Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond...

[Beenie]

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Culture.

[goodboy]

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Culture.

Damn

I thought that was Cousins at first.

[Wiltside]

You mean that isn’t Cousins? If it’s not, dude is a dead ringer for him.

[3ballbomber]

I'm just going to keep saying what I've been saying for a year now... go get EMBIID to Miami to team up with Butler and yeah, I move Bam to make that happen. Embiid can be a top 5 player in the league in Miami's environment under Spo. A good coach(not a fan of B.Brown's) and that Philly roster from last year probably would have won the championship this year.

Just image this... instead of Embiid sitting at the 3 point line wasting his size, strength and skill as a stretch 5 because his main ball handler won't shoot outside of 10 feet allowing his defender to cheat inside, Embiid playing Bam's role, you lose that pick and roll alley oop and Bam's switch-ability but you gain a WAY more skilled offensive player and a guy who would be a dominate rim protector.

I do fear that this is the only offseason he'll be available(although maybe Rivers will stop any chance of moving Embiid), with B.Brown gone I suspect Embiid will be utilized much better than he has been and with that, upping his current value.

Sorry, Z.Lowe and B.Simmons on today's Lowe Post mention Embiid in shape is possibly a top 3 player in the league and there's probably only a few teams that will make sure Embiid stays in shape, Miami to me being one of those teams.

I want Biid' as bad as you do but I'm not willing to give up Bam for him. Joel is too injury prone and although he can play like the best C in the league at times, we'll miss a lot of what Bam brings in the passing, pick and roll defense and the lobs (like you stated).

Bam's jumper has improved each and every season in the league, and it should continue to get better as time goes on. He may never be as gifted of an offensive scorer Embiid is, but we don't necessarily need him to be.

Adebayo is a lifer' in my book.

Spoiler:

If you wouldn't upgrade(imo) Bam to Embiid then obviously you don't want Embiid nearly as badly as I do. 2 things, 1, I believe the ceiling of Embiid surpasses Bam's ceiling by a good amount and the 2nd is Embiid and Bam should be playing the same spot on the floor, the 5. If you can get Embiid without giving up Butler or Bam great but I don't think that's happening plus you'd have 3 average and below 3pt shooters on the court way too often.

Pros of Embiid over Bam.
- Better outside shooting.
- Better low post scoring.
- Has a scorer's mentality.
- Actually can be a go to scorer at the end of games.
- A dominate rim protector.
- Size alone makes him a mismatch nearly every night on both ends.

Pros of Bam over Embiid.
- Better passer.
- Able to initiate the offense.
- Better switch-ability on defense.
- Better pick an roller.
- Can play a much faster pace.

Bam is one of the top bigs in the league, there's only a few player's I'd consider moving Bam for and I believe Embiid is one of those few players. Not the Embiid we've seen in Philly but the Embiid you'd get with him in Miami.

After watching the last 2 playoffs, I think Butler and Embiid are a much more deadly combo then Butler and Bam is. Last year's Philly team probably beat's the Lakers pretty easily in the finals this year, it still boggles my mind they didn't keep that team together.

The plan is to acquire players that'll play beside Bam, Duncan & Herro. Our future is in these young guns. Unless they start to regress in the next season wld be the only reason we think of moving them.

The idea is to have players excited to play w/ these guys as incentive of coming here, knowing we have this core talent they can compliment & in turn put the team over the top. Players like Giannis or Embiid will come here knowing they play beside Bam as a big-1-2-punch, understanding he is one of our main strengths. You take away Bam, you take away a significant part of our identity & this team.

I'd much rather a player like Ibaka, than say Giannis, if it means giving up Bam. When you also consider we were 2gm's away frm winning a Championship w/ a hobbled Bam & no Dragic....we may not necessarily need a player like Giannis. Perhaps we just need several blue collar worker type players that can address holes, buy in to the culture & don't necessarily need to be all-star caliber.

If we can somehow keep most, if not all, the players mentioned until 2021 that will make us even more dangerous & with a far wider window of contending.

[Beenie]

Watch on YouTube

Culture.

Damn

I thought that was Cousins at first.

That's actually Jimmy's cousin on his mom's side. His name is Brothers.

