Miami Heat Regular Season/Speculation Thread 2021 Part 3

[marson]

What's up Heat Nation. It's good to be back on this Forum. Been a Fan since Wade got drafted in 03, then got really invested all of early twenties with the Big 3 era.

I'm not comparing eras but man, the Big 3 era was something else and a blast, I feel like that was my golden years of my basketball fandom. Every freaking road game is a playoff atmosphere lol. Winning 2/4 is a win that we should be proud of. Could have 3/4 though.

For the current team and with all the injuries and COVID issues, I'm pretty sure we can make a deep run in the playoffs. It all depends on Dipo whether he can play again or not. His defense is really solid. The first 2 games with him on the floor reminds me of our tenacious D during 11-13 season.

[carnageta]

32-29. Same record as the Celtics now. We have 2 upcoming games against them which can very well determine who gets the 6th and who gets the 7th seed (they already won 1 against us, meaning we would have to win both games to win the tie breaker).

I fully expect to lose both games, given the year we are having.

[carnageta]

The Hawks without Trae Young just beat a completely healthy Milwaukee Bucks team. I'm starting to think that they are actually legit and perhaps we may have overblown the loss to them (we have been bad this year but it's not like the Hawks are some bum team).

[MettaWorldPanda]

The Hawks without Trae Young just beat a completely healthy Milwaukee Bucks team. I'm starting to think that they are actually legit and perhaps we may have overblown the loss to them (we have been bad this year but it's not like the Hawks are some bum team).

A healthy Bogdan Bogdonovic has been a huge difference maker for them.

[eddieheatfan]

32-29. Same record as the Celtics now. We have 2 upcoming games against them which can very well determine who gets the 6th and who gets the 7th seed (they already won 1 against us, meaning we would have to win both games to win the tie breaker).

I fully expect to lose both games, given the year we are having.

nobody really expected that this season would have had played out like this. i'm even surprised even though i often score low for the heat each season

[twix2500]

Hawks have a lot of talent. Its the coaching and system. They relied too much on Young. Its the same out in Dallas. Too much Rockets James Harden type of offense.

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[AirP.]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

[3ballbomber]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

Interesting. I assume these stats are for this season. As a sophomore i think Herro is still finding his way. He went from starting to bench, which can always do your head in. Since we made no significant acquisitions we made it known we relied vry heavily on our young players to fast track their development. with such a short offseason it can be somewhat difficult. This can place some pressure. I'm interested to see how he develops in the next couple of seasons beyond this one. I do see him rising from this slump soon...

[twix2500]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

The numbers you are looking at are indication who the players fit better with not about who is individually bad.

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[AirP.]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

The numbers you are looking at are indication who the players fit better with not about who is individually bad.

It indicates that he's a negative on the court with nearly everyone on his team, so he doesn't fit on this team? His ORTG is 11 points below league average and he's seen as a "scorer" and even his TS% is bad, it's actually worse then Harkless' was with the Heat. Think about that some, worse offensive efficiency then Harkless that nobody wanted on the court.

And yes, I think he's bad at this point. He's skilled for his age, has a nice shot yet makes his team worse on the court, a team that begs for offense.

His on/off for Miami this year is -7.9
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2021/on-off/

[HIF]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

The numbers you are looking at are indication who the players fit better with not about who is individually bad.

It indicates that he's a negative on the court with nearly everyone on his team, so he doesn't fit on this team? His ORTG is 11 points below league average and he's seen as a "scorer" and even his TS% is bad, it's actually worse then Harkless' was with the Heat. Think about that some, worse offensive efficiency then Harkless that nobody wanted on the court.

And yes, I think he's bad at this point. He's skilled for his age, has a nice shot yet makes his team worse on the court, a team that begs for offense.

His on/off for Miami this year is -7.9
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2021/on-off/

It indicates he's a sophomore with little to no off season/pre season.

Stop putting the guy down. He's a heat.

[contract]

This team sucks donkey balls.

[contract]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

I wonder what this team would look like if our shooters could shoot straight.

[contract]

FYI the best "shooter" we have under contract for next season is Tyler Herro.

[Wiltside]

Can we cut Vincent and sign Isaiah Thomas already? You can’t tell me Gabe is better than this dude.

