Are posters concerned he is not going to age well?
I still see Bam as a large part of what the Heat do right, and by far the best recruiter we have on the team. Dude might not be as productive per dollar as other players....but unless you can swap Bam out for one of those high per dollar producers...does it really even matter?
The best shot at a "big 3" type roster still kinda rests on Bam talking one of his buddies to come here.... Yeah Bam is in a slump, hell half the team is probably suffering with this Jimmy Situation, but this really does not seem like a good time to overreact.
Ware popped off and people are pushing narratives that Bam is getting in Ware's way so he needs to be sold-low ASAP. Despite the fact that the Heat have shown clear intention to ramp up Ware to work with Bam
Fans always want to make things one player vs another when they're on the same team
SA37 wrote:I am going to try to give some of the convo flowing here some direction/context. Given the seemingly minimal options for landing spots for Butler AND Miami's apparent desire to avoid taking contracts that go beyond 2026 barring a long-term piece (only see Zion fitting this criteria based on who is available):
1. I am curious as to whether or not the franchise sees Herro's play this year as something they'd like to continue to pursue and build around or if they think him doing so much on offense is ok for now, but will cut it back if/when they can bring other players in.
2. I wonder whether the franchise still takes the view Herro/Bam is 1 player away from having a trio that gets you in the running for a title or if they think they need two players who are better than them.
Bam, imo, is basically a bigger, better version of Draymond Green and Herro is a good but, like Bam, I just don't see him being a perennial all-star or all-NBA team guy.
We had a player who was better, and it was enough to get us to the finals, but not enough to win it all. We need a new superstar to build around, not just a star to add to what we have.
SA37 wrote:3. I'd like to know if Miami still sees Robinson putting up as many 3s as possible as part of a winning strategy and if they'd like to re-sign him at a more manageable number when his contract runs out.
4. Lastly, I am super curious to see if Miami uses the Butler trade demand to make big roster changes with some combo of Rozier, Robinson, JJJ, K Love being shipped out. It seems like it is going to require 4-6 teams, depending on where Butler ends up, and that must mean A LOT of people are going to be on the move.
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to renounce Duncan because his cap hold is ~ $30 million, and re-signing him early at a much lower number would eat into our cap space for that offseason.
This is actually a really good and hard question, what to do with Duncan. Assuming we dont trade Jimmy, just for cap and tax reasons I see us cutting Duncan to get under. If he does survive and is still on the team next year, what number do we resign him for? MLE money or less? Assuming we miss out on a whale, I guess we are forced to resign him but then that would eat up capspace for the next year to go whale hunting.
Luke Kennard is on a 1-year, $9M deal. Malik Beasley is on a 1-year, $6M deal. Tim Hardaway Jr will be a free agent and is having a solid season for the Pistons. Then you have guys like Malcolm Brogdon, Caris Levert, GP II, Amir Coffey, Seth Curry, Doug McDermott, and Gary Trent Jr who will all be available.
I still think Miami wants a player with a skillset like Robinson's -- and the guy has improved his game -- but there are other players shooting at clips on par with Robinson's who are better players (and likely cheaper) than Robinson.
If Robinson is still with Miami when he become a free agent, I think he is going to have to take a massive pay cut. Best-case scenario for him is he gets a contract in line with what Isaiah Joe (4-years, $48M) or Aaron Wiggins (5-years, $45M) got. (Both guys have contracts that get cheaper every year.)
In any case, my feeling is he and Rozier may both be on the way out depending on what happens with Butler.
Are posters concerned he is not going to age well?
I still see Bam as a large part of what the Heat do right, and by far the best recruiter we have on the team. Dude might not be as productive per dollar as other players....but unless you can swap Bam out for one of those high per dollar producers...does it really even matter?
The best shot at a "big 3" type roster still kinda rests on Bam talking one of his buddies to come here.... Yeah Bam is in a slump, hell half the team is probably suffering with this Jimmy Situation, but this really does not seem like a good time to overreact.
I’ve said for a while now (maybe even years) that when Mia moves on from Jimmy, they ought to trade Bam.
I simply dont agree principally which the idea of building around a guy who I view to be a role player.
Despite his regression, i still suspect that he can yield a substantial trade return which can jolt a faster rebuilding process.
Furthermore, I think this team is a lotto team with or without Bam so mine as well trade him for picks and perhaps get more cracks at the lotto.
I agree with whoever is saying that Bam is more of a Draymond Green type player. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Especially with the emurgance of Ware. Which is also frustrating to a lot of us, because most of us knew this all along....but I digress.
