Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK

[MettaWorldPanda]

If the Heat viewed Herro as a major piece for the future and were confident in that he would’ve already been extended awhile ago. It’s really that simple. They don’t want to throw away the opportunity to get a Derozan type if they become mad and want out. Don’t extend him and if we decide to keep him just match his cheaper, shorter offer sheet next summer.

It’s not that simple with Herro unless they are able to get off Lowry and Robinson’s deal. Micky is going to have a massive tax bill gun to his head one way or another. There’s no in between here. A trade needs to be made whether to accomdate Herro’s salary next year or he’s traded with Lowry or Robinson of both before the deadline.

If they view Herro as an important piece they’ll do what it takes, I don’t think they’re sold on him. It needs to be what you finished your post with, Duncan Herro Yurt/Jovic and picks for an all star guy that fills a need.

Teams just can’t trade for Lowry and Herro cause it’s essentially your trading out 36 million today for 60 million tomorrow. Only teams with a healthy cap sheet can make that happen and those teams don’t have this imaginary disgruntled star player.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I’m just not sold on us making trades, we’ll probably just let the guys walk as usual. We don’t capitalize on these players values after we build them up. We could’ve got something for DJJ or Nunn instead of just letting them walk. We can get something for Strus for sure, Gabe and Yurt I’m not sure. We never do this though and the need for a trade to finally put this team over the hump has never been more apparent than it was at the end of the playoffs last season and we sat on our hands all summer

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It’s not that simple with Herro unless they are able to get off Lowry and Robinson’s deal. Micky is going to have a massive tax bill gun to his head one way or another. There’s no in between here. A trade needs to be made whether to accomdate Herro’s salary next year or he’s traded with Lowry or Robinson of both before the deadline.

If they view Herro as an important piece they’ll do what it takes, I don’t think they’re sold on him. It needs to be what you finished your post with, Duncan Herro Yurt/Jovic and picks for an all star guy that fills a need.

Teams just can’t trade for Lowry and Herro cause it’s essentially your trading out 36 million today for 60 million tomorrow. Only teams with a healthy cap sheet can make that happen and those teams don’t have this imaginary disgruntled star player.

I’m not trading Lowry in the Herro deal. I like his contract as an expiring to move if needed after next season but I’d rather just flip Duncan Herro and a couple of the cheaper guys for something.

[AirP.]

It’s not that simple with Herro unless they are able to get off Lowry and Robinson’s deal. Micky is going to have a massive tax bill gun to his head one way or another. There’s no in between here. A trade needs to be made whether to accomdate Herro’s salary next year or he’s traded with Lowry or Robinson of both before the deadline.

Not just get off their deals but not bring back anywhere near their salary next year, basically trading either/both for expiring contracts... and teams may want Miami to toss in assets in helping them do that.

100% they need to be dealt for expiring's. Feel’s almost inevitable we engage the Lakers in a deal for Westbrook and a third team that can take on Westbrook’s salary and buy him out.

So you're willing to become a worse team AND send out assets to do that?

Or

You continue looking for that consolidation trade to make Miami a contender for this year and possibly the next few years(3-4) without much issues with the tax.

Currently Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and Martin's contracts go up around 11 million, quite possibly how much the cap/tax goes up, so if you can maintain the rest of the salaries about the same you're golden without doing anything, 2 summers from now Lowry's salary comes off the books. The key to me... who can Miami add for the current run while keeping the salaries about the same as this years for multiple years and without giving up future assets so they can try to trade for the next star once Butler is near the end of his contract. It's really quite possible to go for it for the next 3-4 years, then clear out everyone except Bam and a few lesser salaries and then put in a huge bid for Miami's next star or possibly just sign him in FA.

DeRozen could possibly shake loose this year, throw him into the PF position and with Oladipo handling a lot of Tucker's defensive duties for wing players this team could be a strong contender for multiple years without going into the tax much.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Not just get off their deals but not bring back anywhere near their salary next year, basically trading either/both for expiring contracts... and teams may want Miami to toss in assets in helping them do that.

100% they need to be dealt for expiring's. Feel’s almost inevitable we engage the Lakers in a deal for Westbrook and a third team that can take on Westbrook’s salary and buy him out.

