Off-Season Thread 17: New Beginnings #HEATLifers

[dancing2thabeet]

Rio/Cole/Napier/Johnson
Wade/Brown/Williams (R)/Dawkins
Deng/Granger/Ennis/
McBob/Haslem/Williams (S)/Jones
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton/Birch

So with Blatche and Crawford leaving for China, our last roster spot will probably belong to somebody undrafted, a d-leaguer or washed up veteran, neither of which probably makes the team. So after the training camp, who are the 15 you want to see heading into the season?

[Myam333]

Rio/Cole/Napier/Johnson
Wade/Brown/Williams (R)/Dawkins
Deng/Granger/Ennis/
McBob/Haslem/Williams (S)/Jones
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton/Birch

So with Blatche and Crawford leaving for China, our last roster spot will probably belong to somebody undrafted, a d-leaguer or washed up veteran, neither of which probably makes the team. So after the training camp, who are the 15 you want to see heading into the season?

Rio/Cole/Napier
Wade/Brown/Williams (Johnson overseas)
Deng/Granger/Ennis
McRoberts/Haslem/Williams
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton

[dancing2thabeet]

Rio/Cole/Napier/Johnson
Wade/Brown/Williams (R)/Dawkins
Deng/Granger/Ennis/
McBob/Haslem/Williams (S)/Jones
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton/Birch

So with Blatche and Crawford leaving for China, our last roster spot will probably belong to somebody undrafted, a d-leaguer or washed up veteran, neither of which probably makes the team. So after the training camp, who are the 15 you want to see heading into the season?

Rio/Cole/Napier
Wade/Brown/Williams (Johnson overseas)
Deng/Granger/Ennis
McRoberts/Haslem/Williams
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton

This would be my exact choice! I would love for Johnson to be our 3rd SG, but stashing him overseas for a year like we did with Ennis might be a better idea.

[RJM]

Rio/Cole/Napier/Johnson
Wade/Brown/Williams (R)/Dawkins
Deng/Granger/Ennis/
McBob/Haslem/Williams (S)/Jones
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton/Birch

So with Blatche and Crawford leaving for China, our last roster spot will probably belong to somebody undrafted, a d-leaguer or washed up veteran, neither of which probably makes the team. So after the training camp, who are the 15 you want to see heading into the season?

Rio/Cole/Napier
Wade/Brown/Williams (Johnson overseas)
Deng/Granger/Ennis
McRoberts/Haslem/Williams
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton

This would be my exact choice! I would love for Johnson to be our 3rd SG, but stashing him overseas for a year like we did with Ennis might be a better idea.

It's a little different in TJ's case, mainly because Miami 1) signed him and 2) didn't draft him, meaning he is, quite literally, a FREE agent untethered by the Miami HEAT's desires. Miami could tell him to either stay in the D-League with Sioux Falls or someone else, but he would be free to sign with anyone that saw potential in him.

[dancing2thabeet]

Rio/Cole/Napier
Wade/Brown/Williams (Johnson overseas)
Deng/Granger/Ennis
McRoberts/Haslem/Williams
Bosh/Birdman/Hamilton

This would be my exact choice! I would love for Johnson to be our 3rd SG, but stashing him overseas for a year like we did with Ennis might be a better idea.

It's a little different in TJ's case, mainly because Miami 1) signed him and 2) didn't draft him, meaning he is, quite literally, a FREE agent untethered by the Miami HEAT's desires. Miami could tell him to either stay in the D-League with Sioux Falls or someone else, but he would be free to sign with anyone that saw potential in him.

Damn. I'd rather we keep him, then.

[Heat_team02]

I'd rather have Khem Birch.

If I had my way I would cut Shawne Williams and Shannon Brown in favor of Birch & Johnson.

Reggie Williams will be of more value than Shannon Brown.

Justin Hamilton will survive the cut because he moves, defends and can shoot.

[Dmcdani6]

I'd rather have Khem Birch.

If I had my way I would cut Shawne Williams and Shannon Brown in favor of Birch & Johnson.

Reggie Williams will be of more value than Shannon Brown.

Justin Hamilton will survive the cut because he moves, defends and can shoot.

THIS completely. I think its a good possibility though, they took on two last year. Why not this year too?

[heater4life]

Cant wait for season to start. After the defection, signings of Granger, McBob, and Deng; I have been on a bball hiatus.

Lets see what the boys got this year. I hope the defense is intense.

[Maroko]

Cant wait for season to start. After the defection, signings of Granger, McBob, and Deng; I have been on a bball hiatus.

Lets see what the boys got this year. I hope the defense is intense.

