2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[3ammy3uck3ts]

No one else is encouraged that Miami has produced top 8 shot quality over the last 2 games with the Bam-Warr pairing?

Prioritizing process over results is a path to optimizing results.

Developmental season. New lineups. We’re mining for positive signals

I personally am. MWP and I have been begging to get Bam a long term running mate at the 4 or 5 for literal years now while we recycled washed up vets and undrafted guys at the position and it seems like we’ve finally found it so I’m pretty happy about that.

Now get Fox this summer and figure out the best fit at the 3 whether it’s someone on the team now or an upgrade from the outside and we’re right back in contention. Quick little retool

[MettaWorldPanda]

No one else is encouraged that Miami has produced top 8 shot quality over the last 2 games with the Bam-Warr pairing?

Prioritizing process over results is a path to optimizing results.

Developmental season. New lineups. We’re mining for positive signals

Lots of shots just nobody to make them. Spo should keep messing with the 1-3 spots until they can. Even Duncan can’t find any consistency

[Shewasfly]

Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.

He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.

He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.

There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.

All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.

To be fair, pretty much no one says the latter. I've not heard anybody say anything like bam being some easily replaceable scrub.

You more often see two things. 1) His very vocal and obsessed fans hyping him above and beyond what the rest of us see in reality. So people are going to respond to that to correct/challenge it. I mean there was just a conversation with Cherry picked numbers to pretend that AD and Bam have anywhere near the same offensive bag or offensive impact. Previously there were the repeated lies about Bam and Bosh being similar offensively. People don't like their intelligence played with I guess.

The second thing you often see is those same very vocal and obsessed fans scapegoating any and everything else in the organization, as a reason for why Bam is clearly not what they otherwise claim him to be. Again, people are going to step in and speak to that to correct it.

I think once you stop that overzealous talk from his fans, I very much doubt that you see the amount of bam conversation you see on here. And strangely that's something that his fans should really appreciate, because there's pretty much no other player I can think of that would be getting the max and have as few expectations to meet as Bam without extreme harsh criticism. Bam actually gets to skate on a lot because of how important he is to our defense.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Feel like Alec Burks would be thriving with this group but Spo always finds a way to keep shelving him.

[Shewasfly]

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

This is what I mean, and I'm not even calling this poster out in particular but it's a great example. There is zero account for Bam's ability to finish in takes like this. It's just everyone else's fault.

You look at the amount of points he's assisted on, but in actually looking with context and at the game, you can see that Bam gets looks and he is not able to finish.

Sometimes the looks don't even end up resulting in a shot attempt because he mishandles the ball. As fans of the team we should be able to say that and even complain about it and move on without being bombarded with stats that essentially try to gaslight us into "not believing our lying eyes" but just these carefully curated stats.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

This is what I mean, and I'm not even calling this poster out in particular but it's a great example. There is zero account for Bam's ability to finish in takes like this. It's just everyone else's fault.

You look at the amount of points he's assisted on, but in actually looking with context and at the game, you can see that Bam gets looks and he is not able to finish.

Sometimes the looks don't even end up resulting in a shot attempt because he mishandles the ball. As fans of the team we should be able to say that and even complain about it and move on without being bombarded with stats that essentially try to gaslight us into "not believing our lying eyes" but just these carefully curated stats.

All you have to do is compare his shot quality to others to disprove your entire post

[balla345]

Bam/ware/Herro is the future. So how to maximize that starting 5. We need a top 10 3nD type starter SF. Highsmith probably the best we have now but he’s not good enough and a playmaking pg which we currently don’t have

[Flash4thewin]

I am going to try to give some of the convo flowing here some direction/context. Given the seemingly minimal options for landing spots for Butler AND Miami's apparent desire to avoid taking contracts that go beyond 2026 barring a long-term piece (only see Zion fitting this criteria based on who is available):

1. I am curious as to whether or not the franchise sees Herro's play this year as something they'd like to continue to pursue and build around or if they think him doing so much on offense is ok for now, but will cut it back if/when they can bring other players in.

