Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[MiamiLoyal926]

Heat basketball is all about sharing the ball. Herro plays within that system. When he gets a bit greedy, we get upset. When he is passive, we knock him for not being more assertive on offense. What I saw this preseason is that he was more decisive with less probing and over dribbling.

How would Poole do in our system? Would he manage Spo’s style better than Herro?

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

My point exactly… your knee jerk reaction is that Herro is greedy, since he is getting up the most shots in the team. We also get upset when he deviates from team ball, but at the same time, we hope he has the alpha dog in him. If Herro is under this type of “damn if you do, damn if you don’t” scrutiny, how would Poole fair in our system?

I am not “wanting to”, or “not wanting to” admit anything. My point is that Poole would be sitting on this team having the same struggle as Herro. Both are required to play smart basketball or get benched. We know very well Spo has a low tolerance for rookie mistakes. Herro playing smart basketball is what will take him to the next level this season. We lack a true PG so unfortunately, playing off the ball is not in Herro’s cards.

[AirP.]

Heat basketball is all about sharing the ball. Herro plays within that system. When he gets a bit greedy, we get upset. When he is passive, we knock him for not being more assertive on offense. What I saw this preseason is that he was more decisive with less probing and over dribbling.

How would Poole do in our system? Would he manage Spo’s style better than Herro?

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

If Butler wanted more shots or even it Spo wanted Herro to shoot less what do you think would happen?

A conversation with him that didn't seem to work since the he was taking crazier shots that particular game right after having a talk about his shot selection that Spoelstra wasn't happy with which is why the announcers brought up that piece of inforation. So, a conversation happened, and things got worse.

The only real reason to extend Herro last year was to make him available for a trade this year, had Miami waited to extend him this year they probably could have gotten him for a lower amount had they told him to go get a contract for us to match.

[QUIZ]

Duncan is shooting 24% from three in the preseason, 6/25.

Not saying that it’s already an issue, but definitely something to monitor. We’ve looked kinda stinky as a whole shooting the ball so far

[MiamiLoyal926]

Duncan is shooting 24% from three in the preseason, 6/25.

Not saying that it’s already an issue, but definitely something to monitor. We’ve looked kinda stinky as a whole shooting the ball so far

I am hoping that when Butler is on the court, Duncan will benefit from the superstar gravity of his teammate, thus giving him better looks… but that is likely just wishful thinking.

[AirP.]

Heat basketball is all about sharing the ball. Herro plays within that system. When he gets a bit greedy, we get upset. When he is passive, we knock him for not being more assertive on offense. What I saw this preseason is that he was more decisive with less probing and over dribbling.

How would Poole do in our system? Would he manage Spo’s style better than Herro?

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

My point exactly… your knee jerk reaction is that Herro is greedy, since he is getting up the most shots in the team. We also get upset when he deviates from team ball, but at the same time, we hope he has the alpha dog in him. If Herro is under this type of “damn if you do, damn if you don’t” scrutiny, how would Poole fair in our system?

Knee jerk reaction? I've been saying this since this since his 2nd season, so it's not exactly a knee jerk reaction.

On the stats, that is something to point at although there could be a context to a stat, I watch the games more and see him more times then I'd like to see him waste 5-8 seconds looking for his own shot, not find it and hand off the grenade at the end of the shot clock for someone else to put up a bad shot. Stats that I do like to use just tell part of the story, sometimes a lot of the story but sometimes there's a context to them that isn't part of the norm.

I am not “wanting to”, or “not wanting to” admit anything. My point is that Poole would be sitting on this team having the same struggle as Herro. Both are required to play smart basketball or get benched. We know very well Spo has a low tolerance for rookie mistakes. Herro playing smart basketball is what will take him to the next level this season. We lack a true PG so unfortunately, playing off the ball is not in Herro’s cards.

We watch dramatically different games. I got tired of posting screenshots of Herro taking ridiculous shots with a lot of time on the clock or someone being wide open while Herro looks for his own shot. BTW, Lowry is a true PG, so the team does have a PG, the issue with him in Miami doesn't want a true PG, they want a combo guard handling the point and guarding the other team's PG. It's why we've seen Nunn and Vincent get to be starters for Miami. Lowry was the boobie prize after striking out with that 2021 plan, the only other player out there was L.Ball and there was a reason NO didn't want him back with him being productive for them, maybe it was because there were possible issues with his long-term medicals.

