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Lebron and Chris Paul are two of the biggest stat stuffers, and apparently they are also two of the biggest stars that have reverse chucker syndrome.

Lebron and Chris Paul pass too much. The would actually benefit their teams by shooting more.

In 05 Lebron average 23.1 shots per game and averaged 31.4 points a game. He hasn't broken the 30 point more than 1 time since, unless u wanna round up 29.7 to 30. Then he only hit the 30 point mark 2 times since then, and that's with taking around 3 less shots per game.

So far in his career Lebron averages 20.9 shots per game.

So the number of shots go down and the number of assits he averages since that season went up by .77 or .8. So Lebron gives almost one 1 basket to some one else.

Also take into account the amount of mins Lebron has logged. Lebron averages 40 mins a game. He also has one of the highest usage rates of all time.

So could Lebron be taking less shots to conserve energy?

Could Lebron role in the offense as Point Forward be making him take less shots?

Also another question, would it be more optimal to actually play Lebron less so he would take more shots?

Lebron just think he is a point guard and it is his duty to make sure others touch the ball?



With Miami last season he took an average of 18.8 per game. Lebron averaged 38.8 mins a game. And that is with Wade there. So he actually took 2 shots less than his average number of shots per game. So even with Wade there, his volume of shots was pretty much not affected especially when you don't count the Miami season he only averages 20.8 shots per game.

So it is possible for Lebron to actually probably take 2 or 3 shots from Wade and actually still have Wade getting his.


Wade has averaged 17.1 shots a game in the 05 season and actually still averaged 24 points a game.

All in theory, Lebron has been hurting his teams by passing the ball, so who knows, maybe if Lebron shoot the ball 4 more times a game they will be winning. Or maybe Lebron actually just plays too many minutes for him to actually be effective over a course of a 48 min game?

Well you look at shooting stats in comparison to the rest of the league it doesn't look like he passes too much. He took 18.8 shots a game with Wade and Bosh on his team. The league leader in shots a game is Monta Ellis at 20.1. So he took 1.3 less shots then the league leader in shot attempts while playing 1.5 minutes less then Monta while having one of best scorers in the NBA in Wade on his team and Bosh a career 20ppg scorer in their primes. Also Lebron shoots 3 more free throws a game then the league leader in FGA per game which are often shots you missed that didn't count.

Then there is the pace of the game that comes into account. Well the Heat are 29th out of 30 in FGA per game as a team with 76.8 per game. Warriors are first with 85.9.

Not saying he shoots too much but looking at those numbers seems kinda funny to say he passed too much. Hey maybe he should shoot more, but statistically he seems to shoot plenty as he should.

eureca20 wrote:Well you look at shooting stats in comparison to the rest of the league it doesn't look like he passes too much. He took 18.8 shots a game with Wade and Bosh on his team. The league leader in shots a game is Monta Ellis at 20.1. So he took 1.3 less shots then the league leader in shot attempts while playing 1.5 minutes less then Monta while having one of best scorers in the NBA in Wade on his team and Bosh a career 20ppg scorer in their primes. Also Lebron shoots 3 more free throws a game then the league leader in FGA per game which are often shots you missed that didn't count.

Then there is the pace of the game that comes into account. Well the Heat are 29th out of 30 in FGA per game as a team with 76.8 per game. Warriors are first with 85.9.

Not saying he shoots too much but looking at those numbers seems kinda funny to say he passed too much. Hey maybe he should shoot more, but statistically he seems to shoot plenty as he should.

I agree with some of the points you bring up, but the difference for me is that he is so much better than Monta Ellis. Lebron would be the #1 option on every single team.

I think he should pass a little less and look for his own shot a little more.

I also agree that he sometimes gives the ball up because he isn't as fresh during games because he has to play almost the whole game. He shouldn't have to play so many minutes with Wade and Bosh on the team

GreenHat wrote:

eureca20 wrote:Well you look at shooting stats in comparison to the rest of the league it doesn't look like he passes too much. He took 18.8 shots a game with Wade and Bosh on his team. The league leader in shots a game is Monta Ellis at 20.1. So he took 1.3 less shots then the league leader in shot attempts while playing 1.5 minutes less then Monta while having one of best scorers in the NBA in Wade on his team and Bosh a career 20ppg scorer in their primes. Also Lebron shoots 3 more free throws a game then the league leader in FGA per game which are often shots you missed that didn't count.

Then there is the pace of the game that comes into account. Well the Heat are 29th out of 30 in FGA per game as a team with 76.8 per game. Warriors are first with 85.9.

Not saying he shoots too much but looking at those numbers seems kinda funny to say he passed too much. Hey maybe he should shoot more, but statistically he seems to shoot plenty as he should.

I agree with some of the points you bring up, but the difference for me is that he is so much better than Monta Ellis. Lebron would be the #1 option on every single team.

I think he should pass a little less and look for his own shot a little more.

