twix2500 wrote:The biggest roster problem the Heat has is not Ware. Ware is playing like a 2nd year player on a team trying to contend. The biggest problem is Jovic. The Heat have committed to him contractually and is playing at a level lower than his rookie season. The question is should the Heat tend to getting Jovic back to being an effective player moreso than Ware? I would say, as of right now yes.
I believe Spo has to find an answer for Jovic. He was suppose to be starter this season, but he is playing below the level of a backup. Spo has to find a way for Jovic.
Looking at a Winslow 2.0 contract situation with Jovic. Very hard to deal him this year under the PPP with his contract jumping to 16 million. Cap is precious right now for many teams. Heat got suckered yet again
I think its too early to write him off. Its been disappointing yes. Spo almost got his full roster back and since he is adjusting the offense to help certain players, Jovic should be a player as well that Spo should adjust to offense for. Heat are in the middle of a playoff race with plenty of time. This month and next month is important to get the kinks and system right before its too late.
The only real must trade is Rozier and Fontecchio. One way or another they need to get something in return that is useful. Its one of the reason I think getting Porzingis should be a real target.
I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
twix2500 wrote:The biggest roster problem the Heat has is not Ware. Ware is playing like a 2nd year player on a team trying to contend. The biggest problem is Jovic. The Heat have committed to him contractually and is playing at a level lower than his rookie season. The question is should the Heat tend to getting Jovic back to being an effective player moreso than Ware? I would say, as of right now yes.
I believe Spo has to find an answer for Jovic. He was suppose to be starter this season, but he is playing below the level of a backup. Spo has to find a way for Jovic.
Looking at a Winslow 2.0 contract situation with Jovic. Very hard to deal him this year under the PPP with his contract jumping to 16 million. Cap is precious right now for many teams. Heat got suckered yet again
I think its too early to write him off. Its been disappointing yes. Spo almost got his full roster back and since he is adjusting the offense to help certain players, Jovic should be a player as well that Spo should adjust to offense for. Heat are in the middle of a playoff race with plenty of time. This month and next month is important to get the kinks and system right before its too late.
The only real must trade is Rozier and Fontecchio. One way or another they need to get something in return that is useful. Its one of the reason I think getting Porzingis should be a real target.
I thought he looked good playing with jaime, wiggins, pelle, and dru. They haven't returned to that unit since everyone got healthy. Hes struggled in every role outside of that group all season. They have a net rtg of +39 on the year. Its a group that shouldn't work well, but they do.
He's comfortable with certain players. And when his confidence is good, he's good. And we all know what it looks like when its bad. And it's been mostly bad.
Crazy-Canuck wrote: Imo, capspace will be used to absorb bad contracts for draft capital instead of making space for whales. Either compete or rebuild.
The okc build. The heat look like they will possibly strike out on those whales, and will overpay both herro and powell instead. And then try again later to attract the next big 3.
Right, that has been the more typical use. But we're likely going to see salaries go down for the upper middle class, which I would roughly define as guys making ~$28-$42M/season or ~2x-3x the MLE. This will be especially true for guards.
We've seen Golden State (Kuminga $23M/year, only 1st year guaranteed), Chicago (Josh Giddey $25M/year), Houston (VanVleet $25M/year), Indiana (A Nesmith $20M/year); only offering Turner $23M/year and him signing for $27M/year), and Portland (S Sharpe $22.5M/year, Camara $20M/year when they were eligible for $40M/year) show restraint this past summer, and I expect more of this is coming for guys like J Poole, McCollum, Herro, C White, Z Lavine...etc
So if you have a team largely comprised of guys making ~$10-$25M, matching salaries for guys making $45-$60M/season is going to be almost impossible without including 4-5 players. So either trade rules will need to be relaxed or teams are going to have to structure contracts and salaries so they can frequently find themselves with ~$15-$20M in space, with the potential to create more via partially guaranteed contracts, team options, and/or contracts that decline over the years.
Of course, you'll still get teams overpaying for players either because of a limited supply of FA/needle-moving players or because teams' bets on young players don't pay off (looking at you, Nikola Jovic, Keegan Murray, and Jabari Smith Jr), but the trend is moving quickly in the direction of teams being more conscious with the contracts they hand out.
Powell will need a minimum 3 yr deal. I don't think he get much value in the market, but do the heat risk losing him for nothing? What do you pay him?
