Dwyane Wade: The Road to Respectability

[Mos_Heat]

Bull ****. Everybody here talking about poor Wade who has been sacrificing so much for the Heat but yall fail to realise Wade is already in top 25 earners in the entire history of NBA. 2/50 contract he seeks will bump him up to 5th all time.

What he does outside his contract does not count.

His endorsements etc aren't being counted. His salary accumulated alone at 2/40 or 2/50 will place him at #6. It will probably be eclipsed by some scrub ten years from now, but that doesn't matter.

Yeah, it doesn't. But no need to count other people's money.

[dancing2thabeet]

Even Ira gets it.

Bull ****. Everybody here talking about poor Wade who has been sacrificing so much for the Heat but yall fail to realise Wade is already in top 25 earners in the entire history of NBA. 2/50 contract he seeks will bump him up to 5th all time.

What he does outside his contract does not count.

That's strictly from contracts.

[Hallstar]

lol, 1 thing I will say

It's funny how we go from 1 win from the ECF, to if Wade leaves, people are talking about lottery, but then some can't reconcile why the man is asking for his money.

Why can't the rest of the team that's locked up til God knows when get us to the playoffs?

Only the Heat.

[WiseOwlWins]

Bull ****. Everybody here talking about poor Wade who has been sacrificing so much for the Heat but yall fail to realise Wade is already in top 25 earners in the entire history of NBA. 2/50 contract he seeks will bump him up to 5th all time.

What he does outside his contract does not count.

That's strictly from contracts.

doesnt matter what he's made in 13 years or the reasoning behind why he's asking for 2 years 50 mill or 3 for 60.

it is his market value.

[insfo]

lol, 1 thing I will say

It's funny how we go from 1 win from the ECF, to if Wade leaves, people are talking about lottery, but then some can't reconcile why the man is asking for his money.

Why can't the rest of the team that's locked up til God knows when get us to the playoffs?

Only the Heat.

While I get your point, we lost Deng as well. Plus those advocating a tank are saying, lets trade Dragic and then tank. If Bosh plays this year, I think we'll be a playoff team next year even without Wade. If Bosh does not play, then we'll be in the 9-13 range I think .. just missing the playoffs while being close till the end of the season. I see the East being very tight either way.

That said, fingers crossed that I don't have to type McWaubets one more time after today other than in his "Appreciation" thread. Lets do it, Riles .. -McWaubets +Wade = Bliss

[dancing2thabeet]

What he does outside his contract does not count.

That's strictly from contracts.

doesnt matter what he's made in 13 years or the reasoning behind why he's asking for 2 years 50 mill or 3 for 60.

it is his market value.

So first one thing doesn't count and when I prove you wrong the next thing doesn't matter?

Look, if you really believe Wade will be worth 20 mil 3 years from now then I don't think we can continue this conversation.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

lol, 1 thing I will say

It's funny how we go from 1 win from the ECF, to if Wade leaves, people are talking about lottery, but then some can't reconcile why the man is asking for his money.

Why can't the rest of the team that's locked up til God knows when get us to the playoffs?

Only the Heat.

I am not one of those who says he isn't worth his money. However, I get where their line of thinking comes from.

Some people view the NBA in terms of lottery, treadmill, and contender, and they feel you can only be 1 of those at a time. And they are deathly afraid of the treadmill, because once you get on it, it can sometimes be very difficult to get off.

They would argue that Wade at best just makes us a treadmill team for the next few seasons, without any realistic championship expectations, and I think that is mostly accurate.

Wade can no longer be the best player on a championship team unless they are exceptionally well-rounded (no chance of that with young guys like Hassan and TJ about to be paid), and he won't be the second best player on this team unless we make a miracle trade (KD signing already struck out), or he continues to decline, but even if Hassan (or healthy Bosh) overtake him as a better player, that doesn't improve us much unless Hassan grows incredibly as a player.

That being said, I don't think teams really get stuck on the treadmill unless they don't understand how to get off of it (Riley does), and I also don't think sitting in the lottery for years is a winning strategy, although you do usually have to be bad eventually to get good.

I'm comfortable with a few treadmill years to round out Wade's career, I don't mind giving up the slim chance we pick the next LeBron in the draft from sucking by letting Wade walk. Others, they prefer to take that gamble, and don't really have the same sentimentality for Wade, or value treadmill seasons as highly (I think they can still be fun even if they're almost sure to end in failure).

[HeatFanDan]

That's strictly from contracts.

doesnt matter what he's made in 13 years or the reasoning behind why he's asking for 2 years 50 mill or 3 for 60.

it is his market value.

So first one thing doesn't count and when I prove you wrong the next thing doesn't matter?

Look, if you really believe Wade will be worth 20 mil 3 years from now then I don't think we can continue this conversation.

Word. Just think of how many single-digit scoring games Wade has had in the last two seasons. Each season from here on out that number is going to grow and grow.

[Shewasfly]

People can't possibly think of treadmill teams that poorly if they claim Riley had soooo much success in Miami before Wade.

