2025 Playoffs: Round 1, Game 2: Heatz v Cabs - 7:30pm EST on 4/23

[Shewasfly]

Just need the Cavs to not get searing hot for a half again and just a little more offensive output from Bam & Wiggins. I think we have to design plays for Wiggins to score. I think he might be good off the ball moving around when Niko is in instead of pinning Wiggins to the corner or 3pt line. I don't think Wiggins is as bad on offense as he seemed tonight.

The Cavs arent THAT good. We just cant have zero offensive performances from our big contracts.

Take Herro out of the mix and our 4 biggest contracts are Rozier, Duncan, Wiggins and Bam.

They combined for 24 points tonight.

This is wild. Herro going toe-to-toe with Donovan feels like some kind of miracle.

Even crazier to think because it was with Donovan having to do absolutely no work on D while Herro got hunted again. Props to Herro for a great bounce back game.

[Beenie]

Cavs still finished at 49% from 3 btw which is ridiculous. If they shoot 40% which is still extremely high as a team we win.

That's not to say they don't deserve credit, but this series isn't as bad as it looks. Still think we're obviously another star away from real contender status but I'm also leaning towards Cleveland potentially being a bit fraudulent, but then, I don't really see anyone in the east as great right now, the top two teams are both way too over reliant on the 3-point shot.

From what I can tell, Cavs are extremely versatile and are capable of playing multiple styles when it suits them to

I think people are still sleeping on them as a legit title contender



Then again maybe I'm just too old and need to accept this league is a 3-point league now and forever moving forward. I dunno.

[marson]

The Cavs arent THAT good. We just cant have zero offensive performances from our big contracts.

Take Herro out of the mix and our 4 biggest contracts are Rozier, Duncan, Wiggins and Bam.

They combined for 24 points tonight.

This is wild. Herro going toe-to-toe with Donovan feels like some kind of miracle.

Man imagine if he didn't have T-Rex arms, he might actually have top 10 player potential. Its funny, I feel like they're almost inversing each other because while I think Mitchell's pretty great, he still feels slightly disappointing like I thought he might have become a top 5 player by now, and he's just sort of really good without being dominant/great, while Tyler was supposed to be just another low IQ chucker and he basically got near Mitchell's level this year.

Still just 25, still time to get stronger. But it seems like he earned a lot more respect from the refs this year. Almost pulled it off tonight

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Combining for just 59 points over two games, Wiggins and Bam both earning under $30 million, need to step up their offensive output. That level of production is simply not acceptable given their contracts. Herro needs help offensively.

That’s not the point you were making though, you were nitpicking 1 game to prop up a player and **** on the others but your whole basis was about winning matchups. 1 of those players has won their matchup based on the standard you’re holding them to. I’m not even arguing anything, I’m just calling out the Wild nitpicking from you and then not even backing the own argument you’re trying to make when it gets corrected lol

Not even trying to nitpick here, but getting just 59 points combined from the other two so-called top players over two games isn't cutting it. But hey, do your thing.

I’m not doing anything is the thing, not even defending Bam here although I don’t agree with having him in a Shane battier spot up shooter role tonight. Was just pointing out that you’re using PPG from matchups to determine how guys are doing in the series. You propped up a guy losing his matchup for the series compared to another guy winning his matchup (based solely on PPG which is a terrible way to view the game) by narrowing it down to a 1 game sample size. “I knew Herro would cancel out his matchup (he hasn’t) but we need more from Bam and Wiggins” painting it as they were both losing their matchup while Herro was playing to Mitchell’s level or above. While also discrediting the importance of defense and other aspects of the game throughout the night.

And again, I’m not arguing Bam was great and Herro was bad or none of that I’m just pointing out the nitpicking. The fact is, PPG wise Herro has a good game and a bad game, bam has a good game and a bad game, Wiggins has 2 bad games and is getting destroyed in the matchup you gave him with Garland.

[K N U C K L E S]

Imagine if we were able to keep Strus and get rid of Stuncan

The Fraudfather thought it was smarter to play a G-Leaguer $90 million.

Is Riley the Biden of the NBA? Maybe he only knows how to build a team for the NBA of 20+ years ago? He's really old school, so I can't imagine he that he likes the current 3 point insanity era, so why would he want to build a team to conform to it?