Maybe Bam will be able to maximize other areas of his game now that the offensive burden isn't weighing on him as much. Maybe his defense and rebounding get even better since he would be able to focus on the things that he is actually great at. Let's not forget distributing and screen setting. The gaining of the 3 points shot surely won't hurt things either.
Long story short...just because Bam maybe isn't the alpha, #1 offensive option we all hoped he will be become. Maybe he will be the best third option we could ask for. Meanwhile playing elite defense as well.
Anyways, I see plenty of things to be excited about. I'm eager to see what comes from the ashes of the Jimmy mess. Unless it's Randle making it here from Minn......I just read that for the first time today. Please tell me that isn't true??
I understand there is plenty of turmoil right now. But this Ware explosion should really be something to be excited for moving forward. Once the Jimmy nonsense is over, and we can get Bam back on track, we could legit have one of the best front courts in the L. That is something to be excited about.
We clearly need an upgrade at the point. And Tyler has grown in strides. No one would deny that. But we need a guy that will be the take over guy on the perimeter. We need someone to be the guy and own the team moving forward. We will see who that mantle goes to in time. Highsmith needs to keep hitting the three ball. He needs to be our new James Posey/Battier. JJJ and Jovic need to figure out their identity and keep on growing. And I'm sorry, but Duncan is a great shooter and has improved areas of his game too.
contract wrote:We had a player who was better, and it was enough to get us to the finals, but not enough to win it all. We need a new superstar to build around, not just a star to add to what we have.
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to renounce Duncan because his cap hold is ~ $30 million, and re-signing him early at a much lower number would eat into our cap space for that offseason.
This is actually a really good and hard question, what to do with Duncan. Assuming we dont trade Jimmy, just for cap and tax reasons I see us cutting Duncan to get under. If he does survive and is still on the team next year, what number do we resign him for? MLE money or less? Assuming we miss out on a whale, I guess we are forced to resign him but then that would eat up capspace for the next year to go whale hunting.
I wouldn't like to see any more than $10 mil but Riley probably give $12-13
I wouldn't pay him more than the minimum on a one year deal. He's no longer a special shooter, and his defense doesn't even need to be talked about. He does a few other things well on offense, but nothing that would make me tolerate his defense.
Bam is very much overpaid for his current lvl of contribution to winning NBA games. Yes, it is the first season in his career that this is a fact but it's still unfortunately a fact. Bam is not worth the money this season. If he doesn't find a way to exceed his share of the teams budget with his play again, he needs to be traded. Let's hope that he can find a way to evolve into a PF. Been a huge fan of him as a speed C and thought that was the absolute optimal use of his talents. Imo it's been this organizations slight edge for some time.
What is the most likey outcome going forward.
Bam lvl, back to beast: keep him Bam lvl, status que: trade him Bam lvl, further decline: trade him (humans tend to forget this outcome)
Is the FO closer to 20, 50 or 80% on back to beast? And is that for one, two or three seasons? Idk, but based on his current contribution the FO should have an exit plan ready tonight.
Let's hope it turns around for Bam, starting tonight.
20-21 apbrMetrics RMSE Team win projections winner. Three time RMSE runner up RGM TnT board Team Win predictions winner
Not sure why it has to be a big pissing contest. If you’re a Heat fan you can universally agree that he’s been disappointing this season relative to the big contract we just finished handing him. Period end of story. There’s nothing to debate, elaborate on or make excuses for
Are posters concerned he is not going to age well?
I still see Bam as a large part of what the Heat do right, and by far the best recruiter we have on the team. Dude might not be as productive per dollar as other players....but unless you can swap Bam out for one of those high per dollar producers...does it really even matter?
The best shot at a "big 3" type roster still kinda rests on Bam talking one of his buddies to come here.... Yeah Bam is in a slump, hell half the team is probably suffering with this Jimmy Situation, but this really does not seem like a good time to overreact.
Ware popped off and people are pushing narratives that Bam is getting in Ware's way so he needs to be sold-low ASAP. Despite the fact that the Heat have shown clear intention to ramp up Ware to work with Bam
Fans always want to make things one player vs another when they're on the same team
Haha, you becoming like 3ammy? It's not a player vs another. When have people put Herro or Butler, Jovic or whoever against Bam? It's all about talents and the fit. And Bam's offensive regression at age 27. Hey, maybe we could trade Ware for a solid pg. I probably wouldn't mind that if we can upgrade at 1 significantly. It's not about one player.
mitchco wrote:I agree with whoever is saying that Bam is more of a Draymond Green type player. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Especially with the emurgance of Ware. Which is also frustrating to a lot of us, because most of us knew this all along....but I digress.
