Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 2.0

[Hoops3355]

Miami is on it's 5th year with Butler, nearly half a decade which has lead Miami to just 1 season of not at least making the ECF... yet still haven't made a big move to the Butler and Bam help. After his performance in the finals of 2020 I would have thought this organization would have been all in, in Butler's window but they haven't.

It is wild to hear a Riley organization saying they didn't think Beal was worth 20 million more a year than Herro costing nearly nothing in assets other then Herro vs trading for Lillard costing Herro, a bunch of assets and him being older than Beal by 3 years. It's starting to look like Miami mask themselves as an organization that tries not to go over the tax by chasing players they can't get. So far they said no to CP3 on the cheap in 2019, cut payroll to chase Giannis which failed, froze the offseason to chase KD and said no to Beal and froze the off season to chase Lillard with Portland refusing to talk to them.

The best you can say about Miami's talent acquisition since getting Butler is that Miami has failed with all it's attempts to add to Butler and Bam in nearly half a decade while having a couple of high level NBA players almost given to Miami and have the FO/ownership say no thanks.

It's not really that Miami FO failed they just looked at a bigger picture that doesn't revolve around Jimmy and is looking out for the Organization. It's Bam and Tyler's timeline works out better and makes more sense to go all in on given our assets. We've never been serious about adding pieces outside of Dame given our Tax situation and Bam's impending contract. The Jimmy homers on here are upset about the FO, but as a Heat fan first it makes zero sense to go all in on Butler at this point.

Now if Jimmy had maybe developed his 3 while he'd been here we might be signing a different tale.

If he developed his 3? It's his fault while being one of the most efficient players to score 20+ ppg in the last 25 years and the FO couldn't put players around him? Really, this is what you're going with? Once he was going head to head against LeBron in the FINALS, putting up triple doubles and nearly winning a couple games by himself should have been a wake up call to the FO/ownership that they have the guy who can get you there if he has enough help, instead they let starters walk to chase after a whale... the first of 3 that they chased and didn't get and in reality, they haven't gotten a "whale" since 2010, Butler wasn't seen as a whale when they got him, they're nearing a decade and a half that this FO couldn't trade for a WHALE... which was their #1 priority. I get they didn't need one until LeBron left but that was nearly a decade ago.

Neither Bam or Herro will be able to do what Butler does, you have to find someone else who is near Butler's level on offense.
Bam's a great stabilizer for a good/great team but Herro is just a scorer and hasn't even proved he can give consistent scoring in the playoffs... he's averaging what 14 ppg, if you look at the rate it's at 17 points per36 and this is what you think the franchise should be working towards?

If Bam and Herro are 2 of your top 3 contracts, you better hope you have a MVP level player to go with them because that's what it's going to take.

I just don't get why most of this fanbase loves to look at potential and what they HOPE they can have in 3-4 years, it's been like this for a while. Wait until Winslow gets use to PG, hope Butler's signing doesn't stop his development because, then it's on! It's unbelievable.

It's nothing against Jimmy. It's just about extending his career beyond his current contract. His lack of 3p development is just doesn't track well imo. Jimmy was close both times but go derailed due to injuries we definitely would have had a closer series but luck is part of the draw there.

People love potential because fandom is a long game, and it doesn't have to be this dramatic part of your existence that requires you to be negative all the time. Getting excited about players you like isn't a sin. You're acting like we're living in squalor, talking about how bad it's been for a while. But looking back since Pat Riley came on board, you wouldn't trade this team for 9x% of the other organizations out there. They've created three different runs to the championship, with two resulting in banners.

In terms of 2/3. Bam and Tyler's significant progress this off-season and the continued factual evidence of their ability to grind, along with the organization's ability to develop role players, at least makes a ton of sense why they've been patient. They don't want a situation where you can't build around prime Bam like what happened with Wade post Shaq it's the same ****.

IMO they want access to the non tax payer MLE next offseason and want to maintain the ability to land a potential MVP-caliber player in 2026. You can't do that if we go all in on Jimmy. We're going to get him his championship, but he might not be the guy that leads the team there.

[Mickey8]

My opinion on the post on jokic...spo is a very good coach and sometimes even a genius... BUT BEING REAL... There are very little possibilities that a player with The characteristics jokic has, Makes this team more than Four years in a row... spo Like his Players to Have totally opposite characteristics Even though his personality is spot on what eric likes

different strokes for different folks

The closest has been McRoberts, and we all agree, I think,
Even he had more athleticism Than the joker

Michael Malone held back Jokic for an entire rookie season and the part of his sophomore season until the owner of Denver Nuggets interfered and suggested to their GM to "advise" Malone to start Jokic, the rest is the history.

