Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 2 : We Running it Back.. (WITH MITCHELL!)

[3ammy3uck3ts]

With this number being tossed out there for Monk (which is insane), it makes Herro's contract not look as bad. It just takes one team to be good with the price. Monk was signed by LAL for the min and then the Kings paid him 10 mil last year. At this current point in the NBA, I think anyone 25+ mil needs to be your 3rd best player or better and I don't see Monk being the 3rd best player for a championship team.

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They’re basically the same player production wise, give Monk Herros usage and shot attempts and he’s scoring just as much while assisting at a higher rate. Herro the better rebounder. But idk if your point was that Herro is way better or just that there is now a similar player to Herro with a similar contract

[AirP.]

Herro desperately needs a change of scenery. The organization needs to move on. The moment UD went on national TV and stated Tyler needed to be a 6th man was pretty much the writing on the wall.

I think there's some context missing with UD's statement. On Miami's team and how they build around defense first, a guy like Herro probably should come off the bench.

Herro needs to be on a team with a more open offense and either not care about defense or they have a shot blocker to help cover up lesser to terrible perimeter defenders. His offense isn't dominate enough to cover up his defensive decencies the way Miami plays.

Doesn’t the same apply to Terry, his defense was not good but maybe with an offseason learning our system it gets a little better?

Rozier isn't as bad as Herro on defense plus he's quicker so he can defend PGs better. There were many times where I've not seen a defender give less effort on the defensive end than Herro, he literally looked like a traffic cone out there (at least he didn't give up and 1s like Robinsons). What is odd to me is that Herro when given good effort on the defensive end, he's been acceptable on the defensive end, he just doesn't do that very often. I still look back at his effort level in the Mexico City game against San Antonio and wonder, why can't he give that kind of defensive effort most nights? You'd like for your top guys to take ownership of the team where if they don't have it offensively some nights, they give more effort on the defensive end to try to help the team. Just notice his effort level on the defensive end, at the time I was wondering, has he finally figured it out? The answer so far has been no, maybe being traded will push him to give solid effort on both sides of the court, if so, he could help a team but getting hat effort from him on defense is key for whoever he ends up playing with.

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[AirP.]

With this number being tossed out there for Monk (which is insane), it makes Herro's contract not look as bad. It just takes one team to be good with the price. Monk was signed by LAL for the min and then the Kings paid him 10 mil last year. At this current point in the NBA, I think anyone 25+ mil needs to be your 3rd best player or better and I don't see Monk being the 3rd best player for a championship team.

Spoiler:

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They’re basically the same player production wise, give Monk Herros usage and shot attempts and he’s scoring just as much while assisting at a higher rate. Herro the better rebounder. But idk if your point was that Herro is way better or just that there is now a similar player to Herro with a similar contract

I don't think either is worth that much but with Monk possibly looking at his 4th team already (journeyman) it makes Herro's contract not look too bad. I wouldn't want to give up that much for a player of that quality, as the cap goes up 10% per year maybe both contracts look fine in a couple more years.

[RexBoyWonder]

Herro desperately needs a change of scenery. The organization needs to move on. The moment UD went on national TV and stated Tyler needed to be a 6th man was pretty much the writing on the wall.

I think there's some context missing with UD's statement. On Miami's team and how they build around defense first, a guy like Herro probably should come off the bench.

Herro needs to be on a team with a more open offense and either not care about defense or they have a shot blocker to help cover up lesser to terrible perimeter defenders. His offense isn't dominate enough to cover up his defensive decencies the way Miami plays.

Too many years wrapped up in trade talks and fan base bullying has not been healthy. It’s time for both parties to move on.

Gut feeling - I agree

Head thinking - not smart to sell low. Might get a lot more if we wait for trade deadline. He's still young and improving.

If we get fair value right now - do it. But shouldn't accept pennies on the dollar. out of desperation.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I think there's some context missing with UD's statement. On Miami's team and how they build around defense first, a guy like Herro probably should come off the bench.

Herro needs to be on a team with a more open offense and either not care about defense or they have a shot blocker to help cover up lesser to terrible perimeter defenders. His offense isn't dominate enough to cover up his defensive decencies the way Miami plays.

Too many years wrapped up in trade talks and fan base bullying has not been healthy. It’s time for both parties to move on.

Gut feeling - I agree

Head thinking - not smart to sell low. Might get a lot more if we wait for trade deadline. He's still young and improving.

If we get fair value right now - do it. But shouldn't accept pennies on the dollar. out of desperation.

Only improvement has been his FGA

[MettaWorldPanda]

I don't think Rozier is going to fetch much in the open market and would probably be more valuable to us as our 6th man rather then selling him short. After this year then Rozier becomes an expiring contract and will be a lot more valuable in trade talks. In the mean time let's get our 1st rd pick worth with having a scorer like him off the bench. It's not like he can't be paired with Mitchell at times either. Darius Garland was also a 6'1 guard. Having functional depth is also important and especially after we trade Herro, JJJ, and Duncan. Somebody is going to need to score off that bench.

[Lennyzinho]

With this number being tossed out there for Monk (which is insane), it makes Herro's contract not look as bad. It just takes one team to be good with the price. Monk was signed by LAL for the min and then the Kings paid him 10 mil last year. At this current point in the NBA, I think anyone 25+ mil needs to be your 3rd best player or better and I don't see Monk being the 3rd best player for a championship team.

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To be fair teams need to spend a minimum amount per season with new CBA rules. And teams like Sixers Magic OKC have a bunch of cap space. OKC and Magic especially could use a scoring punch and have tons of young cheap contracts, so instead of giving a player like monk 4-80M they could be like yo come here for 2-50M and then hit the market again when cap is higher again etc. It's a win win for both Magic and Monk. Similar to what Houston did with FVV, overpaid but less years. But ofc someone paying Monk 25M ofc can only help Herro perceived value.

