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2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#621 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 6:47 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
insfo wrote:
Becoming a bit toxic honestly.


Just simple debate (from one side at least) is that not what sports forums are for? Cheer for you team, debate topics, discuss trade possibilities, etc.


Hasn’t been a debate it’s been you and Greg throwing a hissy fit because some people don’t think Bam is a top 10 player in the league. Seems deeply and weirdly personal to you both.


I take the truth personally. And I'm a Heat fan.

I'd proffer that the one consistently lying and fabricating reality to besmirch one of the Heat's main players is the one displaying deeply personal feelings.

I'm all for criticizing the whole squad. Bam's slump is a mess right now. But let's stick to reality--it's weird enough as is.
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#622 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 25, 2025 6:55 pm

Read on Twitter


After Erny and Bernie (lol) come out publicly this morning and say this is false, father beater Ethan chimes in to backpack on it as well. I can’t believe people take this dude serious
#FreeBam
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#623 » by batterybro42 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:02 pm

greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Just simple debate (from one side at least) is that not what sports forums are for? Cheer for you team, debate topics, discuss trade possibilities, etc.


Hasn’t been a debate it’s been you and Greg throwing a hissy fit because some people don’t think Bam is a top 10 player in the league. Seems deeply and weirdly personal to you both.


I take the truth personally. And I'm a Heat fan.

I'd proffer that the one consistently lying and fabricating reality to besmirch one of the Heat's main players is the one displaying deeply personal feelings.

I'm all for criticizing the whole squad. Bam's slump is a mess right now. But let's stick to reality--it's weird enough as is.


Opinions you disagree with aren’t lies
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#624 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:05 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
Hasn’t been a debate it’s been you and Greg throwing a hissy fit because some people don’t think Bam is a top 10 player in the league. Seems deeply and weirdly personal to you both.


I take the truth personally. And I'm a Heat fan.

I'd proffer that the one consistently lying and fabricating reality to besmirch one of the Heat's main players is the one displaying deeply personal feelings.

I'm all for criticizing the whole squad. Bam's slump is a mess right now. But let's stick to reality--it's weird enough as is.


Opinions you disagree with aren’t lies


Miami paying Bam $60M per--lie

Having Bam take up 1/3 of the salary cap--lie (and framing it in the way to make it look as bad and scary as possible)

Bam has spent every offseason prioritizing the 3 ball as an offensive focus--lie

Miami can just work around supermax hurdles and add guys in the near future--lie

There's a lot more, but I'm not the only one thats gonna be doing work here. Just go back through our exchanges. Its laid out diligently with source references to counter.
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#625 » by batterybro42 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:13 pm

greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
What players?

The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?

Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?



Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.


I believe Luka would have to forego supermax extension eligibility beyond 2027 to come to Miami. Same with SGA and Anthony Edwards. You think their lust for Miami is worth over $100M?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Trust me, I would love it. Maybe one guy goes full send, but 2??!

What are the ways around the super max issue aside from waiting at least 1 year after they sign it? Genuinely want to know.


Before signing the contract extension they can be traded and sign the super max extension with the new team, which is allowable in the CBA. All it takes is for one of those guys to say they aren’t going to sign an extension and demand a trade. Having a good player like Bam or Herro to soften the blow helps.

I look specifically at Luka he is the most likely in my opinion to want out. I also think there is a decent chance Anthony Edwards gets himself out of Minnesota sooner than later.

You aren’t winning a ring in this NBA without a true alpha, and we don’t have one. Nothing really matters unless we can get that dude, so in my opinion it’s whatever it takes. Because there isn’t a player on this roster capable of that type of ascension. We have a bunch of Robins and a unicorn
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#626 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:19 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.


I believe Luka would have to forego supermax extension eligibility beyond 2027 to come to Miami. Same with SGA and Anthony Edwards. You think their lust for Miami is worth over $100M?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Trust me, I would love it. Maybe one guy goes full send, but 2??!

What are the ways around the super max issue aside from waiting at least 1 year after they sign it? Genuinely want to know.


Before signing the contract extension they can be traded and sign the super max extension with the new team, which is allowable in the CBA. All it takes is for one of those guys to say they aren’t going to sign an extension and demand a trade. Having a good player like Bam or Herro to soften the blow helps.

I look specifically at Luka he is the most likely in my opinion to want out. I also think there is a decent chance Anthony Edwards gets himself out of Minnesota sooner than later.

You aren’t winning a ring in this NBA without a true alpha, and we don’t have one. Nothing really matters unless we can get that dude, so in my opinion it’s whatever it takes. Because there isn’t a player on this roster capable of that type of ascension. We have a bunch of Robins and a unicorn


I dont believe that's correct. I will rescind my claim you lied, you just championed it without knowing better. Hopefully learning informs dialogue and expectation.