Maybe Bam will be able to maximize other areas of his game now that the offensive burden isn't weighing on him as much. Maybe his defense and rebounding get even better since he would be able to focus on the things that he is actually great at. Let's not forget distributing and screen setting. The gaining of the 3 points shot surely won't hurt things either.
Long story short...just because Bam maybe isn't the alpha, #1 offensive option we all hoped he will be become. Maybe he will be the best third option we could ask for. Meanwhile playing elite defense as well.
Anyways, I see plenty of things to be excited about. I'm eager to see what comes from the ashes of the Jimmy mess. Unless it's Randle making it here from Minn......I just read that for the first time today. Please tell me that isn't true??
I understand there is plenty of turmoil right now. But this Ware explosion should really be something to be excited for moving forward. Once the Jimmy nonsense is over, and we can get Bam back on track, we could legit have one of the best front courts in the L. That is something to be excited about.
We clearly need an upgrade at the point. And Tyler has grown in strides. No one would deny that. But we need a guy that will be the take over guy on the perimeter. We need someone to be the guy and own the team moving forward. We will see who that mantle goes to in time. Highsmith needs to keep hitting the three ball. He needs to be our new James Posey/Battier. JJJ and Jovic need to figure out their identity and keep on growing. And I'm sorry, but Duncan is a great shooter and has improved areas of his game too.
Anyways,
I don't understand why people assume that a guy who was scoring 20 ppg on good efficiency is going to be OK with being relegated to doing all the dirty work on both ends of the court while everyone else scores.
mitchco wrote:I agree with whoever is saying that Bam is more of a Draymond Green type player. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Especially with the emurgance of Ware. Which is also frustrating to a lot of us, because most of us knew this all along....but I digress.
Maybe Bam will be able to maximize other areas of his game now that the offensive burden isn't weighing on him as much. Maybe his defense and rebounding get even better since he would be able to focus on the things that he is actually great at. Let's not forget distributing and screen setting. The gaining of the 3 points shot surely won't hurt things either.
Long story short...just because Bam maybe isn't the alpha, #1 offensive option we all hoped he will be become. Maybe he will be the best third option we could ask for. Meanwhile playing elite defense as well.
Anyways, I see plenty of things to be excited about. I'm eager to see what comes from the ashes of the Jimmy mess. Unless it's Randle making it here from Minn......I just read that for the first time today. Please tell me that isn't true??
I understand there is plenty of turmoil right now. But this Ware explosion should really be something to be excited for moving forward. Once the Jimmy nonsense is over, and we can get Bam back on track, we could legit have one of the best front courts in the L. That is something to be excited about.
We clearly need an upgrade at the point. And Tyler has grown in strides. No one would deny that. But we need a guy that will be the take over guy on the perimeter. We need someone to be the guy and own the team moving forward. We will see who that mantle goes to in time. Highsmith needs to keep hitting the three ball. He needs to be our new James Posey/Battier. JJJ and Jovic need to figure out their identity and keep on growing. And I'm sorry, but Duncan is a great shooter and has improved areas of his game too.
Anyways,
Draymond outside of GSW would've been a terrible max/near max contract player.
mitchco wrote:I agree with whoever is saying that Bam is more of a Draymond Green type player. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Especially with the emurgance of Ware. Which is also frustrating to a lot of us, because most of us knew this all along....but I digress.
Maybe Bam will be able to maximize other areas of his game now that the offensive burden isn't weighing on him as much. Maybe his defense and rebounding get even better since he would be able to focus on the things that he is actually great at. Let's not forget distributing and screen setting. The gaining of the 3 points shot surely won't hurt things either.
Long story short...just because Bam maybe isn't the alpha, #1 offensive option we all hoped he will be become. Maybe he will be the best third option we could ask for. Meanwhile playing elite defense as well.
Anyways, I see plenty of things to be excited about. I'm eager to see what comes from the ashes of the Jimmy mess. Unless it's Randle making it here from Minn......I just read that for the first time today. Please tell me that isn't true??
I understand there is plenty of turmoil right now. But this Ware explosion should really be something to be excited for moving forward. Once the Jimmy nonsense is over, and we can get Bam back on track, we could legit have one of the best front courts in the L. That is something to be excited about.
