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ok so my other thread got locked. im going to take out anything at all that from my previous post that could even possibly get this locked. and i hope there is some good, intelligent, well backed replies

"hey guys, my board is blowing up over getting d12, when he doesnt even want to come to us and i dont want his ass. id rather win without him. so it made me think....the history of the heat. i was a hugeeee glen rice/steve smith fan. then of course i hated the heat during the mashburn/zo (even though he is one of my favs) battles we had. see: lump on pippens forehead. but then i loved wade and really wanted him to come home etc. thought he was very underrated and wanted him over lebron too. which brings me to my question...

are there any of you heat fans that are rooting for your team but DONT like the players on the team? any of you that didnt want lebron? or maybe bosh. would have still rather have wade/amare and lee etc? i know i didnt and still dont want rip hamilton, and may cheer if a shot is made but certainly wont cheer for him for intros etc. thats apples and oranges i know comparing talent, but i also went on record saying i didnt want lbj because i wasnt a fan of the entourage and behaviors. wade, who was prob my fav player pre-rose, along with garnett, seems to have changed a lot too. is there anyone that doesnt like wade that did or perhaps even started to like other teams? or that cant believe comparisons between mj and lbj when he got there? i know a lot of fans never liked chalmers etc. but i like udonis and think bosh should be willing to start at the 5 against most teams to get haslem more minutes. again this is aimed toward LONG time miami fans OR fans that are recent but can state their opinion without baiting me/making me look like a troll. cause sometimes, you just DONT like your own players/would have rather won with the players you had/dislike like your team. jalen rose, ron mercer... shudder. trust me, i know. hope this didnt offend anyone, wasnt meant to. discuss?


basically...."Hi long time Heat fans, I have a controversial question to ask but I mean no harm. I'm wondering if you ever found it difficult to support these players or if you've been able to easily embrace them as members of the Heat family. Have you disagreed with anyone of the publicity or backlash they've received?"

I was never a huge Jamal Mashburn fan, didn't really like him while he was here. Unequivocally loved Zo and Timmy though.

I liked Brian Grant and Anthony Mason but felt bad they didn't get what they signed up for. That would've been an amazing frontcourt next to Zo.

Wade/Odom/Butler/EJ I've always had a soft spot for. Felt bad for EJ more than anything when it came to his inability to be "the man", because you could tell it just wasn't in him, but he truly loved this city.

I had fun with Shaq. I don't really hold any grudges against him, to me its like a relationship with a hot girl that you knew had no future and just tried to get the most out of while you could.

Never liked Jason Williams or Antoine Walker much. The annoying part about these two was they weren't even that good and yet still had player fans, J-Will pretty much just because he was flashy and white, and I don't know why anyone would like Antoine.

Didn't really like Gary Payton while he was here either, just never seemed to fit. He was in the Juwan Howard stage of his career, but never seemed to acknowledge it, although he did hit a couple big shots in the Finals so he gets kudos for that. It was the following season where my patience wore thin with him.

I felt bad for Beasley, but never really liked him that much. Too moody for my tastes. I think his fans and apologists got on my nerves more than anything though, I would like to see Beasley have a nice career from here on out.

I was always kind of neutral about LeBron before he came, sort of thought he was a bit of an arrogant jerk (which he still kinda is), but thought most of the hate he got was undeserved, petty and childish, mostly coming from Lakers fans (Jay from LA, I love ya, but there are a lot of awful bandwagoners for the Lakers). Now I gotta say I'm happy for LeBron. I still like Wade a bit better, but I don't mind LeBron at all.

I think your general point is you dislike Dwight now, so you don't want him on your team. I'd say, don't knock it til you try it. Perceptions can totally change when you see a guy every other night for 82 games as opposed to 2-4 times a year or when they get press in the national media.

Also, to your point about Smith/Rice or how you've perceived Dwyane to change, its a lot easier to like really nice players that don't win too much. When they start winning, they all seem like jerks. Wade, KG, they were always the same guys, people just got tired of seeing them all the time. Kinda like #23, or Rose will become if he keeps winning with the Bulls.

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:I was never a huge Jamal Mashburn fan, didn't really like him while he was here. Unequivocally loved Zo and Timmy though.

I liked Brian Grant and Anthony Mason but felt bad they didn't get what they signed up for. That would've been an amazing frontcourt next to Zo.

