Moderators: KingDavid, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44, QUIZ, heat4life
Heat_Down_Under wrote:MettaWorldPanda wrote:Blow it up and become the Wizards or keep running out the same scrubs. I’ll choose adding Durant and giving Bam and Herro a punchers chance with some smart signings.
I wish we were the wizards right now and get cooper flagg
Daffy wrote:People want to trade both Herro and Bam. It's no guarantee the picks we receive will even turn into players as good as Herro or Bam.
VaDe255 wrote:Daffy wrote:People want to trade both Herro and Bam. It's no guarantee the picks we receive will even turn into players as good as Herro or Bam.
There’s no guarantee the picks you get for Herro or Bam turn into better players, but you also don’t build contenders by clinging to fringe top-50 guys on big contracts. These are solid players, but they don’t shift playoff outcomes or raise your ceiling.
What you can do is flip them for picks, cap flexibility, and multiple chances to find a top 10 guy because that’s what actually wins titles. You don’t win by locking into good-not-great cores forever, especially if you don’t even have cap flexibility or draft assets.
Even if you end up with marginally worse versions of Herro or Bam, you could still be better off simply because you’ve cleared cap space and positioned yourself to add a true needle-mover (e.g., like the Cavs did when they traded for Donovan).
I mentioned it before this whole thing would look much better if Herro and Bam were earlier in their careers, and if there were a stocked cupboard of picks and assets along with cap flexibility. But that’s simply not where the Heat are. Forcing another trade now will just delay the inevitable, and they’ll continue to remain mid.
Chalm Downs wrote:his nickname is boywonder ffs
RexBoyWonder wrote:
2) Coaching staff and front office also HAS TO CHANGE. things got stale. Their thinking got outdated. They're behind the times. They desperately need fresh ideas, fresh blood. Worst coaching year from Spo, and front office put in him in a horrible position with too many mistakes these last few years.
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i dont know what your point really is here. the heat is already a 10th seed type of team something that just a few years ago woulda disqualify them from the playoffs. this team is already bad. these losses werent an aberration they have become the norm. are you okay with 3 play in seasons and if things doesnt change a 4th?MettaWorldPanda wrote:Heat_Down_Under wrote:MettaWorldPanda wrote:Blow it up and become the Wizards or keep running out the same scrubs. I’ll choose adding Durant and giving Bam and Herro a punchers chance with some smart signings.
I wish we were the wizards right now and get cooper flagg
Wizards will get Flagg and still only win about 20 games
i agree you cannot put a lipstick on a pigRexBoyWonder wrote:Still recovering from that nightmare ending of the season TBH.
Couldn't bring myself to read the thread, So for now I'll just sum up my 3 core beliefs :
1) NO ONE on this roster in untradeable. No one. losing like we did means no one earned the right to stay here if there's a good offer. Bam included.
2) Coaching staff and front office also HAS TO CHANGE. things got stale. Their thinking got outdated. They're behind the times. They desperately need fresh ideas, fresh blood. Worst coaching year from Spo, and front office put in him in a horrible position with too many mistakes these last few years.
3) Don't try to put a band aid on it. 37 YO Kevin Durant is NOT the cure for what we saw in that Cavs series. We need to go young and rebuild. We have some pieces. This team have on leadership, and no real identity. We need to build something new, not to try to plug holes on a chit ship. An over the hill injury prone star won't make things better, it will just postpone the inevitable and leave us in an even worst position in a year or 2.
If you all would of taken my advice when I told you all its a transition season and its about player developments you wouldn't have sufferedRexBoyWonder wrote:Still recovering from that nightmare ending of the season TBH.
Couldn't bring myself to read the thread, So for now I'll just sum up my 3 core beliefs :
1) NO ONE on this roster in untradeable. No one. losing like we did means no one earned the right to stay here if there's a good offer. Bam included.
2) Coaching staff and front office also HAS TO CHANGE. things got stale. Their thinking got outdated. They're behind the times. They desperately need fresh ideas, fresh blood. Worst coaching year from Spo, and front office put in him in a horrible position with too many mistakes these last few years.