We clearly need an upgrade at the point. And Tyler has grown in strides. No one would deny that. But we need a guy that will be the take over guy on the perimeter. We need someone to be the guy and own the team moving forward. We will see who that mantle goes to in time. Highsmith needs to keep hitting the three ball. He needs to be our new James Posey/Battier. JJJ and Jovic need to figure out their identity and keep on growing. And I'm sorry, but Duncan is a great shooter and has improved areas of his game too.
Anyways,
I don't understand why people assume that a guy who was scoring 20 ppg on good efficiency is going to be OK with being relegated to doing all the dirty work on both ends of the court while everyone else scores.
Because he's never looked like he was hungry enough on that side of the court. It's one of people's biggest complaints about him. And to be honest, most of the things he does in the offensive end don't seem very fluid. His game isn't the most refined on the offensive side. And dare I say, he looks nervous and hesitant.
That's why people assume that. And being a third option, even second option some nights, is still plenty of shots. I honestly think he would be more comfortable in that role.
caliban wrote:Bam is very much overpaid for his current lvl of contribution to winning NBA games. Yes, it is the first season in his career that this is a fact but it's still unfortunately a fact. Bam is not worth the money this season. If he doesn't find a way to exceed his share of the teams budget with his play again, he needs to be traded. Let's hope that he can find a way to evolve into a PF. Been a huge fan of him as a speed C and thought that was the absolute optimal use of his talents. Imo it's been this organizations slight edge for some time.
What is the most likey outcome going forward.
Bam lvl, back to beast: keep him Bam lvl, status que: trade him Bam lvl, further decline: trade him (humans tend to forget this outcome)
Is the FO closer to 20, 50 or 80% on back to beast? And is that for one, two or three seasons? Idk, but based on his current contribution the FO should have an exit plan ready tonight.
Let's hope it turns around for Bam, starting tonight.
Reasonable take. I’m with you generally. My assumption and expectation is that this isn’t the new normal but is growing pains (and fatigue). I don’t think Bam has suddenly been zapped of the abilities he has consistently shown throughout his career at the age of 27. Good things often come from growing pains.
How many guys would you realistically move Ware for? You got a guy who is now odds on favorite to win rookie of the year and is on his rookie scale contract until 27-28 season. I think the number of guys are very small because of what you can add to Bam, Herro, and Ware. Ware is taking up virtually no cap space for the next 4 years.
Are posters concerned he is not going to age well?
I still see Bam as a large part of what the Heat do right, and by far the best recruiter we have on the team. Dude might not be as productive per dollar as other players....but unless you can swap Bam out for one of those high per dollar producers...does it really even matter?
The best shot at a "big 3" type roster still kinda rests on Bam talking one of his buddies to come here.... Yeah Bam is in a slump, hell half the team is probably suffering with this Jimmy Situation, but this really does not seem like a good time to overreact.
Ware popped off and people are pushing narratives that Bam is getting in Ware's way so he needs to be sold-low ASAP. Despite the fact that the Heat have shown clear intention to ramp up Ware to work with Bam
Fans always want to make things one player vs another when they're on the same team
Haha, you becoming like 3ammy? It's not a player vs another. When have people put Herro or Butler, Jovic or whoever against Bam? It's all about talents and the fit. And Bam's offensive regression at age 27. Hey, maybe we could trade Ware for a solid pg. I probably wouldn't mind that if we can upgrade at 1 significantly. It's not about one player.
The origin of this discourse between myself and whatever his name is—battery—was quite literally grounded in the notion put forth by him that Miami needs to move on from Bam asap bc of Ware’s emergence and Bam getting in his way
mitchco wrote:I agree with whoever is saying that Bam is more of a Draymond Green type player. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Especially with the emurgance of Ware. Which is also frustrating to a lot of us, because most of us knew this all along....but I digress.
Maybe Bam will be able to maximize other areas of his game now that the offensive burden isn't weighing on him as much. Maybe his defense and rebounding get even better since he would be able to focus on the things that he is actually great at. Let's not forget distributing and screen setting. The gaining of the 3 points shot surely won't hurt things either.
Long story short...just because Bam maybe isn't the alpha, #1 offensive option we all hoped he will be become. Maybe he will be the best third option we could ask for. Meanwhile playing elite defense as well.
Anyways, I see plenty of things to be excited about. I'm eager to see what comes from the ashes of the Jimmy mess. Unless it's Randle making it here from Minn......I just read that for the first time today. Please tell me that isn't true??
