2025 Offseason Thread Vol.6

[SoFlaKingReal]

I wonder why D. Fox has never played in the Olympics? Seems like a nice guy to have considering they rostered Jrue Holliday and Derrick White last year.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Our "2026 plan" is mostly a Barry Jackson creation that people who have issues with the organization are using to dunk on the team because of its supposed failing. Like Adam Simon, Arison and Riley were really punching the air when the news hit that Luka signed. I imagine they were on the phone the last couple of days trying to convince Fox to hit FA too, right? If they truly were pinning all their hopes on 2026 they don't give Davion more than a year and Wiggins is sent somewhere else in the Jimmy trade. We've seen how they operate when having maximum space is the goal.

The plan is wait for a superstar to ask out then not have enough assets to get them and say we tried

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I wonder why D. Fox has never played in the Olympics? Seems like a nice guy to have considering they rostered Jrue Holliday and Derrick White last year.

Those guys impact the game at a high level without the ball in their hands. That’s why we saw Hali and Tatum get benched

[SoFlaKingReal]

I wonder why D. Fox has never played in the Olympics? Seems like a nice guy to have considering they rostered Jrue Holliday and Derrick White last year.

Those guys impact the game at a high level without the ball in their hands. That’s why we saw Hali and Tatum get benched

So we never expect Fox to play for team USA?

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Free agency for superstars is dead. Let the pipe dream of cap space go next year and flip Rozier's contract for something useful already.

Trade any and everyone of value that’s older than 22, we are not landing a star to put next to Bam like we had with Jimmy so we are just wasting time being stuck in the middle (at best) while he gets older and his value diminishes. See what all you can get from him, Herro, Highsmith to a contender, Davion to a contender etc. and go from there.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? I get that you don't want to be a treadmill team, nobody does, but most of the teams that go full on tank and dump everyone don't have happy endings, in fact its the exception not the rule. I'll make a post eventually doing a team by team analysis, but I'll bet if you analyzed different teams' approaches to team building over the last 30 years, you'd find roughly the same success rate whether they went full tank to rebuild, or whether they suffered some treadmill period first.

The biggest common denominator, that nobody wants to accept because the team has very little control over it, is luck. And that's because typically the only teams that can compete in the NBA have at least one top 5 player, top 10 at worst, and getting that guy is usually some combination of connections and luck. Sitting in the depths of the lottery help, but they're so rare that even if you get a top 3 pick in a draft you still have to be very lucky you get the right guy in the right year. And if you're bad enough, you still might not be able to improve the team around him fast enough before he wants to leave.

What kills me is people will rightly say Riley gets undeserved credit for getting lucky enough to have drafted Wade. There's truth to that statement, I agree! But often these same people will become hypocrites and claim the team should just magically be able to get another Wade, as if the key to getting these stars isn't almost always some form of luck.

Two exceptions btw, one you are the Los Angeles Lakers and the league ensures you will never have to suffer without a star for long. Two, you have stars who have connections to each other and help coordinate them coming to your team (Wade with LeBron).

Anyways my point is, trading Bam/Herro/everyone else for 50 cents on the dollar doesn't dramatically raise our odds. Its like buying an extra lottery ticket, we still probably don't win, and it degrades the perception of our franchise if we become a perennial loser. Not to say anyone is untouchable, but the deal should make complete sense and/or Bam or whoever should already be asking out. If we're just trading him to trade him and we aren't getting a great haul, **** that noise.

[fincane30]

Our "2026 plan" is mostly a Barry Jackson creation that people who have issues with the organization are using to dunk on the team because of its supposed failing. Like Adam Simon, Arison and Riley were really punching the air when the news hit that Luka signed. I imagine they were on the phone the last couple of days trying to convince Fox to hit FA too, right? If they truly were pinning all their hopes on 2026 they don't give Davion more than a year and Wiggins is sent somewhere else in the Jimmy trade. We've seen how they operate when having maximum space is the goal.

The plan is wait for a superstar to ask out then not have enough assets to get them and say we tried

Ah that fan created delusion. The one where you trade away good players to gain assets so you have enough to trade for a desired superstar to join a bad team full of recent draft picks. Superstars sign up for that all time. The closet you can get in recent memory is Kevin Durant to the Rockets and he joined a two seed.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Our "2026 plan" is mostly a Barry Jackson creation that people who have issues with the organization are using to dunk on the team because of its supposed failing. Like Adam Simon, Arison and Riley were really punching the air when the news hit that Luka signed. I imagine they were on the phone the last couple of days trying to convince Fox to hit FA too, right? If they truly were pinning all their hopes on 2026 they don't give Davion more than a year and Wiggins is sent somewhere else in the Jimmy trade. We've seen how they operate when having maximum space is the goal.