So you're willing to become a worse team AND send out assets to do that?

Or

You continue looking for that consolidation trade to make Miami a contender for this year and possibly the next few years(3-4).

Currently Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and Martin's contracts go up around 11 million, quite possibly how much the cap/tax goes up, so if you can maintain the rest of the salaries about the same you're golden without doing anything, 2 summers from now Lowry's salary comes off the books. The key to me... who can Miami add for the current run while keeping the salaries about the same as this years for multiple years and without giving up future assets so they can try to trade for the next star once Butler is near the end of his contract. It's really quite possible to go for it for the next 3-4 years, then clear out everyone except Bam and a few lesser salaries and then put in a huge bid for Miami's next star or possibly just sign him in FA.

DeRozen could possibly shake loose this year, throw him into the PF position and with Oladipo handling a lot of Tucker's defensive duties for wing players this team could be a strong contender for multiple years without going into the tax much.

The answer to your 2nd question is Derozan or to a lesser extent Jaylen. Duncan Herro Jovic and Highsmith salaries give us a clean for either without entering the tax.

Edit: I see you added Derozan to your post

[AirP.]

100% they need to be dealt for expiring's. Feel’s almost inevitable we engage the Lakers in a deal for Westbrook and a third team that can take on Westbrook’s salary and buy him out.

So you're willing to become a worse team AND send out assets to do that?

Or

You continue looking for that consolidation trade to make Miami a contender for this year and possibly the next few years(3-4).

Currently Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and Martin's contracts go up around 11 million, quite possibly how much the cap/tax goes up, so if you can maintain the rest of the salaries about the same you're golden without doing anything, 2 summers from now Lowry's salary comes off the books. The key to me... who can Miami add for the current run while keeping the salaries about the same as this years for multiple years and without giving up future assets so they can try to trade for the next star once Butler is near the end of his contract. It's really quite possible to go for it for the next 3-4 years, then clear out everyone except Bam and a few lesser salaries and then put in a huge bid for Miami's next star or possibly just sign him in FA.

DeRozen could possibly shake loose this year, throw him into the PF position and with Oladipo handling a lot of Tucker's defensive duties for wing players this team could be a strong contender for multiple years without going into the tax much.

The answer to your 2nd question is Derozan or to a lesser extent Jaylen. Duncan Herro Jovic and Highsmith salaries give us a clean for either without entering the tax.

Edit: I see you added Derozan to your post

I'm not saying this would be the trade because I'm sure other players and teams would be involved, but Herro and Robinson for DeRozan works money wise although that adds salary to Miami and they'd have to sign another player. Also stacking up salaries of Dedmon, Jovic, Vincent, Struss and so on works too instead of Herro.

So it's possible for Miami to add another very good player for a few more years without dealing with much tax issues.

Now... all this kind of goes out the window if Herro is extended before next summer. His extension means at least one if not multiple key players now may have to be moved by the start of 2023 season and quite possibly with assets tied to them.

[Kobewade11]

Really, Derozan?

[Vertical Limit]

Herro is likely not getting extended just like Ayton.. this will be a trial year for him.. he then seeks a max contract offer sheet and the Heat matches if they think hes worth it. They save a year of salary as well in this route. But i think they work a S&T eventually. Hes not in the long term plans.

[Timantha]

Read on Twitter

Lowry looks quite slim

[AirP.]

Really, Derozan?

Yes, the guy who tied 10th in MVP voting this last season and has played PF in recent years. In reality there's probably not going to be many players to select from by the trade deadline that could move the needle. He's older so once again, it's a limited window with hm. There's just not going to be many options out there.

There's probably not going to be many difference makers around 32 million or below (to make a Robinson and multiple contracts work) and on multiple year contracts available by the trade deadline. Just looking at that range for players who "may" end up available...