My only criticism of Riley is that he's hanging on for too long. Any other team besides the Spurs would kill for the last 30 years that the Heat have had.

[marson]

That’s not the point you were making though, you were nitpicking 1 game to prop up a player and **** on the others but your whole basis was about winning matchups. 1 of those players has won their matchup based on the standard you’re holding them to. I’m not even arguing anything, I’m just calling out the Wild nitpicking from you and then not even backing the own argument you’re trying to make when it gets corrected lol

Not even trying to nitpick here, but getting just 59 points combined from the other two so-called top players over two games isn't cutting it. But hey, do your thing.

I’m not doing anything is the thing, not even defending Bam here although I don’t agree with having him in a Shane battier spot up shooter role tonight. Was just pointing out that you’re using PPG from matchups to determine how guys are doing in the series. You propped up a guy losing his matchup for the series compared to another guy winning his matchup (based solely on PPG which is a terrible way to view the game) by narrowing it down to a 1 game sample size. “I knew Herro would cancel out his matchup (he hasn’t) but we need more from Bam and Wiggins” painting it as they were both losing their matchup while Herro was playing to Mitchell’s level or above. While also discrediting the importance of defense and other aspects of the game throughout the night.

And again, I’m not arguing Bam was great and Herro was bad or none of that I’m just pointing out the nitpicking. The fact is, PPG wise Herro has a good game and a bad game, bam has a good game and a bad game, Wiggins has 2 bad games and is getting destroyed in the matchup you gave him with Garland.

Sure buddy everyone knows. I'd imagine if Herro scores 11 pts this game, you will lead the brigade

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Imagine if we were able to keep Strus and get rid of Stuncan

The Fraudfather thought it was smarter to play a G-Leaguer $90 million.

Is Riley the Biden of the NBA? Maybe he only knows how to build a team for the NBA of 20+ years ago? He's really old school, so I can't imagine he that he likes the current 3 point insanity era, so why would he want to build a team to conform to it?

My only criticism of Riley is that he's hanging on for too long. Any other team besides the Spurs would kill for the last 30 years that the Heat have had.

Riley is also the guy who helped identify a lot of these undrafteds and g-leaguers and mid to late first round picks. Riley also was the guy who had faith in Herro, a guy who is performing at the level of a Damian Lillard, the guy he was supposed to be traded for (along with the rest of our youth AND picks).

He hasn't hit a home run in a while, but if you're going to criticize him for his strikeouts you gotta credit him for the smaller hits as well. And the fact is most teams don't get their home run outside of getting lucky in the draft, or you get a Luka situation which I'm sorry, the NBA totally set that up.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The Cavs arent THAT good. We just cant have zero offensive performances from our big contracts.

Take Herro out of the mix and our 4 biggest contracts are Rozier, Duncan, Wiggins and Bam.

They combined for 24 points tonight.

This is wild. Herro going toe-to-toe with Donovan feels like some kind of miracle.

Man imagine if he didn't have T-Rex arms, he might actually have top 10 player potential. Its funny, I feel like they're almost inversing each other because while I think Mitchell's pretty great, he still feels slightly disappointing like I thought he might have become a top 5 player by now, and he's just sort of really good without being dominant/great, while Tyler was supposed to be just another low IQ chucker and he basically got near Mitchell's level this year.

Not even knocking Herro but Mitchell is doing it while leading the 1st seed in the East while Herro is putting up numbers on a 10 seed. We won’t say Lavine is on Mitchell’s level, we say he puts up empty numbers on a bad team.

Someone said it earlier but Mitchell has yet to really sweat in this series and he completely took over down the stretch tonight, maybe we can change that back home.

I’m really hoping we add some legit talent next to Bam/Tyler this summer and see how these guys play on a team that hopefully wins a lot of games. We were not out of either of these games by any means, we just couldn’t find the right combo at the right time to weather the storm. Let them jump out to too big of a lead tonight, last game just couldn’t break through that 6-8 point deficit

[Tim_Hardawayy]

This is wild. Herro going toe-to-toe with Donovan feels like some kind of miracle.

