2024-25 Regular Season Thread Vol. 3

[AirP.]

Exactly. Curious to see the delusion they are operating with. Gotta be something decent coming back when trying to match a 48 mil contract.

If it's Memphis, I'm expecting something that's around this but in this situation Miami has to move another players, if a trade like this starts to materialize they have to bring in a 3rd team (which makes things more complicated) to reroute somebody to, I could see Miami trying to reroute Clarke who should bring back something Miami wants.

Spoiler:

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This seems like a realistic deal. I'm not following the ones that end up with the Heat getting Ingram and Zion or Ingram and Fox.

Clarke would be on the books for 26-27 free agency period. It's $12 million though so it wouldn't kill the cap space, but it would be another contract. Although if he's a legit rotation player $12 million isn't so bad.

I added onto my previous post, you try to reroute Clarke in the trade to a 3rd team for a draft asset or expiring contract (by 2026) of a player you can use. Miami can't take 2 extra players without rerouting or cutting a player to take all those players in a trade, it puts them past the max 15 active players.

[Voltron914]

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Great, this is just going to drag on if so. Pat probably wants an all star 2 young prospects and 5 1sts and teams are probably offering salary filler

It’s an easy fix just don’t trade him. Any serious team that Jimmy would like to sign with will have to acquire him via SNT anyways if he opts out. Miami isn’t competing this year or the next despite what they may say publicly about that. There is no rush to move Jimmy. Just keep suspending him if he wants to behave like a clown while under contract.

The WORST THING that Miami can do is take on more salary past 26 in any deal involving Jimmy. They would be better off just letting him hang out at home. If the NBA gets upset because one of their most marketable stars on one of their most marketable teams isn’t playing basketball, just remind them that this issue likely doesn’t exist if the NBA didn’t decide to selectively get involved with the Lillard situation because they didn’t want to see Miami get their way.

100% facts on the Dame situation. so the max extension butler wants would've stretched into the 26 season cap space? i get it now. like other posters his ego couldn't handle the shift to future plans of a post super star era with a lesser veteran role and salary so he did a self destruct. he didn't want to hear it from the Heat but the market is telling him the same thing right now

[greg4012]

Offseason trade (shell)

Bam
Jovic
Duncan

To Sac for

Sabonis
Devin Carter
Murray

Bam reunited with his Kentucky buds and keeps Fox happy and content

Mia gets Anthony Carters son who happens to be a perfect defensive fit next to Herro

They also get Murray who can positionally replace Jimmy, and Sabonis who they could either keep or flip for draft comp. If they keep, I could actually see Spo playing him with Ware.

Pairing 2 bigs that can't defend in space and can only run with slow-footed centers. What could go wrong?

Herro paired in the backcourt with rozier or Duncan, what could go wrong…

Some guy on Orlando named Queen regularly blowing past them.

Granted Carter helps plug one defensive hole and losing Bam unplugs another, but I specifically mentioned the idea that mia could use Sabonis to get draft comp. In turn, that can be used to find bigger defenders

Plenty goes wrong with it. It's not a backcourt Miami should have invested in. The dialogue among most ever since the Rozier trade was that Rozier and Herro shouldn't coexist. The dialogue for the entire duration of the Herro and Duncan on the heat is that one needs to come off the bench.

Pointing out another issue with the current roster does nothing to validate the proposition that Miami should make the proactive decision to invest in making the frontcourt a bad fit (and overall downgrade) as well.

Glad we can agree that Rozier and Herro should not be starting together.

Devin Carter is cool. But I'm not seeing the 6'2 22-year old rookie that (1) doesnt have a floor general's game, (2) doesn't have a lead scoring guard's game; and (3) has played in 1 NBA game and still hasn't score his first basket in the NBA as some sort of prize worthy of creating further mess. I'm confident Carter will be a high quality NBA defender. I'm not trading Bam for that. Might as well just scoop up 27 y/o Dennis Smith Jr off the trash heap for that.