Wade/Odom/Butler/EJ I've always had a soft spot for. Felt bad for EJ more than anything when it came to his inability to be "the man", because you could tell it just wasn't in him, but he truly loved this city.

I had fun with Shaq. I don't really hold any grudges against him, to me its like a relationship with a hot girl that you knew had no future and just tried to get the most out of while you could.

Never liked Jason Williams or Antoine Walker much. The annoying part about these two was they weren't even that good and yet still had player fans, J-Will pretty much just because he was flashy and white, and I don't know why anyone would like Antoine.

Didn't really like Gary Payton while he was here either, just never seemed to fit. He was in the Juwan Howard stage of his career, but never seemed to acknowledge it, although he did hit a couple big shots in the Finals so he gets kudos for that. It was the following season where my patience wore thin with him.

I felt bad for Beasley, but never really liked him that much. Too moody for my tastes. I think his fans and apologists got on my nerves more than anything though, I would like to see Beasley have a nice career from here on out.

I was always kind of neutral about LeBron before he came, sort of thought he was a bit of an arrogant jerk (which he still kinda is), but thought most of the hate he got was undeserved, petty and childish, mostly coming from Lakers fans (Jay from LA, I love ya, but there are a lot of awful bandwagoners for the Lakers). Now I gotta say I'm happy for LeBron. I still like Wade a bit better, but I don't mind LeBron at all.

I think your general point is you dislike Dwight now, so you don't want him on your team. I'd say, don't knock it til you try it. Perceptions can totally change when you see a guy every other night for 82 games as opposed to 2-4 times a year or when they get press in the national media.

Also, to your point about Smith/Rice or how you've perceived Dwyane to change, its a lot easier to like really nice players that don't win too much. When they start winning, they all seem like jerks. Wade, KG, they were always the same guys, people just got tired of seeing them all the time. Kinda like #23, or Rose will become if he keeps winning with the Bulls.

thanks! i really dont have a reply to what you said, i think it speaks for itself.

but ive always like toine. but i think you ask a valid question. how can i? lol. chicago pride i guess.
him + tim + curry = all chicago guys

i really do have to say i think zo was really underrated and that him in his prime is MUCH better than howard will ever be. unfortunately he played with the big boys. dwight is playing against nobody, because the bigs (oden, bynum etc) are always injured. but i really, really appreciate your post.

kg- was my favorite player but you are right, maybe he was that way all along, i just didnt see enough of minne to know. as for wade- i guess my issue is how he has been toward chicago, so my dislike for him is different than it is for lebron. i could care less about lebron. i can indeed only go by what i see, like you said. but i was really pulling for wade, and i felt like he turned his back on chicago and not because he didnt sign here. i was really hoping they could build a good team around him, like him and amare, i wanted to see him get another ring (if the bulls didnt of course). though i feel like fans like yourself, would have wished wade well if he had come here to pair with rose, i dont feel the same well wishes towards him now, and im sure you can understand. but i just wanted to see the guys that remember the days of ike austin felt about your new team haha. thanks tim.

I'm much younger than Tim_Hardawayy so my history of Miami Heat basketball doesn't reach as far back, but I'm somewhat with him on most players. I didn't like Toine, I hated J-Will and his great shot selection, I was really annoyed by all the Beasley lovers, I'm somewhat neutral towards Shaq, I obviously love D-Wade, Zo and UD and what I know about Tim Hardaway, Steve Smith and Brian Grant and like Butler and LO a lot. I also kind of enjoyed all the Jones's we've had and still currently have (Eddie, Damon and James).

As for LeBron, I never liked anything about him before he came to Miami but have to say that character wise, I was too caught up in the bs the media was creating about him. He's actually a generously good guy and as a person, I love him on our team. Basketball wise, I've never been a fan of the way he plays the game and probably never will be, but as long he's playing well and we're winning, it's not really bothering me. It annoys me, however, how it's always in extremes with him. You have his fans, who defend him to death and can be really annoying at times, but you also have a ton of irrational haters who disrespect him any chance they get, which really pisses me off as well. I doubt that'll ever change though.

Regarding Bosh, I truly enjoy him on our team. He's not your typical basketball player, but a very intelligent and refreshingly different guy.

As for Howard, I understand if you don't like him, I'm not his biggest fan either, but he's a great player and that's all that should matter to you. As long as he improves your team, which he really does, roll with the success. Trust me, at the end of the day nothing is sweeter than winning and who knows, maybe at the end of the day you'll actually enjoy him on your team.