I also agree that he sometimes gives the ball up because he isn't as fresh during games because he has to play almost the whole game. He shouldn't have to play so many minutes with Wade and Bosh on the team

He also has much better teammates than Ellis and is playing for a contender where he shouldn't even have to attempt that many shots. I actually hope by adding another quality FA and just having guys like UD and (maybe) Miller healthy for the season, the Big Three won't have to attempt that many shots anymore and we'll have a little better balance.
In the beginning of last season, all of the Big Three were a little hesitant because they just had to get used each other, but down the stretch I thought they attempted enough shots and didn't really turn down good looks. You have to understand that when one of them is on fire, the other ones will automatically take a backseat and let that one player take over. When LeBron couldn't miss against the Magic, they let him keep shooting the ball, when D-Wade was on fire against the Knicks or Rockets, they let him do all the work. People get too caught up in these kinda things, when they've actually developed a nice feel for each other.

"He also has much better teammates than Ellis and is playing for a contender where he shouldn't even have to attempt that many shots. I actually hope by adding another quality FA and just having guys like UD and (maybe) Miller healthy for the season, the Big Three won't have to attempt that many shots anymore and we'll have a little better balance.
In the beginning of last season, all of the Big Three were a little hesitant because they just had to get used each other, but down the stretch I thought they attempted enough shots and didn't really turn down good looks. You have to understand that when one of them is on fire, the other ones will automatically take a backseat and let that one player take over. When LeBron couldn't miss against the Magic, they let him keep shooting the ball, when D-Wade was on fire against the Knicks or Rockets, they let him do all the work. People get too caught up in these kinda things, when they've actually developed a nice feel for each other."

DWadeno

True, but not shooting with the amount of minutes Lebron plays is a detriment. If Lebron played around 35 to probably 33 minutes, 18.8 shots per game he took last season would probably have been great.

From what we can gather from his actual court performance, is yes, Lebron will go from passiveness and aggressiveness late in games.

And if he knows he gotta play 40 plus minutes, he will coast some quarters to save his energy. And even with his coasting he is really still highly effective offensively. We seen Lebron coast in the finals and he still even got himself a trip-dub.

Looking at correlation from the amount of minutes and the amount of shots and just the eye-ball test. Lebron plays too many minutes for what he does on the court to be optimal and it affects his shot-selection and hurts his team in the points department.

CablexDeadpool wrote:"He also has much better teammates than Ellis and is playing for a contender where he shouldn't even have to attempt that many shots. I actually hope by adding another quality FA and just having guys like UD and (maybe) Miller healthy for the season, the Big Three won't have to attempt that many shots anymore and we'll have a little better balance.
In the beginning of last season, all of the Big Three were a little hesitant because they just had to get used each other, but down the stretch I thought they attempted enough shots and didn't really turn down good looks. You have to understand that when one of them is on fire, the other ones will automatically take a backseat and let that one player take over. When LeBron couldn't miss against the Magic, they let him keep shooting the ball, when D-Wade was on fire against the Knicks or Rockets, they let him do all the work. People get too caught up in these kinda things, when they've actually developed a nice feel for each other."

DWadeno

True, but not shooting with the amount of minutes Lebron plays is a detriment. If Lebron played around 35 to probably 33 minutes, 18.8 shots per game he took last season would probably have been great.

From what we can gather from his actual court performance, is yes, Lebron will go from passiveness and aggressiveness late in games.

And if he knows he gotta play 40 plus minutes, he will coast some quarters to save his energy. And even with his coasting he is really still highly effective offensively. We seen Lebron coast in the finals and he still even got himself a trip-dub.

Looking at correlation from the amount of minutes and the amount of shots and just the eye-ball test. Lebron plays too many minutes for what he does on the court to be optimal and it affects his shot-selection and hurts his team in the points department.

Thus, all we really need to do is limit his minutes. I could actually see both D-Wade and LeBron shoot an even higher FG% by simply playing less minutes but in the time they play be more aggressive, which is basically what you said and I agree with. Last season's numbers are not really a good indicator though because due to all of Wade's early injuries, they needed that much longer to get used to each other and their numbers were worse than they could've been. I expect both of them to be even more productive this year, given they stay relatively injury-free.

DWadeno3 wrote:

CablexDeadpool wrote:"He also has much better teammates than Ellis and is playing for a contender where he shouldn't even have to attempt that many shots. I actually hope by adding another quality FA and just having guys like UD and (maybe) Miller healthy for the season, the Big Three won't have to attempt that many shots anymore and we'll have a little better balance.
In the beginning of last season, all of the Big Three were a little hesitant because they just had to get used each other, but down the stretch I thought they attempted enough shots and didn't really turn down good looks. You have to understand that when one of them is on fire, the other ones will automatically take a backseat and let that one player take over. When LeBron couldn't miss against the Magic, they let him keep shooting the ball, when D-Wade was on fire against the Knicks or Rockets, they let him do all the work. People get too caught up in these kinda things, when they've actually developed a nice feel for each other."