2. I wonder whether the franchise still takes the view Herro/Bam is 1 player away from having a trio that gets you in the running for a title or if they think they need two players who are better than them.

Bam, imo, is basically a bigger, better version of Draymond Green and Herro is a good but, like Bam, I just don't see him being a perennial all-star or all-NBA team guy.

We had a player who was better, and it was enough to get us to the finals, but not enough to win it all. We need a new superstar to build around, not just a star to add to what we have.

3. I'd like to know if Miami still sees Robinson putting up as many 3s as possible as part of a winning strategy and if they'd like to re-sign him at a more manageable number when his contract runs out.

4. Lastly, I am super curious to see if Miami uses the Butler trade demand to make big roster changes with some combo of Rozier, Robinson, JJJ, K Love being shipped out. It seems like it is going to require 4-6 teams, depending on where Butler ends up, and that must mean A LOT of people are going to be on the move.

I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to renounce Duncan because his cap hold is ~ $30 million, and re-signing him early at a much lower number would eat into our cap space for that offseason.

This is actually a really good and hard question, what to do with Duncan. Assuming we dont trade Jimmy, just for cap and tax reasons I see us cutting Duncan to get under. If he does survive and is still on the team next year, what number do we resign him for? MLE money or less? Assuming we miss out on a whale, I guess we are forced to resign him but then that would eat up capspace for the next year to go whale hunting.

[greg4012]

Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.

He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.

He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.

There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.

All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.

To be fair, pretty much no one says the latter. I've not heard anybody say anything like bam being some easily replaceable scrub.

You more often see two things. 1) His very vocal and obsessed fans hyping him above and beyond what the rest of us see in reality. So people are going to respond to that to correct/challenge it. I mean there was just a conversation with Cherry picked numbers to pretend that AD and Bam have anywhere near the same offensive bag or offensive impact. Previously there were the repeated lies about Bam and Bosh being similar offensively. People don't like their intelligence played with I guess.

The second thing you often see is those same very vocal and obsessed fans scapegoating any and everything else in the organization, as a reason for why Bam is clearly not what they otherwise claim him to be. Again, people are going to step in and speak to that to correct it.

I think once you stop that overzealous talk from his fans, I very much doubt that you see the amount of bam conversation you see on here. And strangely that's something that his fans should really appreciate, because there's pretty much no other player I can think of that would be getting the max and have as few expectations to meet as Bam without extreme harsh criticism. Bam actually gets to skate on a lot because of how important he is to our defense.

Basically everyone on the board goes crazy because one fan--Bammy--thinks he can be a #1 option? That's the rationale?

I only defend Bam from absurd overreach in the opposite direction while remaining clear-eyed as to the archetype of player he is and how he is not set up optimally right now, but always provides a baseline that IMO is underappreciated by most as they think any positive defender floating around the NBA can replicate it.

But, please go back through my posts and refute my points. You asked about how Bam was defended in midrange shooting compared to AD. I provided data. Didn't hear from you after I shared the link and database for you to dig into it further.

[batterybro42]

Love to see Bam stans versus not so much stans going at it

at the end of the day we should all be Heat stans.

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

It’s because we are paying Bam to be something he currently isn’t in the hope he evolves into something more. He’s going to be taking up nearly 1/3rd of our cap while we perform that experiment. Some people think that with the space he opens up and the capital we could get back in return, would go much further than what Bam will likely provide.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.

He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.

He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.

There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.

All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.

To be fair, pretty much no one says the latter. I've not heard anybody say anything like bam being some easily replaceable scrub.

You more often see two things. 1) His very vocal and obsessed fans hyping him above and beyond what the rest of us see in reality. So people are going to respond to that to correct/challenge it. I mean there was just a conversation with Cherry picked numbers to pretend that AD and Bam have anywhere near the same offensive bag or offensive impact. Previously there were the repeated lies about Bam and Bosh being similar offensively. People don't like their intelligence played with I guess.

The second thing you often see is those same very vocal and obsessed fans scapegoating any and everything else in the organization, as a reason for why Bam is clearly not what they otherwise claim him to be. Again, people are going to step in and speak to that to correct it.

