2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 2

[SA37]

Spoiler:

The problem giving up Ware for KD is that a windows with KD at this age is a short window. You save Ware for a larger window player if they become available.

In general, teams don't have more than a 3-4 year championship window for a variety of reasons, so I have no issue knowing Miami is looking at 2-3 years with Durant (and any combo of Westbrook, C Paul, B Lopez...etc Miami might bring back. OKC had a young core (Durant-Russ-Harden-Ibaka) and it seemed they'd compete for 10 years and we know how that went.

There is an argument that Ware could potentially expand that window if he somehow develops into the player some think he'll become. I don't see Ware becoming that kind of impact player, and the chances are higher he becomes Tyson Chandler (Remember when Chicago traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler?), Marcus Camby, or Hassan Whiteside than he becomes Wemby, AD, or Pau Gasol.

Yes, there is a gamble, but with KD-Herro-Bam, Miami can be confident it can get 2-3 vets to round out its roster -- just like it did when it was Butler-Herro-Bam -- and be a contender in the East, especially in light of Tatum's injury.
With Ware, Miami may never get be a contender because he may never become the player some people think he can be.

Psst—while team builds typically don’t have longer than 3-4 year windows, individual players can last providing value through multiple windows.

Now pair that consideration with the added value in cost-controlled players on rookie contracts opening up more team building avenues. And consider the reality that any KD window is more of a 1-2 year window

Right, but the crux of our disagreement is whether Ware can be that player. My prediction is he is going to be a role player -- possibly a good, productive one -- but a role player. You're suggesting you think he can be an all-star-ish or better player. To me, that's just standard irrational exuberance fan bases are consistently guilty of (no issue with that; we all can dream, right?).

Miami doesn't have another obvious path to acquiring an alpha/#1 option, 1st team all-NBA players because Miami has "cost-controlled players". And that is what Miami needs. Miami has plenty of options to acquire "cost-controlled" players, but here we're talking about veterans willing to take the minimum or sign for the exceptions to play for a contender.

Again, for me it comes down to Ware being replaceable and Durant not being replaceable.

[Shewasfly]

Trading for KD loses a good half of it's appeal if Ware has to be included. The whole point is to essentially have a huge front court of Ware-Bam-KD. That type of size instantly makes you a formidable opponent, especially when it includes a highly skilled player like KD.

I just can't see the point of the deal if Ware is included.

[Flash4thewin]

Read on Twitter

Probably fake report but wouldn’t shock me if true. If Ware is included we better be keeping all of our picks along with Jovic and JJJ.

I dont think they care or value Jovic / JJJ. Ware makes too much sense, and this year pick because its salary off the books to make another trade or to resign Mitchell. Some variation of what you posted, Duncan + Wiggins + Ware and this year pick. That lets us keep Jovic and JJJ and we have all of our other picks to make moves.

[EMC5466]

Read on Twitter

?s=61

[SA37]

Read on Twitter

Gross. Although if it is for Rozier and Jaquez or something like that and Miami isn't giving Kuminga insane money...

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

In general, teams don't have more than a 3-4 year championship window for a variety of reasons, so I have no issue knowing Miami is looking at 2-3 years with Durant (and any combo of Westbrook, C Paul, B Lopez...etc Miami might bring back. OKC had a young core (Durant-Russ-Harden-Ibaka) and it seemed they'd compete for 10 years and we know how that went.

There is an argument that Ware could potentially expand that window if he somehow develops into the player some think he'll become. I don't see Ware becoming that kind of impact player, and the chances are higher he becomes Tyson Chandler (Remember when Chicago traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler?), Marcus Camby, or Hassan Whiteside than he becomes Wemby, AD, or Pau Gasol.

Yes, there is a gamble, but with KD-Herro-Bam, Miami can be confident it can get 2-3 vets to round out its roster -- just like it did when it was Butler-Herro-Bam -- and be a contender in the East, especially in light of Tatum's injury.
With Ware, Miami may never get be a contender because he may never become the player some people think he can be.

Psst—while team builds typically don’t have longer than 3-4 year windows, individual players can last providing value through multiple windows.

Now pair that consideration with the added value in cost-controlled players on rookie contracts opening up more team building avenues. And consider the reality that any KD window is more of a 1-2 year window

Right, but the crux of our disagreement is whether Ware can be that player. My prediction is he is going to be a role player -- possibly a good, productive one -- but a role player. You're suggesting you think he can be an all-star-ish or better player. To me, that's just standard irrational exuberance fan bases are consistently guilty of (no issue with that; we all can dream, right?).