[greg4012]

I don't think Rozier is going to fetch much in the open market and would probably be more valuable to us as our 6th man rather then selling him short. After this year then Rozier becomes an expiring contract and will be a lot more valuable in trade talks. In the mean time let's get our 1st rd pick worth with having a scorer like him off the bench. It's not like he can't be paired with Mitchell at times either. Darius Garland was also a 6'1 guard. Having functional depth is also important and especially after we trade Herro, JJJ, and Duncan. Somebody is going to need to score off that bench.

Citing a build that was deficient isn't compelling.

In a playoff setting, I personally believe pairing Rozier and Mitchell in lineups is setting ourselves up for clear disadvantage. It becomes a waste of his skillset. We all see how the quality teams go on big runs as soon as a crucial player is subbed out in playoffs.

I'm sure it could work fine in regular season, but what good is that if the makeup of the team is flawed when it counts most?

I get it if we keep Rozier as 6th man in this hypo scenario. I just firmly believe it will mean he's not contributing to his potential beyond the 12 minutes he's running without Mitchell on the floor in the playoffs.

If we're re-working the roster for a last Jimmy push, I'm not a fan of marrying that to an obviously sub-optimal build. The whole point should be to get away from having $20M+ players being relegated to part time duty in the playoffs.

LeVert is actually best served running a bench unit IMO. He's theoretically 3&D but he's very frustrating if expected to operate as such.

If we can get a 3&D player anywhere from 2-4 that can be a steady rotation piece or a Jalen Smith/Larry Nance/Isaiah Stewart type that rounds out the roster in such a perfect way, we gotta strike. Sunk cost fallacy be damned.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[AirP.]

With this number being tossed out there for Monk (which is insane), it makes Herro's contract not look as bad. It just takes one team to be good with the price. Monk was signed by LAL for the min and then the Kings paid him 10 mil last year. At this current point in the NBA, I think anyone 25+ mil needs to be your 3rd best player or better and I don't see Monk being the 3rd best player for a championship team.

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To be fair teams need to spend a minimum amount per season with new CBA rules. And teams like Sixers Magic OKC have a bunch of cap space. OKC and Magic especially could use a scoring punch and have tons of young cheap contracts, so instead of giving a player like monk 4-80M they could be like yo come here for 2-50M and then hit the market again when cap is higher again etc. It's a win win for both Magic and Monk. Similar to what Houston did with FVV, overpaid but less years. But ofc someone paying Monk 25M ofc can only help Herro perceived value.

The rule has been around for a long time, teams have to spend 90% of the cap one way or another and if they don't the money on the players the difference is dispersed to the players on the roster, the owners don't keep that money. There's no reason to overspend on a player unless it's the last piece you need for a championship.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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If Mitchell extends this is still the top prize

[AirP.]

I wake up and Herro is trending on X for me with talk about possibly selling his home, this afternoon it was Pat Riley, had to go check to make sure the worst hadn't happened, seems Laker land is talking about JJ being compared to Pat Riley.

Spoiler:

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

Can JJ at least get a job before people start comparing him to the sleepiest GM in the league?! Gotta at least give the guy a chance.

[Daffy]

Bam 1st team all defense.

I just read Wemby is the first rookie to ever make 1st team all defense. This can't be real. I have to fact check it. It was hard enough for Bam to win DPOY now with Wemby out here as well it's going to be way harder.

[Kobewade11]

Bam 1st team all defense.

I just read Wemby is the first rookie to ever make 1st team all defense. This can't be real. I have to fact check it. It was hard enough for Bam to win DPOY now with Wemby out here as well it's going to be way harder.

He's never going to have the box score metrics that voters care about to win DPOY. Unless his agent pulls a Klutch and campaigns for votes we can forget about it.

[TroubleS0me]

Bam 1st team all defense.

I just read Wemby is the first rookie to ever make 1st team all defense. This can't be real. I have to fact check it. It was hard enough for Bam to win DPOY now with Wemby out here as well it's going to be way harder.

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[TroubleS0me]

Bam 1st team all defense.

I just read Wemby is the first rookie to ever make 1st team all defense. This can't be real. I have to fact check it. It was hard enough for Bam to win DPOY now with Wemby out here as well it's going to be way harder.

He's never going to have the box score metrics that voters care about to win DPOY. Unless his agent pulls a Klutch and campaigns for votes we can forget about it.

or the Heat need to be #1 Seed and #1 defensively.

[Kobewade11]

Bam 1st team all defense.

I just read Wemby is the first rookie to ever make 1st team all defense. This can't be real. I have to fact check it. It was hard enough for Bam to win DPOY now with Wemby out here as well it's going to be way harder.

He's never going to have the box score metrics that voters care about to win DPOY. Unless his agent pulls a Klutch and campaigns for votes we can forget about it.

or the Heat need to be #1 Seed and #1 defensively.

A few years back we were the #1 seed and I believe top 5 in defense and he finished below Smart, Bridges, and Gobert. The voters cater to the box score metrics and media darlings, if you don't fall into one of those categories you have to be someone that campaigns to the media on your own behalf because they are too casual to look beyond stat sheets and narratives. A big summer in Paris could help put him more on the casuals radar

[SoFlaKingReal]

Supposedly the Rockets will be a player in a potential Mitchell sweepstakes….most likely will be too much competition with better assets to offer for Heat to pull this one off.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Supposedly the Rockets will be a player in a potential Mitchell sweepstakes….most likely will be too much competition with better assets to offer for Heat to pull this one off.

Mitchell won’t want to go to the Rockets.