My disclaimer I have to do from time to time... Herro is talented, he works hard, but I believe he's a big greedy, loved how he played his rookie season, mostly off the ball but haven't been a fan of his since he started handling the ball as much as he has since that rookie season.

[Rapaz]

24% is terrific. He is hitting a three every +/- 4 tries.

For comparison, Mark McGwire only hit a home run every 10.61 plate appearances for his career, a major league record.

Just imagine if Plumpkin juiced!

[AirP.]

24% is terrific. He is hitting a three every +/- 4 tries.

For comparison, Mark McGwire only hit a home run every 10.61 plate appearances for his career, a major league record.

Just imagine if Plumpkin juiced!

He could guard 4s?

[Rapaz]

24% is terrific. He is hitting a three every +/- 4 tries.

For comparison, Mark McGwire only hit a home run every 10.61 plate appearances for his career, a major league record.

Just imagine if Plumpkin juiced!

He could guard 4s?

That would be some miracle juice.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

My point exactly… your knee jerk reaction is that Herro is greedy, since he is getting up the most shots in the team. We also get upset when he deviates from team ball, but at the same time, we hope he has the alpha dog in him. If Herro is under this type of “damn if you do, damn if you don’t” scrutiny, how would Poole fair in our system?

Knee jerk reaction? I've been saying this since this since his 2nd season, so it's not exactly a knee jerk reaction.

On the stats, that is something to point at although there could be a context to a stat, I watch the games more and see him more times then I'd like to see him waste 5-8 seconds looking for his own shot, not find it and hand off the grenade at the end of the shot clock for someone else to put up a bad shot. Stats that I do like to use just tell part of the story, sometimes a lot of the story but sometimes there's a context to them that isn't part of the norm.

I am not “wanting to”, or “not wanting to” admit anything. My point is that Poole would be sitting on this team having the same struggle as Herro. Both are required to play smart basketball or get benched. We know very well Spo has a low tolerance for rookie mistakes. Herro playing smart basketball is what will take him to the next level this season. We lack a true PG so unfortunately, playing off the ball is not in Herro’s cards.

We watch dramatically different games. I got tired of posting screenshots of Herro taking ridiculous shots with a lot of time on the clock or someone being wide open while Herro looks for his own shot. BTW, Lowry is a true PG, so the team does have a PG, the issue with him in Miami doesn't want a true PG, they want a combo guard handling the point and guarding the other team's PG. It's why we've seen Nunn and Vincent get to be starters for Miami. Lowry was the boobie prize after striking out with that 2021 plan, the only other player out there was L.Ball and there was a reason NO didn't want him back with him being productive for them, maybe it was because there were possible issues with his long-term medicals.

My disclaimer I have to do from time to time... Herro is talented, he works hard, but I believe he's a big greedy, loved how he played his rookie season, mostly off the ball but haven't been a fan of his since he started handling the ball as much as he has since that rookie season.

You seem to think I am defending or making a case for Herro. I am just saying that Poole will look great in a system where he can go balls to the wall like in Washington, while it still being poor team and winning basketball. At least Herro has been in our system and understands his place (for the most part ). Poole will put up stats and many would think he is better, but at the end of the day, they are playing in different systems and Poole would not look any better than Herro in our system.

What I am hoping for is to see Herro play within our system while also showing to be a 3 level scorer.

[AirP.]

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

Heat basketball is all about sharing the ball. Herro plays within that system. When he gets a bit greedy, we get upset. When he is passive, we knock him for not being more assertive on offense. What I saw this preseason is that he was more decisive with less probing and over dribbling.

How would Poole do in our system? Would he manage Spo’s style better than Herro?

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

If Butler wanted more shots or even it Spo wanted Herro to shoot less what do you think would happen?

Butler would get more shots and if Spo wanted Herro to take less shots he would or he’d be benched.

Only issue is that Herro is payed $30M to be a scorer and up to this point (we’ll see if anything changes this season) if Herro isn’t scoring or is having an off night scoring he’s practically useless, especially considering his defense.

Hopefully he improves his efficiency this season and is able to get to the line more as well

[twix2500]

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

My point exactly… your knee jerk reaction is that Herro is greedy, since he is getting up the most shots in the team. We also get upset when he deviates from team ball, but at the same time, we hope he has the alpha dog in him. If Herro is under this type of “damn if you do, damn if you don’t” scrutiny, how would Poole fair in our system?

