2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[batterybro42]

Miami has been fishing to get MAX players in free agency for the past decade. That avenue is effectively dead given that anyone who makes All-NBA is financially disincentivized from leaving their team. It sucks bc Miami is made for free agency and has benefited greatly from it. In the absence of it, Miami is fishing for the next tier of disgruntled star to either come in free agency (how Miami got Jimmy via S&T) or trade for a player under contract that wants out. As we've seen with the likes of Dame and Durant, that costs A LOT of draft capital.

I don't see banking on finding TWO disgruntled stars that are worth it as upgrades over Bam and either (1) are about to enter free agency and not incentivized to stay with their current team since they didn't get supermax eligible or (2) just demand out and are on multi-year contracts and thus worth a sh*t ton of draft capital as an excitingly viable way forward in the modern NBA structure.

The odds of threading the needle to bring in 2 top 20 players via free agency or expensive trade in the modern NBA landscape within a 3-year window seems EXTREMELY low. It's hard enough to get one.

I get it if you just want to tank and go for a 5+ year rebuild. But, that's not my preference.

Miami hasn’t had the flexibility or space to acquire a max player, and they haven’t had the assets to really trade for one either. You open up two slots with a solid young core, Herro, and a war chest of draft capital, players will collude to get here. Just like Dame tried to do and KD before that, exactly like Butler did. Players want to play in Miami, I’d argue it’s easier for them to do so now than it has ever been, we just need to open the doors for once.

Right Miami is gearing up to have that flexibility. They're right there. Add the draft capital from a Bam trade and Miami probably has enough to net 1 big 5+ FRP fish. Unfortunately, the pool of offerings is mostly limited to those that aren't All-NBA bc of the damn supermax. Now we need to find 2 of those and get them both for the price of one?

You think the next KD is coming to a Miami with a promising rookie and Tyler Herro? You think destination is all to that extent? We see that quite differently.

Fox is mentioned a lot on here because he is entering the last year of his deal and shouldn't be supermax eligible. Unique possibility. Bolstered quite a bit by the fact that Bam and Fox have a brotherly bond. You think he's leaving a SAC situation that is trending better to come to a full blown youth movement?

Aside from Fox, who hopefully will be less than 3 FRPs and 1 young player in price, who else is trending to be available? Enlighten me as to how Miami is trending to get 2 Fox situations in the near future with the ~5FRPs that could potentially be available with dishing out Bam. You have my attention.

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

[MettaWorldPanda]

I’m curious to see what happens with Jovic if we get Portis

More likely Portis ends up in Detroit to alleviate the salary needed for the Bucks. Chris Boucher or Kelly Olynyk are more likely to be the bigs landing here. Boucher has the 10 million expiring. KO has the same matching contract as Portis that ends in 2026.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Problem is those three Suns picks are mostly garbage.

I’m old enough to remember when the media said that future Heat picks lack value because the team is always decent in the standings. Why should these picks the Suns acquired be viewed any differently?

Maybe they help with Stepien rule stuff is all I can think of.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Problem is those three Suns picks are mostly garbage.

In the gist of it all it’s still a first. These are really just transactional tools for taking on contracts and opening up more flexibility

[greg4012]

Miami hasn’t had the flexibility or space to acquire a max player, and they haven’t had the assets to really trade for one either. You open up two slots with a solid young core, Herro, and a war chest of draft capital, players will collude to get here. Just like Dame tried to do and KD before that, exactly like Butler did. Players want to play in Miami, I’d argue it’s easier for them to do so now than it has ever been, we just need to open the doors for once.

Right Miami is gearing up to have that flexibility. They're right there. Add the draft capital from a Bam trade and Miami probably has enough to net 1 big 5+ FRP fish. Unfortunately, the pool of offerings is mostly limited to those that aren't All-NBA bc of the damn supermax. Now we need to find 2 of those and get them both for the price of one?

You think the next KD is coming to a Miami with a promising rookie and Tyler Herro? You think destination is all to that extent? We see that quite differently.

Fox is mentioned a lot on here because he is entering the last year of his deal and shouldn't be supermax eligible. Unique possibility. Bolstered quite a bit by the fact that Bam and Fox have a brotherly bond. You think he's leaving a SAC situation that is trending better to come to a full blown youth movement?

Aside from Fox, who hopefully will be less than 3 FRPs and 1 young player in price, who else is trending to be available? Enlighten me as to how Miami is trending to get 2 Fox situations in the near future with the ~5FRPs that could potentially be available with dishing out Bam. You have my attention.

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

[batterybro42]

Less Bam bickering; more BUTTWART/WARTBURG discourse.

Thank you.

Becoming a bit toxic honestly.

Just simple debate (from one side at least) is that not what sports forums are for? Cheer for you team, debate topics, discuss trade possibilities, etc.

Hasn’t been a debate it’s been you and Greg throwing a hissy fit because some people don’t think Bam is a top 10 player in the league. Seems deeply and weirdly personal to you both.

[batterybro42]

Right Miami is gearing up to have that flexibility. They're right there. Add the draft capital from a Bam trade and Miami probably has enough to net 1 big 5+ FRP fish. Unfortunately, the pool of offerings is mostly limited to those that aren't All-NBA bc of the damn supermax. Now we need to find 2 of those and get them both for the price of one?

You think the next KD is coming to a Miami with a promising rookie and Tyler Herro? You think destination is all to that extent? We see that quite differently.

Fox is mentioned a lot on here because he is entering the last year of his deal and shouldn't be supermax eligible. Unique possibility. Bolstered quite a bit by the fact that Bam and Fox have a brotherly bond. You think he's leaving a SAC situation that is trending better to come to a full blown youth movement?