Man imagine if he didn't have T-Rex arms, he might actually have top 10 player potential. Its funny, I feel like they're almost inversing each other because while I think Mitchell's pretty great, he still feels slightly disappointing like I thought he might have become a top 5 player by now, and he's just sort of really good without being dominant/great, while Tyler was supposed to be just another low IQ chucker and he basically got near Mitchell's level this year.

Not even knocking Herro but Mitchell is doing it while leading the 1st seed in the East while Herro is putting up numbers on a 10 seed. We won’t say Lavine is on Mitchell’s level, we say he puts up empty numbers on a bad team.

Someone said it earlier but Mitchell has yet to really sweat in this series and he completely took over down the stretch tonight, maybe we can change that back home.

I’m really hoping we add some legit talent next to Bam/Tyler this summer and see how these guys play on a team that hopefully wins a lot of games. We were not out of either of these games by any means, we just couldn’t find the right combo at the right time to weather the storm. Let them jump out to too big of a lead tonight, last game just couldn’t break through that 6-8 point deficit

I mean Tyler's done it 3 of the last 4 games, including the 2 play-in games. And he was doing it all season long. Comparing him to Lavine feels disrespectful if you watch both guys play, Tyler gets picked on physically but he's trying and making the right plays usually. And I was one of the first to criticize him in years past, he was not the same guy in 2023 which is a shame because I feel like this version of Tyler on that team and we might have given Denver a run.

Unless you think his agent reads this board, in which case I agree, Tyler is very overrated and he'll be lucky to get 40 million a season on the open market so he should definitely sign for 120 on that extension.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Not even trying to nitpick here, but getting just 59 points combined from the other two so-called top players over two games isn't cutting it. But hey, do your thing.

I’m not doing anything is the thing, not even defending Bam here although I don’t agree with having him in a Shane battier spot up shooter role tonight. Was just pointing out that you’re using PPG from matchups to determine how guys are doing in the series. You propped up a guy losing his matchup for the series compared to another guy winning his matchup (based solely on PPG which is a terrible way to view the game) by narrowing it down to a 1 game sample size. “I knew Herro would cancel out his matchup (he hasn’t) but we need more from Bam and Wiggins” painting it as they were both losing their matchup while Herro was playing to Mitchell’s level or above. While also discrediting the importance of defense and other aspects of the game throughout the night.

And again, I’m not arguing Bam was great and Herro was bad or none of that I’m just pointing out the nitpicking. The fact is, PPG wise Herro has a good game and a bad game, bam has a good game and a bad game, Wiggins has 2 bad games and is getting destroyed in the matchup you gave him with Garland.

Sure buddy everyone knows. I'd imagine if Herro scores 11 pts this game, you will lead the brigade

Probably so considering that’s just about all he brings to the table and the reason why he is paid. At least when Bam isn’t scoring he’s impacting the game in many other ways, 1 assist off a triple double tonight and one of the few players tonight with a positive +/- along with your boy. He won’t struggle to score AND be targeted and give up points on a 1.78PPP basis.

[marson]

You just love the double standards here. We put Herro on a high pedestal on defense when he has an offensive outing, while we can't put other players on an offensive pedestal because they are playing elite defense. The mental gymnastics is insane

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Man imagine if he didn't have T-Rex arms, he might actually have top 10 player potential. Its funny, I feel like they're almost inversing each other because while I think Mitchell's pretty great, he still feels slightly disappointing like I thought he might have become a top 5 player by now, and he's just sort of really good without being dominant/great, while Tyler was supposed to be just another low IQ chucker and he basically got near Mitchell's level this year.

Not even knocking Herro but Mitchell is doing it while leading the 1st seed in the East while Herro is putting up numbers on a 10 seed. We won’t say Lavine is on Mitchell’s level, we say he puts up empty numbers on a bad team.

Someone said it earlier but Mitchell has yet to really sweat in this series and he completely took over down the stretch tonight, maybe we can change that back home.

