Miami Heat 2023/2024 Regular Season - Thread 3.0

[twix2500]

Basketball-Reference

Tyler Herro
106 OffRtg, 114 DefRtg

Duncan Robinson
118 OffRtg, 117 DefRtg

[dshearn]

TBH -

How willing are you to blow it all up?

Personally....

I have already mentally switched to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline.

That is what I am watching and rooting for.

We know what playoff Jimmy can give us, we just have to have internal growth to the point the team can help him. I don't know how much faith I have that Tyler is going to be the engine that can carry this team as Jimmy ages.


We are going on back to back seasons this team looks questionable during the regular season..... I honestly expected Tyler to be the dude who carried the team game in and game out....and I just don't know if he is up to it.

I hope Jimmy retires with the Heat, and he is on the bench for years like UD was.....but honestly I am open to anything that adds functional parts to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline....

[SA37]

Basketball-Reference

Tyler Herro
106 OffRtg, 114 DefRtg

Duncan Robinson
118 OffRtg, 117 DefRtg

These types of stats are misleading.

Herro is clearly a superior player to Robinson. Robinson has really improved and he is having his best statistical season since 20-21, but he is a limited player on both ends of the court. The issue with Herro, imo, is really about fit -- and there is an argument that Robinson has been a better fit this season.

I've berated the point that Herro won't take it to the next level until he can consistently get to the line (5+ fpg). You look at guards who are stars or perennial All-stars, like Booker (7 ftpg), D Mitchell (6.2), Curry (5.7), Morant (7.1), Lillard (8) versus borderline All-stars and below, like Lavine (4.1), Rozier (4.4), Clarkson (3.9 ), J Brown (4.4)...etc and it's clear who the big difference makers are.

[RexBoyWonder]

TBH -

How willing are you to blow it all up?

Personally....

I have already mentally switched to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline.

That is what I am watching and rooting for.

We know what playoff Jimmy can give us, we just have to have internal growth to the point the team can help him. I don't know how much faith I have that Tyler is going to be the engine that can carry this team as Jimmy ages.


We are going on back to back seasons this team looks questionable during the regular season..... I honestly expected Tyler to be the dude who carried the team game in and game out....and I just don't know if he is up to it.

I hope Jimmy retires with the Heat, and he is on the bench for years like UD was.....but honestly I am open to anything that adds functional parts to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline....

\


Well I'm over the Idea that Herro/Jimmy/Bam trio can bring enough offense to win a ring. They can't. Herro and Bam aren't enough as the 2/3 options.

I think IT MIGHT work if we add a 4th piece that at least on offense is their equal. Rozier if by some miracle can keep his current stats, is even better then Herro on offense.

Our only chance is an ENSEMBLE approach - Having 4 guys that can consistently score, with enough role player around them (Duncan, JJJ).

I'm a bit concerned about Herro's overall impact. In my eyes he sometimes looks like the opposite JJJ/Jovic - while those guys somehow find the way to help you win despite not always puttiung up impressive numbers, Herro often looks like fools gold - he's having big stats games but isn't really driving winning.

I do wonder if a bigger change in needed. Not only upgrading Lowry to a legit PG, but also prompting Duncan (who's a very good fit as a role player next to our 2 best players) to be a starter and fliping Herro for a scoring starting PF like a Jermey Grant for example.

Current lineup :

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Jovic
Bam

New Lineup :

Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
Grant
Bam

I think the second lineup would DESTROY that first lineup.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Herro not getting traded cause the team ain’t getting what they want for him. In the offseason the rumor was BK willing to give up some picks for him. You guys say he sucks but then he’s only able to be traded for a star.

Why would a team give up their star player for Herro making 27-30 million a year when they could just get an expiring and picks and draft a cheaper version of Herro. Tyler is going to be in a Heat uniform for a long while.

The team has to get its rotation and roster construction in order. The positionless basketball stuff has met its limits. Herro’s role needs to change and by that making him more into a spot up Reddick type instead of forcing star duties on him. Rozier needs to step in and take over the primary playmaking and scoring role. Everything else will fall into place.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Basketball-Reference

Tyler Herro
106 OffRtg, 114 DefRtg

Duncan Robinson
118 OffRtg, 117 DefRtg

These types of stats are misleading.

