ImageImageImage

Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4

Moderators: KingDavid, QUIZ, heat4life, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44

AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,417
And1: 32,231
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#681 » by AirP. » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:01 pm

Hallstar wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Rodrizzle wrote:
Kevin Love shot 0.430% from 2 compared to Herro .447%
Love is a PF/C....but Herro is an inefficent chucker? Ok then :crazy:

That's not efficiency, that's FG%
TS% is efficiency.
Love .594
Herro .561

ORTG?
Love 117 (108 DRTG)
Herro 107 (111 DRTG)

If you look at their per36 to get the rate of stats they're creating.
Love 21.8 pts, 11.6 reb, 3.5 ast, 2.1 TO
Herro 22.9 pts, 5.5 reb, 4.4 ast, 2.9 TO

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2022.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2022.html

Love doesn't get anywhere near the attention or shot creation ability. Stand at the 3 and chuck only works until people pay attention

Ok and? So you're arguing about a guy who's off ball is putting up a rate of stats as a main playmaker who is given the ball most of the game and has a green light nearly the whole game because he's going to play a lot more minutes.

Looking at real +/- Love is at -0.57 while Herro is at -1.69.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/6
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/6


The argument for Herro would be that Love could go all out (much like Dedmon does) since he plays less minutes while Herro has to pace himself when coming off the bench. I don't just look at points and say that guys better.

The point is, there is an argument between these two, it's not as clean cut as Heat centric fans try to make it out to be.
Slot Machine
Head Coach
Posts: 6,752
And1: 4,879
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
 

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#682 » by Slot Machine » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:14 pm

Love has a net rating of -2.1 and Herro has a net rating of +2.5. There’s not much of an argument unless Love’s stats and advanced stats are cherry-picked for certain comparisons to make Love look better. Love had a good year, but let’s keep it real here, people arguing Love as the rightful 6MOY are just being contrarians.

Herro winning 6MOY has been taken off most sport books for weeks.
The Bunk wrote:God I hate this fraudulent clown.

I've never wanted to punch someone in the face so badly. Really hoping to run into him at a game one day. I won't hesitate.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,453
And1: 52,006
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#683 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:26 pm

Read on Twitter
#FreeBam
#Klutch
User avatar
marson
Head Coach
Posts: 6,163
And1: 13,414
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
 

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#684 » by marson » Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:46 am

Did not know we used our old seven nation army intro.



Reminds me of 12-13 Heat :(

That Spurs series is still my favorite series of all time. Look at the crowd.

User avatar
Hallstar
Head Coach
Posts: 6,828
And1: 7,790
Joined: Jul 15, 2008
   

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#685 » by Hallstar » Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:15 pm

AirP. wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
AirP. wrote:That's not efficiency, that's FG%
TS% is efficiency.
Love .594
Herro .561

ORTG?
Love 117 (108 DRTG)
Herro 107 (111 DRTG)

If you look at their per36 to get the rate of stats they're creating.
Love 21.8 pts, 11.6 reb, 3.5 ast, 2.1 TO
Herro 22.9 pts, 5.5 reb, 4.4 ast, 2.9 TO

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2022.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2022.html

Love doesn't get anywhere near the attention or shot creation ability. Stand at the 3 and chuck only works until people pay attention

Ok and? So you're arguing about a guy who's off ball is putting up a rate of stats as a main playmaker who is given the ball most of the game and has a green light nearly the whole game because he's going to play a lot more minutes.

Looking at real +/- Love is at -0.57 while Herro is at -1.69.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/6
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/6


The argument for Herro would be that Love could go all out (much like Dedmon does) since he plays less minutes while Herro has to pace himself when coming off the bench. I don't just look at points and say that guys better.

The point is, there is an argument between these two, it's not as clean cut as Heat centric fans try to make it out to be.

No there is not an argument, and that's the end of me entertaining it.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,417
And1: 32,231
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#686 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:21 pm

Hallstar wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Hallstar wrote:Love doesn't get anywhere near the attention or shot creation ability. Stand at the 3 and chuck only works until people pay attention

Ok and? So you're arguing about a guy who's off ball is putting up a rate of stats as a main playmaker who is given the ball most of the game and has a green light nearly the whole game because he's going to play a lot more minutes.

Looking at real +/- Love is at -0.57 while Herro is at -1.69.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/6
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/6


The argument for Herro would be that Love could go all out (much like Dedmon does) since he plays less minutes while Herro has to pace himself when coming off the bench. I don't just look at points and say that guys better.

The point is, there is an argument between these two, it's not as clean cut as Heat centric fans try to make it out to be.

No there is not an argument, and that's the end of me entertaining it.

Got it, whoever plays the most minutes off the bench to total the most stats wins for you. I'm not so much on that side but many people are especially people who don't look much into the players other then PPG.
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 37,661
And1: 92,432
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#687 » by DayofMourning » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 pm

AirP. wrote:Got it, whoever plays the most minutes off the bench to total the most stats wins for you. I'm not so much on that side but many people are.