I’m really hoping we add some legit talent next to Bam/Tyler this summer and see how these guys play on a team that hopefully wins a lot of games. We were not out of either of these games by any means, we just couldn’t find the right combo at the right time to weather the storm. Let them jump out to too big of a lead tonight, last game just couldn’t break through that 6-8 point deficit

I mean Tyler's done it 3 of the last 4 games, including the 2 play-in games. And he was doing it all season long. Comparing him to Lavine feels disrespectful if you watch both guys play, Tyler gets picked on physically but he's trying and making the right plays usually. And I was one of the first to criticize him in years past, he was not the same guy in 2023 which is a shame because I feel like this version of Tyler on that team and we might have given Denver a run.

Unless you think his agent reads this board, in which case I agree, Tyler is very overrated and he'll be lucky to get 40 million a season on the open market so he should definitely sign for 120 on that extension.

That’s a small 4 game sample size though, this team is the 10th seed and 37-45. I was assuming you all were saying Herro was close to Mitchell’s level because of the basic stats being similar, Lavine is right there too and more efficient than both. I don’t think either are near Mitchell

[VaDe255]

This is wild. Herro going toe-to-toe with Donovan feels like some kind of miracle.

Man imagine if he didn't have T-Rex arms, he might actually have top 10 player potential. Its funny, I feel like they're almost inversing each other because while I think Mitchell's pretty great, he still feels slightly disappointing like I thought he might have become a top 5 player by now, and he's just sort of really good without being dominant/great, while Tyler was supposed to be just another low IQ chucker and he basically got near Mitchell's level this year.

Still just 25, still time to get stronger. But it seems like he earned a lot more respect from the refs this year. Almost pulled it off tonight

Donovan's definitely still a tier above Tyler. I wouldn't call him a true franchise guy either. That label's reserved for Luka, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.

51 from Davion/Tyler on 33 shots vs 51 from Donovan/Garland on 35 is basically a wash. That backcourt’s legit, Tyler and Davion is a really good fit. They just need that top-tier wing to round it out.

I don't even think a PG is a priority anymore, just get a solid backup. What they really need is a high-level wing, and that’s the tough part. The draft lottery was their shot to get hands on some talent and now they’re in a position where they basically have to stumble into the right trade with the somewhat limited assets they have. It’s gonna be tough unless something weird breaks their way, otherwise they just continue to be mid.

[Kobewade11]

You just love the double standards here. We put Herro on a high pedestal on defense when he has an offensive outing, while we can't put other players on an offensive pedestal because they are playing elite defense. The mental gymnastics is insane

On the plus side, Bam usually has an aggressive game after he gets lit up on social media so he should at least look better at home for game 3

[3ammy3uck3ts]

You just love the double standards here. We put Herro on a high pedestal on defense when he has an offensive outing, while we can't put other players on an offensive pedestal because they are playing elite defense. The mental gymnastics is insane

That’s not what I said at all

Who do you think did more over the course of a game, Herro who scored 11 or Bam who scored 11?

[Tim_Hardawayy]

That’s a small 4 game sample size though, this team is the 10th seed and 37-45. I was assuming you all were saying Herro was close to Mitchell’s level because of the basic stats being similar, Lavine is right there too and more efficient than both. I don’t think either are near Mitchell

Its not a 4 game sample size unless you're blaming Tyler for the record, which I think is unfair considering the overall state of the roster this year. You had guys in and out of the lineup along with the Jimmy situation.

It's also about how guys play to get their numbers, Lavine's offense is smooth but he doesn't lift his teammates up and on defense with him its not like he can't compete, he's just a sieve that doesn't even put in effort. Look at each guy's VORP, Tyler is much closer to Mitchell than he is to LaVine and if I'm being honest it feels like you're just trying to bury him a bit to make a point about how valuable Bam is. Which is dumb, because I think both guys are really valuable for different reasons and Heat fans shouldn't be pitting them against each other.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Man imagine if he didn't have T-Rex arms, he might actually have top 10 player potential. Its funny, I feel like they're almost inversing each other because while I think Mitchell's pretty great, he still feels slightly disappointing like I thought he might have become a top 5 player by now, and he's just sort of really good without being dominant/great, while Tyler was supposed to be just another low IQ chucker and he basically got near Mitchell's level this year.

Still just 25, still time to get stronger. But it seems like he earned a lot more respect from the refs this year. Almost pulled it off tonight

Donovan's definitely still a tier above Tyler. I wouldn't call him a true franchise guy either. That label's reserved for Luka, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.