Herro is clearly a superior player to Robinson. Robinson has really improved and he is having his best statistical season since 20-21, but he is a limited player on both ends of the court. The issue with Herro, imo, is really about fit -- and there is an argument that Robinson has been a better fit this season.

I've berated the point that Herro won't take it to the next level until he can consistently get to the line (5+ fpg). You look at guards who are stars or perennial All-stars, like Booker (7 ftpg), D Mitchell (6.2), Curry (5.7), Morant (7.1), Lillard (8) versus borderline All-stars and below, like Lavine (4.1), Rozier (4.4), Clarkson (3.9 ), J Brown (4.4)...etc and it's clear who the big difference makers are.

Robinson may not be the better overall player but he’s the better winning player and that’s what we need.

As for the free throws, he definitely needs to increase them but those guys you mentioned above 5 are far, far superior players than Herro outside of just that.

I like that you mentioned Clarkson, I feel that’s what Herro is pretty close to. If you have Clarkson Herros usage and shot attempts you’d basically get the same results

[MettaWorldPanda]

TBH -

How willing are you to blow it all up?

Personally....

I have already mentally switched to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline.

That is what I am watching and rooting for.

We know what playoff Jimmy can give us, we just have to have internal growth to the point the team can help him. I don't know how much faith I have that Tyler is going to be the engine that can carry this team as Jimmy ages.


We are going on back to back seasons this team looks questionable during the regular season..... I honestly expected Tyler to be the dude who carried the team game in and game out....and I just don't know if he is up to it.

I hope Jimmy retires with the Heat, and he is on the bench for years like UD was.....but honestly I am open to anything that adds functional parts to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline....

\


Well I'm over the Idea that Herro/Jimmy/Bam trio can bring enough offense to win a ring. They can't. Herro and Bam aren't enough as the 2/3 options.

I think IT MIGHT work if we add a 4th piece that at least on offense is their equal. Rozier if by some miracle can keep his current stats, is even better then Herro on offense.

Our only chance is an ENSEMBLE approach - Having 4 guys that can consistently score, with enough role player around them (Duncan, JJJ).

I'm a bit concerned about Herro's overall impact. In my eyes he sometimes looks like the opposite JJJ/Jovic - while those guys somehow find the way to help you win despite not always puttiung up impressive numbers, Herro often looks like fools gold - he's having big stats games but isn't really driving winning.

I do wonder if a bigger change in needed. Not only upgrading Lowry to a legit PG, but also prompting Duncan (who's a very good fit as a role player next to our 2 best players) to be a starter and fliping Herro for a scoring starting PF like a Jermey Grant for example.

Current lineup :

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Jovic
Bam

New Lineup :

Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
Grant
Bam

I think the second lineup would DESTROY that first lineup.

I’m assuming you’re dealing Herro to the Blazers here which is not realistic. Blazers rebuffed any notion of wanting Herro as they are tied with Simons contract at the two spot and already have young cheap options at the two.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

TBH -

How willing are you to blow it all up?

Personally....

I have already mentally switched to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline.

That is what I am watching and rooting for.

We know what playoff Jimmy can give us, we just have to have internal growth to the point the team can help him. I don't know how much faith I have that Tyler is going to be the engine that can carry this team as Jimmy ages.


We are going on back to back seasons this team looks questionable during the regular season..... I honestly expected Tyler to be the dude who carried the team game in and game out....and I just don't know if he is up to it.

I hope Jimmy retires with the Heat, and he is on the bench for years like UD was.....but honestly I am open to anything that adds functional parts to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline....

\


Well I'm over the Idea that Herro/Jimmy/Bam trio can bring enough offense to win a ring. They can't. Herro and Bam aren't enough as the 2/3 options.

I think IT MIGHT work if we add a 4th piece that at least on offense is their equal. Rozier if by some miracle can keep his current stats, is even better then Herro on offense.

Our only chance is an ENSEMBLE approach - Having 4 guys that can consistently score, with enough role player around them (Duncan, JJJ).

I'm a bit concerned about Herro's overall impact. In my eyes he sometimes looks like the opposite JJJ/Jovic - while those guys somehow find the way to help you win despite not always puttiung up impressive numbers, Herro often looks like fools gold - he's having big stats games but isn't really driving winning.

I do wonder if a bigger change in needed. Not only upgrading Lowry to a legit PG, but also prompting Duncan (who's a very good fit as a role player next to our 2 best players) to be a starter and fliping Herro for a scoring starting PF like a Jermey Grant for example.