I'm with you AirP. It's all about advanced stats. For example, Embiid has a 114 offensive rating and a 104 defensive rating for his career. Yurtseven is at 112 and 104 this year. That's why I've got Embiid as marginally better, and Jarrett Allen as the best center in the league.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,417
And1: 32,231
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#688 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:51 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
AirP. wrote:Got it, whoever plays the most minutes off the bench to total the most stats wins for you. I'm not so much on that side but many people are.


I'm with you AirP. It's all about advanced stats. For example, Embiid has a 114 offensive rating and a 104 defensive rating for his career. Yurtseven is at 112 and 104 this year. That's why I've got Embiid as marginally better, and Jarrett Allen as the best center in the league.

Or maybe take in consideration of the context of the stats?

My point is to look at the pros and cons of an argument on each side, if you can't do that your decision can't really be taken seriously.

On Yurtseven, Dedmon proved it last year that a legit sized averaged skilled big can do very well in this offense, good enough Miami was fine moving Bam's future backup and sticking with Dedmon, then came along Yurtseven who continued to prove that an average skilled big could flourish. Miami's FO/Coaching staff is just infatuated with the idea of a switching center and it does seem to be working. Dedmon was 117 and 105, why no mention of him?

I'm seen as a person who hates Herro yet I praise his shooting and skillset(especially for his age), I just see some really concerning problems that aren't so easy to fix.
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 37,661
And1: 92,432
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#689 » by DayofMourning » Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:52 am

AirP. wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
AirP. wrote:Got it, whoever plays the most minutes off the bench to total the most stats wins for you. I'm not so much on that side but many people are.


I'm with you AirP. It's all about advanced stats. For example, Embiid has a 114 offensive rating and a 104 defensive rating for his career. Yurtseven is at 112 and 104 this year. That's why I've got Embiid as marginally better, and Jarrett Allen as the best center in the league.

Or maybe take in consideration of the context of the stats?

My point is to look at the pros and cons of an argument on each side, if you can't do that your decision can't really be taken seriously.

On Yurtseven, Dedmon proved it last year that a legit sized averaged skilled big can do very well in this offense, good enough Miami was fine moving Bam's future backup and sticking with Dedmon, then came along Yurtseven who continued to prove that an average skilled big could flourish. Miami's FO/Coaching staff is just infatuated with the idea of a switching center and it does seem to be working. Dedmon was 117 and 105, why no mention of him?

I'm seen as a person who hates Herro yet I praise his shooting and skillset(especially for his age), I just see some really concerning problems that aren't so easy to fix.


I get it AirP. You like to play devils advocate to a bunch of homer Heat fans. You're trying to get some rabid fans to look at other POV logically when they just want their candidate to win. It's a bit like running in mud, but you will eventually get somewhere.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,417
And1: 32,231
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#690 » by AirP. » Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:37 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
AirP. wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
I'm with you AirP. It's all about advanced stats. For example, Embiid has a 114 offensive rating and a 104 defensive rating for his career. Yurtseven is at 112 and 104 this year. That's why I've got Embiid as marginally better, and Jarrett Allen as the best center in the league.

Or maybe take in consideration of the context of the stats?

My point is to look at the pros and cons of an argument on each side, if you can't do that your decision can't really be taken seriously.

On Yurtseven, Dedmon proved it last year that a legit sized averaged skilled big can do very well in this offense, good enough Miami was fine moving Bam's future backup and sticking with Dedmon, then came along Yurtseven who continued to prove that an average skilled big could flourish. Miami's FO/Coaching staff is just infatuated with the idea of a switching center and it does seem to be working. Dedmon was 117 and 105, why no mention of him?

I'm seen as a person who hates Herro yet I praise his shooting and skillset(especially for his age), I just see some really concerning problems that aren't so easy to fix.


I get it AirP. You like to play devils advocate to a bunch of homer Heat fans. You're trying to get some rabid fans to look at other POV logically when they just want their candidate to win. It's a bit like running in mud, but you will eventually get somewhere.

Not playing devil's advocate, just stating things I think are major flaws that will keep him from being a great help to the team their on, as good as people think he is, he could be so much better with just normal focus and caring of possessions. I want to see Herro succeed but I'm going to talk about things I see that are just unnecessary for him to do, it's not like I've not been doing this for years, I delt with this on the Minnesota boards for about 2 years pointing out these types of issues with Wiggins and Towns with both of them coming off 23+ ppg seasons in 16-17.