[Hallstar]

Decided to look at some combos since I said Dragic and Herro is one of the worst bench backcourts in the league. I lean heavy towards Herro still being the issue, not so much Dragic.

BBRef only shows the top 10 players in the combos, so some may be missing.

Dragic and Herro are -11.7 per 100 possessions but who's the issue?

Looking at Dragic's 2 man combos, he is only negative with Herro, KZ and Precious, everyone else is a positive with him.
Herro's 2 man combos, he is only positive with Butler and Olynyk, everyone else he is -2.4 per 100 possessions or worse.

Looking at Miami's 2 best players.
Butler is +2.4 or higher with everyone but 2 negatives, KZ and Iggy.
Bam is negative with only 3 players, Vincent, Herro, and Strus.

2 of the newer players...
Ariza is positive with everyone but Precious, Vincent and Herro.
Dedmon, a monster with most +16.3 per 100 with everyone but 2 players who he's negative with... Herro and Strus.

I thought Herro was an issue, didn't expect it to be this bad.
Dedmon isn't "great" but he fills in a need for Miami, a big who knows his role and with that is excelling on this small ball team. Makes me wonder what an average big man who played as a big could do for Miami.

Or he's the player asked to do a different thing on offense every game. Herro's game has to turn on or off depending on which version of Bam and Butler show up for the night.

[twix2500]

After watching last night game and all the games the past month. The talent on this team is not bad. Its pretty good. The problem that I see is the combination of talent is not good. The identity of this year team has not been solidified. Last year, the identity of the Heat was as an offensive team based off of 3 pointers. If the Heat were going to beat you, they were going to do it by outscoring you.

This current team has not found that identity that fits their talent. And when I say this current team, I mean this current roster since the trade deadline. I think Spo has a plan to make this team a defensive identity first team. That may have worked if the Heat had a defensive point guard playing 25 plus minutes, specifically a starter. But that seems to be a tough task when Oladipo (that defensive point guard) is getting zero minutes.

Current Roster

PG: Oladipo (defensive)
SG: Butler (defensive)
SF: Robinson (offensive)
PF: Ariza (defensive)
Ce: Adebayo (defensive)

PG: Nunn (offensive)
SG: Butler (defensive)
SF: Robinson (offensive)
PF: Ariza (defensive)
Ce: Adebayo (defensive)

Last year

PG: Nunn (offensive)
SG: Butler (defensive)
SF: Robinson (offensive)
PF: Olynyk/Leonard (offensive)
Ce: Adebayo (defensive)

PG: Dragic (offensive)
SG: Butler (defensive)
SF: Robinson (offensive)
PF: Crowder (defensive)
Ce: Adebayo (defensive)

So what should be this teams identity? Should it go back to being a offensive minded or keep tinkering to make this team defensive minded first?

[twix2500]

Can Kendrick Nunn develop into a peak Goran Dragic level of player?

[MettaWorldPanda]

This roster needs an overhaul next year. No band aid fixes. Do everything to get Beal. Load up with bigs that can play with Bam and get rid of the ones currently on roster that can’t. Resign Dipo on the cheap if possible if he passes our medical. Resign Duncan and Nunn to fair deals. Resign Ariza to come off bench as SF/PF. Explore trading Herro,Achuiwa, Okpala, future picks with attached contracts of team options of Iguodala and Dragic for any star player that’s available.

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

The numbers you are looking at are indication who the players fit better with not about who is individually bad.

It indicates that he's a negative on the court with nearly everyone on his team, so he doesn't fit on this team? His ORTG is 11 points below league average and he's seen as a "scorer" and even his TS% is bad, it's actually worse then Harkless' was with the Heat. Think about that some, worse offensive efficiency then Harkless that nobody wanted on the court.

And yes, I think he's bad at this point. He's skilled for his age, has a nice shot yet makes his team worse on the court, a team that begs for offense.

His on/off for Miami this year is -7.9
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2021/on-off/

It indicates he's a sophomore with little to no off season/pre season.

Stop putting the guy down. He's a heat.

I should change my opinion on him because he's with Miami? Sorry, I don't go down that homerism route anymore.