2025 Regular/Offseason Season Thread Vol. 10

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bosh was 3rd option here because he played behind Lebron and Wade.
Bam has been a 3rd option because he is a 3rd option.
Bosh was miles better offensively than Bam.

So surely if Bam and Bosh took the same amount of shots and had the same usage Bosh’s numbers would be much better correct?

I don't think they are similar enough to even compare.

Bosh was a natural scorer, and when he got here was an absolute clear number 3.


Bam still needs reps being "the guy". I wish they would have closed the season out with the 20+ attempt plan for Bam. They need to force Bam to be the alpha on offense.

People talk about Bam being a number 3 here....and I just can't 100% buy into that. Forget shot attempts, look at the offense...what is the offense trying to do...we have spent years spamming Duncan or some other random g-league guy. When it comes to "designed opportunity" rarely has the offense taken opportunity to showcase Bam. Certainly not in the same fashion we have seen for Jimmy, Tyler, let alone Duncan.

Bam was an inside guy on a team that spent years trying to be an outside shooting team. The outside guys might come and go Qtr to Qtr or game to game...but the plan was still the same...get a good outside shot.

I am sure this conversation is way more complicated than I want to make it, but if I was to think about what was the plan... I am sure Jimmy doing his iso, Herro getting his touches, Duncan getting his dribble hand-offs (or struss or whomever) happened often enough to honestly say Bam has had a significant amount of time/play design as a 4th or worst option.

Agreed 100%.

[contract]

If the team wanted to gamble big, could do Wiggins and Duncan for Paul George.

Would allow Mia to keep their picks and young players and still have Rozier's contract to go out and make another big move.

For Paul George and how many first round picks? Because it would take ALL of them.

[RexBoyWonder]

We can argue it until we’re blue in the face but the Heat will 100% be trying to get KD this summer. They will be throwing in offers for a lot of these stars that come available to see what they can get done. KD, Ja, Zion, Harden, etc. these are all deals that can be matched dollar wise pretty easily then it’s just determining the assets. There will be more to come out and want out as well, there always is.

Pat just isn’t going to sit around and do nothing after this **** show of a season. I don’t even think it’s because of the teams play, I think his ego can’t handle the Jimmy stuff and everyone saying “Pat was wrong” as Jimmy is killing it in Golden State. He’s going to be locked in

You're really overestimating a 80YO manger ability to pull rabbits out his hat.

Free agency is dead - that's one of the main reasons our roster has been underwhelming for years now. Free agency was a huge strength of this organization, and without it we generally lack the ability to add top talent because we did a bad job with asset management and we're never picking in the high lottery.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We can argue it until we’re blue in the face but the Heat will 100% be trying to get KD this summer. They will be throwing in offers for a lot of these stars that come available to see what they can get done. KD, Ja, Zion, Harden, etc. these are all deals that can be matched dollar wise pretty easily then it’s just determining the assets. There will be more to come out and want out as well, there always is.

Pat just isn’t going to sit around and do nothing after this **** show of a season. I don’t even think it’s because of the teams play, I think his ego can’t handle the Jimmy stuff and everyone saying “Pat was wrong” as Jimmy is killing it in Golden State. He’s going to be locked in

You're really overestimating a 80YO manger ability to pull rabbits out his hat.

Free agency is dead - that's one of the main reasons our roster has been underwhelming for years now. Free agency was a huge strength of this organization, and without it we generally lack the ability to add top talent because we did a bad job with asset management and we're never picking in the high lottery.

We actually have assets now though and I’ve been the most critical of Pat on this forum but I get the feeling he’s about have a big summer. Maybe I’m setting myself up for disappointment because I do agree, he is washed.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Should we trade for Jalen Green so he can rekindle his bond with Josh Christopher?

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Should we trade for Jalen Green so he can rekindle his bond with Josh Christopher?

Jalen Green not going anywhere and most likely Christopher has no future here. Especially after that over and back line stepping goof against the Wiz to end the year lol.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Should we trade for Jalen Green so he can rekindle his bond with Josh Christopher?

Jalen Green not going anywhere and most likely Christopher has no future here. Especially after that over and back line stepping goof against the Wiz to end the year lol.

Haha I know I’m just trolling, there was a video attached to the tweet of Jalen Green humping Christopher on a bed but my tweets are spazzing out right now for some reason

[MettaWorldPanda]

Was really hoping the Rockets would have beaten the Warriors. The move to get Durant will be loud this offseason for the Rockets. Will be interesting to see how the offers stack up against each other. Cam Whitmore vs JJJ and Jovic vs Tari Eason or Jabari Smith is what we could be looking at. Are the Rockets ready to move on from locker room leader FVV or do they move Dillion Brooks with some extra young assets.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Should we trade for Jalen Green so he can rekindle his bond with Josh Christopher?