I think once you stop that overzealous talk from his fans, I very much doubt that you see the amount of bam conversation you see on here. And strangely that's something that his fans should really appreciate, because there's pretty much no other player I can think of that would be getting the max and have as few expectations to meet as Bam without extreme harsh criticism. Bam actually gets to skate on a lot because of how important he is to our defense.

Basically everyone on the board goes crazy because one fan--Bammy--thinks he can be a #1 option? That's the rationale?

I only defend Bam from absurd overreach in the opposite direction while remaining clear-eyed as to the archetype of player he is and how he is not set up optimally right now, but always provides a baseline that IMO is underappreciated by most as they think any positive defender floating around the NBA can replicate it.

But, please go back through my posts and refute my points. You asked about how Bam was defended in midrange shooting compared to AD. I provided data. Didn't hear from you after I shared the link and database for you to dig into it further.

And that’s the thing, I don’t even think he can be a number 1 scoring option on a championship team. I think he could put up numbers on a trash team as a 1st option like Bosh did but on a championship team I prefer him as the 3rd scoring option (not 3rd best player, he can be 2nd) and he’s shown he can be that. Maybe he can be 2nd when fully developed but who knows. We’ve made deep runs with him as a 2nd option, just needed that extra offensive push to get over the hump.

20-10-5 while being the best defender in the world is a top 25 player in the world, he has been for years just having a down year right now, people just like to be dense and ignore the facts

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Love to see Bam stans versus not so much stans going at it

at the end of the day we should all be Heat stans.

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

It’s because we are paying Bam to be something he currently isn’t in the hope he evolves into something more. He’s going to be taking up nearly 1/3rd of our cap while we perform that experiment. Some people think that with the space he opens up and the capital we could get back in return, would go much further than what Bam will likely provide.

He is easily worth 1/3 of the cap, he’s shown that time after time.

[batterybro42]

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

You all need to quit throwing around the term max salary. It doesn't mean anything.

Bam: $34,848,340

Curry: $55,761,216 <--- actual max money

Bam's max is not the NBA max. Not by a long shot.

In two years when Bam's salary jumps to $48 million, Curry will be earning $62 million.

Forget the terms max contract, max salary, and max money. All they do is confuse fans.

But its convenient for validating emotional arguments

I guess to simplify what many people are saying is that we would have TWO max spots available with Bam you only have 1

So if you move Bam not only are you likely to get a haul of picks back, but you also open up another MAX slot to potentially bring in a top 20 player in the league.

The salary numbers are somewhat irrelevant

[greg4012]

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

This is what I mean, and I'm not even calling this poster out in particular but it's a great example. There is zero account for Bam's ability to finish in takes like this. It's just everyone else's fault.

You look at the amount of points he's assisted on, but in actually looking with context and at the game, you can see that Bam gets looks and he is not able to finish.

Sometimes the looks don't even end up resulting in a shot attempt because he mishandles the ball. As fans of the team we should be able to say that and even complain about it and move on without being bombarded with stats that essentially try to gaslight us into "not believing our lying eyes" but just these carefully curated stats.

Let's discuss it. Bam isnt the finisher that the freakiest offensive big men in the NBA are. No issue with that but it holds us back on some potential looks. That's what's excellent about adding Ware. He has one of the biggest catch radii in the NBA and is coordinated at it. Nonetheless, Bam still is a 73% career finisher within 3 feet of the rim. One of the main things that will always hold him back from producing offense at a rate comparable to the top scoring bigs in the NBA is that he can't generate the same volume of rim looks as the elite (AD, Joel, etc). So he's not gonna become a #1 scoring option off those actions. I'm at peace with that so long as enough other boxes are checked.