Someone please verify if the below is incorrect

In order to qualify for a "supermax contract", players must have seven or eight years of service in the league and still be with their original teams, unless they were traded (James Harden) or acquired by assignment via amnesty waiver. If players fit all of these criteria, they qualify for a "supermax" extension.


https://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/supermax-contract/#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20qualify%20for,by%20assignment%20via%20amnesty%20waiver.&text=If%20players%20fit%20all%20of,for%20a%20%22supermax%22%20extension.
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#627 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:20 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:

Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought

You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.


I believe Luka would have to forego supermax extension eligibility beyond 2027 to come to Miami. Same with SGA and Anthony Edwards. You think their lust for Miami is worth over $100M?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Trust me, I would love it. Maybe one guy goes full send, but 2??!

What are the ways around the super max issue aside from waiting at least 1 year after they sign it? Genuinely want to know.


Before signing the contract extension they can be traded and sign the super max extension with the new team, which is allowable in the CBA. All it takes is for one of those guys to say they aren’t going to sign an extension and demand a trade. Having a good player like Bam or Herro to soften the blow helps.

I look specifically at Luka he is the most likely in my opinion to want out. I also think there is a decent chance Anthony Edwards gets himself out of Minnesota sooner than later.

You aren’t winning a ring in this NBA without a true alpha, and we don’t have one. Nothing really matters unless we can get that dude, so in my opinion it’s whatever it takes. Because there isn’t a player on this roster capable of that type of ascension. We have a bunch of Robins and a unicorn


Truth and reality still matter
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#628 » by batterybro42 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:26 pm

greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
I take the truth personally. And I'm a Heat fan.

I'd proffer that the one consistently lying and fabricating reality to besmirch one of the Heat's main players is the one displaying deeply personal feelings.

I'm all for criticizing the whole squad. Bam's slump is a mess right now. But let's stick to reality--it's weird enough as is.


Opinions you disagree with aren’t lies


Miami paying Bam $60M per--lie

Having Bam take up 1/3 of the salary cap--lie (and framing it in the way to make it look as bad and scary as possible)

Bam has spent every offseason prioritizing the 3 ball as an offensive focus--lie

Miami can just work around supermax hurdles and add guys in the near future--lie

There's a lot more, but I'm not the only one thats gonna be doing work here. Just go back through our exchanges. Its laid out diligently with source references to counter.



Hope Spo goes out there and lets Angel Reese chuck up 15 3s tonight at 6

And yes Bam is set to start making a 1/3rd of the cap and I’m sorry he’s only making 59 million in 3 years as opposed to 60 that’s my mistake.

The guy is legitimately getting paid 51 million in 2026 which is about 30% of the cap. The point remaining that you move him if you can get a better player which is possible
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#629 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:34 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
Opinions you disagree with aren’t lies


Miami paying Bam $60M per--lie

Having Bam take up 1/3 of the salary cap--lie (and framing it in the way to make it look as bad and scary as possible)

Bam has spent every offseason prioritizing the 3 ball as an offensive focus--lie

Miami can just work around supermax hurdles and add guys in the near future--lie

There's a lot more, but I'm not the only one thats gonna be doing work here. Just go back through our exchanges. Its laid out diligently with source references to counter.



Hope Spo goes out there and lets Angel Reese chuck up 15 3s tonight at 6

And yes Bam is set to start making a 1/3rd of the cap and I’m sorry he’s only making 59 million in 3 years as opposed to 60 that’s my mistake.

The guy is legitimately getting paid 51 million next year which is 33% of the 154 million dollar agreed upon cap figure.


Read on Twitter


He makes $37M next year, also do yourself a favor and read this tweet. The season he makes $59M he’ll be making 28.7% of the cap.
#FreeBam
#Klutch
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#630 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:37 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
Opinions you disagree with aren’t lies


Miami paying Bam $60M per--lie

Having Bam take up 1/3 of the salary cap--lie (and framing it in the way to make it look as bad and scary as possible)

Bam has spent every offseason prioritizing the 3 ball as an offensive focus--lie

Miami can just work around supermax hurdles and add guys in the near future--lie

There's a lot more, but I'm not the only one thats gonna be doing work here. Just go back through our exchanges. Its laid out diligently with source references to counter.



Hope Spo goes out there and lets Angel Reese chuck up 15 3s tonight at 6

And yes Bam is set to start making a 1/3rd of the cap and I’m sorry he’s only making 59 million in 3 years as opposed to 60 that’s my mistake.

The guy is legitimately getting paid 51 million next year which is 33% of the 154 million dollar agreed upon cap figure.


You truly can't help but lie can you? Hyperbole, deflection and distraction (mixed with blatant fabrication of reality). THis is bad, guy.

The 2025-2026 NBA salary cap is projected to be $155.6M. Bam will be making $37M. You want me to do that math?