Any trade for Bam needs to start with a HAUL of picks at minimum.

[AirP.]

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Great, this is just going to drag on if so. Pat probably wants an all star 2 young prospects and 5 1sts and teams are probably offering salary filler

It’s an easy fix just don’t trade him. Any serious team that Jimmy would like to sign with will have to acquire him via SNT anyways if he opts out. Miami isn’t competing this year or the next despite what they may say publicly about that. There is no rush to move Jimmy. Just keep suspending him if he wants to behave like a clown while under contract.

The WORST THING that Miami can do is take on more salary past 26 in any deal involving Jimmy. They would be better off just letting him hang out at home. If the NBA gets upset because one of their most marketable stars on one of their most marketable teams isn’t playing basketball, just remind them that this issue likely doesn’t exist if the NBA didn’t decide to selectively get involved with the Lillard situation because they didn’t want to see Miami get their way.

100% facts on the Dame situation. so the max extension butler wants would've stretched into the 26 season cap space? i get it now. like other posters his ego couldn't handle the shift to future plans of a post super star era with a lesser veteran role and salary so he did a self destruct. he didn't want to hear it from the Heat but the market is telling him the same thing right now

Each year that goes by his chances at a the most money he can get goes down. We don't know if Miami had been telling Butler and his agent to try to keep them ok with no chance at real money past 2025. I don't think there was any chance Butler could have gotten an extension except for barging basement prices, they may have led him to believe the max was possible still but changing the offense kinda shows, they're starting to pivot away from him, so he wanted out and they said nah, not unless we get a big return. 100% fine for a team to do, but these are the situations that Miami prays on with other teams, that's my issue with Miami doing it. At some point the history that they keep doing this to the higher level players will make other players wonder if it'll happen to them and take that in consideration before forcing their way to Miami like LeBron, Bosh, Butler and even Oladipo did.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[Beenie]

I was one of the few in here who was arguing against what Dame was doing despite still wanting him here obviously. Its bush league and I'm tired of players pulling this kind of crap. So personally I'd be thrilled if the Heat finally set a precedent of teams saying "**** YOU" to this sort of behavior, and **** them over right back. Keep him suspended, all we need is the expiring, we don't care about a couple second round picks or whatever he'd bring back.

Then, let it spread to the rest of the league, and end this insufferable era of player entitlement. No other professional league has the players routinely demanding teams to trade them to their preferred destinations, or even making trade demands period. I'm getting sick of how player centric the NBA has become, its a league now where the player fans have more to root for than the team fans do in many cases.

Port lied time and again to Dame about the direction of the team and allegedly told him when they negotiated his last contract with them that they would do right by him in sending him to the destination that he’d be happy with if things didn’t work out.

Mia allegedly told Jimmy that the vision was to add another star to the team when they initially courted him.

I don’t blame the player who eventually crashes out on the team when the team failed to deliver on promises made to the player

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

Players aren’t contractually obligated to shut up or have their contract annulled when they have disagreements with their teams.

If these billion dollar corporations aren’t honoring their side of things, I don’t expect their laborers to not make a fuss.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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It’s pretty simple tbh, when you’re not as involved as you used to be (when voicing you want to be more involved) the bad games are going to stick out more and be worse than usual. If you have 6 points going into the 4th but you’re heavily involved you can get a little hot streak and still finish with 20. If you’re not that involved you might get 1-2 shots in the quarter and still finish with 6

[3ammy3uck3ts]

This new and improved offense is worse than last seasons by the way lol

[twix2500]

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Great, this is just going to drag on if so. Pat probably wants an all star 2 young prospects and 5 1sts and teams are probably offering salary filler

It’s an easy fix just don’t trade him. Any serious team that Jimmy would like to sign with will have to acquire him via SNT anyways if he opts out. Miami isn’t competing this year or the next despite what they may say publicly about that. There is no rush to move Jimmy. Just keep suspending him if he wants to behave like a clown while under contract.

