2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[dubasilva]

Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.

He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.

He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.

There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.

All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.

Excellent!

[marson]

Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.

He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.

He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.

There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.

All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.

So basically just a MID chick from HS

Not gorgeous but not ugly as well.

[greg4012]

I don't think anyone here "hates" Bam. We're all Heat fans and want him to do well.

At the same time we need to be realisitc about his shortcomings. He's not a natural leading scorer.

With that said, he can be a great piece ON THE RIGHT ROSTER.

Luckily it looks like we got a steal with Ware who seems to have the tools and touch to be very capable scoring option. So hopefully once we get that 1A type of leading scorer (currently don't have one) everything falls into place, including Bam's role and packing order on offense.

First scoring option - Fox?
Second - Herro
third/4th - Ware/Bam
5th - Jovic? Jamie? new guy?

This all roster is in flux, nobody's role is very well defined right now. We need some moves and more time to balance this team and make it fit together.

Any top 50 player would be a great piece on the right roster and finding a 1a option is literally the hardest thing to do and is even harder when you give max deals to good role players. The Heat couldn't get past prime Lillard but somehow they will get prime Fox.....It's always something with Bam he needs the right team, he needs to play PF he needs a PG, he needs a 1a scorer well good luck trying to get all those things this ain't team USA.

That's not a Bam thing, that's a Heat fan thing. Some fans are obsessed with size. They grew up watching a different era of basketball and they just can't get over it. Small ball has taken us further than the Alonzo Mourning/PJ Brown/Jamal Mashburn front line ever did, but some fans would still prefer to have that bigger front line.

Bam's position should be C because that's where his weaknesses can be minimized, and his quickness and athleticism give him the greatest matchup advantage. It's not too much different that Zo. Moving Zo away from the paint on either end would have diminished his value.

And Bam doesn't need a PG. This TEAM needs a PG. We need someone that is good at creating opportunities for other players. Actually we could use more than one of those.

PF and C labels are fun. But Miami wants to have as multi-faceted of a frontcourt as possible. Distribution of responsibilities doesn't need to be strictly assigned based on tradition PF vs C designations. People seem to really struggle with this notion.

If Ware wasn't a quality 3pt shooter, then I would validate the discussion of Bam vs Ware. But Miami just drafted the theoretical skeleton key partner for Bam and at first glance, some fans want to start making it a one vs the other thing. Silly soap opera fans.

[MettaWorldPanda]

When i see lottery talk in here i think about the Whiteside, JJ, TJ, Waiters teams that still couldn’t tank hard enough to get us a prime lotto pick. Now i’m supposed to believe a team with unicorn Ware, Bam and Tyler is supposed to deliver a prime lottery pick? Nah we either get a late lotto or most likely paying out the pick. This team will find a way to make a late run. Pat will make a move or two by the deadline that makes sure of that.

[greg4012]

I am going to try to give some of the convo flowing here some direction/context. Given the seemingly minimal options for landing spots for Butler AND Miami's apparent desire to avoid taking contracts that go beyond 2026 barring a long-term piece (only see Zion fitting this criteria based on who is available):

1. I am curious as to whether or not the franchise sees Herro's play this year as something they'd like to continue to pursue and build around or if they think him doing so much on offense is ok for now, but will cut it back if/when they can bring other players in.

2. I wonder whether the franchise still takes the view Herro/Bam is 1 player away from having a trio that gets you in the running for a title or if they think they need two players who are better than them.

Bam, imo, is basically a bigger, better version of Draymond Green and Herro is a good but, like Bam, I just don't see him being a perennial all-star or all-NBA team guy.

We had a player who was better, and it was enough to get us to the finals, but not enough to win it all. We need a new superstar to build around, not just a star to add to what we have.

3. I'd like to know if Miami still sees Robinson putting up as many 3s as possible as part of a winning strategy and if they'd like to re-sign him at a more manageable number when his contract runs out.

4. Lastly, I am super curious to see if Miami uses the Butler trade demand to make big roster changes with some combo of Rozier, Robinson, JJJ, K Love being shipped out. It seems like it is going to require 4-6 teams, depending on where Butler ends up, and that must mean A LOT of people are going to be on the move.

I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to renounce Duncan because his cap hold is ~ $30 million, and re-signing him early at a much lower number would eat into our cap space for that offseason.

It's not easy to get a Jimmy level impact player. But, what if Miami gets someone close, but that someone is actually perimeter-oriented in game instead of clogging the same areas that are typically for the big man work???

[greg4012]

Not a damn soul was hating on Bam that stretch, he was on the NBA's MVP ladder at Number 8 if I'm not mistaken.