Barry Jackson is nothing more then a 5 reasons lead dog hype man who's really dubbing as a fan/journalist at this point with his made up scenarios that gets clicks. Always leaves things off now with a cliff hanger like "It won't be a problem to free up max money to sign Luka" but of course we only have 15 million in cap space next year if we let Rozier walk and getting a team to absorb Wiggins if he opts in is the easiest scenario imaginable. SMDH

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I wonder why D. Fox has never played in the Olympics? Seems like a nice guy to have considering they rostered Jrue Holliday and Derrick White last year.

Those guys impact the game at a high level without the ball in their hands. That’s why we saw Hali and Tatum get benched

So we never expect Fox to play for team USA?

Depends on the roster construction, Curry likely being out opens up a PG spot. I’d assume we don’t see White and Jrue again either, Curry basically slid in for Dame who is probably done too. Could be needing a PG like Fox, maybe Brunson. Cade, Mitchell likely gets in there at some point I would think. To answer your question probably a better chance we don’t than do if I had to guess.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Our "2026 plan" is mostly a Barry Jackson creation that people who have issues with the organization are using to dunk on the team because of its supposed failing. Like Adam Simon, Arison and Riley were really punching the air when the news hit that Luka signed. I imagine they were on the phone the last couple of days trying to convince Fox to hit FA too, right? If they truly were pinning all their hopes on 2026 they don't give Davion more than a year and Wiggins is sent somewhere else in the Jimmy trade. We've seen how they operate when having maximum space is the goal.

The plan is wait for a superstar to ask out then not have enough assets to get them and say we tried

Ah that fan created delusion. The one where you trade away good players to gain assets so you have enough to trade for a desired superstar to join a bad team full of recent draft picks. Superstars sign up for that all time. The closet you can get in recent memory is Kevin Durant to the Rockets and he joined a two seed.

Or the Heat but Nikola Jovic was untouchable. There is no plan, there is no asset management, and we will just continue to strike out on big names that want to come here for one reason or another but it will be completely immune to criticism because Wade brought us 3 championships over a decade ago.

[Kobewade11]

I wonder why D. Fox has never played in the Olympics? Seems like a nice guy to have considering they rostered Jrue Holliday and Derrick White last year.

Last time he was invited to camp he pulled himself our for undisclosed reasons, they’ve been putting more emphasis on guys willing to commit so I’m not sure he’s going to get another crack at it. Cade (lit up team USA at camp) and Haliburton (health provided) seem to be in line as the top pgs on the 2028 team.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Free agency for superstars is dead. Let the pipe dream of cap space go next year and flip Rozier's contract for something useful already.

Trade any and everyone of value that’s older than 22, we are not landing a star to put next to Bam like we had with Jimmy so we are just wasting time being stuck in the middle (at best) while he gets older and his value diminishes. See what all you can get from him, Herro, Highsmith to a contender, Davion to a contender etc. and go from there.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? I get that you don't want to be a treadmill team, nobody does, but most of the teams that go full on tank and dump everyone don't have happy endings, in fact its the exception not the rule. I'll make a post eventually doing a team by team analysis, but I'll bet if you analyzed different teams' approaches to team building over the last 30 years, you'd find roughly the same success rate whether they went full tank to rebuild, or whether they suffered some treadmill period first.

The biggest common denominator, that nobody wants to accept because the team has very little control over it, is luck. And that's because typically the only teams that can compete in the NBA have at least one top 5 player, top 10 at worst, and getting that guy is usually some combination of connections and luck. Sitting in the depths of the lottery help, but they're so rare that even if you get a top 3 pick in a draft you still have to be very lucky you get the right guy in the right year. And if you're bad enough, you still might not be able to improve the team around him fast enough before he wants to leave.

What kills me is people will rightly say Riley gets undeserved credit for getting lucky enough to have drafted Wade. There's truth to that statement, I agree! But often these same people will become hypocrites and claim the team should just magically be able to get another Wade, as if the key to getting these stars isn't almost always some form of luck.