3) Don't try to put a band aid on it. 37 YO Kevin Durant is NOT the cure for what we saw in that Cavs series. We need to go young and rebuild. We have some pieces. This team have on leadership, and no real identity. We need to build something new, not to try to plug holes on a chit ship. An over the hill injury prone star won't make things better, it will just postpone the inevitable and leave us in an even worst position in a year or 2.
well the development part was pretty retar-ded because eveyoone played really bad with the exception of davion.hell even jaime regressed greatly. pelle had his good moments but lets get real he sucked too.besides if the heat were in to real player development they would have used the guys that they sent to G/d leagues for developmentstwix2500 wrote:If you all would of taken my advice when I told you all its a transition season and its about player developments you wouldn't have sufferedRexBoyWonder wrote:Still recovering from that nightmare ending of the season TBH.
Couldn't bring myself to read the thread, So for now I'll just sum up my 3 core beliefs :
1) NO ONE on this roster in untradeable. No one. losing like we did means no one earned the right to stay here if there's a good offer. Bam included.
2) Coaching staff and front office also HAS TO CHANGE. things got stale. Their thinking got outdated. They're behind the times. They desperately need fresh ideas, fresh blood. Worst coaching year from Spo, and front office put in him in a horrible position with too many mistakes these last few years.
3) Don't try to put a band aid on it. 37 YO Kevin Durant is NOT the cure for what we saw in that Cavs series. We need to go young and rebuild. We have some pieces. This team have on leadership, and no real identity. We need to build something new, not to try to plug holes on a chit ship. An over the hill injury prone star won't make things better, it will just postpone the inevitable and leave us in an even worst position in a year or 2.
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eddieheatfan wrote:well the development part was pretty retar-ded because eveyoone played really bad with the exception of davion.hell even jaime regressed greatly. pelle had his good moments but lets get real he sucked too.besides if the heat were in to real player development they would have used the guys that they sent to G/d leagues for developments
VaDe255 wrote:greg4012 wrote:Regarding Boston--they were the beneficiaries of one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history courtesy of pure incompetence on the part of Billy King.
It's not like they cut bait with their stars early in an anticipatory fashion. Ray Allen chose to leave Boston to go to Miami. Then Boston was a shell of itself, going 500 on the season, and flopped in round 1 of the 2014 playoffs vs the knicks. Paul Pierce was traded going into his age 36 season where he had just put up 18 ppg and had just shot 37% FG in the playoffs and Kevin Garnett was a 37 years old shell of himself averaging 14.8 ppg and career worst defensive impact across the board.
Billy King traded 3FRPs and a FRP swap (no protections and each conveyed in the next 3 seasons). As anyone could have predicted when trading for a washed 36 year old Pierce and 37 year old Garnett, those picks turned into 2 top 3 picks--Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum.
That's effectively the equivalent of Miami keeping & extending Jimmy through his 2028 season, then trading him after the next season to a team for 2 unprotected FRPs that would convey during Jimmy's age 37 and 38 seasons. And, of course, Boston massively benefiting from lotto luck on top of it.
Boston chose when to pivot, trading Pierce and KG in the 2013 offseason. It was a proactive move that set up their next era. I understand they got more than they should have, still it was planned and executed correctly.
In contrast Miami didn’t even give themselves a chance with Jimmy, when they really should have traded him after not extending him. He forced his way out in a midseason trade request, suspensions, walking out of practice. The Heat had no leverage; nobody was going to overpay at that point.
Boston controlled the timing and got a haul. Miami held on too long and got desperate.
I know this is easier to see now, but the FO gets paid to know their players’ tendencies, maximize assets and especially with Jimmy, there was precedent for how he reacts when he isn’t getting paid.
Tim_Hardawayy wrote:contract wrote:I can't believe that the season just ended, we were the 10th seed and got absolutely butchered in the first round of the playoffs, and fans are talking about the foundational players on our team.
We ain't got any. We have role players. Some better than others. But there is no one to build around here. Thinking we do is how we ended up here.
I think Bam is a semi-foundational player. Not that he can be built around, but he fits any build no matter the direction you go, and he's good enough that he can play a prominent role. Everyone else is either a completely interchangeable role player, or they have talent but flaws that could impede their ability to contribute in certain builds.