[AirP.]

It's nothing against Jimmy. It's just about extending his career beyond his current contract. His lack of 3p development is just doesn't track well imo. Jimmy was close both times but go derailed due to injuries we definitely would have had a closer series but luck is part of the draw there.

Beyond his current contract, he's got 2 more years, at the end of that contract he'll have been in Miami 7 years with quite possibly no big acquisitions and Bam will be 29 that year after Butler's last contract... basically in the same position as Butler was when he got to Miami.

People love potential because fandom is a long and challenging game, and it doesn't have to be this dramatic part of your existence that requires you to be negative all the time. Getting excited about players you like isn't a sin. You're acting like we're living in squalor, talking about how bad it's been for a while. But looking back since Pat Riley came on board, you wouldn't trade this team for 9x% of the other organizations out there. They've created three different runs to the championship, with two resulting in banners.

It's fine to love potential but what is happening in Miami is basically develop a player till they hit 24-26, get a few good years from them, now trade for the next shiny thing, that makes very little sense and doesn't give a team a big enough window to really build a team.

Miami has had 3 different runs all because of Wade, Wade is the reason Butler went to Miami, he was sold within 5 minutes of the meeting.

Up until near the end of the big 3 Riley and this organization was great, something happened in the mid 2010s with the FO's mindset, probably age which can change a person, maybe LeBron just turning his back on Riley and for whatever reason this organization has played it pretty safe although Riley does trades that way, always offer less and you never lose a trade.

In terms of 2/3. Bam and Tyler's significant progress this off-season and the continued factual evidence of their ability to grind, along with the organization's ability to develop role players, at least makes a ton of sense why they've been patient. They don't want a situation where you can't build around prime Bam like what happened with Wade post Shaq it's the same ****.

I'm not nearly as high on Herro as some of you are on here, I've seen players score a bunch because they're given the shots to do it, it doesn't mean it was the best thing for the team. Also, Herro has went down a few times now and in those times the Heat seemed to do better... weird isn't it or maybe he disrupts the offense too much which would be fine if he were a dominate scorer which he isn't. His calculated ORTG is 107, it's actually 2 lower than last year with of course the ORTG average being 114, the names higher then Herro in ORTG... Highsmith, Jaquez Jr, Love, Smith, Bam, Lowry, Butler and Robinson at #1.

The draft is hit and miss, I believe you were down to trying to make Winslow (who you could have traded his pick for a lot of 1sts) into a PG when Butler showed up, Richardson was being pushed as a scorer. They hit on Bam, they somewhat hit with Herro although they thought they had the next D.Booker which doesn't seem to be the case), may have hit with Jaquez Jr but they did miss at 20 with Precious with Maxey on the board and a lot of people wanted Maxey on this board which is worse than just missing on Maxey, Spoelstra had ZERO thoughts of ever starting Precious, he refused to play him with Bam at basically any point.

IMO they want access to the non tax payer MLE next offseason and want to maintain the ability to land a potential MVP-caliber player in 2026. You can't do that if we go all in on Jimmy. We're going to get him his championship, but he might not be the guy that leads the team there.

I'd expect the potential MVP player in 2026 won't be happening, Bam will be into year 1 of his 3rd contract which may be a supermax which more than likely will be extended in the 2025 offseason, Herro will be making 33 million and expecting a max contract the following year, with the new CBA it's going to be damn hard to justify 3 near max player (let alone have the resources to acquire one) with one of them being a supermax guy without going into the tax which this owner doesn't seem to like to do. Maybe Bam can recruit a friend which he is liked but I'm not expecting him to recruit a better then Bam player to Miami, Mitchell is probably the only shot and that happens before the 2025 offseason.

[AirP.]

My opinion on the post on jokic...spo is a very good coach and sometimes even a genius... BUT BEING REAL... There are very little possibilities that a player with The characteristics jokic has, Makes this team more than Four years in a row... spo Like his Players to Have totally opposite characteristics Even though his personality is spot on what eric likes

different strokes for different folks

The closest has been McRoberts, and we all agree, I think,
Even he had more athleticism Than the joker

Michael Malone held back Jokic for an entire rookie season and the part of his sophomore season until the owner of Denver Nuggets interfered and suggested to their GM to "advise" Malone to start Jokic, the rest is the history.