Imagine being the only person talking about stupid little things about their "potential" players like why is Wiggins not paying attention during the game, he wasn't talking to the ref while he stared in the stands while his man back doored him for an easy alley oop layup. I still have no idea why he spaced out during a live ball, I could somewhat understand if he was communicating with the ref but he wasn't.
Spoiler:
Image


Or why in the $)(# does Towns have a food in the lane when Gibson is in position for the help defense and Town's man...B.Lopez is completely alone in the corner... which ended up being an uncontested 3. Towns has HOF talent but just makes poor decisions all the time and is currently in year 7 of his career, he may be who he's going to be. Luckily Minnesota lucked into Anthony Edwards so they'll be fine while they have him.
Spoiler:
Image


It's basically the same thing, different message board, talented younger players getting a pass on their rookie contract and then become "problems" on their 2nd contract. Hopefully Robinson was just a way to have a somewhat sizable contract to move in the summer of 2022.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,453
And1: 52,006
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#691 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:34 pm

I could’ve swore Lowrys 3rd year had a player/team option with it but apparently it doesn’t?!
#FreeBam
#Klutch
MorbidHEAT
Analyst
Posts: 3,196
And1: 5,770
Joined: Aug 04, 2010

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#692 » by MorbidHEAT » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:14 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:I could’ve swore Lowrys 3rd year had a player/team option with it but apparently it doesn’t?!


Nope. 3 years fully guaranteed.
User avatar
KingDavid
Forum Mod - Heat
Forum Mod - Heat
Posts: 31,574
And1: 41,161
Joined: Sep 04, 2013
       

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#693 » by KingDavid » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:20 pm

AirP. wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
AirP. wrote:Got it, whoever plays the most minutes off the bench to total the most stats wins for you. I'm not so much on that side but many people are.


I'm with you AirP. It's all about advanced stats. For example, Embiid has a 114 offensive rating and a 104 defensive rating for his career. Yurtseven is at 112 and 104 this year. That's why I've got Embiid as marginally better, and Jarrett Allen as the best center in the league.

Or maybe take in consideration of the context of the stats?

My point is to look at the pros and cons of an argument on each side, if you can't do that your decision can't really be taken seriously.

On Yurtseven, Dedmon proved it last year that a legit sized averaged skilled big can do very well in this offense, good enough Miami was fine moving Bam's future backup and sticking with Dedmon, then came along Yurtseven who continued to prove that an average skilled big could flourish. Miami's FO/Coaching staff is just infatuated with the idea of a switching center and it does seem to be working. Dedmon was 117 and 105, why no mention of him?

I'm seen as a person who hates Herro yet I praise his shooting and skillset(especially for his age), I just see some really concerning problems that aren't so easy to fix.

Weren't we playing drop coverage when Yurt was playing? We returned back to switching when Bam came back and that's not his strength. Spo is not going to change his scheme for a rookie.
#HEATLifer

Long Live Kobe Bryant. My idol's idol.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,417
And1: 32,231
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#694 » by AirP. » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:54 pm

KingDavid wrote:
AirP. wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
I'm with you AirP. It's all about advanced stats. For example, Embiid has a 114 offensive rating and a 104 defensive rating for his career. Yurtseven is at 112 and 104 this year. That's why I've got Embiid as marginally better, and Jarrett Allen as the best center in the league.

Or maybe take in consideration of the context of the stats?

My point is to look at the pros and cons of an argument on each side, if you can't do that your decision can't really be taken seriously.

On Yurtseven, Dedmon proved it last year that a legit sized averaged skilled big can do very well in this offense, good enough Miami was fine moving Bam's future backup and sticking with Dedmon, then came along Yurtseven who continued to prove that an average skilled big could flourish. Miami's FO/Coaching staff is just infatuated with the idea of a switching center and it does seem to be working. Dedmon was 117 and 105, why no mention of him?

I'm seen as a person who hates Herro yet I praise his shooting and skillset(especially for his age), I just see some really concerning problems that aren't so easy to fix.

Weren't we playing drop coverage when Yurt was playing? We returned back to switching when Bam came back and that's not his strength. Spo is not going to change his scheme for a rookie.

They played the same as they do with Dedmon so 2 different systems are happening depending on the center. I believe the drafting of Precious was to go completely to switching with and without Bam but Dedmon's success last year as basically a traditional center seemed to make a backup like Bam not really needed.
twix2500
RealGM
Posts: 27,950
And1: 28,272
Joined: Dec 25, 2003
   

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#695 » by twix2500 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:45 am

Playoff JimmyImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#696 » by harlem_ball » Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:50 am

Suns now in a struggle against Ingram's Pelis. If they bow out this thing is wide open, ladies, gentlemen and nonbinary's.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,453
And1: 52,006
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#697 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:57 am

twix2500 wrote:Playoff JimmyImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Jimmys gotta be the playoff MVP right now right?
#FreeBam
#Klutch
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#698 » by harlem_ball » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:01 am

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Playoff JimmyImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Jimmys gotta be the playoff MVP right now right?


Soon. Jokic will probably be out soon.
User avatar
3ammy3uck3ts
RealGM
Posts: 38,453
And1: 52,006
Joined: Nov 11, 2021
 

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#699 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:03 am

harlem_ball wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Playoff JimmyImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Jimmys gotta be the playoff MVP right now right?


Soon. Jokic will probably be out soon.


How is Jokic the mvp down 1-3?
#FreeBam
#Klutch
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#700 » by harlem_ball » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:05 am

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Jimmys gotta be the playoff MVP right now right?


Soon. Jokic will probably be out soon.


How is Jokic the mvp down 1-3?


Jokic will not be mvp. Jimmy will soon be the front runner.

Return to Miami Heat