The WORST THING that Miami can do is take on more salary past 26 in any deal involving Jimmy. They would be better off just letting him hang out at home. If the NBA gets upset because one of their most marketable stars on one of their most marketable teams isn’t playing basketball, just remind them that this issue likely doesn’t exist if the NBA didn’t decide to selectively get involved with the Lillard situation because they didn’t want to see Miami get their way.

100% facts on the Dame situation. so the max extension butler wants would've stretched into the 26 season cap space? i get it now. like other posters his ego couldn't handle the shift to future plans of a post super star era with a lesser veteran role and salary so he did a self destruct. he didn't want to hear it from the Heat but the market is telling him the same thing right now

This is reality. The Suns may be a he only franchise to offer the amount of money he want. But this summer there is a good chance no team will be willing to offer him the amount of money he wanted now. He likely will have to extremely lower his expectations. He may experienced what Caleb Martin experienced. Martin wanted more money than what the Heat offerred but ended up getting less during the summer.

[Beenie]

Pairing 2 bigs that can't defend in space and can only run with slow-footed centers. What could go wrong?

Herro paired in the backcourt with rozier or Duncan, what could go wrong…

Some guy on Orlando named Queen regularly blowing past them.

Granted Carter helps plug one defensive hole and losing Bam unplugs another, but I specifically mentioned the idea that mia could use Sabonis to get draft comp. In turn, that can be used to find bigger defenders

Plenty goes wrong with it. It's not a backcourt Miami should have invested in. The dialogue among most ever since the Rozier trade was that Rozier and Herro shouldn't coexist. The dialogue for the entire duration of the Herro and Duncan on the heat is that one needs to come off the bench.

Pointing out another issue with the current roster does nothing to validate the proposition that Miami should make the proactive decision to invest in making the frontcourt a bad fit (and overall downgrade) as well.

Glad we can agree that Rozier and Herro should not be starting together.

Devin Carter is cool. But I'm not seeing the 6'2 22-year old rookie that (1) doesnt have a floor general's game, (2) doesn't have a lead scoring guard's game; and (3) has played in 1 NBA game and still hasn't score his first basket in the NBA as some sort of prize worthy of creating further mess. I'm confident Carter will be a high quality NBA defender. I'm not trading Bam for that. Might as well just scoop up 27 y/o Dennis Smith Jr off the trash heap for that.

Any trade for Bam needs to start with a HAUL of picks at minimum.

What kind of fit is Bam and Ware?

Spo keeping us all in suspense. Perhaps he knows it’s a bad fit that won’t work which is why he refuses to try the pairing.

And I’m just not buying the idea that sabonis would be a net downgrade to Bam if they were to keep him.

FYI, if they moved sabonis they could still get a haul back while also adding Carter who ill suspect is a better version of Dru Smith and has good long term upside, and also Murray who imo has a higher ceiling than Jovic and Jaquez.

[twix2500]

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[AirP.]

Port lied time and again to Dame about the direction of the team and allegedly told him when they negotiated his last contract with them that they would do right by him in sending him to the destination that he’d be happy with if things didn’t work out.

Mia allegedly told Jimmy that the vision was to add another star to the team when they initially courted him.

I don’t blame the player who eventually crashes out on the team when the team failed to deliver on promises made to the player

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

Players aren’t contractually obligated to shut up or have their contract annulled when they have disagreements with their teams.

If these billion dollar corporations aren’t honoring their side of things, I don’t expect their laborers to not make a fuss.

Butler seemed to be fine about everything until this last offseason, he gets told publicly to shut his mouth... not something you say publicly, definitely not to someone you want to keep a working relationship to, you do that privately. Now toss in the offense changing away form his style, seems like the team is moving away from him and if so, that means his production will go down.