Two exceptions btw, one you are the Los Angeles Lakers and the league ensures you will never have to suffer without a star for long. Two, you have stars who have connections to each other and help coordinate them coming to your team (Wade with LeBron).

Anyways my point is, trading Bam/Herro/everyone else for 50 cents on the dollar doesn't dramatically raise our odds. Its like buying an extra lottery ticket, we still probably don't win, and it degrades the perception of our franchise if we become a perennial loser. Not to say anyone is untouchable, but the deal should make complete sense and/or Bam or whoever should already be asking out. If we're just trading him to trade him and we aren't getting a great haul, **** that noise.

I’ve always been against tanking and blowing it up but quite frankly tired of being close and then not being able to get the final piece for one reason or another and continuously striking out on these big names. I think we’re going to spend these next few years “trying” to get something done that ultimately won’t happen and we’ll look back thinking we should’ve just accumulated assets when our most valuable players value is trimmed down quite a bit. I hope I’m wrong.

[SoFlaKingReal]

I wonder why D. Fox has never played in the Olympics? Seems like a nice guy to have considering they rostered Jrue Holliday and Derrick White last year.

Last time he was invited to camp he pulled himself our for undisclosed reasons, they’ve been putting more emphasis on guys willing to commit so I’m not sure he’s going to get another crack at it. Cade (lit up team USA at camp) and Haliburton (health provided) seem to be in line as the top pgs on the 2028 team.

Ya... from what I've read, Brunson may have a leg up on Fox as well.

[SA37]

allnba is rep and team level

What was Steph's production that warranted second team last year?

If we win 47+ games allnba becomes a possibilty

Herro would need a pandemic to sweep through the league's guards to make the all-NBA team.

Ya'll were saying this a year ago when anybody even remotely mentioned the possibility of Herro becoming an all-star.

Two parts: 1) Herro's improvement was clear and he was worthy of consideration and 2) he got very lucky with injuries to guys who would, in most cases, have been all-stars ahead of him (Embiid, George, Maxey, J Johnson, F Wagner, P Banchero) or could have easily been chosen over him (T Young, T Haliburton, Z Lavine, L Ball, D White). And that leaves out Immanuel Quickley who could make a case for being an all-star if he can stay healthy.

I don't expect Herro to be an all-star most years even in a weak Eastern conference, but if he continues to put up similar numbers to last year, he'll get some consideration if Miami has a reasonable record.

Just from a guard standpoint, assuming reasonable health, I think Brunson, Maxey, D Mitchell, J Brown, and C Cunningham are locks to be all-stars. maybe the Celtics will do poorly enough that Brown will get bypassed, but I expect both Banchero and Wagner to be all-stars and then Desmond Bane will likely get consideration.

[fincane30]

The plan is wait for a superstar to ask out then not have enough assets to get them and say we tried

Ah that fan created delusion. The one where you trade away good players to gain assets so you have enough to trade for a desired superstar to join a bad team full of recent draft picks. Superstars sign up for that all time. The closet you can get in recent memory is Kevin Durant to the Rockets and he joined a two seed.

Or the Heat but Nikola Jovic was untouchable. There is no plan, there is no asset management, and we will just continue to strike out on big names that want to come here for one reason or another but it will be completely immune to criticism because Wade brought us 3 championships over a decade ago.

Jovic wasn't untouchable. They weren't gonna give up Jovic plus whatever else to be left with Durant, Herro, Bam and Ware plus no more tradeable first round picks to improve the team around those 4. They rightly decided that team wasn't near good enough or deep enough to win a title. And what are you acquiring Kevin Durant for if not to win a title?

You guys like to go to "the front office has player not nearly good as Kevin Durant as untouchable" as some sort of look how delusional this front office is gotcha thing like we're all stupid and didn't read the actual autopsy of the trade that never was.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Trade any and everyone of value that’s older than 22, we are not landing a star to put next to Bam like we had with Jimmy so we are just wasting time being stuck in the middle (at best) while he gets older and his value diminishes. See what all you can get from him, Herro, Highsmith to a contender, Davion to a contender etc. and go from there.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? I get that you don't want to be a treadmill team, nobody does, but most of the teams that go full on tank and dump everyone don't have happy endings, in fact its the exception not the rule. I'll make a post eventually doing a team by team analysis, but I'll bet if you analyzed different teams' approaches to team building over the last 30 years, you'd find roughly the same success rate whether they went full tank to rebuild, or whether they suffered some treadmill period first.