Miami doesn't have another obvious path to acquiring an alpha/#1 option, 1st team all-NBA players because Miami has "cost-controlled players". And that is what Miami needs. Miami has plenty of options to acquire "cost-controlled" players, but here we're talking about veterans willing to take the minimum or sign for the exceptions to play for a contender.

Again, for me it comes down to Ware being replaceable and Durant not being replaceable.

lol where did I predict Ware to be an All-Star? Please advise.

I’m just not overly thirsty to throw anything and everything out the door for Durant’s last legs (and this is coming from someone who has consistently pushed back against those acting like Durant would be anything less than a great acquisition).

Lines in sand.

[Shewasfly]

Read on Twitter

?s=61

What?
Ew, no.

I want him gone as soon as possible lol. Take his weird, solitary stan with him.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

SHAMS WHERE ARE YOU?!?!?!?!

[oreon]

You don't trade Ware for 37 year old KD in any effin scenario. And I wouldnt trade the any more picks outside this year 20th.

We are almost out of picks purgatory. Once Hornets conveys in 2027, we will have our full arsenal of 1st rounders and be able to make a mega offer in case an all nba guy in their prime asks out. Whenever these guys do, we never have enough pick to move

The KD trade is a swing for the fences move. Everyone here admits it likely won't result in a ring. I am against it. But I understand why they are going for it with Celtics hurt. So do it with assets you can afford to loose. Jovic, Wiggins, JJJ, 20th pick and that's it.

Anything more, walk away. He's 37 and we have to extend him and he's a injury risk. The trade can turn out like Dame, where its an albatross contract due to age/injury. So I hope the FO isn't desperate and is willing to walk away

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

[SA37]

10 day window until draft. If nothing happens by then, I don't expect it to happen personally. Even if something is trending towards happening, can't be surprised if it drags on until that deadline. More opps for media leaks and attempts to juice up the offer.

I think the Suns really want another young piece in this draft.

Hell if Miami ends up trading away Ware for KD, then we better keep our draft capital. Give me Thomas Sorber if he's there at 20 (I think he'll be gone by then)

IF Miami includes Ware, I would expect either Wiggins won't be included or Miami won't include Robinson or something to that effect. Miami will need to keep some ammunition to execute another trade if it misses out on the cheaper, high-value vet FAs, like Westbook, Paul, Lopez...etc.

[Beenie]

Nice, looks like this will drag on per usual.

Nothing is ever easy for us like ever.

Dipo trade was done literally at he last minute.

Pat is a stingy guy

[greg4012]

legit question: did anybody see defense from Wiggins in Miami this season that moved the needle at all?

[SA37]

Spoiler:

Psst—while team builds typically don’t have longer than 3-4 year windows, individual players can last providing value through multiple windows.

Now pair that consideration with the added value in cost-controlled players on rookie contracts opening up more team building avenues. And consider the reality that any KD window is more of a 1-2 year window

Right, but the crux of our disagreement is whether Ware can be that player. My prediction is he is going to be a role player -- possibly a good, productive one -- but a role player. You're suggesting you think he can be an all-star-ish or better player. To me, that's just standard irrational exuberance fan bases are consistently guilty of (no issue with that; we all can dream, right?).

Miami doesn't have another obvious path to acquiring an alpha/#1 option, 1st team all-NBA players because Miami has "cost-controlled players". And that is what Miami needs. Miami has plenty of options to acquire "cost-controlled" players, but here we're talking about veterans willing to take the minimum or sign for the exceptions to play for a contender.

Again, for me it comes down to Ware being replaceable and Durant not being replaceable.

lol where did I predict Ware to be an All-Star? Please advise.

I’m just not overly thirsty to throw anything and everything out the door for Durant’s last legs (and this is coming from someone who has consistently pushed back against those acting like Durant would be anything less than a great acquisition).

Lines in sand.

You seem to be suggesting it, but you can clarify. Do think Ware is going to be a perennial all-star, perennial all-NBA guy Miami could potentially build its team around at some point in his career?

[MettaWorldPanda]

I’m still trying to figure out the offer that beats Wiggins, Jovic or JJJ and 20th pick along with salary relief. Who’s giving up a prospect of Ware’s magnitude in any of these deals? And who are the young prospects? Dillingham and the 17th pick is probably the counter right now.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Randle, DiVincenzo, Miller, Dillingham, and 17th pick is potentially what we are bidding against right now with BK getting involved.