Personally, I think the offense did change but this was to get everyone else on board with it (mostly Herro) to remove those horrible midrange shots and it's made Herro (he's way too good of a 3pt shooter to take midrange shots vs 3s) much more efficient but expected Bam and Butler to find/keep their current way of playing about the same while doing some spacing which couldn't be said outloud. It's why Spoelstra said Butler and Bam had to find their role in the offense during the training camp and it's why Bam and now Butler have said their roles have changed and both are having bad years offensively because of it.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

Correct, but there is nuance in situations, I'm just explaining this one. Why did Butler get the max last contract, because there is a cap what he can get, this doesn't help the player, this helps the team. LeBron would have had way more career earnings without this cap but it's the rule. Also... and this is what drives me nuts, Miami utilizes bad situations with higher level players to get other team's best players. LeBron forced himself to Miami by threatening to take less which we all know wasn't going to happen and then it became a S&T. Same thing with Oladipo although he was trying to force his way out of Indian, then Houston to get to Miami. Butler forced his way to Miami when they had no way to outright sign him. I get what you're saying but Miami is one of the biggest users of disgruntled stars, it's just hurting Miami this time.

You might have missed my other post, but I disliked the situation with Dame just as much and that would have been beneficial to Miami. I'm consistent on my stance.

Also, the cap isn't designed to help or hurt one side or the other, its negotiated by the league and the players, as are things like guaranteed contracts. The cap actually helps most players in the league, since the way its designed, the money has to go somewhere, so most of it ends up being poorly allocated if you measure production vs salary. In fact, Jimmy is benefiting off the way the cap works, not being punished, because absolutely no team thinks he's worth 50+ million a year moving forward, he just happens to be eligible for it. So his trade demands are a matter of exploiting the way the cap works and trying to take that to another team since he loses that advantage if he enters free agency.

If the argument is just flatly, the players should get a larger percentage of the pie and the whole cap should be higher, again, that's on the NBPA to negotiate for a better deal. Maybe if they gave up guaranteed contracts they'd get it. But giving up guaranteed contracts would probably hurt 80% of the players if not more so not very likely.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Players aren’t contractually obligated to shut up or have their contract annulled when they have disagreements with their teams.

If these billion dollar corporations aren’t honoring their side of things, I don’t expect their laborers to not make a fuss.

Honoring their side of things? Again, where in a player's contract does it state that the team must make moves the player approves of?

The only reason teams bow to players is because teams don't want to be blackballed by agents, there's nothing legally in the players favor.

[Flash4thewin]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

[greg4012]

Herro paired in the backcourt with rozier or Duncan, what could go wrong…

Some guy on Orlando named Queen regularly blowing past them.

Granted Carter helps plug one defensive hole and losing Bam unplugs another, but I specifically mentioned the idea that mia could use Sabonis to get draft comp. In turn, that can be used to find bigger defenders

Plenty goes wrong with it. It's not a backcourt Miami should have invested in. The dialogue among most ever since the Rozier trade was that Rozier and Herro shouldn't coexist. The dialogue for the entire duration of the Herro and Duncan on the heat is that one needs to come off the bench.

Pointing out another issue with the current roster does nothing to validate the proposition that Miami should make the proactive decision to invest in making the frontcourt a bad fit (and overall downgrade) as well.

Glad we can agree that Rozier and Herro should not be starting together.

Devin Carter is cool. But I'm not seeing the 6'2 22-year old rookie that (1) doesnt have a floor general's game, (2) doesn't have a lead scoring guard's game; and (3) has played in 1 NBA game and still hasn't score his first basket in the NBA as some sort of prize worthy of creating further mess. I'm confident Carter will be a high quality NBA defender. I'm not trading Bam for that. Might as well just scoop up 27 y/o Dennis Smith Jr off the trash heap for that.

Any trade for Bam needs to start with a HAUL of picks at minimum.

What kind of fit is Bam and Ware?