The biggest common denominator, that nobody wants to accept because the team has very little control over it, is luck. And that's because typically the only teams that can compete in the NBA have at least one top 5 player, top 10 at worst, and getting that guy is usually some combination of connections and luck. Sitting in the depths of the lottery help, but they're so rare that even if you get a top 3 pick in a draft you still have to be very lucky you get the right guy in the right year. And if you're bad enough, you still might not be able to improve the team around him fast enough before he wants to leave.

What kills me is people will rightly say Riley gets undeserved credit for getting lucky enough to have drafted Wade. There's truth to that statement, I agree! But often these same people will become hypocrites and claim the team should just magically be able to get another Wade, as if the key to getting these stars isn't almost always some form of luck.

Two exceptions btw, one you are the Los Angeles Lakers and the league ensures you will never have to suffer without a star for long. Two, you have stars who have connections to each other and help coordinate them coming to your team (Wade with LeBron).

Anyways my point is, trading Bam/Herro/everyone else for 50 cents on the dollar doesn't dramatically raise our odds. Its like buying an extra lottery ticket, we still probably don't win, and it degrades the perception of our franchise if we become a perennial loser. Not to say anyone is untouchable, but the deal should make complete sense and/or Bam or whoever should already be asking out. If we're just trading him to trade him and we aren't getting a great haul, **** that noise.

I’ve always been against tanking and blowing it up but quite frankly tired of being close and then not being able to get the final piece for one reason or another and continuously striking out on these big names. I think we’re going to spend these next few years “trying” to get something done that ultimately won’t happen and we’ll look back thinking we should’ve just accumulated assets when our most valuable players value is trimmed down quite a bit. I hope I’m wrong.

Don't let go of the rope....Giannis could be available soon

[SoFlaKingReal]

Ah that fan created delusion. The one where you trade away good players to gain assets so you have enough to trade for a desired superstar to join a bad team full of recent draft picks. Superstars sign up for that all time. The closet you can get in recent memory is Kevin Durant to the Rockets and he joined a two seed.

Or the Heat but Nikola Jovic was untouchable. There is no plan, there is no asset management, and we will just continue to strike out on big names that want to come here for one reason or another but it will be completely immune to criticism because Wade brought us 3 championships over a decade ago.

Jovic wasn't untouchable. They weren't gonna give up Jovic plus whatever else to be left with Durant, Herro, Bam and Ware plus no more tradeable first round picks to improve the team around those 4. They rightly decided that team wasn't near good enough or deep enough to win a title. And what are you acquiring Kevin Durant for if not to win a title?

You guys like go to "the front office has player not nearly good as Kevin Durant as untouchable" as some sort of look how delusion this front office is gotcha thing like we're all stupid and didn't read the actual autopsy of the trade that never was.

Fully agree with this. The problem is a lot of this fan base is dumb af, especially those on Twitter.

Rage baiters know all it takes is a sleepy Pat meme to drive engagement.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Ah that fan created delusion. The one where you trade away good players to gain assets so you have enough to trade for a desired superstar to join a bad team full of recent draft picks. Superstars sign up for that all time. The closet you can get in recent memory is Kevin Durant to the Rockets and he joined a two seed.

Or the Heat but Nikola Jovic was untouchable. There is no plan, there is no asset management, and we will just continue to strike out on big names that want to come here for one reason or another but it will be completely immune to criticism because Wade brought us 3 championships over a decade ago.

Jovic wasn't untouchable. They weren't gonna give up Jovic plus whatever else to be left with Durant, Herro, Bam and Ware plus no more tradeable first round picks to improve the team around those 4. They rightly decided that team wasn't near good enough or deep enough to win a title. And what are you acquiring Kevin Durant for if not to win a title?

You guys like go to the "the front office has player not nearly good as Kevin Durant is untouchable" as some sort of look how delusion this front office is gotcha thing like we're all stupid and didn't read the actual autopsy of the trade that never was.

Don’t forget Norman who still could’ve been acquired for peanuts after. The fact is, they likely overvalued their guys like they do in every negotiation. We’ll see what becomes of Jaime Ware and Jovic. I can agree on Ware for the most part, the others I don’t. I didn’t see anything reported that we had to send every 1st we had to get it done.