[Wiltside]

I can see the argument for and against trading Bam for Embiid.

On the Embiid side, he's massive, legit 7 foot monster who COULD be a Top 5 player in the league. He can be dominant on both ends. Is fragile and durability concerns are well founded. Had a down year but at his best is 25/12 a night.

On the Bam side, he's 23 and growing into a star before our eyes. Could be anything. Is probably already a Top 20 player and climbing. Dominant defensively, offensively he's our hub and makes other players better (e.g. Duncan). If he adds a jump shot, he's basically a lesser Garnett which is a pretty damn nice player to build around. Plus Spo loves him and he's culture all day.

In the end, we probably err on the side of caution and don't make a trade for Joel at this time. That may be reassessed if Giannis does end up signing a supermax and our window creeps shorter, but I think it makes sense to continue to build around Jimmy, Bam, Herro and 2021 max FA space. Hell, we just went to Game 6 of the NBA Finals without Dragic - we were close.

Trading Bam for Embiid would hinder our ability to add a 2021 max FA to join Jimmy and Joel, and likely costs us atleast one of Herro or Duncan. As much as I like Joel, I don't think I could do it.

[HeatIn5]

So the report is Oladipos value is low.

I really wonder if Nunn, Kelly and a heavily protected future 1st could get the job done.

[Wiltside]

So the report is Oladipos value is low.

I really wonder if Nunn, Kelly and a heavily protected future 1st could get the job done.

I mean, when you look at it in a vaccum...

Player 1 (19 games): 14.5ppg, 3.9rpg, 2.9apg, 0.9spg, 0.2bpg, 2.5tpg, 27.8mpg, 39.4%fg (5.1/12.9), 31.7% 3fg (1.7/5.5) and 81.4%ft (2.5/3.1)
Player 2 (67 games): 15.3ppg, 2.7rpg, 3.3apg, 0.8spg, 0.2bpg, 1.7tpg, 29.3mpg, 43.9%fg (6.0/13.6), 35.0% 3fg (2.0/5.8) and 85.0%ft (1.3/1.5)

Player 1 is 28yrs old, a former 2 time All-Star and suffered significant injuries over the past couple years. He is also earning $21m next season and then out of contract and expecting the last big payday of his career.

Player 2 is 25yrs old and on a minimum contract. He will be a RFA at the end of next season and will be looking for his first payday.

Are they really going to expect much more than that based on current production?

[AirP.]

The plan is to acquire players that'll play beside Bam, Duncan & Herro. Our future is in these young guns. Unless they start to regress in the next season wld be the only reason we think of moving them.

The idea is to have players excited to play w/ these guys as incentive of coming here, knowing we have this core talent they can compliment & in turn put the team over the top. Players like Giannis or Embiid will come here knowing they play beside Bam as a big-1-2-punch, understanding he is one of our main strengths. You take away Bam, you take away a significant part of our identity & this team.

I'd much rather a player like Ibaka, than say Giannis, if it means giving up Bam. When you also consider we were 2gm's away frm winning a Championship w/ a hobbled Bam & no Dragic....we may not necessarily need a player like Giannis. Perhaps we just need several blue collar worker type players that can address holes, buy in to the culture & don't necessarily need to be all-star caliber.

If we can somehow keep most, if not all, the players mentioned until 2021 that will make us even more dangerous & with a far wider window of contending.

Until Bam gets a solid 3pt shot, I wouldn't play another bad shooting big with Bam, especially with Butler being one of the other 4 players on the court. The league is coming down to 1 defensive big that can rim protect and 3+ 3pt shooters with 1-2 guys who can break down a defense and utilize the space created by the shooters.

Playoff basketball is what counts to me, Bam and Butler were +6.0 points per 100 possessions this playoffs. Last year Embiid and Butler were +24.0 per 100 possessions in the playoffs. Philly just didn't have a bench because of bad Harris trade... and were dumb enough to not do everything they could to keep Butler in Philly.

Not arguing that Bam isn't one of the top bigs in this league, I'm arguing that there are a few better ones, especially in a slower playoff type game and I'm also arguing that Embiid in Miami with Spo as his coach will make him an even better player.