Spo keeping us all in suspense. Perhaps he knows it’s a bad fit that won’t work which is why he refuses to try the pairing.

And I’m just not buying the idea that sabonis would be a net downgrade to Bam if they were to keep him.

FYI, if they moved sabonis they could still get a haul back while also adding Carter who ill suspect is a better version of Dru Smith and has good long term upside, and also Murray who imo has a higher ceiling than Jovic and Jaquez.

We'll see. It has a ton of potential IMO but Ware needs to not be rushed for his impact to work.

I know Ware can't bump with strong big men right now. I know Ware doesn't have the footspeed to defend any position other than center. I know Bam is one of the best one-on-one defenders of every single position on the court in the world. I know Bam has the footspeed to defend on the perimeter.

Sabonis and Ware have all the same fit concerns offensively that Bam and Ware would have, except with the bonus of also being a wretched fit on defense rather than potentially an elite one.

The fact that Sabonis has made 10 more 3pters total on the season than Bam doesn't change that.

I'll pass on making Miami the Kings sans Fox.

[AirP.]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

Correct, but there is nuance in situations, I'm just explaining this one. Why did Butler get the max last contract, because there is a cap what he can get, this doesn't help the player, this helps the team. LeBron would have had way more career earnings without this cap but it's the rule. Also... and this is what drives me nuts, Miami utilizes bad situations with higher level players to get other team's best players. LeBron forced himself to Miami by threatening to take less which we all know wasn't going to happen and then it became a S&T. Same thing with Oladipo although he was trying to force his way out of Indian, then Houston to get to Miami. Butler forced his way to Miami when they had no way to outright sign him. I get what you're saying but Miami is one of the biggest users of disgruntled stars, it's just hurting Miami this time.

You might have missed my other post, but I disliked the situation with Dame just as much and that would have been beneficial to Miami. I'm consistent on my stance.

Also, the cap isn't designed to help or hurt one side or the other, its negotiated by the league and the players, as are things like guaranteed contracts. The cap actually helps most players in the league, since the way its designed, the money has to go somewhere, so most of it ends up being poorly allocated if you measure production vs salary. In fact, Jimmy is benefiting off the way the cap works, not being punished, because absolutely no team thinks he's worth 50+ million a year moving forward, he just happens to be eligible for it. So his trade demands are a matter of exploiting the way the cap works and trying to take that to another team since he loses that advantage if he enters free agency.

If the argument is just flatly, the players should get a larger percentage of the pie and the whole cap should be higher, again, that's on the NBPA to negotiate for a better deal. Maybe if they gave up guaranteed contracts they'd get it. But giving up guaranteed contracts would probably hurt 80% of the players if not more so not very likely.

Sure, I had forgotten Dame and you did mention him, but this is a common tactic Miami's been using for nearly 20 years, praying on disgruntled stars and now they're the team with one.

Like you said, these are the rules, but what you see, things can be done without going against these "legal" rules. Miami still has Butler under contract, Portland had Dame under contract, but it doesn't mean the player will be happy and things can happen and they have.

I'm just saying, an organization that has tried to utilize these situations for their own leverage have allowed themselves to be in the same bad position and are now saying it's bad as before... It wasn't an issue with other players forcing their way to Miami because they NO LONGER wanted to play on their current team (even under contract) and Miami could offer them much less in a trade than the player was worth to get the team to send them there.

I have no problem with Miami praying on other teams who have players who want out, Miami just needed to get ahead of this situation before they were the team with a disgruntled star.

[eddieheatfan]

[AirP.]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

What's interesting about this particular situation, Butler has a history of making things uncomfortable when he wanted out and Miami refused to trade him this summer after attacking him verbally in the media after a season he got hurt in and tried to keep playing and while losing and then lost his father, all in a 6 month period, I would think going after a player like that in the media would be a pretty difficult thing to do to someone you at least like, let alone your top player.