All that looks possible in that range is...
Hayward, DeRozan, Draymond, Randle, Collins

If Miami wants to get an expiring guy they could look at...
Love, Vucevic

If it's just Robinson and some sweetner(asset, another small contract or 2) you could be looking at...
Hield, Dinwiddie, THJ, LeVert, Harris, Fournier, Turner, ->Barnes<-, Bogdanović

The issue with at least Robinson is to remove his salary for 2023 season and beyond OR couple him with player(s) who will be getting a new contract next year for a player who has multiple years left on their current contract where there's no real increase in that salary next season.

There's always the option to send Duncan out with an asset (probably a 1st) to get an expiring this year which may fix the future tax issues, but that's only an option if you feel strongly about paying Herro which some people do.

Mitchell probably was the best option but also was too expensive (in assets) of an option for Miami I guess.

[AirP.]

Herro is likely not getting extended just like Ayton.. this will be a trial year for him.. he then seeks a max contract offer sheet and the Heat matches if they think hes worth it. They save a year of salary as well in this route. But i think they work a S&T eventually. Hes not in the long term plans.

His extension wouldn't kick in until next year.

A S&T doesn't help Miami's salary issues next sumer unless the other team's able to eat most of his contract, meaning they have a bulk of if not all the cap space to outright sign him, that's going to be a limited amount of teams.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Really, Derozan?

I mean we’ve seen we can’t get the to get Mitchell type of players for Herro so yea I wouldn’t mind a guy who just averaged an efficient 28-5-5 on a solid contract and who many thought was the favorite for MVP 75% of the way through the season until the Bulls fell off.

[Flash4thewin]

Really, Derozan?

I mean we’ve seen we can’t get the to get Mitchell type of players for Herro so yea I wouldn’t mind a guy who just averaged an efficient 28-5-5 on a solid contract and who many thought was the favorite for MVP 75% of the way through the season until the Bulls fell off.

But the Bulls wont sell cheap either so unless we are willing to give up 3+ unprotected first round draft picks + swaps it’s a moot point. Thats assuming the Bulls even have interest in our players, which means no net negative players like Duncan and that another team doesn’t trump our offer.

[MHeat0279]

See my next post following the one you quoted above about Bams contract in relation to other players, you’re so far off

As in starting over Bam lol?

Whats so far fetched about it? Must i remind you the numbers he was putting up when Bam and company were injured? Rebounding wise numbers the league have not seen since Shaq. Bam is a complementary player making star money, he will never be the guy to build around. He doesnt have the mentality to overcome his lack of natural scoring, like Jimmy for example

If we bench Bam for Yurt this year I’ll literally sign all my real estate over to you that is super far fetched, you gotta be trolling

Generous proposition, lol
Lets put it this way, i see a much better chance for Yurt to become a better defensive player than Bam developing a reliable offence. Yurt is a little slow footed, but that can improve and he is a more natural scorer than Bam, he looks smooth with his moves and can actually score without being assisted. By the way i never saw you praising Yurt when he kept us afloat with Lowry during that stretch.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Really, Derozan?

I mean we’ve seen we can’t get the to get Mitchell type of players for Herro so yea I wouldn’t mind a guy who just averaged an efficient 28-5-5 on a solid contract and who many thought was the favorite for MVP 75% of the way through the season until the Bulls fell off.

But the Bulls wont sell cheap either so unless we are willing to give up 3+ unprotected first round draft picks + swaps it’s a moot point. Thats assuming the Bulls even have interest in our players, which means no net negative players like Duncan and that another team doesn’t trump our offer.

Yea they’re not getting that for a 33 year old Derozan with 1 year after next year on his deal.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Whats so far fetched about it? Must i remind you the numbers he was putting up when Bam and company were injured? Rebounding wise numbers the league have not seen since Shaq. Bam is a complementary player making star money, he will never be the guy to build around. He doesnt have the mentality to overcome his lack of natural scoring, like Jimmy for example

If we bench Bam for Yurt this year I’ll literally sign all my real estate over to you that is super far fetched, you gotta be trolling

Generous proposition, lol
Lets put it this way, i see a much better chance for Yurt to become a better defensive player than Bam developing a reliable offence. Yurt is a little slow footed, but that can improve and he is a more natural scorer than Bam, he looks smooth with his moves and can actually score without being assisted. By the way i never saw you praising Yurt when he kept us afloat with Lowry during that stretch.