That Jokic draft Denver had traded down from #11 to get #16 and #19 to draft Nurkic at C and G.Harris at SG. Most of the time you're going to try to get that 1st round center to work(and he showed promise) before pushing a 2nd rounder, it would be up to the owner to say we're ready to push forward with the 2nd round player Jokic over the guy we took in the first round who was Nurkic. It was a great call by the owner, the owner basically has to swallow his pride to say their organization screwed up drafting the wrong guy in the 1st round (which had kept Jokic on a rookie contract for 4 years).

[Beenie]

Trade Niko and Martin for Caruso.

Butler’s timeline is the agenda.

Waiting years to develop a player whose natural skillset is like a square peg to the this system’s round hole is futile.

I argue that we've moved on from Butler's to Bam agenda. It's not logical to build around the Butler timeline at the cost of flexibility in 2026.

It is when the team is 3 games away from a chip

[3ammy3uck3ts]

That’s thing though, we’ve been 2 games away, 3 games and 5 games in 3 out of the last 4 seasons and the front office refuses to do anything else.

[dolphinatik]

Norris Cole on Gils Arena, good insight as to how Spo works and why Jovic doesnt get minutes. Basically he said Spo doesnt adjsut by design in the season because he is experimenting even if its not working he is going to stay with it then come playoff time he might adjust. Some players cant hang because they will want to play by instinct and adjust for what they know is the "right play" but if you dont follow Spo's directive even if its wrong, you might get yanked.

[marson]

The Warriors looking done and I feel like Steph could be available next season if the Warriors decide to fully rebuild and send Steph to his preferred destination.

Is he worth sending the haul?

[Daffy]

The Warriors looking done and I feel like Steph could be available next season if the Warriors decide to fully rebuild and send Steph to his preferred destination.

Is he worth sending the haul?

Steph said he's staying in GS. Said the only other team he'd ever consider playing for would be Charlotte his home.

[VaDe255]

It's nothing against Jimmy. It's just about extending his career beyond his current contract. His lack of 3p development is just doesn't track well imo. Jimmy was close both times but go derailed due to injuries we definitely would have had a closer series but luck is part of the draw there.

Beyond his current contract, he's got 2 more years, at the end of that contract he'll have been in Miami 7 years with quite possibly no big acquisitions and Bam will be 29 that year after Butler's last contract... basically in the same position as Butler was when he got to Miami.

People love potential because fandom is a long and challenging game, and it doesn't have to be this dramatic part of your existence that requires you to be negative all the time. Getting excited about players you like isn't a sin. You're acting like we're living in squalor, talking about how bad it's been for a while. But looking back since Pat Riley came on board, you wouldn't trade this team for 9x% of the other organizations out there. They've created three different runs to the championship, with two resulting in banners.

It's fine to love potential but what is happening in Miami is basically develop a player till they hit 24-26, get a few good years from them, now trade for the next shiny thing, that makes very little sense and doesn't give a team a big enough window to really build a team.

Miami has had 3 different runs all because of Wade, Wade is the reason Butler went to Miami, he was sold within 5 minutes of the meeting.

Up until near the end of the big 3 Riley and this organization was great, something happened in the mid 2010s with the FO's mindset, probably age which can change a person, maybe LeBron just turning his back on Riley and for whatever reason this organization has played it pretty safe although Riley does trades that way, always offer less and you never lose a trade.

In terms of 2/3. Bam and Tyler's significant progress this off-season and the continued factual evidence of their ability to grind, along with the organization's ability to develop role players, at least makes a ton of sense why they've been patient. They don't want a situation where you can't build around prime Bam like what happened with Wade post Shaq it's the same ****.

I'm not nearly as high on Herro as some of you are on here, I've seen players score a bunch because they're given the shots to do it, it doesn't mean it was the best thing for the team. Also, Herro has went down a few times now and in those times the Heat seemed to do better... weird isn't it or maybe he disrupts the offense too much which would be fine if he were a dominate scorer which he isn't. His calculated ORTG is 107, it's actually 2 lower than last year with of course the ORTG average being 114, the names higher then Herro in ORTG... Highsmith, Jaquez Jr, Love, Smith, Bam, Lowry, Butler and Robinson at #1.