If Jimmy Bam and the undrafteds were competing for championships KD Bam Herro (if he’s as good as some think) Norman and Ware sure as **** could have. Especially in this weak EC.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Why does it have to be all or nothing? I get that you don't want to be a treadmill team, nobody does, but most of the teams that go full on tank and dump everyone don't have happy endings, in fact its the exception not the rule. I'll make a post eventually doing a team by team analysis, but I'll bet if you analyzed different teams' approaches to team building over the last 30 years, you'd find roughly the same success rate whether they went full tank to rebuild, or whether they suffered some treadmill period first.

The biggest common denominator, that nobody wants to accept because the team has very little control over it, is luck. And that's because typically the only teams that can compete in the NBA have at least one top 5 player, top 10 at worst, and getting that guy is usually some combination of connections and luck. Sitting in the depths of the lottery help, but they're so rare that even if you get a top 3 pick in a draft you still have to be very lucky you get the right guy in the right year. And if you're bad enough, you still might not be able to improve the team around him fast enough before he wants to leave.

What kills me is people will rightly say Riley gets undeserved credit for getting lucky enough to have drafted Wade. There's truth to that statement, I agree! But often these same people will become hypocrites and claim the team should just magically be able to get another Wade, as if the key to getting these stars isn't almost always some form of luck.

Two exceptions btw, one you are the Los Angeles Lakers and the league ensures you will never have to suffer without a star for long. Two, you have stars who have connections to each other and help coordinate them coming to your team (Wade with LeBron).

Anyways my point is, trading Bam/Herro/everyone else for 50 cents on the dollar doesn't dramatically raise our odds. Its like buying an extra lottery ticket, we still probably don't win, and it degrades the perception of our franchise if we become a perennial loser. Not to say anyone is untouchable, but the deal should make complete sense and/or Bam or whoever should already be asking out. If we're just trading him to trade him and we aren't getting a great haul, **** that noise.

I’ve always been against tanking and blowing it up but quite frankly tired of being close and then not being able to get the final piece for one reason or another and continuously striking out on these big names. I think we’re going to spend these next few years “trying” to get something done that ultimately won’t happen and we’ll look back thinking we should’ve just accumulated assets when our most valuable players value is trimmed down quite a bit. I hope I’m wrong.

Don't let go of the rope....Giannis could be available soon

WE PIVOT!!!

[CWebb2491]

If Giannis asks out…..

I’d put Ware, Herro, Terry (for contract match purposes) and ALL OF OUR PICKS 1sts and 2nds.

Bam Jovic
Giannis Highsmith
Wiggins JJJ
Powell Parson
Mitchell Kasparas

That’s a defensive JUGGERNAUT….

If Bam can continue to shoot the 3 efficiently

Gianni’s is a walking 30 and 10

Powell provides elite shooting and shot making.

Wiggins is not a star but an elite 3 and D player

Mitchell is a dawg.

I think our offer is a pretty damn good one….

[fincane30]

Or the Heat but Nikola Jovic was untouchable. There is no plan, there is no asset management, and we will just continue to strike out on big names that want to come here for one reason or another but it will be completely immune to criticism because Wade brought us 3 championships over a decade ago.

Jovic wasn't untouchable. They weren't gonna give up Jovic plus whatever else to be left with Durant, Herro, Bam and Ware plus no more tradeable first round picks to improve the team around those 4. They rightly decided that team wasn't near good enough or deep enough to win a title. And what are you acquiring Kevin Durant for if not to win a title?

You guys like go to the "the front office has player not nearly good as Kevin Durant is untouchable" as some sort of look how delusion this front office is gotcha thing like we're all stupid and didn't read the actual autopsy of the trade that never was.

Don’t forget Norman who still could’ve been acquired for peanuts after. The fact is, they likely overvalued their guys like they do in every negotiation. We’ll see what becomes of Jaime Ware and Jovic. I can agree on Ware for the most part, the others I don’t. I didn’t see anything reported that we had to send every 1st we had to get it done.

If Jimmy Bam and the undrafteds were competing for championships KD Bam Herro (if he’s as good as some think) Norman and Ware sure as **** could have. Especially in this weak EC.

With a scorer like KD and Wiggins out the door, no guarantee they're adding Powell with the lack of perimeter defense on the roster. They may have looked in a different direction.

Shams in his convoluted way said with no Ware the Heat had to empty out the coffers. We only had two tradeable firsts at the time of trade discussions. The Suns were desperate for picks. They took two seconds instead of Cam Whitmore. One first rounder would not have been enough specifically because the 2025 pick was in the 20s and not in the lottery like the pick they actually got back.