Current lineup :

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Jovic
Bam

New Lineup :

Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
Grant
Bam

I think the second lineup would DESTROY that first lineup.

The second lineup would for sure be better, not even close but from an asset management and salary perspective you can’t trade Herro for Grant anymore.

Before this contract id been saying for a couple years now if you traded Herro for Grant and started Duncan/Strus we would be exponentially better. Which may have let to a championship but who knows, can’t make that trade now though. Blazers handed him a horrible contract

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

This stretch of games before the trade deadline is either going to make DJM worth 3 picks or finally get teams willing to send 2 out for him. The kicker is we still have the big expiring that could be our trump card depending on who wants to get him

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

It will forever and always be…..FUXK Paul Pierce!!!!

[MettaWorldPanda]

Herro’s value to Riley is a lot more than what the league is going to give. Hornets don’t want his salary and neither do the Hawks or else why would they be looking to dump better players making even less? BK could be a possibility but is Riley willing to say Herro was a mistake and cash him in for expiring's like Dinwiddie and fillers? Or maybe DFS as the other piece? That’s pretty much what were looking at

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

This stretch of games before the trade deadline is either going to make DJM worth 3 picks or finally get teams willing to send 2 out for him. The kicker is we still have the big expiring that could be our trump card depending on who wants to get him

Other teams have big expiring’s too. Not the only show in town with that.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It does suck that the blazers are complete idiots and made their already horrible offseason worse by giving Grant the contract they gave him. If he was making like $18M-$20M a year we could work out a deal for him and Brogdon with our expirings and picks and completely take the team to another level.

We’d have our PG we need and our 4. Grant is a good defender and averages 22 PPG shooting 41% from 3 on 6 attempts.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

This stretch of games before the trade deadline is either going to make DJM worth 3 picks or finally get teams willing to send 2 out for him. The kicker is we still have the big expiring that could be our trump card depending on who wants to get him

Other teams have big expiring’s too. Not the only show in town with that.

Yep it’s just going to depend on who’s willing to step up to the plate. The teams that would worry me are the Net Spurs and Knicks. They have expirings and picks

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

This stretch of games before the trade deadline is either going to make DJM worth 3 picks or finally get teams willing to send 2 out for him. The kicker is we still have the big expiring that could be our trump card depending on who wants to get him

Other teams have big expiring’s too. Not the only show in town with that.

Yep it’s just going to depend on who’s willing to step up to the plate. The teams that would worry me are the Net Spurs and Knicks. They have expirings and picks

Yup you nailed the big 3. Would you be willing to trade Herro and Martin for Dinwiddie, DFS, and pick?

[RexBoyWonder]

Personally....

I have already mentally switched to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline.

That is what I am watching and rooting for.

We know what playoff Jimmy can give us, we just have to have internal growth to the point the team can help him. I don't know how much faith I have that Tyler is going to be the engine that can carry this team as Jimmy ages.


We are going on back to back seasons this team looks questionable during the regular season..... I honestly expected Tyler to be the dude who carried the team game in and game out....and I just don't know if he is up to it.

I hope Jimmy retires with the Heat, and he is on the bench for years like UD was.....but honestly I am open to anything that adds functional parts to the Bam/Jovic/JJJ timeline....

\


Well I'm over the Idea that Herro/Jimmy/Bam trio can bring enough offense to win a ring. They can't. Herro and Bam aren't enough as the 2/3 options.

I think IT MIGHT work if we add a 4th piece that at least on offense is their equal. Rozier if by some miracle can keep his current stats, is even better then Herro on offense.

Our only chance is an ENSEMBLE approach - Having 4 guys that can consistently score, with enough role player around them (Duncan, JJJ).

I'm a bit concerned about Herro's overall impact. In my eyes he sometimes looks like the opposite JJJ/Jovic - while those guys somehow find the way to help you win despite not always puttiung up impressive numbers, Herro often looks like fools gold - he's having big stats games but isn't really driving winning.

I do wonder if a bigger change in needed. Not only upgrading Lowry to a legit PG, but also prompting Duncan (who's a very good fit as a role player next to our 2 best players) to be a starter and fliping Herro for a scoring starting PF like a Jermey Grant for example.

Current lineup :

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Jovic
Bam

New Lineup :

Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
Grant
Bam

I think the second lineup would DESTROY that first lineup.