Bams better offensively right now than Yurt will ever be defensively. Bam is assisted on nearly the same amount of his baskets as Embiid and Jokic. You’re going to see this coming year, he’s shown all the flashes and he’s going to put it all together this season.

I loved Yurt early on, was hype watching him kill in the summer league and all that. The Stan’s are getting to be too much though

[oreon]

I mean we’ve seen we can’t get the to get Mitchell type of players for Herro so yea I wouldn’t mind a guy who just averaged an efficient 28-5-5 on a solid contract and who many thought was the favorite for MVP 75% of the way through the season until the Bulls fell off.

But the Bulls wont sell cheap either so unless we are willing to give up 3+ unprotected first round draft picks + swaps it’s a moot point. Thats assuming the Bulls even have interest in our players, which means no net negative players like Duncan and that another team doesn’t trump our offer.

Yea they’re not getting that for a 33 year old Derozan with 1 year after next year on his deal.

Then they won't move him. The whole DeRozan idea is unrealistic, there's 0 chance of it happening.

[Kobewade11]

Really, Derozan?

Yes, the guy who tied 10th in MVP voting this last season and has played PF in recent years.

Saying he was tied for 10th in MVP voting is like bragging about being tied in 10th place for that girl you wanted, it doesn’t really mean much. Just talking to you here, name aside do you honestly feel Derozan raises this team to a championship level? Would Chicago even have interest in a Duncan/Herro package or a poo poo platter of Dedmon, Jovic, Vincent, and Struss? Im sure the trade landscape will change once teams hit the floor and we see who has chemistry issues, who is underperforming etc. feels like right now people want to make a move just to do it when opportunities for more logical deals are bound to materialize later

[AirP.]

Really, Derozan?

Yes, the guy who tied 10th in MVP voting this last season and has played PF in recent years.

Saying he was tied for 10th in MVP voting is like bragging about being tied in 10th place for that girl you wanted, it doesn’t really mean much. Just talking to you here, name aside do you honestly feel Derozan raises this team to a championship level? Would Chicago even have interest in a Duncan/Herro package or a poo poo platter of Dedmon, Jovic, Vincent, and Struss? Im sure the trade landscape will change once teams hit the floor and we see who has chemistry issues, who is underperforming etc. feels like right now people want to make a move just to do it when opportunities for more logical deals are bound to materialize later

Well, maybe it is like how you said if your options are every women in the world and you end up with the 10th one on your list, vs not off a list that you feel may be available to you.

The issue about Miami's trades are that there's a timeline they're on with their players under contract. Miami is currently just a little bit under the tax with 14 active roster spots taken and have none of the large contracts expiring and a whole lot of high value contracts expiring, something big has to be done by the deadline because if they don't, they're going to be looking to offload salary vs get equal value or assets with some trades and offloading salaries may cost Miami some assets.

Yes, I think a team of Lowry, Oladipo, Butler, DeRozan, Bam, Martin and whoever else has a very legit chance at winning a championship in the next 2-3 years and unless you have a top MVP candidate on your team, that's really the best you can ask for.

Also, with Lowry and DeRozan being best friends, both being good friends with Butler and if they don't win a championship together, they may give Miami a discount to resign them(possibly just for vet depth) to continue to try to win a championship together.

[Kobewade11]

The issue about Miami's trades are that there's a timeline they're on with their players under contract. Miami is currently just a little bit under the tax with 14 active roster spots taken and have none of the large contracts expiring and a whole lot of high value contracts expiring, something big has to be done by the deadline because if they don't, they're going to be looking to offload salary vs get equal value or assets with some trades and offloading salaries may cost Miami some assets.

Yes, I think a team of Lowry, Oladipo, Butler, DeRozan, Bam, Martin and whoever else has a very legit chance at winning a championship in the next 2-3 years and unless you have a top MVP candidate on your team, that's really the best you can ask for.

Even you have to admit there’s a little player homerism going on with that projection. You’d be banking on Oladipo going back to Indiana Dipo and relying on a 6’6 pf duo. Even if we hit on both im not convinced thats a team that could even get through Milwaukee unless Bam becomes a different player.