 14 since the trade was requested

[AirP.]

I like the idea of Miami going "look, here's our offer... this might not be there at the deadline." At the very least I think it makes Portland consider getting rid of him by training camp. Other than that, Portland is doing the smart thing here unfortunately. They have no reason to rush this, and the Heat do.

You guys don't understand. The Heat doesn't hurt Cronin at all by pulling the offer. If we pull our offer, all that's going to do is force Dame to agree to get traded to teams that he's currently refusing to consider playing for.

Not if he's willing to sit out, even with his new team. Just have the agent put out there the next team Lillard will suit up for will be the Miami Heat and he's willing to lose a lot of money to do it.

Lillard is in a horrible situation; he's been loyal to a franchise that has decided his build is over and have started the next iteration of the team. It is highly likely if Lillard is moved it's not going to be the last time he's traded and like I mentioned before the Point God is now being traded all over the place in his last years of his career. I highly doubt someone who wanted to be loyal to one team is all ready to just get passed around the NBA as a bad salary and in a few years... an expiring salary. It's one of the worst situations I've seen for an NBA player that didn't have a career threatening injury (L.Ball in Chicago and I.Thomas in Boston which was ice cold pushing him to play injured then shipping him off without a new contract) have to go through.

Maybe Lillard opens his team list and gets sent somewhere he wants to go (even if it's not Miami), and he can stay there the entirety of his contract and not get passed around like Chris Paul. It's just a bad situation for someone who was so loyal to a smaller market team.

[IceColdCubano]

Bammys prediction of this not going passed July is looking ever so bleak.....this is starting to look like a night before start of training camp deal.

Yours for this weekend looking even worse

I know....im in shambles....and this dude Rapaz is really playing the part so well that im inches away from sending him hateful PMs with death threats.

[IceColdCubano]

Good dose of perspective:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heat/comments/14wuzn5/how_long_does_it_usually_take_for_a_blockbuster/

A lot of us have been getting anxious about if and when a Damian Lillard deal will be made. Stemming from the boredom that comes from that anticipation, I looked at the length of some comparable offseason trade sagas where:

A. The trade demand/catalyst started in the offseason.
B. The trade was completed before the start of the next season.

So here are 6 deals from the last ~30 years that met those parameters:

Charles Barkley

6/5/1996-6/16/1996: Barkley threatens to retire if not traded to a contender in an interview with NBC during the Finals. Expresses desire to play for the Rockets.

8/19/1996: Barkley traded to Rockets

75 to 86 days

Tracy McGrady

6/18/2004: T-Mac requests a trade from Orlando

6/30/2004: McGrady dealt to Houston

12 days

Shaquille O’Neal

6/19/2004: Shaq demands a trade

7/11/2004: Lakers agree to trade Shaq to Miami

22 days

Kevin Garnett

6/28/2007: Celtics acquire Ray Allen on draft night. (This was the turning point where KG said he was open to getting traded to Boston)

7/31/2007:Kevin Garnett traded to Boston

33 days

Kyrie Irving

7/7/2017: Kyrie Irving demands trade

8/22/2017: Kyrie is traded to the Celtics

46 days

Kawhi Leonard

6/15/2018: Kawhi demands a trade to Los Angeles

7/18/2018: Kawhi traded to Toronto

33 days

Some takeaways:

the shortest period between trade demand and trade was the T-Mac deal to Houston, which was 12 days. We are on day 11 since Lillard formally requested a trade.

the longest period between trade demand and trade was the Barkley trade (also to Houston), where he dead-ass threatened to retire if he didn’t get traded to a contender, preferably the Rockets

Two trades (Kyrie Irving and Kawhi Leonard) I was able to find specific “traded destination lists”. Neither was sent to their preferred destinations (Kawhi famously wanted to go to Los Angeles, Lakers or Clippers. Kyrie gave a list of San Antonio, Minnesota, Miami and the Knicks)

None of these trades are 1:1 identical to the Lillard situation, but the KG trade saga is probably the closest: 12 years with the same team, 8 consecutive playoff appearances and 1 conference finals appearance, teams began shifting to a rebuild while they were still on the team, neither had/has a NTC but KG had enough standing in the org to nix a draft day deal to Boston (which ironically ended up becoming the Ray Allen trade that would sell Garnett on getting traded there later in the summer)

Let me know if I missed any other blockbusters that would fit in this group! Would love to add some other cases for further discussion.

Day 14 since the trade was requested

Were passed the Tracy timeline and now heading into Shaq Timeline, lets see where this ends.

[IceColdCubano]

Barry saying that no meaningful talks from Portland’s side have taken place. Riley using the media now to counter Cronin.

Yeah Miami trying to put some urgency on this, theres posibilities these guys arent even interested talking just out of spite.