Jalen Green not going anywhere and most likely Christopher has no future here. Especially after that over and back line stepping goof against the Wiz to end the year lol.

Haha I know I’m just trolling, there was a video attached to the tweet of Jalen Green humping Christopher on a bed but my tweets are spazzing out right now for some reason

Lol yeah i remember that hahahaha.

[greg4012]

Outperformed Bosh on offense? You go too far with these comments

Bam at his best is only close to Bosh in a 3rd man role while playing next to all time great scorers so his numbers were reduced. His last year in Toronto is better than anything Bam has ever done offensively. Whenever he played without the other stars Bosh would take it up a notch on offense and remind people what he could do.

I’m going to make some statements below, you tell me which of them are wrong and why back with something other than just an opinion:

1. Over the last 6 seasons Bam has averaged 19-10-4 on 13.4 shot attempts, 59.1TS% with a 23.8 usage rate. In the big 3 era Bosh averaged 17-7-2 on 13 shot attempts, 57.8TS% with a 23.2 usage rate. So with nearly the same shot attempts and usage rate Bam scored more, did it more efficiently (without the luxury of playing with 2 of the greatest passers the league has ever seen), and was more than twice the playmaker Bosh was (does passing not matter offensively any more?) So where exactly did Bosh outperform Bam offensively in the same role, or at least where it’s considered laughable to say?

2. Sure, in Toronto Bosh put up big numbers on bottom feeding teams cast as a 1st option with 17 shots a night. If you put Bam on the Wizards and told him he’s the 1st option and designed the playbook for him to score he would put up numbers too. Bosh also again had the luxury of playing with a very good playmaker in Calderon.

3. As for Bosh taking it up a notch when LeBron and Wade were out to remind people what he could do, in games without both Wade and LeBron Bosh averaged 24-9-4.5-1-1 on 51% shooting 17.3 shots a game. Bam without Jimmy and Herro averaged 23-10.5-6.5 on 57% shooting 15.8 shot attempts. Better than Bosh’s best season in Toronto but obviously on a smaller sample size than his entire season but goes to the point of Bam putting up numbers if he was in a Toronto Bosh role.

4. I agree that scoring is more fluid to Bosh, in large part to having several seasons on a bottom feeder where the scoring ran through him as the top option having a big help on his development there (it’s why I wanted all the actions ran for Herro/Bam post Jimmy to try and help them take a leap there) but if he was so much better offensively than Bam that it was laughable I would expect there to be a wider variance in their numbers in favor of Bosh considering they have the same amount of shot attempts and usage rate basically coupled with the fact that Bosh played with 2 of the greatest players and passers the league has ever seen who took tons of pressure off him. Instead the numbers actually favor Bam playmaking wise by a mile and even scoring wise. Hell even Bams 3 point shooting this year was better than any season Bosh had with the big 3 so I’m curious how Bosh outperformed Bam offensively

You are comparing Bosh while taking a back seat to Lebron and Wade vs Bam when everyone is begging him to be more assertive offensively. Bam has pretty much been the 2nd option the entire time to a guy in Jimmy who scored 20-22 a game (and now Tyler who scored a little more). 22 a game is what Wade as 2nd option averaged. That first season both Wade and Lebron were both over 25 a game. Bosh took a back seat to both of them and that is what you are comparing Bam to. Heat are also playing a higher pace during the Bam era than at any time during the Big 3 era.

Of course many of us have been saying that Bam should really be a 3rd option and not a top 1 or 2. If he were producing that in the 3rd man role behind to two elite offensive players then it may be comparable production.

Sounds like Bosh should have been the more efficient scorer of the 2 if that was the issue (which isn't the case). Tangible data vs impression vibes.

Do you place any value on creating offense for others as a contribution to offense?

[greg4012]

It’s possible for Rozier not to be involved. It’s also possible for Rozier to head to a team like Utah or the Wizards. Duncan’s contract is probably the contract they really want because it takes them out of the tax with 10 mil in savings. Duncan, Wiggins, Jovic, Pelle, 2025 and 2031 is the potential deal. Rozier and JJJ could be a secondary deal for someone like Marcus Smart that opens up extra cap savings to sign Mitchell.

This is how it roughly would look like:


If that was the deal, I’d hate it. They’d have 9 players. Terry, Love, and Jaquez are mostly useless. They’d need to sign 5 more players, and that would also mean they can’t afford Davion.