DWadeno

True, but not shooting with the amount of minutes Lebron plays is a detriment. If Lebron played around 35 to probably 33 minutes, 18.8 shots per game he took last season would probably have been great.

From what we can gather from his actual court performance, is yes, Lebron will go from passiveness and aggressiveness late in games.

And if he knows he gotta play 40 plus minutes, he will coast some quarters to save his energy. And even with his coasting he is really still highly effective offensively. We seen Lebron coast in the finals and he still even got himself a trip-dub.

Looking at correlation from the amount of minutes and the amount of shots and just the eye-ball test. Lebron plays too many minutes for what he does on the court to be optimal and it affects his shot-selection and hurts his team in the points department.

Thus, all we really need to do his limits. I could actually see both D-Wade and LeBron shoot an even higher FG% by simply playing less minutes but in the time they play be more aggressive, which is basically what you said and I agree with. Last season's numbers are not really a good indicator though because due to all of Wade's early injuries, they needed that much longer to get used to each other and their numbers were worse than they could've been. I expect both of them to be even more productive this year, given they stay relatively injury-free.

I agree, with the defense Spo wants and it's very perimeter oriented, Heat really would benefit with all around players at the 2/3 position, that could play 15 to 20 mins.

Lebron passes to much? no he is a freaking triple double machine! It's not about his hidden stats it's about that killer instict he lacks. Let Lebron be himself he won two MVP's for a reason he is not Kevin Durant he is not one dimensional its not about that it's about heart soul and inner drive!

I know this man is a triple double machine, but he does pass too much SOMETIMES.

There have been times where he was unstoppable, there have also been times where he missed many shots.

One thing though, since he has been on the Heat he hasn't taken a massive amount of shots, and still be efficient. He has taken a bunch when he was on the Cavs, he was the one and only option, which makes sense with his 30+ scoring ppg.

There have been times however, where we would scream at our TV's to score and he passes. We don't know if he thinks the other guy has a better look, or he didn't want to really take the shot. And I'm talking about the Finals. HE took like 10-13 shots a game and that is NOT him.

Basically what I"m saying is he passes too much at the wrong time. :| But it was only 1 series, I mean he averaged 27 points efficiently... can't pass for 82 games so much and make those kind of points.

DefenseWins wrote:I know this man is a triple double machine, but he does pass too much SOMETIMES.

There have been times where he was unstoppable, there have also been times where he missed many shots.

One thing though, since he has been on the Heat he hasn't taken a massive amount of shots, and still be efficient. He has taken a bunch when he was on the Cavs, he was the one and only option, which makes sense with his 30+ scoring ppg.

There have been times however, where we would scream at our TV's to score and he passes. We don't know if he thinks the other guy has a better look, or he didn't want to really take the shot. And I'm talking about the Finals. HE took like 10-13 shots a game and that is NOT him.

Basically what I"m saying is he passes too much at the wrong time. :| But it was only 1 series, I mean he averaged 27 points efficiently... can't pass for 82 games so much and make those kind of points.

Lebron if you look at him, really is a chronic overpasser, he really rather pass the ball to someone else than take the shot for himself.

The problem with Lebron is that he can take probably 24 shots a game and still be efficient.

That's why he's an overshooter, Lebron could be the best scorer of all time just on his style of play of getting to the hoop, getting the foul line, the strength to power through defenders.

Even when Lebron did get 30 per game, which was idk, 2 times in his career, he was still around 48 to 50 percent.

Dude is just a monster like that.

And the finals, dude was tired, Spo rode him to death. And he was the defacto point guard in the Finals.

Lebron did take less shots on the Heat but it wasn't that much. I didn't notice any significant difference.

He did really seem tired though. He needs less minutes.

Yes, he does need less minutes. This shortened season really benefits the Heat. I know they'd have more back to back games, but it's still not a full season.

Yeah thinking about it we wanted him to score and pass and he just did not have the energy.

Hopefully Rio or Cole surprises, Wade and LBJ can be more deadly off the ball. They're so predictable (when they are not willing to pass), it's just... terrible.

DefenseWins wrote:Yes, he does need less minutes. This shortened season really benefits the Heat. I know they'd have more back to back games, but it's still not a full season.

Yeah thinking about it we wanted him to score and pass and he just did not have the energy.

Hopefully Rio or Cole surprises, Wade and LBJ can be more deadly off the ball. They're so predictable (when they are not willing to pass), it's just... terrible.

It be great to have a point guard running the team. I think Norris Cole could be the guy, he seems to be real mature and grounded enough to handle it.

I just don't know how much room is in the offense for having 3 guys that really need the ball in their hands.

But if the Heat pulls off getting Nene, the offense would open up soooooooooooooooo much that we won't see the same damn pick and rolls and isos that everybody knows is coming.

Pulling for Nene