Yes Bam fumbles some balls--his hand width is actually sub-optimal relative to the rest of his measurables--low key is a root issue IMO. Let's look at turnover data to assess impact of that. No one likes how the aesthetics look, but let's drill into the actual impact and rate of occurrence over the course of a game:

- This season Bam is 26th among players that have a "center" designation in Turnover Ratio (minimum 15 games played and minimum of 20 min per game).
- Among that same group, Bam is 5th in assist % and 6th in assist to turnover

So we have a player that fumbles some inlet balls and isn't able to generate the volume rim looks at a rate comensurate with elite offensive bigs, but he at least is able to compensate with discernment in those scenarios (see Assist numbers, turnover numbers, and rim %) and plus handle and ability to convert the good looks and find other offense when it's not a good look. There's still meat on the bones if Miami gets a league average lead playmaker or slahser.

Do you honestly think that hes set up with even average NBA playmaking? Do you suggest that Herro would be a top 15 assist guy if he wasn't held back by Bam?

Do you think it's Bam's finishing that has Miami as the 26th ranked team in paint penetration?

[batterybro42]

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

We are on year 5 or 6 of this supposed leap

Every single offseason it gets hyped and they drop video of Bam out at the pro am or doing workouts showcasing his perimeter skills only for him to regress back to try hard dunk man. The scary thing is to get his scoring back up he will be encouraged to take more of that awful highly contested free throw line fall away that has become his go to scoring move since he has no bag.

Are you arguing Bam should be the number 1 option on offense and take a higher volume of shots? Sounds like a great way to tank.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

We are on year 5 or 6 of this supposed leap

Every single offseason it gets hyped and they drop video of Bam out at the pro am or doing workouts showcasing his perimeter skills only for him to regress back to try hard dunk man. The scary thing is to get his scoring back up he will be encouraged to take more of that awful highly contested free throw line fall away that has become his go to scoring move since he has no bag.

Are you arguing Bam should be the number 1 option on offense and take a higher volume of shots? Sounds like a great way to tank.

Bam has increased his skill every season in the league up until this year where he is working to develop a 3 (again I gave you comparable numbers several times). He almost broke the record for most consecutive seasons increasing his PPG and would’ve tied it if not for the Terry acquisition knifing his usage and shot attempts. He has improved his range every season from the rim now working towards the 3, you all just have literally no patience. God forbid he’s not shooting 50% from 3 on 8 attempts right from the jump.

Someone who completely lacks an offensive game like you all love to pretend doesn’t have several seasons putting up 20 PPG, isn’t among the leaders in assists from his position yearly, doesn’t always improve the offense when he’s on the court struggling or not, and doesn’t lead the league in points in the paint for an entire season despite mediocre playmaking next to him

[greg4012]

Love to see Bam stans versus not so much stans going at it

at the end of the day we should all be Heat stans.

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

It’s because we are paying Bam to be something he currently isn’t in the hope he evolves into something more. He’s going to be taking up nearly 1/3rd of our cap while we perform that experiment. Some people think that with the space he opens up and the capital we could get back in return, would go much further than what Bam will likely provide.

How many players better than Bam come out of each draft class? What are the odds of getting the pick needed to get one of those players? It's "nearly 1/3 of our cap" now. Before it was "$60M" (which was false), so we're getting somewhere. It's actually 25% of the salary cap this season and 19% of the allotted payroll. At its highest, his current contract projects to peak at 30% of projected 2027 salary (which will end up being like 25% or less of Miami's allotted payroll using exceptions and bird rights to go over the salary cap).

It's also perfectly set up to ensure that Miami is basically getting an extremely dynamic starting frontcourt with Ware on a rookie contract for about 33% of the salary cap through the life of Bam's current contract. Seems pretty good to me.

I'm already seeing signs of Bam being good for Ware. That's the thesis that I believe Miami is pursuing. Very dynamic combination of skills that with development can be superior to any other NBA front court.

Here's an interesting sample I noticed. Below are Ware's scoring highlights from last game. 22 points in 35 minutes played. F**K yea. If you watch each possession, you note that, despite Bam and Ware only sharing the court for something like 15 minutes that game, 16 of Ware's 22 points came when they were sharing the floor! Probably some coincidence in there, but I see how Bam's ballhandling, people moving, and floor game all help Ware flow to easier finishing looks. I'd be curious to see how many of Ware's 4 turnovers came during those minutes shared vs the other 20 or so min he was on the floor without Bam. Little things to build on.

