Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 2.0

[IceColdCubano]

Which leads me to wonder how someone like Joker would've been developed here. I have a lot more faith we could have developed Giannis for example.

To play devils advocate, Jokic would still be Jokic here, he would have been brought up slower than in Denver, that I agree. Lacking athletism, speed, and ability to switch on the perimeter would have put behind in the depth chart, but as soon as his playing time would of come, his production would have been phenominal.

There is a big difference however in that Jokic is a true Point center who would have been played at the center spot, if Bam was here it would mean one of the two would be gone or Bam would have had to learn to play the PF role. With Jovic you have a Point Forward instead, whom Miami relegates to the Tweeners, who have long wingspans and cover lots of ground with defense. Which is why Miami is forcing him to play the center spot, one its the only place they can find minutes for him at the moment and two they can keep players like Caleb, JJJ, Swider, Cain get the SF/PF minutes in a game where only 10 players were active.

[Hoops3355]

Trade Niko and Martin for Caruso.

Butler’s timeline is the agenda.

Waiting years to develop a player whose natural skillset is like a square peg to the this system’s round hole is futile.

I argue that we've moved on from Butler's to Bam agenda. It's not logical to build around the Butler timeline at the cost of flexibility in 2026.

[Sign5]

Trade Niko and Martin for Caruso.

Butler’s timeline is the agenda.

Waiting years to develop a player whose natural skillset is like a square peg to the this system’s round hole is futile.

I argue that we've moved on from Butler's to Bam agenda. It's not logical to build around the Butler timeline at the cost of flexibility in 2026.

Agreed, Bam has taken that next step where we can and SHOULD pivot to building around him going forward. Top 3 center and a top 15 player in the league. Although Butler's game isn't fully dependent on athleticism, he still has that quick first step that facilitates majority of his moves and once that's gone it'll be harder for him to score and draw as many fouls as he currently does.

Even a freak like LeBron isn't NEARLY as agile/quick as he once was. So wishful thinking that Butler can sustain this form for another 3 years, decline is inevitably coming. Thus, it's likely that this becomes Bam's team as early as next year and I expect Riles to maneuver around that fact.

[marson]

2026 is the next goal. The ship has sailed already. The reality is the core of Bam, Jimmy, and Herro have already peaked and 2020 and 2022 was the real shot to win the finals if all are healthy.

Now surround Bam, Herro, and Jaime with one of Bam's buddies and we may cause havoc.

I'm not expecting a championship these next 3 years but it's not gonna surprise me if we have one more finals appearance and God knows what might happen.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

2026 is the next goal. The ship has sailed already. The reality is the core of Bam, Jimmy, and Herro have already peaked and 2020 and 2022 was the real shot to win the finals if all are healthy.

Now surround Bam, Herro, and Jaime with one of Bam's buddies and we may cause havoc.

I'm not expecting a championship these next 3 years but it's not gonna surprise me if we have one more finals appearance and God knows what might happen.

It’s crazy to say they’ve peaked but that’s the reality of it and it’s due to the front office not doing what they could to maximize the talent around our top 2 guys. This core could have definitely won a championship, they have I believe one last chance this season but I have no faith in the front office doing what needs to be done as they haven’t done anything the last 4 years or so.

[AirP.]

2026 is the next goal. The ship has sailed already. The reality is the core of Bam, Jimmy, and Herro have already peaked and 2020 and 2022 was the real shot to win the finals if all are healthy.

Now surround Bam, Herro, and Jaime with one of Bam's buddies and we may cause havoc.

I'm not expecting a championship these next 3 years but it's not gonna surprise me if we have one more finals appearance and God knows what might happen.

It’s crazy to say they’ve peaked but that’s the reality of it and it’s due to the front office not doing what they could to maximize the talent around our top 2 guys. This core could have definitely won a championship, they have I believe one last chance this season but I have no faith in the front office doing what needs to be done as they haven’t done anything the last 4 years or so.

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

[Hoops3355]

2026 is the next goal. The ship has sailed already. The reality is the core of Bam, Jimmy, and Herro have already peaked and 2020 and 2022 was the real shot to win the finals if all are healthy.

Now surround Bam, Herro, and Jaime with one of Bam's buddies and we may cause havoc.