The Terry money is the real problem no matter how you slice it. It’ll cost to dump him on someone. I’d rather just waive Duncan, see if someone bites on Jaquez and that would be enough to make space to re-sign Davion and bring in some min. vets.
Maybe an opportunity opens to dump Terry or get into another deal to move him but just paying assets to dump his ass isn’t it, especially when you’re a mid team.

I honestly don't see the KD thing happening, looks like they are almost forced to run it back with Davion. It's not the worst just another developmental year, while they fix their cap, duck the tax and hopefully improve their assets.

I understand were you are coming from. Just think Riley is going to buy into the 2 year window with Durant and then retire. Sort of his last hurrah. BTW Rozier is expiring after 2025 and Kyle Anderson has a team option. That’s 35 million combined

I trend towards agreeing. THere is a big difference between something not being feasible and fans not liking it. The latter does not need to inform the former.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Was really hoping the Rockets would have beaten the Warriors. The move to get Durant will be loud this offseason for the Rockets. Will be interesting to see how the offers stack up against each other. Cam Whitmore vs JJJ and Jovic vs Tari Eason or Jabari Smith is what we could be looking at. Are the Rockets ready to move on from locker room leader FVV or do they move Dillion Brooks with some extra young assets.

I’m not sure it changes much. It was always going to be based on where KD wanted to be. Taking a good experienced team like the Warriors to 7 shows to me that the Rockets are on the right trajectory with their youth. I’m not sure they’d be super aggressive for KD (as Marc Stein has reported as well) and think if they were going to cash in on someone it would be for a younger star like Giannis or something who can be there long term with the young guys. They need Green and Sengun to take another step, for guys who are supposedly great offensive players they sure didn’t look like it in their 1st playoff appearance. Sengun needed to dominate the small warriors, I think they’ll improve next year

[MettaWorldPanda]

I hope the Rockets go after Zion Williamson instead. He fits there timeline a lot better and they won’t have to cough up there locker room leader in FVV to get him. He’s also on a very cut bait friendly contract. Rockets might be better off banking on Suns demise with those picks they hold.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Was really hoping the Rockets would have beaten the Warriors. The move to get Durant will be loud this offseason for the Rockets. Will be interesting to see how the offers stack up against each other. Cam Whitmore vs JJJ and Jovic vs Tari Eason or Jabari Smith is what we could be looking at. Are the Rockets ready to move on from locker room leader FVV or do they move Dillion Brooks with some extra young assets.

I’m not sure it changes much. It was always going to be based on where KD wanted to be. Taking a good experienced team like the Warriors to 7 shows to me that the Rockets are on the right trajectory with their youth. I’m not sure they’d be super aggressive for KD (as Marc Stein has reported as well) and think if they were going to cash in on someone it would be for a younger star like Giannis or something who can be there long term with the young guys. They need Green and Sengun to take another step, for guys who are supposedly great offensive players they sure didn’t look like it in their 1st playoff appearance. Sengun needed to dominate the small warriors, I think they’ll improve next year

I can see KD definitely wanting to be on the Rockets but the Rockets might be looking elsewhere. They have the young assets to go after a much younger star player. Rockets don’t have to bail out the Suns. This is what might play into our favor.

[greg4012]

Bosh was 3rd option here because he played behind Lebron and Wade.
Bam has been a 3rd option because he is a 3rd option.
Bosh was miles better offensively than Bam.

So surely if Bam and Bosh took the same amount of shots and had the same usage Bosh’s numbers would be much better correct?

I don't think they are similar enough to even compare.

Bosh was a natural scorer, and when he got here was an absolute clear number 3.


Bam still needs reps being "the guy". I wish they would have closed the season out with the 20+ attempt plan for Bam. They need to force Bam to be the alpha on offense.

People talk about Bam being a number 3 here....and I just can't 100% buy into that. Forget shot attempts, look at the offense...what is the offense trying to do...we have spent years spamming Duncan or some other random g-league guy. When it comes to "designed opportunity" rarely has the offense taken opportunity to showcase Bam. Certainly not in the same fashion we have seen for Jimmy, Tyler, let alone Duncan.

Bam was an inside guy on a team that spent years trying to be an outside shooting team. The outside guys might come and go Qtr to Qtr or game to game...but the plan was still the same...get a good outside shot.

I am sure this conversation is way more complicated than I want to make it, but if I was to think about what was the plan... I am sure Jimmy doing his iso, Herro getting his touches, Duncan getting his dribble hand-offs (or struss or whomever) happened often enough to honestly say Bam has had a significant amount of time/play design as a 4th or worst option.

Good perspective.