And1 for the sig

[GreenHat]

Our offense truly developed with smallball in the 12 playoffs with Battier starting at the 4. Before that our offense was relatively good but only because of the sheer talent that we had not because of our system. We have to give Spo credit for running with smallball and creating a true offensive monster in 2013. Before the 12 playoffs we were still good offensively but our ball movement was nowhere as good as 2013.

The "true offensive monster in 2013": 112.3 Ortg
The offense before it developed in the first year: 111.7 Ortg

.6 points per 100 possessions. Hardly any change at all. Like I said its revisionist history and the narrative that people want to believe because of the last series of those seasons.

In 2010/2011 was still a more impactful player than in the following year. It is not just about our offensive numbers improving, it is about our offense becoming harder to stop against different defensive schemes. Your offensive ratings can be high during the regular season when teams don't game plan as much for you and your individual talent carries you. Once the playoffs roll around, it'll be all the more about offensive versatility and that's the key difference between the first year and the following years.

Random fluctuations of small sample sizes explain the differences more than this created offensive versatility narrative. The only defense we really struggled against that year was Chicago and that was an all time great defense. Even against Dallas we did fairly well considering how poorly Lebron played. We did much better against them then we did against the Spurs this year and about the same as the year we beat the Spurs.

The evidence for this offensive transformation is usually given by the Thunder series. But the spike was fueled by unsustainable three point shooting by a couple of our guys (which didn't hold up). That's also ignoring that the Thunder weren't really a good defensive team.

The difference in offensive effectiveness from that first year has been greatly exaggerated. The biggest difference between the Mavs series and the Thunder series was our shooting on wide open threes.

[GreenHat]

Our offense truly developed with smallball in the 12 playoffs with Battier starting at the 4. Before that our offense was relatively good but only because of the sheer talent that we had not because of our system. We have to give Spo credit for running with smallball and creating a true offensive monster in 2013. Before the 12 playoffs we were still good offensively but our ball movement was nowhere as good as 2013.

The "true offensive monster in 2013": 112.3 Ortg
The offense before it developed in the first year: 111.7 Ortg

.6 points per 100 possessions. Hardly any change at all. Like I said its revisionist history and the narrative that people want to believe because of the last series of those seasons.

No, it's not revisionist history. What did I just say in my post? In 2011 our offense was good because of sheer talent but not a system. In 2013 we had an actual offensive system and ball movement. Our offense was Spurs like. Anyone can see that. If you think 2011 was great offensively or on the same level as our 2013 team then you need to really watch the games and not go by simple Ortg. To even argue that is baffling to me.

2011 was on the same level offensively even though it didn't look as pretty.

Ortg is points per possession. Sorry I will take that over your eye test.

The fact is that in our first year we scored 111.7 points per 100 possessions and after our transformation into a "Spurs like" offense we became a "true offensive monster" that scored 112.3 points per game.

To even argue that they weren't on the same level is baffling. It is revisionist history to say our offense greatly improved from the first season.

[PaulieWal]

2011 was on the same level offensively even though it didn't look as pretty.

Ortg is points per possession. Sorry I will take that over your eye test.

The fact is that in our first year we scored 111.7 points per 100 possessions and after our transformation into a "Spurs like" offense we became a "true offensive monster" that scored 112.3 points per game.

To even argue that they weren't on the same level is baffling. It is revisionist history to say our offense greatly improved from the first season.

Before the 12 playoffs we were still good offensively but our ball movement was nowhere as good as 2013.

The point here is clear. We had a good Ortg but no offensive system and our offense was mostly give the ball to Wade/LeBron and get out of the way. It's really similar to the Thunder right now who are always a top offense in the league and struggle in the playoffs because they have no real offensive system. Our offense did great improve from 2011 to 2013. We had an offensive system in place, we knew everything was going to run through LeBron and then Wade in the post, we knew we were always going to spread the floor with shooters, we knew we were going to use Bosh as a floor-spacer. All those things were designed by Spo and did create an "offensive monster".

Arguing for the sake of arguing looks petty and you continue to do that. We all are acknowledging that yes, we had a good Ortg in 2011 but anyone could see we were not running a system and relied on sheer talent. 2013 is worlds better for that reason and as others have pointed by then we had everyone playing to fit LeBron. This is my last response on this matter since it seems like you are arguing a position to hold on to it. I know we had a good Ortg in 2011 and don't deny that but I wouldn't call any iso-offense no matter how highly rated effective or good.

[Heat_team02]

That's why I posted this recently posted video in another thread to show how we used to play on both ends.

See at 9:55

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4FhYYFrxgY[/youtube]

[Hallstar]

2011 was on the same level offensively even though it didn't look as pretty.