I'm not expecting a championship these next 3 years but it's not gonna surprise me if we have one more finals appearance and God knows what might happen.

It’s crazy to say they’ve peaked but that’s the reality of it and it’s due to the front office not doing what they could to maximize the talent around our top 2 guys. This core could have definitely won a championship, they have I believe one last chance this season but I have no faith in the front office doing what needs to be done as they haven’t done anything the last 4 years or so.

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

It's not really that Miami FO failed they just looked at a bigger picture that doesn't revolve around Jimmy and is looking out for the Organization. It's Bam and Tyler's timeline works out better and makes more sense to go all in on given our assets. We've never been serious about adding pieces outside of Dame given our Tax situation and Bam's impending contract. The Jimmy homers on here are upset about the FO, but as a Heat fan first it makes zero sense to go all in on Butler at this point.

Now if Jimmy had maybe developed his 3 while he'd been here we might be signing a different tale.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

2026 is the next goal. The ship has sailed already. The reality is the core of Bam, Jimmy, and Herro have already peaked and 2020 and 2022 was the real shot to win the finals if all are healthy.

Now surround Bam, Herro, and Jaime with one of Bam's buddies and we may cause havoc.

I'm not expecting a championship these next 3 years but it's not gonna surprise me if we have one more finals appearance and God knows what might happen.

It’s crazy to say they’ve peaked but that’s the reality of it and it’s due to the front office not doing what they could to maximize the talent around our top 2 guys. This core could have definitely won a championship, they have I believe one last chance this season but I have no faith in the front office doing what needs to be done as they haven’t done anything the last 4 years or so.

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

It’s very unfortunate

[AirP.]

It’s crazy to say they’ve peaked but that’s the reality of it and it’s due to the front office not doing what they could to maximize the talent around our top 2 guys. This core could have definitely won a championship, they have I believe one last chance this season but I have no faith in the front office doing what needs to be done as they haven’t done anything the last 4 years or so.

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

It's not really that Miami FO failed they just looked at a bigger picture that doesn't revolve around Jimmy and is looking out for the Organization. It's Bam and Tyler's timeline works out better and makes more sense to go all in on given our assets. We've never been serious about adding pieces outside of Dame given our Tax situation and Bam's impending contract. The Jimmy homers on here are upset about the FO, but as a Heat fan first it makes zero sense to go all in on Butler at this point.

Now if Jimmy had maybe developed his 3 while he'd been here we might be signing a different tale.

If he developed his 3? It's his fault while being one of the most efficient players to score 20+ ppg in the last 25 years and the FO couldn't put players around him? Really, this is what you're going with? Once he was going head to head against LeBron in the FINALS, putting up triple doubles and nearly winning a couple games by himself should have been a wake up call to the FO/ownership that they have the guy who can get you there if he has enough help, instead they let starters walk to chase after a whale... the first of 3 that they chased and didn't get and in reality, they haven't gotten a "whale" since 2010, Butler wasn't seen as a whale when they got him, they're nearing a decade and a half that this FO couldn't trade for a WHALE... which was their #1 priority. I get they didn't need one until LeBron left but that was nearly a decade ago.

Neither Bam or Herro will be able to do what Butler does, you have to find someone else who is near Butler's level on offense.
Bam's a great stabilizer for a good/great team but Herro is just a scorer and hasn't even proved he can give consistent scoring in the playoffs... he's averaging what 14 ppg, if you look at the rate it's at 17 points per36 and this is what you think the franchise should be working towards?

If Bam and Herro are 2 of your top 3 contracts, you better hope you have a MVP level player to go with them because that's what it's going to take.

I just don't get why most of this fanbase loves to look at potential and what they HOPE they can have in 3-4 years, it's been like this for a while. Wait until Winslow gets use to PG, hope Butler's signing doesn't stop his development because, then it's on! It's unbelievable.

[twix2500]

Go-too players the Heat have targeted to pair with Bam and Butler.

Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
Kyle Lowry
Damien Lillard

Any other go-too players the Heat targeted?

I told you all that the Lowry, Oladipo/Herro, Butler, Tucker and Adebayo team was it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

It’s crazy to say they’ve peaked but that’s the reality of it and it’s due to the front office not doing what they could to maximize the talent around our top 2 guys. This core could have definitely won a championship, they have I believe one last chance this season but I have no faith in the front office doing what needs to be done as they haven’t done anything the last 4 years or so.