Wiggins most likely opts out. He'd still get a decent 3 or 4 year deal after this one (likely his last). After the trade to the heat, I assume he'll want to control his own future rather than opt in and get traded. Do you sell him at the deadline even without picks? Or let him walk for nothing?
Then you have herro. He wants his 40M+ and even said as much in October. He is homegrown and has a huge fanbase in Miami. What do you give him?
How do the heat handle this and still think about opening up max capsoace in 2 years for giannis, mitchell, jokic etc..
I was watching a pod and they mentioning a bizarre triangle forming between miami, Memphis, and the bucks before the deadline.
"ESPN is projecting at least 10 teams -- Brooklyn, Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, LA Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Portland, Utah and Washington -- to have significant cap space." That's from ESPN, and they only named 9 teams, so dunno who the 10th team is.
Norman Powell
There is definitely a market for Powell. His problem is going to be that he'll be competing with younger guys, like Herro, C White, T Young, Anfernee Simons, Cam Thomas, and possibly B Mathurin for money. CJ McCollum will also be a FA. Still, I don't think he gets anything less than 3-years, ~$60M (N Walker Alexander got 4-years, $60M and he has a PO for year 4, so it's technically 3-years, $45M ; Duncan Robinson got 3-years, $48M, although only $18M is guaranteed).
My guess is Miami, Detroit, Chicago, and the Clippers would potentially have interest in signing him, and then you'd have a few contenders that'd be interested.
For Miami, it really depends where things stand with Herro, but I think Miami could get Powell to sign for 3-years, $60-75M. I don't know any other team would offer him $25M/year. If Miami is dead-set on having space in 2027, they could offer him 2-years, ~$50M or the 3-year deal with only a partial guarantee in year 3.
Andrew Wiggins
Wiggins should get paid either this summer or next. He's a two-way player with championship experience getting 16-5 on 47-40. The Lakers, Clippers, Detroit, and Miami would all have interest. My guess is he'll opt out.
I don't think Miami will trade Wiggins without getting their asking price. Worst-case is he opts out, but unless he goes to a team with space (Lakers?), a S&T would allow Miami to potentially get value.
Tyler Herro
Like Powell, he has the problem that so many shooting guards will be available at rates WAY below his reported asking price. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up playing another year in Miami (if not traded) given his injuries this year. Not sure who will have cap room in 2027, but if a bunch of teams are positioning themselves to have space then, he's probably better off waiting until 2027.
If I were running Miami, I would refuse to pay Herro anything north of $30M/year, which would basically mean the max would be a 4-year extension worth ~$120M, which would be a total of 5-years, ~$150M. I just don't think he's really worth much more than Alexander Walker (4-years, $60M), S Sharpe (4-years, $90M), Josh Giddey (4-years, $100M), or D Vassell (5-years, $135M). CJ McCollum is a good comp, imo, and he signed a 2-year, $64M extension in '24, but McCollum is likely to get MLE-ish money this time around.
The Trae Young trade really set Herro's value, imo. If Miami and Herro are really far apart on a #, Miami would be best off dealing him for Morant, LaMelo Ball, or someone like that and then re-signing Powell at a much more reasonable number.
I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
That deal is beatable.
The Cavs have to offer Mobley at this point. They have a couple of young guards on rookie deals + picks later in the decade they could offer when Giannis should be gone.
Atlanta has 1-2 Milwaukee picks, iirc, and could offer Porzingis, Okongwu, and Risacher.
If I am Detroit, I absolutely offer T Harris, J Ivey, and Ronald Holland + picks.
I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
That deal is beatable.
The Cavs have to offer Mobley at this point. They have a couple of young guards on rookie deals + picks later in the decade they could offer when Giannis should be gone.
Atlanta has 1-2 Milwaukee picks, iirc, and could offer Porzingis, Okongwu, and Risacher.
If I am Detroit, I absolutely offer T Harris, J Ivey, and Ronald Holland + picks.
We easily **** on that pistons package. Cavs aren’t trading Mobley despite him clearly being overrated and he won’t want to go to Atlanta although they could put together a better package.
All that being said, he won’t want to go to any of those places and he will go where he wants or at least give 2-3 teams (us and the Knicks will be in there). He’s wants money/no income tax, a big market, and the sun is what’s been reported. We’re a decent size market but not massive, we have no tax; and we have the sun. We check all 3 boxes, the Knicks check 1 AND we have a much better package than they can put together
3ammy3uck3ts wrote: I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
That deal is beatable.
The Cavs have to offer Mobley at this point. They have a couple of young guards on rookie deals + picks later in the decade they could offer when Giannis should be gone.