Aside from Fox, who hopefully will be less than 3 FRPs and 1 young player in price, who else is trending to be available? Enlighten me as to how Miami is trending to get 2 Fox situations in the near future with the ~5FRPs that could potentially be available with dishing out Bam. You have my attention.

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Becoming a bit toxic honestly.

Just simple debate (from one side at least) is that not what sports forums are for? Cheer for you team, debate topics, discuss trade possibilities, etc.

Hasn’t been a debate it’s been you and Greg throwing a hissy fit because some people don’t think Bam is a top 10 player in the league. Seems deeply and weirdly personal to you both.

If we’re being completely honest it’s been Greg and I destroying you on here because you literally can’t back anything you say with any sort of fact while everything we’ve said has been backed with some sort of info/stat/etc.

And here you go again, no one said he’s a top 10 player at not once has anyone argued that in here during our discussion today. But if you want to place a number on out outside of his struggles this season he’s been a top 25 player in this league for years now and as a word I’ve seen tossed around today, that is “elite”

[3ammy3uck3ts]

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

Trae young?!?! The guy the Hawks were practically trying to give away last year and this summer but no one was interested?! I would’ve taken him, with Bam. He’d be one of the best if not the best at maximizing him considering he’s a great playmaker.

[greg4012]

NBA Champions Frontcourt 3 Pt Shooting by season

2024 - Boston (Tatum + Porzingis) - 20 3PA per 100 possessions (37.5% 3pt)
2023 - Denver (Jokic + Gordon) - 7.2 3PA per 100 possessions (36% 3 pt)
2022 - GSW (Draymond + Looney) - 2 3PA per 100 possessions (29.6% 3 pt)
2021 - Milwaukee (Giannis + Lopez) - 12.1 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3 pt)
2020 - LA Lakers (Davis + McGee) - 5.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33.4% 3 pt)
[if we make it Kuzma + Davis instead to reflect the playoff lineup that got most starts its 13.4 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3pt)]


Bam and Ware current rate - 9.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33% 3pt). Let's develop this.

[jbsays]

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.

Pretty sure everyone would trade Bam for Luka, SGA, or Edwards except the Mavs, Thunder, and TWolves.

[greg4012]

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.

I believe Luka would have to forego supermax extension eligibility beyond 2027 to come to Miami. Same with SGA and Anthony Edwards. You think their lust for Miami is worth over $100M?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Trust me, I would love it. Maybe one guy goes full send, but 2??!

What are the ways around the super max issue aside from waiting at least 1 year after they sign it? Genuinely want to know.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

NBA Champions Frontcourt 3 Pt Shooting by season

2024 - Boston (Tatum + Porzingis) - 20 3PA per 100 possessions (37.5% 3pt)
2023 - Denver (Jokic + Gordon) - 7.2 3PA per 100 possessions (36% 3 pt)
2022 - GSW (Draymond + Looney) - 2 3PA per 100 possessions (29.6% 3 pt)
2021 - Milwaukee (Giannis + Lopez) - 12.1 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3 pt)
2020 - LA Lakers (Davis + McGee) - 5.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33.4% 3 pt)
[if we make it Kuzma + Davis instead to reflect the playoff lineup that got most starts its 13.4 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3pt)]


Bam and Ware current rate - 9.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33% 3pt). Let's develop this.

More facts, nice!

[greg4012]

Becoming a bit toxic honestly.

Just simple debate (from one side at least) is that not what sports forums are for? Cheer for you team, debate topics, discuss trade possibilities, etc.

Hasn’t been a debate it’s been you and Greg throwing a hissy fit because some people don’t think Bam is a top 10 player in the league. Seems deeply and weirdly personal to you both.

Sweet projection. "don't think Bam is a top 10 player in the league" LMAO. That's unanimous. Has anyone even come close to suggestion to the contrary?

Who's gaslighting here?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.

Pretty sure everyone would trade Bam for Luka, SGA, or Edwards except the Mavs, Thunder, and TWolves.

And even better we can add 1 in 2026 and keep Bam and compete for championships. I’m assuming that’s the 2026 plan if we don’t land Fox this summer.

[greg4012]

You acquire a super max player through SNT which you need the assets to be able to pull off. Which is the new “free agency”

I’m not against trading Herro either for the right guy. Bam isn’t some elite tier player who you hold onto when you can potentially upgrade. We’ve made that mistake too many times. I’m a Heat fan not a Bam Stan

What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.

When you dig into the details and mechanisms at play and aim to understand how they shape transactions, you kind of are arguing to trade Bam for the sake of trading him.

If Luka or SGA or Ant are available, let's **** trade him right now. Surprised they want to forego their supermax extension eligibility to come to Miami to play without Bam tho. They each seem like great fits with a Bam-Ware frontcourt.

[Enso]

Did we trade him yet?

[greg4012]

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.

Pretty sure everyone would trade Bam for Luka, SGA, or Edwards except the Mavs, Thunder, and TWolves.

And even better we can add 1 in 2026 and keep Bam and compete for championships. I’m assuming that’s the 2026 plan if we don’t land Fox this summer.

2026 dream moreso than plan lol

But yea prob. I think the Supermax issue is a big one for these pursuits.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Pretty sure everyone would trade Bam for Luka, SGA, or Edwards except the Mavs, Thunder, and TWolves.

And even better we can add 1 in 2026 and keep Bam and compete for championships. I’m assuming that’s the 2026 plan if we don’t land Fox this summer.

2026 dream moreso than plan lol

But yea prob. I think the Supermax issue is a big one for these pursuits.

So when do we hire Dragic lol?

[NightWatch]

No Porto’s, Middletown or Lopez or Beal. Please stop talking about these trash

I will take Zion Williamson though