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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#631 » by wade44 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:38 pm

So where’s the Jimmy news
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#632 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:39 pm

greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
I believe Luka would have to forego supermax extension eligibility beyond 2027 to come to Miami. Same with SGA and Anthony Edwards. You think their lust for Miami is worth over $100M?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Trust me, I would love it. Maybe one guy goes full send, but 2??!

What are the ways around the super max issue aside from waiting at least 1 year after they sign it? Genuinely want to know.


Before signing the contract extension they can be traded and sign the super max extension with the new team, which is allowable in the CBA. All it takes is for one of those guys to say they aren’t going to sign an extension and demand a trade. Having a good player like Bam or Herro to soften the blow helps.

I look specifically at Luka he is the most likely in my opinion to want out. I also think there is a decent chance Anthony Edwards gets himself out of Minnesota sooner than later.

You aren’t winning a ring in this NBA without a true alpha, and we don’t have one. Nothing really matters unless we can get that dude, so in my opinion it’s whatever it takes. Because there isn’t a player on this roster capable of that type of ascension. We have a bunch of Robins and a unicorn


I dont believe that's correct. I will rescind my claim you lied, you just championed it without knowing better. Hopefully learning informs dialogue and expectation.

Someone please verify if the below is incorrect

In order to qualify for a "supermax contract", players must have seven or eight years of service in the league and still be with their original teams, unless they were traded (James Harden) or acquired by assignment via amnesty waiver. If players fit all of these criteria, they qualify for a "supermax" extension.


https://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/supermax-contract/#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20qualify%20for,by%20assignment%20via%20amnesty%20waiver.&text=If%20players%20fit%20all%20of,for%20a%20%22supermax%22%20extension.


Please advise.
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#633 » by batterybro42 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:54 pm

greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
Miami paying Bam $60M per--lie

Having Bam take up 1/3 of the salary cap--lie (and framing it in the way to make it look as bad and scary as possible)

Bam has spent every offseason prioritizing the 3 ball as an offensive focus--lie

Miami can just work around supermax hurdles and add guys in the near future--lie

There's a lot more, but I'm not the only one thats gonna be doing work here. Just go back through our exchanges. Its laid out diligently with source references to counter.



Hope Spo goes out there and lets Angel Reese chuck up 15 3s tonight at 6

And yes Bam is set to start making a 1/3rd of the cap and I’m sorry he’s only making 59 million in 3 years as opposed to 60 that’s my mistake.

The guy is legitimately getting paid 51 million next year which is 33% of the 154 million dollar agreed upon cap figure.


You truly can't help but lie can you? Hyperbole, deflection and distraction (mixed with blatant fabrication of reality). THis is bad, guy.

The 2025-2026 NBA salary cap is projected to be $155.6M. Bam will be making $37M. You want me to do that math?

Image

Image


Maybe with the 3% of the cap you are arguing with me over we can go out and hire a shooting coach for Bam

Since he’s never worked on shooting in his 8 year NBA career allegedly
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#634 » by ZoStrong » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:55 pm

greg4012 wrote:NBA Champions Frontcourt 3 Pt Shooting by season

2024 - Boston (Tatum + Porzingis) - 20 3PA per 100 possessions (37.5% 3pt)
2023 - Denver (Jokic + Gordon) - 7.2 3PA per 100 possessions (36% 3 pt)
2022 - GSW (Draymond + Looney) - 2 3PA per 100 possessions (29.6% 3 pt)
2021 - Milwaukee (Giannis + Lopez) - 12.1 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3 pt)
2020 - LA Lakers (Davis + McGee) - 5.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33.4% 3 pt)
[if we make it Kuzma + Davis instead to reflect the playoff lineup that got most starts its 13.4 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3pt)]


Bam and Ware current rate - 9.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33% 3pt). Let's develop this.



I don't think you can simply put those numbers n expect Bam and Ware to develop into a good 3 pt shooting frontcourt tandem for a contending team. It's case by case really.

Among the contenders up there, Porzingis n Lopez are very good outside shooters but mostly stay beyond 3 pt line. And Gordon isn't a big. And all are supporting players, not max contract stars. Do we want that for Ware who could demand a max when the time comes? Do we want him to stand around the 3 pt line when Bam can't do what Tatum, Jokic, Giannis, AD do, which is be a dynamic offensive player? Or do we pay Bam max to stand outside while let Ware be the dynamic offensive player when it's not encouraging that he can develop a dependable 3 like Lopez or Porzingis?
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#635 » by ZoStrong » Sat Jan 25, 2025 7:59 pm

And I'm not advocating trading Bam unless we can get a better talent. It's just him regressing this year what was supposed to be a great year at 27 is discouraging
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#636 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:06 pm

batterybro42 wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
batterybro42 wrote:

Hope Spo goes out there and lets Angel Reese chuck up 15 3s tonight at 6

And yes Bam is set to start making a 1/3rd of the cap and I’m sorry he’s only making 59 million in 3 years as opposed to 60 that’s my mistake.