The draft is hit and miss, I believe you were down to trying to make Winslow (who you could have traded his pick for a lot of 1sts) into a PG when Butler showed up, Richardson was being pushed as a scorer. They hit on Bam, they somewhat hit with Herro although they thought they had the next D.Booker which doesn't seem to be the case), may have hit with Jaquez Jr but they did miss at 20 with Precious with Maxey on the board and a lot of people wanted Maxey on this board which is worse than just missing on Maxey, Spoelstra had ZERO thoughts of ever starting Precious, he refused to play him with Bam at basically any point.

IMO they want access to the non tax payer MLE next offseason and want to maintain the ability to land a potential MVP-caliber player in 2026. You can't do that if we go all in on Jimmy. We're going to get him his championship, but he might not be the guy that leads the team there.

I'd expect the potential MVP player in 2026 won't be happening, Bam will be into year 1 of his 3rd contract which may be a supermax which more than likely will be extended in the 2025 offseason, Herro will be making 33 million and expecting a max contract the following year, with the new CBA it's going to be damn hard to justify 3 near max player (let alone have the resources to acquire one) with one of them being a supermax guy without going into the tax which this owner doesn't seem to like to do. Maybe Bam can recruit a friend which he is liked but I'm not expecting him to recruit a better then Bam player to Miami, Mitchell is probably the only shot and that happens before the 2025 offseason.

Tyler Herro's trajectory seems pretty much parallel to players like Booker, Mitchell and Fox. It's important to remember that not all elite scorers and positively-rated players emerge fully-formed; development takes time. Fox, for instance, only made his significant leap last year. Herro has around three more years before any serious concerns about his progress should be raised. Every player has their strengths and weaknesses. While Herro's game at the rim might be lacking, his high-volume, elite three-point shooting is incredibly valuable.

The Heat's front office moves, though sometimes subtle, have significantly contributed to their success. Their strategy focuses on internal growth, player development, and maintaining a consistent roster. This approach has yielded impressive results, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out this season. The current roster looks very deep and capable. Moreover, they still hold assets for potential trades if an opportunity arises to acquire a player who could give them a substantial edge.

The Celtics are scary. However, in a seven-game series scenario, I'd favor the Heat over any other team in the East.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Go-too players the Heat have targeted to pair with Bam and Butler.

Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
Kyle Lowry
Damien Lillard

Any other go-too players the Heat targeted?

I told you all that the Lowry, Oladipo/Herro, Butler, Tucker and Adebayo team was it.

I get this, Lowry isn't going to be traded, been saying this since the offseason, they're getting under the tax next year with Bam age 27 next year will probably be the same but less with Lowry gone, Butler may start declining noticeably in 2-3 years and then you're looking at building around Bam at age 28-29? Butler was 30 when he got to Miami, had a young star in Bam already on the roster and really nothing else was brought in.

On the 2 they got, Oladipo was damaged good that there was hope he could get back to a high level after basically missing multiple years of high level play. Lowry was done, he was on the backend of his career but who else was out there since the 2021 plan blew up when Giannis sighed his supermax at the end of the offseason in 2020.

It's starting to look like a treadmill but at least it's a winning treadmill with a very good coach, it's a lot better than most franchises have and Jaquez Jr looks like he could become a very good player.

I agree that the only way Lowry gets dealt is if the players coming back are also expiring. I don't think we unload assets for one year rentals rather then just let Lowry play out his contract year and especially since he's still giving us production. Not great but good enough to make the organization balk at giving up Lowry and picks for let's say Dinwiddie and filler.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Niko Jovic for Bones Hyland could be a nice little trade for both teams.

[marson]

Damn. Coach Spo just got divorced.

[Bishop45]

Damn, good for Spo though. Most relationships don't last forever and prioritizing an ideal relationship over your happiness is never the way to go. I trust that he'll be an adept co-parent

[AirP.]

Damn. Coach Spo just got divorced.

Read on Twitter

[Kobewade11]

Stay up Spo

[marson]

Divorce in the USA is broke AF. The guy always loses ton of bag.

[eddieheatfan]

nevermind saw the twitter above. yeah now she is going to be set for life

what are the chances that he got cucked?

either way, the kids are the ones who feel the divorce most

[AirP.]

nevermind saw the twitter above. yeah now she is going to be set for life

what are the chances that he got cucked?

either way, the kids are the ones who feel the divorce most

The first thing that I think of in these situations is that one person who isn't making most of the money thinks they have enough and would rather have the spouse at home more often rather than on the road/working, basically retire and just enjoy life but normally the one making money isn't built that way, they have a drive and won't be happy slowing down.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Damn. Coach Spo just got divorced.

He's married to the culture.