Watch on YouTube

[batterybro42]

Bam has been forced to be a #2 offensive option for a team that's #1 takes half the regular season off and never wants to ramp his usage over 25%. Bam has been the big man finisher for a team that has had LEAGUE-WORST perimeter playmaking ever since Lowry flamed out. Bam has literally had less of his FGM assisted than almost any other starting center in the NBA. Bam has had less of his FGM assisted than the majority of starting PFs in the NBA this season. These arent emotional fabrications I'm referencing. THey are verifiable facts.

To think that there isn't room for Bam's offensive game to easily become more efficient while maintaining 15-20 ppg depending on surrounding personnel is to show a dearth of critical thinking (or an inherent bias)

Keep trying to weave your emotional fabrications into reality. Really compelling.

We are on year 5 or 6 of this supposed leap

Every single offseason it gets hyped and they drop video of Bam out at the pro am or doing workouts showcasing his perimeter skills only for him to regress back to try hard dunk man. The scary thing is to get his scoring back up he will be encouraged to take more of that awful highly contested free throw line fall away that has become his go to scoring move since he has no bag.

Are you arguing Bam should be the number 1 option on offense and take a higher volume of shots? Sounds like a great way to tank.

Bam has increased his skill every season in the league up until this year where he is working to develop a 3 (again I gave you comparable numbers several times). He almost broke the record for most consecutive seasons increasing his PPG and would’ve tied it if not for the Terry acquisition knifing his usage and shot attempts. He has improved his range every season from the rim now working towards the 3, you all just have literally no patience. God forbid he’s not shooting 50% from 3 on 8 attempts right from the jump.

Someone who completely lacks an offensive game like you all love to pretend doesn’t have several seasons putting up 20 PPG, isn’t among the leaders in assists from his position yearly, doesn’t always improve the offense when he’s on the court struggling or not, and doesn’t lead the league in points in the paint for an entire season despite mediocre playmaking next to him

Bam only needs 5 more years to develop his bag and he will be able to shoot 35% from 3 on decent volume.

It’s not even close. It’s not even like he’s able to hit deep range 2s at a decent clip like Lopez or Horford used to before they figured out that they can take 2 steps backwards. There are zero indicators that he will ever be a guy you want shooting 3s and it’s not like he’s never shot them. It’s been a focal point of his offseason development every year of his career.

[greg4012]

You all need to quit throwing around the term max salary. It doesn't mean anything.

Bam: $34,848,340

Curry: $55,761,216 <--- actual max money

Bam's max is not the NBA max. Not by a long shot.

In two years when Bam's salary jumps to $48 million, Curry will be earning $62 million.

Forget the terms max contract, max salary, and max money. All they do is confuse fans.

But its convenient for validating emotional arguments

I guess to simplify what many people are saying is that we would have TWO max spots available with Bam you only have 1

So if you move Bam not only are you likely to get a haul of picks back, but you also open up another MAX slot to potentially bring in a top 20 player in the league.

The salary numbers are somewhat irrelevant

Miami has been fishing to get MAX players in free agency for the past decade. That avenue is effectively dead given that anyone who makes All-NBA is financially disincentivized from leaving their team. It sucks bc Miami is made for free agency and has benefited greatly from it. In the absence of it, Miami is fishing for the next tier of disgruntled star to either come in free agency (how Miami got Jimmy via S&T) or trade for a player under contract that wants out. As we've seen with the likes of Dame and Durant, that costs A LOT of draft capital.

I don't see banking on finding TWO disgruntled stars that are worth it as upgrades over Bam and either (1) are about to enter free agency and not incentivized to stay with their current team since they didn't get supermax eligible or (2) just demand out and are on multi-year contracts and thus worth a sh*t ton of draft capital as an excitingly viable way forward in the modern NBA structure.

The odds of threading the needle to bring in 2 top 20 players via free agency or expensive trade in the modern NBA landscape within a 3-year window seems EXTREMELY low. It's hard enough to get one.

I get it if you just want to tank and go for a 5+ year rebuild. But, that's not my preference.