The guy is legitimately getting paid 51 million next year which is 33% of the 154 million dollar agreed upon cap figure.


You truly can't help but lie can you? Hyperbole, deflection and distraction (mixed with blatant fabrication of reality). THis is bad, guy.

The 2025-2026 NBA salary cap is projected to be $155.6M. Bam will be making $37M. You want me to do that math?

Image

Image


Maybe with the 3% of the cap you are arguing with me over we can go out and hire a shooting coach for Bam

Since he’s never worked on shooting in his 8 year NBA career allegedly


Always twisting stuff into nonsense no one has ever posited. Must be an exhausting way too live. But, I assume its a coping mechanism
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#637 » by dshearn » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:08 pm

What is pushing all this Bam stuff?

Are posters concerned he is not going to age well?

I still see Bam as a large part of what the Heat do right, and by far the best recruiter we have on the team. Dude might not be as productive per dollar as other players....but unless you can swap Bam out for one of those high per dollar producers...does it really even matter?

The best shot at a "big 3" type roster still kinda rests on Bam talking one of his buddies to come here.... Yeah Bam is in a slump, hell half the team is probably suffering with this Jimmy Situation, but this really does not seem like a good time to overreact.
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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#638 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:20 pm

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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#639 » by MettaWorldPanda » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:21 pm

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Re: 2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA 

Post#640 » by greg4012 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:23 pm

ZoStrong wrote:
greg4012 wrote:NBA Champions Frontcourt 3 Pt Shooting by season

2024 - Boston (Tatum + Porzingis) - 20 3PA per 100 possessions (37.5% 3pt)
2023 - Denver (Jokic + Gordon) - 7.2 3PA per 100 possessions (36% 3 pt)
2022 - GSW (Draymond + Looney) - 2 3PA per 100 possessions (29.6% 3 pt)
2021 - Milwaukee (Giannis + Lopez) - 12.1 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3 pt)
2020 - LA Lakers (Davis + McGee) - 5.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33.4% 3 pt)
[if we make it Kuzma + Davis instead to reflect the playoff lineup that got most starts its 13.4 3PA per 100 possessions (32.2% 3pt)]


Bam and Ware current rate - 9.2 3PA per 100 possessions (33% 3pt). Let's develop this.



I don't think you can simply put those numbers n expect Bam and Ware to develop into a good 3 pt shooting frontcourt tandem for a contending team. It's case by case really.

Among the contenders up there, Porzingis n Lopez are very good outside shooters but mostly stay beyond 3 pt line. And Gordon isn't a big. And all are supporting players, not max contract stars. Do we want that for Ware who could demand a max when the time comes? Do we want him to stand around the 3 pt line when Bam can't do what Tatum, Jokic, Giannis, AD do, which is be a dynamic offensive player? Or do we pay Bam max to stand outside while let Ware be the dynamic offensive player when it's not encouraging that he can develop a dependable 3 like Lopez or Porzingis?


And I'm not at all expecting that to rationalize that Bam and Ware are where they need to be for it to work at the highest level. Ware is a ROOKIE and Bam is developing his perimeter game.

I do believe it provides an informative basis for team building.

The year MIL won, Lopez shot 4 of his 9 FGA per game from beyond the 3pt line

Gordon absolutely is a big. He's the versatile defensive PF that supplements Jokic defensively. The year DEN won, Gordon shot 2.5 of his 11.2 FGA from 3. (22% of his FGA from 3). That season 65% of his FGM were assisted (a higher rate than Bam has had the benefit of experiencing in years). He has a decent amount of similar traits to Bam. Bam has actually been a superior shooter to Gordon throughout every midrange area throughout their careers.

Over Ware's last 3 games, 18 of his 51 FGA have been 3PA. Right around 30% of FGA from 3 seems like a pretty healthy diet for him considering he seems to be a legitimate shooter.

Ramping up Ware to be a full-time player alongside Bam means somewhere from 15-18 minutes of the 2 on the floor together. Which means both players are still spending at least half their minutes running with Jovic (or a smallball PF).

I think the discussion about how their deployed on offense is an interesting one worth having. I think sounding alarms about either player being relegated to just standing in a corner being Haywood Highsmith is patently absurd tbh. Miami runs multi-faceted sets and NEEDS off-ball actions to complement the initial actions.

Bam's versatility in people moving, handling and playmaking for others is already making it easier for Ware to get to his spots to finish. Just last game, Ware literally scored 16 of his 22 points during the ~15 minutes that him and Bam were sharing the floor. This is foundational stuff to build on and that's exactly what the Heat are doing.


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