Atlanta has 1-2 Milwaukee picks, iirc, and could offer Porzingis, Okongwu, and Risacher.
If I am Detroit, I absolutely offer T Harris, J Ivey, and Ronald Holland + picks.
We easily **** on that pistons package. Cavs aren’t trading Mobley despite him clearly being overrated and he won’t want to go to Atlanta although they could put together a better package.
All that being said, he won’t want to go to any of those places and he will go where he wants or at least give 2-3 teams (us and the Knicks will be in there). He’s wants money/no income tax, a big market, and the sun is what’s been reported. We’re a decent size market but not massive, we have no tax; and we have the sun. We check all 3 boxes, the Knicks check 1 AND we have a much better package than they can put together
I think the Pistons' package depends on the # of picks/swaps. They could also include Ausar Thompson in place of Holland. I disagree on the Cavs not being willing to deal Mobley. If they were in the top-4 in the East right now, I'd agree, but they have to at least strongly consider offering Mobley for Giannis.
In any case, Miami's offer really depends on how Milwaukee feels about Ware as a prospect and if they have any interest in extending Herro. I'm not high on Ware and I think a lot of players in the league can give you 75-80% of Herro's production for half the cost, so my assessment of the value of Miami's package is fairly low. But if the Bucks are super high on Ware and are happy to give Herro ~$140-$150M then that's a different story.
I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
I was stalking the game threads of the bucks vs the wolves and spurs, and they're absolutely desperate for a rebuild and a tear down, they all hate doc (i dont know how he keeps getting HC jobs) and they're pretty much all in agreement giannis is just wasting away witb them.
Send wiggins to the Lakers (if Lakers can turn their frp into two worse future frps like they're trying to do) for Gabe vincent Rui and a frp, unlocks us being able to send bucks 3-4 frps.
Then you send Herro Ware Gabe to the Bucks. Bucks send us Giannis. Then we send Simone Rozier and a 2nd round pick to the wizards for Middleton. That gives giannis a familiar face and a vet to backup the 3 or 4 now that wiggs is gone.
So we'd have Davion KJ Dru Powell Pelle KJ Pelle JJJ Middleton Giannis Rui Jovic Bam Jovic Rui
We'd be bigger all around although we'd have no true center or backup to Bam. The trade works in trade machine. We would be sending out 5 players and taking in 4, so we could get someone on buyout market.
Or maybe instead of rozier Simone to wiz for Middleton (Middleton is almost certainly getting bought out), we send Utah jazz rozier for nurkic or to the bulls for vucevic and give them a 2nd rp.
I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
I was stalking the game threads of the bucks vs the wolves and spurs, and they're absolutely desperate for a rebuild and a tear down, they all hate doc (i dont know how he keeps getting HC jobs) and they're pretty much all in agreement giannis is just wasting away witb them.
This.
Although, I think he has a good reputation amongst players. I guess he keeps getting them because he's good at managing egos.
I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
I was stalking the game threads of the bucks vs the wolves and spurs, and they're absolutely desperate for a rebuild and a tear down, they all hate doc (i dont know how he keeps getting HC jobs) and they're pretty much all in agreement giannis is just wasting away witb them.
Send wiggins to the Lakers (if Lakers can turn their frp into two worse future frps like they're trying to do) for Gabe vincent Rui and a frp, unlocks us being able to send bucks 3-4 frps.
Then you send Herro Ware Gabe to the Bucks. Bucks send us Giannis. Then we send Simone Rozier and a 2nd round pick to the wizards for Middleton. That gives giannis a familiar face and a vet to backup the 3 or 4 now that wiggs is gone.
So we'd have Davion KJ Dru Powell Pelle KJ Pelle JJJ Middleton Giannis Rui Jovic Bam Jovic Rui
We'd be bigger all around although we'd have no true center or backup to Bam. The trade works in trade machine. We would be sending out 5 players and taking in 4, so we could get someone on buyout market.
Or maybe instead of rozier Simone to wiz for Middleton (Middleton is almost certainly getting bought out), we send Utah jazz rozier for nurkic or to the bulls for vucevic and give them a 2nd rp.