[QUIZ]

Ethan basically put the LeBron changed Wade narrative to bed.

He said between the two of them Wade is the more influential by far and it's Wade that influences LeBron not the other way around.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

People can't possible think of treadmill teams that poorly if they claim Riley had soooo much success in Miami before Wade.

Didn't you say yourself you weren't even a Heat fan at the time? Because if you weren't, then I suppose you wouldn't remember the 96-97 Heat won 61 games and went to the ECF where they faced off with the 69 win Bulls. Because of that, the ceiling on those teams wasn't considered treadmill, although that is where it wound up, and they did underachieve (losing consecutive years to lower seeded Knicks teams).

A Wade-led squad for the next 3 years, with less depth than we had this last season, and Bosh a complete question mark, has a much lower ceiling than those late 90's Heat teams. Prime Zo >> current Wade, as much as I love both players, and while Zo was growing as a player, Wade is hitting the back 9. Our second best player is Hassan, but he's considered a wildcard, and Justise while promising has still done little to suggest he's ready for stardom.

Its a shame that Bosh had to go down, because if he were healthy, I think you could argue we were 1 key trade away from breaking through, like those Zo/Timmy teams were. As is though, we needed a home run like KD.

One more point on Riley, he built those teams without the help of a superstar falling into his lap in the draft. He traded for Zo and convinced Tim to sign (almost got Gary Payton instead actually too), then traded spare parts for Jamal Mashburn for a third scorer. He always wanted Mitch Richmond instead of Mash though, and I firmly believe if he had gotten Mitch instead, one of those Heat teams at least makes the Finals. But, we'll never know.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Ethan basically put the LeBron changed Wade narrative to bed.

He said between the two of them Wade is the more influential by far and it's Wade that influences LeBron not the other way around.

I think that was always pretty clear, I mean LeBron did come here after all. If LeBron were the more influential, they would've gone to a neutral team in 2010 like the Nets or Bulls.

[Hallstar]

Ethan basically put the LeBron changed Wade narrative to bed.

He said between the two of them Wade is the more influential by far and it's Wade that influences LeBron not the other way around.

Wade has always been the "big brother" in that relationship.

Which is why I was laughing at some of the posts in these threads.

This is looking more and more like Wade was promised/negotiated certain things on the back end to facilitate moves over the years and is now cashing in the check one way or the other.

[Swindle]

[Shewasfly]

People can't possible think of treadmill teams that poorly if they claim Riley had soooo much success in Miami before Wade.

Didn't you say yourself you weren't even a Heat fan at the time? Because if you weren't, then I suppose you wouldn't remember the 96-97 Heat won 61 games and went to the ECF where they faced off with the 69 win Bulls. Because of that, the ceiling on those teams wasn't considered treadmill, although that is where it wound up, and they did underachieve (losing consecutive years to lower seeded Knicks teams).

A Wade-led squad for the next 3 years, with less depth than we had this last season, and Bosh a complete question mark, has a much lower ceiling than those late 90's Heat teams. Prime Zo >> current Wade, as much as I love both players, and while he was growing as a player, Wade is hitting the back 9. Our second best player is Hassan, but he's considered a wildcard, and Justise while promising has still done little to suggest he's ready for stardom.

Its a shame that Bosh had to go down, because if he were healthy, I think you could argue we were 1 key trade away from breaking through, like those Zo/Timmy teams were. As is though, we needed a home run like KD.

I was young during the era to know all about the ins an outs of what was happening with contracts and player movement. I didn't say I wasn't alive. And an ECF appearance in about a decade of work is the definition of treadmill sorry. Ceiling doesn't matter either, because those Heat teams weren't getting past the stacked Jordan teams just like this team isn't getting past the stacked Cavs team.

We could have a chance, but we don't have depth because for years we only focused on getting a "big fish" and wouldn't sign any role players for long term. But we did sign complimentary, 3rd best on a championship team AT BEST pieces like Dragic, Bosh, and Whiteside to big money. Oh well. Its just funny to hear people act like Wade is the difference between the dreaded treadmill (aka Riley's glory days) or not. That is the path this team is built for regardless.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I was young during the era to know all about the ins an outs of what was happening with contracts and player movement. I didn't say I wasn't alive. And an ECF appearance in about a decade of work is the definition of treadmill sorry. Ceiling doesn't matter either, because those Heat teams weren't getting past the stacked Jordan teams just like this team isn't getting past the stacked Cavs team.

We could have a chance, but we don't have depth because for years we only focused on getting a "big fish" and wouldn't sign any role players for long term. But we did sign complimentary, 3rd best on a championship team AT BEST pieces like Dragic, Bosh, and Whiteside to big money. Oh well. Its just funny to hear people act like Wade is the difference between the dreaded treadmill (aka Riley's glory days) or not. That is the path this team is built for regardless.