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

It’s very unfortunate

I don't get why there wasn't a wakeup call for the organization after what Butler did in the 2020 finals, they let the team get worse the very next year to look down the road which I think is what this organization is about now. I'm much higher on a Bam/Jaquez Jr for the future than Bam/Herro for building towards a championship which would mean... I only think 1 piece of a championship team is in place after Butler... and that's Bam as the foundation and his clock is ticking, once some athletic ability leaves him he may be done as one of your top players. Bam's 26, how many high level years are left for him before his decline, 5, 6? I do wonder when the fanbase will start talking about trading Bam for a rebuild around whoever they think is the next big thing on the roster.

[AirP.]

Go-too players the Heat have targeted to pair with Bam and Butler.

Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
Kyle Lowry
Damien Lillard

Any other go-too players the Heat targeted?

I told you all that the Lowry, Oladipo/Herro, Butler, Tucker and Adebayo team was it.

I get this, Lowry isn't going to be traded, been saying this since the offseason, they're getting under the tax next year with Bam age 27 next year will probably be the same but less with Lowry gone, Butler may start declining noticeably in 2-3 years and then you're looking at building around Bam at age 28-29? Butler was 30 when he got to Miami, had a young star in Bam already on the roster and really nothing else was brought in.

On the 2 they got, Oladipo was damaged good that there was hope he could get back to a high level after basically missing multiple years of high level play. Lowry was done, he was on the backend of his career but who else was out there since the 2021 plan blew up when Giannis sighed his supermax at the end of the offseason in 2020.

It's starting to look like a treadmill but at least it's a winning treadmill with a very good coach, it's a lot better than most franchises have and Jaquez Jr looks like he could become a very good player.

[VaDe255]

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

It’s very unfortunate

I don't get why there wasn't a wakeup call for the organization after what Butler did in the 2020 finals, they let the team get worse the very next year to look down the road which I think is what this organization is about now. I'm much higher on a Bam/Jaquez Jr for the future than Bam/Herro for building towards a championship which would mean... I only think 1 piece of a championship team is in place after Butler... and that's Bam as the foundation and his clock is ticking, once some athletic ability leaves him he may be done as one of your top players. Bam's 26, how many high level years are left for him before his decline, 5, 6? I do wonder when the fanbase will start talking about trading Bam for a rebuild around whoever they think is the next big thing on the roster.

I really don't get the Herro hate.
He's 23y, what do you expect from him?
He's already near allstar level, the scoring efficiency is improving and his defense looks much better.

Jamal Murray was enough to get Denver over the hump and the difference between Herro and Murray is not much at all.

[AirP.]

It’s very unfortunate

I don't get why there wasn't a wakeup call for the organization after what Butler did in the 2020 finals, they let the team get worse the very next year to look down the road which I think is what this organization is about now. I'm much higher on a Bam/Jaquez Jr for the future than Bam/Herro for building towards a championship which would mean... I only think 1 piece of a championship team is in place after Butler... and that's Bam as the foundation and his clock is ticking, once some athletic ability leaves him he may be done as one of your top players. Bam's 26, how many high level years are left for him before his decline, 5, 6? I do wonder when the fanbase will start talking about trading Bam for a rebuild around whoever they think is the next big thing on the roster.

I really don't get the Herro hate.
He's 23y, what do you expect from him?
He's already near allstar level, the scoring efficiency is improving and his defense looks much better.

Jamal Murray was enough to get Denver over the hump and the difference between Herro and Murray is not much at all.

Herro hate I guess on this board since if you say anything other than he's a future top nba player it seems to be hate. I just don't see him as good enough to be a difference maker for a championship quality team although he's been treated that way since after his rookie season. Herro has some good qualities, he doesn't back down from the moment, has a great outside shot, is a hard worker but he has some really questionable decision making on the court which I believe will hold a team back. The FO has taken a big gamble with him, Herro had value, could have been packaged in previous years for help to win a title which maybe Miami would have gotten in the last 4 seasons and instead you now have a high volume scorer who still isn't all that efficient.