I understand there is plenty of turmoil right now. But this Ware explosion should really be something to be excited for moving forward. Once the Jimmy nonsense is over, and we can get Bam back on track, we could legit have one of the best front courts in the L. That is something to be excited about.
We clearly need an upgrade at the point. And Tyler has grown in strides. No one would deny that. But we need a guy that will be the take over guy on the perimeter. We need someone to be the guy and own the team moving forward. We will see who that mantle goes to in time. Highsmith needs to keep hitting the three ball. He needs to be our new James Posey/Battier. JJJ and Jovic need to figure out their identity and keep on growing. And I'm sorry, but Duncan is a great shooter and has improved areas of his game too.
Anyways,
Draymond outside of GSW would've been a terrible max/near max contract player.
Prime Draymond+ on any team with strong shooting/scoring is invaluable for a roster unless down the line the roster has plus size and defense, then it’s less essential but still a positive to have the most versatile and best defender in nba that serves a positive role on O. It allows a ton of flexibility
Daffy wrote:Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.
He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.
He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.
There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.
All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.
So basically just a MID chick from HS
Not gorgeous but not ugly as well.
A friendzone chick
If u don't want 2b here, the way things work, u don't like it, then don't b here.U have 2 stand on something. If Miami ain't standing on something, they become alot of these organizations trying 2 find their identity. This is the culture, bro -Wade
The supermax is still relatively new, so A LOT of players haven't signed supermax extensions but are laser-focused on that goal for their next extensions. DId you know that a payer can't be involved in a sign and trade when signing a super max? Did you know that a player who signs a super max extension can't be traded for something like a year after that?
Help me out here. What players in the next 3 years is Miami targeting to get with ~5 FRPs a young player and cap space? Is it Jaylen Brown? Is that the big get?
Luka, SGA, Young, Fox, and Anthony Edwards if Arod loses arbitration. I’m not arguing trading Bam for the sake of just trading him. But he allows you to get an elite player like Luka, SGA, Young or Edwards you do it without a second thought
You do know there are ways around the super max issue you proposed don’t play dumb about it.
I believe Luka would have to forego supermax extension eligibility beyond 2027 to come to Miami. Same with SGA and Anthony Edwards. You think their lust for Miami is worth over $100M?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Trust me, I would love it. Maybe one guy goes full send, but 2??!
What are the ways around the super max issue aside from waiting at least 1 year after they sign it? Genuinely want to know.
Please advise—can anyone on the board confirm supermax rules?
Johnny Fontane wrote:Not sure why it has to be a big pissing contest. If you’re a Heat fan you can universally agree that he’s been disappointing this season relative to the big contract we just finished handing him. Period end of story. There’s nothing to debate, elaborate on or make excuses for
Unless and until ppl wanna push the notion that Miami NEEDS to ship him off immediately at his lowest value with the rationale being that he’s getting in Wares way. Then there’s plenty to dig into.
Is that your position?
Personally I like to dive into the bball dynamics and better understand what works, what takes dev time, what doesn’t, etc
Daffy wrote:Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.
He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.
He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.
There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.
All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.
To be fair, pretty much no one says the latter. I've not heard anybody say anything like bam being some easily replaceable scrub.
You more often see two things. 1) His very vocal and obsessed fans hyping him above and beyond what the rest of us see in reality. So people are going to respond to that to correct/challenge it. I mean there was just a conversation with Cherry picked numbers to pretend that AD and Bam have anywhere near the same offensive bag or offensive impact. Previously there were the repeated lies about Bam and Bosh being similar offensively. People don't like their intelligence played with I guess.
The second thing you often see is those same very vocal and obsessed fans scapegoating any and everything else in the organization, as a reason for why Bam is clearly not what they otherwise claim him to be. Again, people are going to step in and speak to that to correct it.
I think once you stop that overzealous talk from his fans, I very much doubt that you see the amount of bam conversation you see on here. And strangely that's something that his fans should really appreciate, because there's pretty much no other player I can think of that would be getting the max and have as few expectations to meet as Bam without extreme harsh criticism. Bam actually gets to skate on a lot because of how important he is to our defense.
Spot on. Pretty much my point elaborated in a friendlier way lol. Im sick of the f*ckery every season. Let Bam be Bam & not hype him up as a player 50 times better than who he actually is every chance you f*ckin get & defend him every minute of the day & we can all get along. Stop being a sensitive GF
If u don't want 2b here, the way things work, u don't like it, then don't b here.U have 2 stand on something. If Miami ain't standing on something, they become alot of these organizations trying 2 find their identity. This is the culture, bro -Wade