If your definition of treadmill is simply win the chip or don't, then I'm not sure why you even want Wade to re-sign, because our best chance at being a good championship favorite is drafting the NEXT Wade or Duncan or LeBron, that's typically how teams do it in the NBA if they want to be dominant. There was the 2004 Pistons, and the 2011 Mavs (who still had an all-time great in Dirk), and then after that its mostly teams with a top 15-20 player of all-time building their team around that player and winning in that player's prime.

Well, the Spurs won 1 past Duncan's prime, but they had the benefit of 2 other all time greats paired with him, a future great in Kawhi, and arguably the GOAT coach. So yes, if the huge criticism of Riley is he isn't Popovich, guilty as charged. He's also not Phil Jackson either, look where the Knicks are.

Personally, I define treadmill as a team just good enough to make the playoffs, with NO hope of going all the way, so something like 35-45 win teams. Anything over 50 and I think you are on the right path, and can always break through, as long as things go your way. But that's just me. And I also said earlier, I do NOT necessarily dread the treadmill. As long as you know how to get off of it, which I feel Riley does. Between him and our location, I think we'll always be an attractive enough destination to have a good shot in free agency, remember Lamar Odom and Elton Brand both wanted to come here before Wade had done anything.

[Shewasfly]

I was young during the era to know all about the ins an outs of what was happening with contracts and player movement. I didn't say I wasn't alive. And an ECF appearance in about a decade of work is the definition of treadmill sorry. Ceiling doesn't matter either, because those Heat teams weren't getting past the stacked Jordan teams just like this team isn't getting past the stacked Cavs team.

We could have a chance, but we don't have depth because for years we only focused on getting a "big fish" and wouldn't sign any role players for long term. But we did sign complimentary, 3rd best on a championship team AT BEST pieces like Dragic, Bosh, and Whiteside to big money. Oh well. Its just funny to hear people act like Wade is the difference between the dreaded treadmill (aka Riley's glory days) or not. That is the path this team is built for regardless.

If your definition of treadmill is simply win the chip or don't, then I'm not sure why you even want Wade to re-sign, because our best chance at being a good championship favorite is drafting the NEXT Wade or Duncan or LeBron, that's typically how teams do it in the NBA if they want to be dominant. There was the 2004 Pistons, and the 2011 Mavs (who still had an all-time great in Dirk), and then after that its mostly teams with a top 15-20 player of all-time building their team around that player and winning in that player's prime.

Well, the Spurs won 1 past Duncan's prime, but they had the benefit of 2 other all time greats paired with him, a future great in Kawhi, and arguably the GOAT coach. So yes, if the huge criticism of Riley is he isn't Popovich, guilty as charged. He's also not Phil Jackson either, look where the Knicks are.

Personally, I define treadmill as a team just good enough to make the playoffs, with NO hope of going all the way, so something like 35-45 win teams. Anything over 50 and I think you are on the right path, and can always break through, as long as things go your way. But that's just me. And I also said earlier, I do NOT necessarily dread the treadmill. As long as you know how to get off of it, which I feel Riley does. Between him and our location, I think we'll always be an attractive enough destination to have a good shot in free agency, remember Lamar Odom and Elton Brand both wanted to come here before Wade had done anything.

I'd agree with your definition actually. Many of the people who are on here fighting the good fight against becoming a treadmill team would not however. That is why they consider the Hawks & Toronto (of the past few years) treadmill.

And if you think Elton Brand and Lamar Odo would have lead us to anything...well...that's your opinion.

[ryanpuge]

F this!!! I dont know if I can survive another day in the office waiting for the Decision 2.0...

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I'd agree with your definition actually. Many of the people who are on here fighting the good fight against becoming a treadmill team would not however. That is why they consider the Hawks & Toronto (of the past few years) treadmill.

Well, it depends. I'd argue the Hawks and Toronto were borderline treadmill teams, because they had little ability to improve themselves, and no true stars to rely on in the playoffs (lets face it, the Horfords/Teagues/Derozans/Lowry's of the world don't step their game up). On the other hand, something like the 2011 Bulls or 2012 Thunder, those were definite championship contenders who just ran into the wrong team, or didn't perform as well as they could have. (and in both cases, broke up prematurely)

And maybe that is me overrating a Rose/Durant, or underrating a Derozan/Horford. I dunno. Just the feeling I get when I watch them play.

And if you think Elton Brand and Lamar Odo would have lead us to anything...well...that's your opinion.

Never said otherwise, but those are still fairly huge free agency gets. Guys like LeBron just swapping teams in the middle of their prime in free agency used to be exceedingly rare, though the league is changing and with KD doing it as well, it might become more common.

We also were extremely close to getting Tracy McGrady, he only chose Orlando over us because we could only do a sign and trade and he was able to get slightly more money from the Magic, and while he wasn't a superstar at the time, he turned into one shortly after (and then injuries quickly ended that).

[HMFFL]

Waiting for Wade to make his decision is starting to bother me.
No, not a Miami fan by any means, but I expected Wade to finish out his career in Miami.
Denver, really? That doesn't it seem like it would be right even if they're offering more money.