The KD stuff makes me sick though, and again maybe its just my own bias against KD as a player, but there's nothing about that move that excites me even if they found a way to get him here without giving up Bam/Tyler. I can just picture it now, 46-36, 5th seed, bounced by the Knicks in the first round in 5 games, while Ware looks like an All-Star in Phoenix. That's the stuff of nightmares.
At least where we are now, we have potential either way. We have enough youth that we can tank and start something fresh, we have enough talent that if an actually youthful game changer becomes available, we could reload. But you commit to an old KD and we face potential doomsday, no youth left, locked in to a truly mediocre squad.
KD is the 37 year old with 3 kids from 3 baby daddies, we don't need that mess.
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:I don’t think anyone is saying to build and base the entire roster/gameplan around Bam or Herro, at least not from my perspective in what I’ve read. What we do know is if you give Spo/Bam a bonafide number 1 guy they can be huge pieces in making deep playoff runs (this is a 100% proven fact) and Bam will be a better/more complete player this time around and has some frontcourt help finally. We made these runs without Tyler, what if Tyler is able to translate his game in a lesser role when we get to the playoffs next to a true number 1 and hopefully a playmaker and that’s the next step he takes in his game?
In just their first season together we had a 108.5 DRTG with Bam and Ware on the court together, that would rank 2nd in the league. We might be on the brink of having a next level defense next year getting those 2 more acclimated and hopefully some other solid 2 way guys joining. We just need that elite offensive talent infusion and some playmaking.
And no Tim Hardaway I’m not saying this because of Bam, I want to win championships with or without Bam (sure it’d be nice with him) were the Miami Heat that’s what we fuxkin do!!
Johnny Fontane wrote:The same fans banging the table for KD are the same ones that did so for Lillard, Beal, etc. You’re seeing how that situation has blown up in Milwaukee. Thankfully the Heat organization doesn’t take ideas from fans online otherwise we’d be the suns if not worse. A few guys online who think they’re the smartest guy in the room has no bearing on what the team deems the best decision for the franchise moving forward
marson wrote:MettaWorldPanda wrote:marson wrote:
Apparently a Wiggins, Jovic, Jaquez, Rozier and picks is enough for a KD package lol
Why wouldn’t it be. He’s going to be 37 and will be demanding an extension that pays him 60 mil at age 39. I don’t see a ton of teams interested. Unless Houston wants to give the Suns some picks back which from reports they are reluctant to do. Also the Suns will probably look for the best deal with an East team. Look what Jimmy just went for
I thought he is 37 and supposed to age like LeBron? That should make him attractive to more teams than just the Heat, right?
One minute we’re calling him old to lowball the Suns, and the next we’re hyping him up as too elite for his age like other teams wouldn’t be interested.
Way too much mental gymnastics going on here.
Beenie wrote:For the KD plan A people, what’s plan B?
Daffy wrote:I feel like it's only myself, MWP and 3ammy actually sees the vision for KD. It's not hard to understand. KD provides our go to scorer. Shifts Herro and Bam into easier roles and we also ADD pieces to the team.
Why are fans acting like it's just KD and that's it. Mitchell and Ware should be improved another year in the system.
Gary Trent just want to the Bucks because of Dame last season. He didn't have the best year but he'd probably be our best bench scorer on this team. Point is role players follow stars. I'm sure a few would be willing to sign with us if KD lands here.
greg4012 wrote:marson wrote:MettaWorldPanda wrote:Why wouldn’t it be. He’s going to be 37 and will be demanding an extension that pays him 60 mil at age 39. I don’t see a ton of teams interested. Unless Houston wants to give the Suns some picks back which from reports they are reluctant to do. Also the Suns will probably look for the best deal with an East team. Look what Jimmy just went for
I thought he is 37 and supposed to age like LeBron? That should make him attractive to more teams than just the Heat, right?
One minute we’re calling him old to lowball the Suns, and the next we’re hyping him up as too elite for his age like other teams wouldn’t be interested.
Way too much mental gymnastics going on here.
That's how life works. You can't predict it with certainty. All you can do is hedge against your concerns.