[greg4012]

Right, but the crux of our disagreement is whether Ware can be that player. My prediction is he is going to be a role player -- possibly a good, productive one -- but a role player. You're suggesting you think he can be an all-star-ish or better player. To me, that's just standard irrational exuberance fan bases are consistently guilty of (no issue with that; we all can dream, right?).

Miami doesn't have another obvious path to acquiring an alpha/#1 option, 1st team all-NBA players because Miami has "cost-controlled players". And that is what Miami needs. Miami has plenty of options to acquire "cost-controlled" players, but here we're talking about veterans willing to take the minimum or sign for the exceptions to play for a contender.

Again, for me it comes down to Ware being replaceable and Durant not being replaceable.

lol where did I predict Ware to be an All-Star? Please advise.

I’m just not overly thirsty to throw anything and everything out the door for Durant’s last legs (and this is coming from someone who has consistently pushed back against those acting like Durant would be anything less than a great acquisition).

Lines in sand.

You seem to be suggesting it, but you can clarify. Do think Ware is going to be a perennial all-star, perennial all-NBA guy Miami could potentially build its team around at some point in his career?

I think he has potential. None of this stuff is certain. But, the effects of him realizing his potential are exponential impact as a force multiplier.

I also place a lot of value and importance on the dynamics that actually impact team building and acquiring rare skillsets. Contract makeups, leveraging value contracts, future planning with trade capital and draft assets, etc.

I mostly just wholly reject a decisionmaking process that is primarily rooted in limiting analysis to something like "KD good today and Ware not as good today so not trading Ware for KD is not good".

Getting too thirsty for these gambles results in getting the player and not being positioned to do anything with said player.

It's so far from being all about Ware for me, as I've clearly laid out in my posts if you pay attention. Cost of acquisition. Lines in sand.

[SA37]

I’m still trying to figure out the offer that beats Wiggins, Jovic or JJJ and 20th pick along with salary relief. Who’s giving up a prospect of Ware’s magnitude in any of these deals? And who are the young prospects? Dillingham and the 17th pick is probably the counter right now.

Gobert, DVV/Conley, Dillingham, and #17 would be a better offer, if only because Gobert fills a massive hole for Phoenix and Dillingham is supposedly killing it in scrimmages and such. Wiggins can't claim to be all-NBA anything, Gobert can.

Then it kind of depends which teams we're discussing, but the Spurs and Houston could put in a pretty good offer, especially if a 3rd team gets involved.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I’m still trying to figure out the offer that beats Wiggins, Jovic or JJJ and 20th pick along with salary relief. Who’s giving up a prospect of Ware’s magnitude in any of these deals? And who are the young prospects? Dillingham and the 17th pick is probably the counter right now.

Gobert, DVV/Conley, Dillingham, and #17 would be a better offer, if only because Gobert fills a massive hole for Phoenix and Dillingham is supposedly killing it in scrimmages and such. Wiggins can't claim to be all-NBA anything, Gobert can.

Then it kind of depends which teams we're discussing, but the Spurs and Houston could put in a pretty good offer, especially if a 3rd team gets involved.

I don’t think Gobert is going anywhere. Randle’s expiring makes more sense and it’s flippable for someone like Claxton.

[lastb1ckman]

Bane is much lower on the scouting report than Herro and is doesnt have the ball handling Herro does. If Bane was in Herro's position this season, we'd likely not have even been a play in team. Its the same situation as with Reeves on the Lakers. Bane is going to a great situation with Franz and Paolo drawing all the attention. Thats his ideal role. (Even thought the Magic wayyyyy over paid)

Youre seriously giving credit to Herro for leading us to a .450 record this season like thats an accomplishment?

Ill tell you one thing for sure, Ty Jerome isnt clamping Bane and scoring 25 on him either.

Yeah because they have to worry about Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson first. Thats the point I'm making. People keep propping up SGs who are third options over Herro when he has the attention of the entire opposing team on him at all times all season long. And even then its not like he any less efficient than these guys either! Averaging more points on similar TS%. With Reaves he has either had freaking Anthony Davis/Lebron or Lebron/Luka drawing all the attention. This season Herro either had mentally checked out Jimmy or Bam dealing with the worst shooting slump of his entire career next to him. Do you really think if we switched Desmond Bane with Herro this season, he'd have had a better season?