I’m hoping to keep Wiggins but I know beggars can’t be choosers. Wiggins/Giannis/Bam is easily the best and most versatile frontcourt in the league
3ammy3uck3ts wrote: I personally don’t think anyone is beating our package of Herro Ware Rozier and 2 1sts and none of them of that hometown connection like Tyler has. If you absolutely have to get another first we have avenues to do that. We also have Jaime and Kas if needed. None of the rumored teams are beating that and apparently based on the most recent reports it’s basically us vs the Knicks
I was stalking the game threads of the bucks vs the wolves and spurs, and they're absolutely desperate for a rebuild and a tear down, they all hate doc (i dont know how he keeps getting HC jobs) and they're pretty much all in agreement giannis is just wasting away witb them.
Send wiggins to the Lakers (if Lakers can turn their frp into two worse future frps like they're trying to do) for Gabe vincent Rui and a frp, unlocks us being able to send bucks 3-4 frps.
Then you send Herro Ware Gabe to the Bucks. Bucks send us Giannis. Then we send Simone Rozier and a 2nd round pick to the wizards for Middleton. That gives giannis a familiar face and a vet to backup the 3 or 4 now that wiggs is gone.
So we'd have Davion KJ Dru Powell Pelle KJ Pelle JJJ Middleton Giannis Rui Jovic Bam Jovic Rui
We'd be bigger all around although we'd have no true center or backup to Bam. The trade works in trade machine. We would be sending out 5 players and taking in 4, so we could get someone on buyout market.
Or maybe instead of rozier Simone to wiz for Middleton (Middleton is almost certainly getting bought out), we send Utah jazz rozier for nurkic or to the bulls for vucevic and give them a 2nd rp.
I’m hoping to keep Wiggins but I know beggars can’t be choosers. Wiggins/Giannis/Bam is easily the best and most versatile frontcourt in the league
We don't give up Wiggins and there's no way we have more than 2 frps to give the bucks. Unless we send wiggins to bucks with herro and then they flip him or just keep him idk.
Hopefully there is more push for Jakucionis taking Smith minutes.
Im getting DDV vibes but a better passer and less trigger happy but still a smooth stroke. Im not trading this dude. Guys like him and pelle are wildly valuable as depth and hustle/rebounds defense guys on good contracts.
Lennyzinho wrote: I was stalking the game threads of the bucks vs the wolves and spurs, and they're absolutely desperate for a rebuild and a tear down, they all hate doc (i dont know how he keeps getting HC jobs) and they're pretty much all in agreement giannis is just wasting away witb them.
Send wiggins to the Lakers (if Lakers can turn their frp into two worse future frps like they're trying to do) for Gabe vincent Rui and a frp, unlocks us being able to send bucks 3-4 frps.
Then you send Herro Ware Gabe to the Bucks. Bucks send us Giannis. Then we send Simone Rozier and a 2nd round pick to the wizards for Middleton. That gives giannis a familiar face and a vet to backup the 3 or 4 now that wiggs is gone.
So we'd have Davion KJ Dru Powell Pelle KJ Pelle JJJ Middleton Giannis Rui Jovic Bam Jovic Rui
We'd be bigger all around although we'd have no true center or backup to Bam. The trade works in trade machine. We would be sending out 5 players and taking in 4, so we could get someone on buyout market.
Or maybe instead of rozier Simone to wiz for Middleton (Middleton is almost certainly getting bought out), we send Utah jazz rozier for nurkic or to the bulls for vucevic and give them a 2nd rp.
I’m hoping to keep Wiggins but I know beggars can’t be choosers. Wiggins/Giannis/Bam is easily the best and most versatile frontcourt in the league
We don't give up Wiggins and there's no way we have more than 2 frps to give the bucks. Unless we send wiggins to bucks with herro and then they flip him or just keep him idk.
Based on the competition we’ve heard of for Giannis (The Knicks) 2 1sts along with Herro Terry and Ware seems like enough. You have Kas and/or Jaime if needed. If other get involved that have worthwhile assets we may need to figure out what to do with Wiggins, which should be pretty easy and obviously if you have to do it to get Giannis you do it. I’m just saying the last I remember of the Giannis rumor mill it was us and the Knicks as his preferences and Sam Amick continues to name drop is in every Giannis repor
Hopefully there is more push for Jakucionis taking Smith minutes.
Im getting DDV vibes but a better passer and less trigger happy but still a smooth stroke. Im not trading this dude. Guys like him and pelle are wildly valuable as depth and hustle/rebounds defense guys on good contracts.
If he develops his ceiling is pretty high obvi.
It appears that Spo is impressed with his development by the responsibilities he gives him when he does play. I guess it all comes down to how much of the scheme does Jakucionis understand enough to take off the leash and trust him as a full time rotation player.