To be fair, Westbrook and his low IQ decisions (like looking off an open KD to take his own 3pt shot) kept me from converting a Thunder fan (since I live in OKC) years ago because I thought his decision making was horrible but at least Westbrook was a force of nature on the court.

[al bondiga]

My opinion on the post on jokic...spo is a very good coach and sometimes even a genius... BUT BEING REAL... There are very little possibilities that a player with The characteristics jokic has, Makes this team more than Four years in a row... spo Like his Players to Have totally opposite characteristics Even though his personality is spot on what eric likes

different strokes for different folks

The closest has been McRoberts, and we all agree, I think,
Even he had more athleticism Than the joker

[al bondiga]

I agree, Even though it's too early to say, in the eyes of the Miami Heat organization. Bam and j j j may have more future than then herro - bam combo

[al bondiga]

the 2020 finals Where literally and figuratively a bubble... You can't judge jb OR This team based on them

[VaDe255]

I don't get why there wasn't a wakeup call for the organization after what Butler did in the 2020 finals, they let the team get worse the very next year to look down the road which I think is what this organization is about now. I'm much higher on a Bam/Jaquez Jr for the future than Bam/Herro for building towards a championship which would mean... I only think 1 piece of a championship team is in place after Butler... and that's Bam as the foundation and his clock is ticking, once some athletic ability leaves him he may be done as one of your top players. Bam's 26, how many high level years are left for him before his decline, 5, 6? I do wonder when the fanbase will start talking about trading Bam for a rebuild around whoever they think is the next big thing on the roster.

I really don't get the Herro hate.
He's 23y, what do you expect from him?
He's already near allstar level, the scoring efficiency is improving and his defense looks much better.

Jamal Murray was enough to get Denver over the hump and the difference between Herro and Murray is not much at all.

Herro hate I guess on this board since if you say anything other than he's a future top nba player it seems to be hate. I just don't see him as good enough to be a difference maker for a championship quality team although he's been treated that way since after his rookie season. Herro has some good qualities, he doesn't back down from the moment, has a great outside shot, is a hard worker but he has some really questionable decision making on the court which I believe will hold a team back. The FO has taken a big gamble with him, Herro had value, could have been packaged in previous years for help to win a title which maybe Miami would have gotten in the last 4 seasons and instead you now have a high volume scorer who still isn't all that efficient.

To be fair, Westbrook and his low IQ decisions (like looking off an open KD to take his own 3pt shot) kept me from converting a Thunder fan (since I live in OKC) years ago because I thought his decision making was horrible but at least Westbrook was a force of nature on the court.

I don't know if Herro can be a difference maker on a championship team. Nobody does.
We'll see it this year, because they are banking on him to be one.

[twix2500]

It’s very unfortunate

I don't get why there wasn't a wakeup call for the organization after what Butler did in the 2020 finals, they let the team get worse the very next year to look down the road which I think is what this organization is about now. I'm much higher on a Bam/Jaquez Jr for the future than Bam/Herro for building towards a championship which would mean... I only think 1 piece of a championship team is in place after Butler... and that's Bam as the foundation and his clock is ticking, once some athletic ability leaves him he may be done as one of your top players. Bam's 26, how many high level years are left for him before his decline, 5, 6? I do wonder when the fanbase will start talking about trading Bam for a rebuild around whoever they think is the next big thing on the roster.

I really don't get the Herro hate.
He's 23y, what do you expect from him?
He's already near allstar level, the scoring efficiency is improving and his defense looks much better.

Jamal Murray was enough to get Denver over the hump and the difference between Herro and Murray is not much at all.

I do not think its Herro hate there is a difference of opinion on what his ceiling is. I think majority on here do not believe Herro can be the #1 go-too guy on a title team. Hell many do not believe Butler could have been or can be either. It appears that the Heat doesn't believe so as well. Thus they continue to look for one. Doesn't mean you can't win a title with Herro. IMO the Heat could win a title with the Herro if they could form a big four and I think that was the hope for getting Lowry in the short term and Oladipo in the long term. But neither panned out. If Oladipo was rehab able I would say it's a good chance that Dipo, Herro, Butler and Bam would of been a very good big four.

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

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The one that got away and also put me over the edge of not giving a fuxk.