[Chalm Down]

I don't think a big can be a top 5 player today, I only assume Giannis to be one cause of the uncertainty of KD's health

Biid's better than Bam but I wouldn't be in a rush to make that deal(unless supermax makes Bam's contract look identical, which would make it a much more difficult trade to facilitate without an asset like Jerri attached and I wouldn't do Herro/Bam for Biid)

I agree, hard to see a post player leading you to a chip with today's rules

Bam shows up with new tricks in his bag every year and surpasses even my highest expectations. I want to see what he can do with the jumpshot next

[puppa bear]

So the report is Oladipos value is low.

I really wonder if Nunn, Kelly and a heavily protected future 1st could get the job done.

I mean, when you look at it in a vaccum...

Player 1 (19 games): 14.5ppg, 3.9rpg, 2.9apg, 0.9spg, 0.2bpg, 2.5tpg, 27.8mpg, 39.4%fg (5.1/12.9), 31.7% 3fg (1.7/5.5) and 81.4%ft (2.5/3.1)
Player 2 (67 games): 15.3ppg, 2.7rpg, 3.3apg, 0.8spg, 0.2bpg, 1.7tpg, 29.3mpg, 43.9%fg (6.0/13.6), 35.0% 3fg (2.0/5.8) and 85.0%ft (1.3/1.5)

Player 1 is 28yrs old, a former 2 time All-Star and suffered significant injuries over the past couple years. He is also earning $21m next season and then out of contract and expecting the last big payday of his career.

Player 2 is 25yrs old and on a minimum contract. He will be a RFA at the end of next season and will be looking for his first payday.

Are they really going to expect much more than that based on current production?

When you line them up like that you may question why even trade Nunn for Dipo.

Reality is Dipo is a two-way player who does what he does on O as a first or second option. Playing the same role as Nunn would see his numbers rise back to his pre-injury numbers, or even closer to his 2017-18 numbers. Last year was his worst 3p% year and his second worst fg% year.

If we can get him for Nunn/filler then to me it’s a definite. If it’s going to cost more than an extra pick then no bueno.

[IggieCC]

hmm Oladipo and Nunn + fillers swap seems reasonable to me. Nunn could absolutely be Oladipo lite and at the very least he's healthy.

tendon raptures have ended many players careers but it's worth taking a chance

[IggieCC]

You mean that isn’t Cousins? If it’s not, dude is a dead ringer for him.

it's him but the video is from 2016. probably team USA?


Cousins for vet min is a no brainer to me. he might be enticed for the fact that we could really use his help and if it doesn't work out it's okay too. I suspect that he's going back to the Lakers though

[3ballbomber]

The plan is to acquire players that'll play beside Bam, Duncan & Herro. Our future is in these young guns. Unless they start to regress in the next season wld be the only reason we think of moving them.

The idea is to have players excited to play w/ these guys as incentive of coming here, knowing we have this core talent they can compliment & in turn put the team over the top. Players like Giannis or Embiid will come here knowing they play beside Bam as a big-1-2-punch, understanding he is one of our main strengths. You take away Bam, you take away a significant part of our identity & this team.

I'd much rather a player like Ibaka, than say Giannis, if it means giving up Bam. When you also consider we were 2gm's away frm winning a Championship w/ a hobbled Bam & no Dragic....we may not necessarily need a player like Giannis. Perhaps we just need several blue collar worker type players that can address holes, buy in to the culture & don't necessarily need to be all-star caliber.

If we can somehow keep most, if not all, the players mentioned until 2021 that will make us even more dangerous & with a far wider window of contending.

Until Bam gets a solid 3pt shot, I wouldn't play another bad shooting big with Bam, especially with Butler being one of the other 4 players on the court. The league is coming down to 1 defensive big that can rim protect and 3+ 3pt shooters with 1-2 guys who can break down a defense and utilize the space created by the shooters.

Playoff basketball is what counts to me, Bam and Butler were +6.0 points per 100 possessions this playoffs. Last year Embiid and Butler were +24.0 per 100 possessions in the playoffs. Philly just didn't have a bench because of bad Harris trade... and were dumb enough to not do everything they could to keep Butler in Philly.

Not arguing that Bam isn't one of the top bigs in this league, I'm arguing that there are a few better ones, especially in a slower playoff type game and I'm also arguing that Embiid in Miami with Spo as his coach will make him an even better player.