Knee jerk reaction? I've been saying this since this since his 2nd season, so it's not exactly a knee jerk reaction.

On the stats, that is something to point at although there could be a context to a stat, I watch the games more and see him more times then I'd like to see him waste 5-8 seconds looking for his own shot, not find it and hand off the grenade at the end of the shot clock for someone else to put up a bad shot. Stats that I do like to use just tell part of the story, sometimes a lot of the story but sometimes there's a context to them that isn't part of the norm.

I am not “wanting to”, or “not wanting to” admit anything. My point is that Poole would be sitting on this team having the same struggle as Herro. Both are required to play smart basketball or get benched. We know very well Spo has a low tolerance for rookie mistakes. Herro playing smart basketball is what will take him to the next level this season. We lack a true PG so unfortunately, playing off the ball is not in Herro’s cards.

We watch dramatically different games. I got tired of posting screenshots of Herro taking ridiculous shots with a lot of time on the clock or someone being wide open while Herro looks for his own shot. BTW, Lowry is a true PG, so the team does have a PG, the issue with him in Miami doesn't want a true PG, they want a combo guard handling the point and guarding the other team's PG. It's why we've seen Nunn and Vincent get to be starters for Miami. Lowry was the boobie prize after striking out with that 2021 plan, the only other player out there was L.Ball and there was a reason NO didn't want him back with him being productive for them, maybe it was because there were possible issues with his long-term medicals.

My disclaimer I have to do from time to time... Herro is talented, he works hard, but I believe he's a big greedy, loved how he played his rookie season, mostly off the ball but haven't been a fan of his since he started handling the ball as much as he has since that rookie season.

Most people do not get on Herro for the quantity or even the quality of shots he takes. Because most of it falls on Spo system. Herro is not some elite world talent that can get himself in his most effective spots. Physically Herro does not have elite physical talent like a Lebron, Durant or even like Harden (elite strength) or a Ray Allen. He is not blowing by people with elite speed neither. Spo needs to run a system that puts Herro in his most efficient and effective spots. But he falling back on using him like Lebron or Harden. And keep going to the Pace and Space offense which works when you have a guy like Lebron and Butler handling the ball, but not when Herro or Josh Richardson handling the ball.

When the Heat run the Pace and Space offense outside of Lebron or Butler handling the ball the offense (usually slow pace high efficiency) ends up being a high pace highly inefficient offense.

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[AirP.]

Don't lead me down this road, Herro is a lot greedier than you want to admit. He's taken more shots per game each of the last 2 season than any season Butler has ever had and because of the in-game Miami announcers, once in a while we get to hear about Spoelstra having conversations about Herro's shot selection. If he played Klay's type of offensive game, he'd probably be an all-star with that 3pt shot and not being affected by late game situations. Herro has some really nice strengths; I just don't think they're being utilized properly up to the end of last season.

If Butler wanted more shots or even it Spo wanted Herro to shoot less what do you think would happen?

Butler would get more shots and if Spo wanted Herro to take less shots he would or he’d be benched.

Only issue is that Herro is payed $30M to be a scorer and up to this point (we’ll see if anything changes this season) if Herro isn’t scoring or is having an off night scoring he’s practically useless, especially considering his defense.

Hopefully he improves his efficiency this season and is able to get to the line more as well

I wouldn't say that. I mentioned before Herro having shot selection conversations with Spoelstra and nothing changed other than one particular game Herro went even more extreme.

I think Spoelstra is a much easier on players for most of the regular season but things change near the end of the season and in the playoffs.

Like I mentioned before, there's probably a reason Herro got paid a year early (to get him trade eligible this summer) vs having to go get an offer that probably would have been less than the contract he got last year like who was going to be able to and want to offer him anywhere near 30 mil a year? For an example, nobody offered A.Reaves anything this summer allowing the Lakers to extend him for under 15 mil a year which is a great value and allows LA to use money elsewhere to strengthen the roster.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I don’t really care about the Herro/Poole debate, I think Poole is slightly better because he’s more efficient and they’re basically the same player. The one thing Poole does have over Herro though is he was Huge in the Warriors championship run while Herro hasn’t been able to step up to the plate in the playoffs for one reason or another. Hopefully that changes this season

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If Butler wanted more shots or even it Spo wanted Herro to shoot less what do you think would happen?

Butler would get more shots and if Spo wanted Herro to take less shots he would or he’d be benched.