Ortg is points per possession. Sorry I will take that over your eye test.

The fact is that in our first year we scored 111.7 points per 100 possessions and after our transformation into a "Spurs like" offense we became a "true offensive monster" that scored 112.3 points per game.

To even argue that they weren't on the same level is baffling. It is revisionist history to say our offense greatly improved from the first season.

Before the 12 playoffs we were still good offensively but our ball movement was nowhere as good as 2013.

The point here is clear. We had a good Ortg but no offensive system and our offense was mostly give the ball to Wade/LeBron and get out of the way. It's really similar to the Thunder right now who are always a top offense in the league and struggle in the playoffs because they have no real offensive system. Our offense did great improve from 2011 to 2013. We had an offensive system in place, we knew everything was going to run through LeBron and then Wade in the post, we knew we were always going to spread the floor with shooters, we knew we were going to use Bosh as a floor-spacer. All those things were designed by Spo and did create an "offensive monster".

Arguing for the sake of arguing looks petty and you continue to do that. We all are acknowledging that yes, we had a good Ortg in 2011 but anyone could see we were not running a system and relied on sheer talent. 2013 is worlds better for that reason and as others have pointed by then we had everyone playing to fit LeBron. This is my last response in this matter since it seems like you are arguing a position to hold on to it. I know we had a good Ortg in 2011 and don't deny that but I wouldn't call any iso-offense no matter how highly rated effective or good.

The offense didn't rely as much on isos and getting to the line after 2011, which can depend a lot on what refs shows up and that gets fluky in the playoffs.

[dancing2thabeet]

I'd rather have Khem Birch.

If I had my way I would cut Shawne Williams and Shannon Brown in favor of Birch & Johnson.

Reggie Williams will be of more value than Shannon Brown.

Justin Hamilton will survive the cut because he moves, defends and can shoot.

I think Brown makes the team, pretty good defensive upside considering his athleticism.

[Heat_team02]

I'd rather have Khem Birch.

If I had my way I would cut Shawne Williams and Shannon Brown in favor of Birch & Johnson.

Reggie Williams will be of more value than Shannon Brown.

Justin Hamilton will survive the cut because he moves, defends and can shoot.

I think Brown makes the team, pretty good defensive upside considering his athleticism.

The log jam in the back court is what gives me pause along with Brown's shaky jumper.

[DWadeno3]

The "true offensive monster in 2013": 112.3 Ortg
The offense before it developed in the first year: 111.7 Ortg

.6 points per 100 possessions. Hardly any change at all. Like I said its revisionist history and the narrative that people want to believe because of the last series of those seasons.

In 2010/2011 was still a more impactful player than in the following year. It is not just about our offensive numbers improving, it is about our offense becoming harder to stop against different defensive schemes. Your offensive ratings can be high during the regular season when teams don't game plan as much for you and your individual talent carries you. Once the playoffs roll around, it'll be all the more about offensive versatility and that's the key difference between the first year and the following years.

Random fluctuations of small sample sizes explain the differences more than this created offensive versatility narrative. The only defense we really struggled against that year was Chicago and that was an all time great defense. Even against Dallas we did fairly well considering how poorly Lebron played. We did much better against them then we did against the Spurs this year and about the same as the year we beat the Spurs.

The evidence for this offensive transformation is usually given by the Thunder series. But the spike was fueled by unsustainable three point shooting by a couple of our guys (which didn't hold up). That's also ignoring that the Thunder weren't really a good defensive team.

The difference in offensive effectiveness from that first year has been greatly exaggerated. The biggest difference between the Mavs series and the Thunder series was our shooting on wide open threes.

You're still just going by the numbers without putting them into context. Again: Wade was never as good as he was in 2010/2011 during the Big Three era. That plays a major role in our offensive ratings. His per 36 numbers might be similar, but he simply wasn't on the court as much. The fact that we maintained a similar/had a slightly better ORtg is partially due to better role players but also due to better offensive execution.

Does that make us a significantly better basketball team? Who knows, the star power we had in 2010/2011 has never been matched in any seasons after that. But it still can be noted that our execution improved greatly.

[dancing2thabeet]

Miami to stick with small ball, including Danny Granger getting time at the four

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

[Seabass777]

Miami to stick with small ball, including Danny Granger getting time at the four

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

Lol...

[Makavalli]

smh well small ball can work offensively if we are actually moving the ball now instead of the bron stare and run in the paint while everybody in the corner move. if the game goes thru bosh it might actually look like stoudemire in his 1st year with the Knicks with bosh having a mismatch against most centers except he shouldnt need to drop 40