I agree w/ the impact Embiid cld have here but I'd prefer us to stay patient w/ the development of Bam. Being so young, only 3yrs in the league & has already elevated his game in that time. I anticipate improvements in his jump shot, which wld further be a game changer & may even develop a 3pt shot. We'd nvr know if we decide to let him go. The plan is building around Bam & having players who further compliments his game. He is absolutely the hub & centerpiece of our team.

[IggieCC]

the prospect of us becoming a rehab center for injured brand name players though...

that's not very Culture tbh

[puppa bear]

the prospect of us becoming a rehab center for injured brand name players though...

that's not very Culture tbh

True, but Boogie was always Heat Culture away from being a top-2 C in the league.

I wanted him badly coming out of Kentucky and would have been willing a pretty dumb trade to get him. There has always been a gritty side to how he played, you could see it at Kentucky. The Kings allowed it to turn into spoilt brat behaviour, not having Culture, and the rest is history.

If he willingly buys into what he’s seen (the crazy early practices, team first mentality, etc) then I 100% want him. If not, then he’s too far gone and the Lakers can have him.

[IggieCC]

the prospect of us becoming a rehab center for injured brand name players though...

that's not very Culture tbh

True, but Boogie was always Heat Culture away from being a top-2 C in the league.

I wanted him badly coming out of Kentucky and would have been willing a pretty dumb trade to get him. There has always been a gritty side to how he played, you could see it at Kentucky. The Kings allowed it to turn into spoilt brat behaviour, not having Culture, and the rest is history.

If he willingly buys into what he’s seen (the crazy early practices, team first mentality, etc) then I 100% want him. If not, then he’s too far gone and the Lakers can have him.

absolutely. that's exactly how he blew up all the rest of healthy parts of his legs after coming back from the achilles. that guy competes very hard. i believe he tore his quad chasing after a loose ball. ACL was a freak injury but he was probably playing too many pickup games that off-szn right after the torn quad.

i have no doubt he'll do his best trying to fit in here if he''s signed. we just have to accept the fact that there is a good chance that it's going to be a wasted roster spot going in (which is fine by me)

[RexBoyWonder]

For the vet min I'd roll the dice on pretty much anyone, Boggie included.

But the chance of him becoming a difference maker here at this stage are non existence. You don't become healthier as you get older, and even healthy boogie was never a winning player TBH. He's slow as ****, very inconsistent with his shot, I don't see it.

We need an efficient, healthy, stable, shooting big. Not a broken former "star" that never won trying to reestablish his value.

[Wiltside]

We had interest in Cousins before the restart, so I’d imagine we’ve been tracking his progress pretty closely.

Honestly, he’d be a good fit here. He does provide a lot of what we need (not everything, but a lot), would be cheap and give us some much needed size. He’s obviously tight with Jimmy too based on that video, so Jimmy’s endorsement would go a long way to bringing him in.

I’d be keen to find out, and I imagine Riley would be too. He loves a reclamation project.

Reports are that Giannis is unlikely to sign the supermax and they’ll go into 2020-21 as a potential last hurrah it seems. Big opportunity for us there, we have to have the space to do it. Would set us up for the next 4-5 years at minimum to be a strong contender.

If we swing a deal for Dipo, sign Goran and Jae to 1yr deals, we could go into 2020-21:

Oladipo / Dragic / Vincent
Robinson / Herro
Butler / Igoudala?
Crowder / Okpala
Adebayo / Cousins / Leonard?

Not bad. We’d give the Eastern Conference a good shake again.

I’m intrigued to see how we respond to not being a surprise team next year. Different mindset going from underrated to the hunted. Hoping this run gives our guys a huge confidence injection. We are going to need a lot of internal growth next year.

[Bishop45]

For the vet min I'd roll the dice on pretty much anyone, Boggie included.

But the chance of him becoming a difference maker here at this stage are non existence. You don't become healthier as you get older, and even healthy boogie was never a winning player TBH. He's slow as ****, very inconsistent with his shot, I don't see it.

We need an efficient, healthy, stable, shooting big. Not a broken former "star" that never won trying to reestablish his value.

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