Only issue is that Herro is payed $30M to be a scorer and up to this point (we’ll see if anything changes this season) if Herro isn’t scoring or is having an off night scoring he’s practically useless, especially considering his defense.

Hopefully he improves his efficiency this season and is able to get to the line more as well

I wouldn't say that. I mentioned before Herro having shot selection conversations with Spoelstra and nothing changed other than one particular game Herro went even more extreme.

I think Spoelstra is a much easier on players for most of the regular season but things change near the end of the season and in the playoffs.

Like I mentioned before, there's probably a reason Herro got paid a year early (to get him trade eligible this summer) vs having to go get an offer that probably would have been less than the contract he got last year like who was going to be able to and want to offer him anywhere near 30 mil a year? For an example, nobody offered A.Reaves anything this summer allowing the Lakers to extend him for under 15 mil a year which is a great value and allows LA to use money elsewhere to strengthen the roster.

If Spo viewed it as a major issue and Herro kept disregarding him there would be some visible beef going on and Herro would be benched; I’m very confident in that

[AirP.]

I don’t really care about the Herro/Poole debate, I think Poole is slightly better because he’s more efficient and they’re basically the same player. The one thing Poole does have over Herro though is he was Huge in the Warriors championship run while Herro hasn’t been able to step up to the plate in the playoffs for one reason or another. Hopefully that changes this season

I think Herro is more coachable than Poole but that's not really saying a whole lot. Golden State wants to win another Championship as their window is closing and was perfectly fine moving a scoring talent for an overpriced older vet PG.

It's quite possible if Miami had wanted Poole they may have been able to get him for Lowry, Washington also got draft assets with Poole.

[AirP.]

Never promising when they feel the need for an MRI. So, if Richardson isn't ready for the start of the season it seems to lock in Lowry and Herro as the starting backcourt teamed up with a starting Kevin Love at PF with Dru Smith in the rotation early on.

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[twix2500]

Never promising when they feel the need for an MRI. So, if Richardson isn't ready for the start of the season it seems to lock in Lowry and Herro as the starting backcourt teamed up with a starting Kevin Love at PF with Dru Smith in the rotation early on.

Read on Twitter

I have no problem with Lowry and Love starting. If they do start I better not see that Pace and Space offense where the touches just goes to whom ever the most aggressive shooter. At the end of the game we look at Butler and Bam taking less than 12 attempts meanwhile Herro, Richardson and Martin taking 15 plus attempts

Run the offense through Lowry mainly and show different schemes and looks offensively. Where shots are created in a variety of ways. Love, Herro, Butler, Love and Bam do not need to learn a new playbook. They should know each other and the plays by now.

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[VaDe255]

I don’t really care about the Herro/Poole debate, I think Poole is slightly better because he’s more efficient and they’re basically the same player. The one thing Poole does have over Herro though is he was Huge in the Warriors championship run while Herro hasn’t been able to step up to the plate in the playoffs for one reason or another. Hopefully that changes this season

Difficult to say who is "better".
Easy to say who is the better fit for the Heat, Herro by a landslide.

Poole as you said is an efficient scorer, but only because he is more dynamic scoring option inside the paint and draws fouls more often. His shooting is lacking and below average.

Herro is far more valuable to the Heat. He is an exceptional shooter and takes unassisted and the difficult 3s as well, only 17% of his 3s were from the corner. A lot of his points are from the outside and he is deadly on those catch and shoot 3s. Opposing defenses have to worry about when he doesn't have the ball much more compared to Poole.

Herro for some reason has been criticized for his efficiency, when in reality he is above-average efficiency for his position on a high volume of shots.

I think Poole will always be more limited than Herro, because of his shooting. Herro's ceiling is very high, if he learns to draw more fouls and can finish more often at the rim he's an allstar. I don't think ppl realize that the difference between him and guys like Mitchell, Booker, Murray isn't all that much and could be nothing in a few years.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Never promising when they feel the need for an MRI. So, if Richardson isn't ready for the start of the season it seems to lock in Lowry and Herro as the starting backcourt teamed up with a starting Kevin Love at PF with Dru Smith in the rotation early on.

Read on Twitter

Damn, 3 starters who can’t play defense and 2 of those 3 are bad offensive players too. Then a guy who shouldn’t be in the league backing us up at PG. Should be fun, Jimmy Herro and Bam should all Jack 20 shots a night minimum