There is a lot of inherent facilitation by Bam in most of the non-Bam offense bolded above. IDK why everyone wants to ignore that part of the equation unless this is limited in scope to just being about creating offense for self. Even if that is the case, Bosh actually had a much higher percentage of his FGM during his time in Miami assisted than Bam. A ton of that is naturally a matter of Bosh playing with 2 of the premier perimeter creators in the NBA and Bam playing with the worst collection of perimeter creators in the NBA.

Chris Bosh is a more natural scorer than Bam. He had a baseline of being able to get to his steady looks and create more natural looking attempts in iso than Bam. The problem with Bosh as a #1 option is that while he can get to those looks, he (1) was never the most efficient scorer (see efg% comparisons between Bam and Bosh despite Bosh being better set up) and (2) he wasn't a great creator for others (which limited the impact/benefit of him going higher usage).

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Was really hoping the Rockets would have beaten the Warriors. The move to get Durant will be loud this offseason for the Rockets. Will be interesting to see how the offers stack up against each other. Cam Whitmore vs JJJ and Jovic vs Tari Eason or Jabari Smith is what we could be looking at. Are the Rockets ready to move on from locker room leader FVV or do they move Dillion Brooks with some extra young assets.

I’m not sure it changes much. It was always going to be based on where KD wanted to be. Taking a good experienced team like the Warriors to 7 shows to me that the Rockets are on the right trajectory with their youth. I’m not sure they’d be super aggressive for KD (as Marc Stein has reported as well) and think if they were going to cash in on someone it would be for a younger star like Giannis or something who can be there long term with the young guys. They need Green and Sengun to take another step, for guys who are supposedly great offensive players they sure didn’t look like it in their 1st playoff appearance. Sengun needed to dominate the small warriors, I think they’ll improve next year

I can see KD definitely wanting to be on the Rockets but the Rockets might be looking elsewhere. They have the young assets to go after a much younger star player. Rockets don’t have to bail out the Suns. This is what might play into our favor.

Rockets shouldn’t want to bail them out either, with their current youth and the potential of adding a star this summer, the Suns demise could be their ticket to sustaining a long term contender

[contract]

Might be time for a new Bosh vs. Bam poll.

Different players but Bosh all day

The biggest difference between the two is that Bam isn't as assertive or aggressive on the offensive end. Bosh may have taken a back seat to Lebron and Wade, but once he established himself there was no way he was taking a back seat to Andrea Bargnani. Bam will always have lesser players eating off his plate because he's not confrontational.

[greg4012]

Might be time for a new Bosh vs. Bam poll.

Different players but Bosh all day

The biggest difference between the two is that Bam isn't as assertive or aggressive on the offensive end. Bosh may have taken a back seat to Lebron and Wade, but once he established himself there was no way he was taking a back seat to Andrea Bargnani. Bam will always have lesser players eating off his plate because he's not confrontational.

And because he creates looks off his plate at a much higher rate than Bosh

[twix2500]

I've got to call it how I see it, depressing as it might be to some :

The most realistic scenario for this team with the current management is simple : They're going to be middling in the play in range for the next 2-3 years at least.

They're afraid to take chances, and they're scared to bottom out. At the same time there's no hero coming to save us - we don't have assets to get a real 1A offensive game changer. And we're not going to pick high in the draft either. The current roster combined with out lack of assets combined with the risk averse mentality of this front office leaves very little room for a drastic improvement.

So my recommendation to all my friends here is to take a deep breath, maybe take a step back, adjust your expectation - I think it's very likely we're not going to be a relevant team for the next few seasons. So we need to accept it, and try to enjoy the development of the kids, hope for some huge breaks in the draft or unexpected trades that become a steal for us.

It's normal for every organization to have some down years, To me the only frustrating part is that we didn't have to get here if we played our cards better the last few years. But we did a bad job building for a long while now IMO. investing in all the wrong ways.

And once we're stuck here - I'm 100% for blowing it up and rebuilding. I have no apatite for more play-in teams. I much rather go super young, add a few top 5 picks in the next 2-3 years, and take my chances with that rout. But it won't happen due to the reasons mentioned above.

Disappointing to me but that's where this front office is taking us. It is what it is. Pray for an unexpected miracle and accept it's not likely to happen. Enjoy the little things (I like Larsson).

I think the most likely scenario is that the Heat will keep adding young players as assets to trade. The older players like Robinson, Highsmith, Wiggins, and Rozier will be traded to create more flexibility and hopefully better trade chips. The goal is like what the Lakers did, draft players to eventually trade them for a star. I do not know how much the Heat really want to pursue Durant. I would be very surprised they go all in on a 37 year old player. Suns have shown they are a delusional bad franchise with this new ownership. Are they will to keep bleeding money and go bankrupt?

I would think they will use these expiring players contracts to get picks.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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