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

If we're being real, Noah deserves like 1/3 of the credit for Rose's MVP season. Dude got a MVP for being the leading scorer on a team that won with (1) defense, (2) rebounding, and (3) bench depth.

[greg4012]

Not a damn soul was hating on Bam that stretch, he was on the NBA's MVP ladder at Number 8 if I'm not mistaken.

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

You all need to quit throwing around the term max salary. It doesn't mean anything.

Bam: $34,848,340

Curry: $55,761,216 <--- actual max money

Bam's max is not the NBA max. Not by a long shot.

In two years when Bam's salary jumps to $48 million, Curry will be earning $62 million.

Forget the terms max contract, max salary, and max money. All they do is confuse fans.

But its convenient for validating emotional arguments

[Daffy]

When i see lottery talk in here i think about the Whiteside, JJ, TJ, Waiters teams that still couldn’t tank hard enough to get us a prime lotto pick. Now i’m supposed to believe a team with unicorn Ware, Bam and Tyler is supposed to deliver a prime lottery pick? Nah we either get a late lotto or most likely paying out the pick. This team will find a way to make a late run. Pat will make a move or two by the deadline that makes sure of that.

I'm wondering if we're better off paying out the pick this year vs next year.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

If we're being real, Noah deserves like 1/3 of the credit for Rose's MVP season. Dude got a MVP for being the leading scorer on a team that won with (1) defense, (2) rebounding, and (3) bench depth.

They were so eager to give that award to anyone not on the Heat that year

[MettaWorldPanda]

When i see lottery talk in here i think about the Whiteside, JJ, TJ, Waiters teams that still couldn’t tank hard enough to get us a prime lotto pick. Now i’m supposed to believe a team with unicorn Ware, Bam and Tyler is supposed to deliver a prime lottery pick? Nah we either get a late lotto or most likely paying out the pick. This team will find a way to make a late run. Pat will make a move or two by the deadline that makes sure of that.

I'm wondering if we're better off paying out the pick this year vs next year.

Paying out the pick gives us closure on the OKC pick that’s been haunting us for years and muddying up our other picks.

[greg4012]

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

This guy coming in the Jimmy trade lol?

[greg4012]

Love to see Bam stans versus not so much stans going at it

at the end of the day we should all be Heat stans.

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

Sure, of course you aren't.

Chill out bro. I'll just grab my popcorn here

Love to read points from each side.

I gotta do something while I take sh*t, might as well expand the scope of the toilet bowl (not directed at you--your popcorn is safe)

[marson]

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

Sure, of course you aren't.

Chill out bro. I'll just grab my popcorn here

Love to read points from each side.

I gotta do something while I take sh*t, might as well expand the scope of the toilet bowl (not directed at you--your popcorn is safe)

Sure go ahead. Just a chill guy here

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

This guy coming in the Jimmy trade lol?

He was making everything last night.

[DayofMourning]

When i see lottery talk in here i think about the Whiteside, JJ, TJ, Waiters teams that still couldn’t tank hard enough to get us a prime lotto pick. Now i’m supposed to believe a team with unicorn Ware, Bam and Tyler is supposed to deliver a prime lottery pick? Nah we either get a late lotto or most likely paying out the pick. This team will find a way to make a late run. Pat will make a move or two by the deadline that makes sure of that.

I'm wondering if we're better off paying out the pick this year vs next year.

I think the mindset of some is theyd rather pay out the 15th pick in 25 because it stops us from paying the 15th pick out in 26 which pushes the 15th pick wed trade in 27 to the 15th pick in 28.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

This guy coming in the Jimmy trade lol?

He was making everything last night.

Opposite of us the last 2 games, sign me up!

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Send his ass to Memphis for Kennard smart wells a 1st and have the filler shipped out to a 3rd team. Blame it on the Suns not being able to move Beal and Jimmy’s erratic behavior needing to get him out of here asap.

[al bondiga]

bam ranks top Forty or fifty Of the players any team in the world would love to have... not top ten or twenty Like we would have loved to

We are mad because he could have been top 5. But we are lucky if gets to be Top 10 someday... He got sidetracked... To me, it is very possible that it happened because Jb-spo and living in Miami-the money plus "fame Or accolades"

That is why he gets so much back lash... Every time we see him, we see what he could have been... not what he is.

[greg4012]

No one else is encouraged that Miami has produced top 8 shot quality over the last 2 games with the Bam-Ware pairing?

Prioritizing process over results is a path to optimizing results.

Developmental season. New lineups. We’re mining for positive signals