I’m assuming you’re dealing Herro to the Blazers here which is not realistic. Blazers rebuffed any notion of wanting Herro as they are tied with Simons contract at the two spot and already have young cheap options at the two.

Use a third team.

Nets get Herro
Heat get Jerami Grant
Blazers get Royce O'Neale + Spencer Dinwiddie

Add SRP to whichever party you feel deserve one


I'm not even sure if it's needed, maybe Rozier and Herro can really mesh, Maybe Duncan can be effective off the bench, maybe Herro gets moved back to 6th man role, Maybe Jovic is fast-tracked with more playing time..

But I feel a change is needed. The on court chemistry just isn't working ATM.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro’s value to Riley is a lot more than what the league is going to give. Hornets don’t want his salary and neither do the Hawks or else why would they be looking to dump better players making even less? BK could be a possibility but is Riley willing to say Herro was a mistake and cash him in for expiring's like Dinwiddie and fillers? Or maybe DFS as the other piece? That’s pretty much what were looking at

I do see Brooklyn as a good future fit if we need to reroute Herro for additional assets. That’s if they don’t buy in to Cam Thomas who is basically Herro but 2 years younger

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Other teams have big expiring’s too. Not the only show in town with that.

Yep it’s just going to depend on who’s willing to step up to the plate. The teams that would worry me are the Net Spurs and Knicks. They have expirings and picks

Yup you nailed the big 3. Would you be willing to trade Herro and Martin for Dinwiddie, DFS, and pick?

I would definitely think about it. Would we still be sending out Lowry and pick(s) elsewhere for another upgrade? Does this put us in different conversations for a higher level star with the additional picks and expirings now? That would give us Lowry/Dinwiddie expirings and at least 4 1sts to trade

[MettaWorldPanda]

Herro’s value to Riley is a lot more than what the league is going to give. Hornets don’t want his salary and neither do the Hawks or else why would they be looking to dump better players making even less? BK could be a possibility but is Riley willing to say Herro was a mistake and cash him in for expiring's like Dinwiddie and fillers? Or maybe DFS as the other piece? That’s pretty much what were looking at

I do see Brooklyn as a good future fit if we need to reroute Herro for additional assets. That’s if they don’t buy in to Cam Thomas who is basically Herro but 2 years younger

Nets have always been the logical landing spot for Herro. I would be shocked though if Riley does something drastic like this for his boy wonder. I think he’s more likely to ask Butler if he wants to be traded next year and they reboot around the kids.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

\


Well I'm over the Idea that Herro/Jimmy/Bam trio can bring enough offense to win a ring. They can't. Herro and Bam aren't enough as the 2/3 options.

I think IT MIGHT work if we add a 4th piece that at least on offense is their equal. Rozier if by some miracle can keep his current stats, is even better then Herro on offense.

Our only chance is an ENSEMBLE approach - Having 4 guys that can consistently score, with enough role player around them (Duncan, JJJ).

I'm a bit concerned about Herro's overall impact. In my eyes he sometimes looks like the opposite JJJ/Jovic - while those guys somehow find the way to help you win despite not always puttiung up impressive numbers, Herro often looks like fools gold - he's having big stats games but isn't really driving winning.

I do wonder if a bigger change in needed. Not only upgrading Lowry to a legit PG, but also prompting Duncan (who's a very good fit as a role player next to our 2 best players) to be a starter and fliping Herro for a scoring starting PF like a Jermey Grant for example.

Current lineup :

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Jovic
Bam

New Lineup :

Rozier
Duncan
Jimmy
Grant
Bam

I think the second lineup would DESTROY that first lineup.

I’m assuming you’re dealing Herro to the Blazers here which is not realistic. Blazers rebuffed any notion of wanting Herro as they are tied with Simons contract at the two spot and already have young cheap options at the two.

Use a third team.

Nets get Herro
Heat get Jerami Grant
Blazers get Royce O'Neale + Spencer Dinwiddie

Add SRP to whichever party you feel deserve one


I'm not even sure if it's needed, maybe Rozier and Herro can really mesh, Maybe Duncan can be effective off the bench, maybe Herro gets moved back to 6th man role, Maybe Jovic is fast-tracked with more playing time..

But I feel a change is needed. The on court chemistry just isn't working ATM.

He’s signed for 5/$160M. He would be an amazing 4th piece here but you just can’t pay that for a player of his level.