51 from Davion/Tyler on 33 shots vs 51 from Donovan/Garland on 35 is basically a wash. That backcourt’s legit, Tyler and Davion is a really good fit. They just need that top-tier wing to round it out.

I don't even think a PG is a priority anymore, just get a solid backup. What they really need is a high-level wing, and that’s the tough part. The draft lottery was their shot to get hands on some talent and now they’re in a position where they basically have to stumble into the right trade with the somewhat limited assets they have. It’s gonna be tough unless something weird breaks their way, otherwise they just continue to be mid.

I feel like Wiggins is the perfect piece to get a disgruntled star since he's just good enough without coming across like a negative value player that teams will accept him as the main salary piece. We'll still have to probably give up a Ware or picks or both and maybe more though.

What do you guys think of Zion? If Heat culture keeps him healthy, I wonder. He can pass, but if we play him at the 3 our shooting suffers, and if its the 4 our defense probably suffers. Antman would fit perfectly but there's no way he's going anywhere at least next season.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

That’s a small 4 game sample size though, this team is the 10th seed and 37-45. I was assuming you all were saying Herro was close to Mitchell’s level because of the basic stats being similar, Lavine is right there too and more efficient than both. I don’t think either are near Mitchell

Its not a 4 game sample size unless you're blaming Tyler for the record, which I think is unfair considering the overall state of the roster this year. You had guys in and out of the lineup along with the Jimmy situation.

It's also about how guys play to get their numbers, Lavine's offense is smooth but he doesn't lift his teammates up and on defense with him its not like he can't compete, he's just a sieve that doesn't even put in effort. Look at each guy's VORP, Tyler is much closer to Mitchell than he is to LaVine and if I'm being honest it feels like you're just trying to bury him a bit to make a point about how valuable Bam is. Which is dumb, because I think both guys are really valuable for different reasons and Heat fans shouldn't be pitting them against each other.

I’m not even mentioning Bam and I think Tyler has had a really good season, his best by far. I’m just saying we can’t prop Herro up to a Mitchell level when 1 is doing it on an elite team compared to a mediocre team. If we were on the outside looking in when normally say “I don’t want so and so he’s putting up empty stats on a bad team”.

Thats why I’m saying hopefully we can get some legit help in here this summer and see how these guys show up on (hopefully) a winning team playing at a high level every night

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Still just 25, still time to get stronger. But it seems like he earned a lot more respect from the refs this year. Almost pulled it off tonight

Donovan's definitely still a tier above Tyler. I wouldn't call him a true franchise guy either. That label's reserved for Luka, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.

51 from Davion/Tyler on 33 shots vs 51 from Donovan/Garland on 35 is basically a wash. That backcourt’s legit, Tyler and Davion is a really good fit. They just need that top-tier wing to round it out.

I don't even think a PG is a priority anymore, just get a solid backup. What they really need is a high-level wing, and that’s the tough part. The draft lottery was their shot to get hands on some talent and now they’re in a position where they basically have to stumble into the right trade with the somewhat limited assets they have. It’s gonna be tough unless something weird breaks their way, otherwise they just continue to be mid.

I feel like Wiggins is the perfect piece to get a disgruntled star since he's just good enough without coming across like a negative value player that teams will accept him as the main salary piece. We'll still have to probably give up a Ware or picks or both and maybe more though.

What do you guys think of Zion? If Heat culture keeps him healthy, I wonder. He can pass, but if we play him at the 3 our shooting suffers, and if its the 4 our defense probably suffers. Antman would fit perfectly but there's no way he's going anywhere at least next season.

I’d be down to take the gamble on Zion then I guess ware becomes your backup getting all the bench minutes behind Zion and Bam. Zion has a lot of opt outs to save you from his contract.

I think Ant is a summer 2026 guy

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Marson I’m sorry for calling out the nitpicking, we can just settle it with this. Based on your criteria, good games so far this series:

Bam - 1
Herro - 1
Wiggins - 0

Winning their matchup based on your PPG criteria:

Bam - yes
Herro - close but not quite
Wiggins - getting destroyed