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:I was never a huge Jamal Mashburn fan, didn't really like him while he was here. Unequivocally loved Zo and Timmy though.

I liked Brian Grant and Anthony Mason but felt bad they didn't get what they signed up for. That would've been an amazing frontcourt next to Zo.

Wade/Odom/Butler/EJ I've always had a soft spot for. Felt bad for EJ more than anything when it came to his inability to be "the man", because you could tell it just wasn't in him, but he truly loved this city.

I had fun with Shaq. I don't really hold any grudges against him, to me its like a relationship with a hot girl that you knew had no future and just tried to get the most out of while you could.

Never liked Jason Williams or Antoine Walker much. The annoying part about these two was they weren't even that good and yet still had player fans, J-Will pretty much just because he was flashy and white, and I don't know why anyone would like Antoine.

Didn't really like Gary Payton while he was here either, just never seemed to fit. He was in the Juwan Howard stage of his career, but never seemed to acknowledge it, although he did hit a couple big shots in the Finals so he gets kudos for that. It was the following season where my patience wore thin with him.

I felt bad for Beasley, but never really liked him that much. Too moody for my tastes. I think his fans and apologists got on my nerves more than anything though, I would like to see Beasley have a nice career from here on out.

I was always kind of neutral about LeBron before he came, sort of thought he was a bit of an arrogant jerk (which he still kinda is), but thought most of the hate he got was undeserved, petty and childish, mostly coming from Lakers fans (Jay from LA, I love ya, but there are a lot of awful bandwagoners for the Lakers). Now I gotta say I'm happy for LeBron. I still like Wade a bit better, but I don't mind LeBron at all.

I think your general point is you dislike Dwight now, so you don't want him on your team. I'd say, don't knock it til you try it. Perceptions can totally change when you see a guy every other night for 82 games as opposed to 2-4 times a year or when they get press in the national media.

Also, to your point about Smith/Rice or how you've perceived Dwyane to change, its a lot easier to like really nice players that don't win too much. When they start winning, they all seem like jerks. Wade, KG, they were always the same guys, people just got tired of seeing them all the time. Kinda like #23, or Rose will become if he keeps winning with the Bulls.

oh and i will say, that yeah, i know jordan was a jerk really, in that kobe kinda jerk way i suppose, and then there are nice guys like rice, smitty and all like you said. but i do have to say, ive never in my life, EVER seen a ball player like derrick in terms of personality. ever. so ill be curious to see what happens in ten years when most the titles have been split by the bulls and heat to see how he is as a person. if you havent had a chance to check out this press conference from his signing, i would recommend it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veIT2SBbX34 "mom we made it"

DWadeno3 wrote:I'm much younger than Tim_Hardawayy so my history of Miami Heat basketball doesn't reach as far back, but I'm somewhat with him on most players. I didn't like Toine, I hated J-Will and his great shot selection, I was really annoyed by all the Beasley lovers, I'm somewhat neutral towards Shaq, I obviously love D-Wade, Zo and UD and what I know about Tim Hardaway, Steve Smith and Brian Grant and like Butler and LO a lot. I also kind of enjoyed all the Jones's we've had and still currently have (Eddie, Damon and James).

As for LeBron, I never liked anything about him before he came to Miami but have to say that character wise, I was too caught up in the bs the media was creating about him. He's actually a generously good guy and as a person, I love him on our team. Basketball wise, I've never been a fan of the way he plays the game and probably never will be, but as long he's playing well and we're winning, it's not really bothering me. It annoys me, however, how it's always in extremes with him. You have his fans, who defend him to death and can be really annoying at times, but you also have a ton of irrational haters who disrespect him any chance they get, which really pisses me off as well. I doubt that'll ever change though.

Regarding Bosh, I truly enjoy him on our team. He's not your typical basketball player, but a very intelligent and refreshingly different guy.

As for Howard, I understand if you don't like him, I'm not his biggest fan either, but he's a great player and that's all that should matter to you. As long as he improves your team, which he really does, roll with the success. Trust me, at the end of the day nothing is sweeter than winning and who knows, maybe at the end of the day you'll actually enjoy him on your team.

lol winning is sweet, trust me, i remember the first 6! you know, with bosh, i actually dont mind him, he IS soft, as even the heat board says but i mean if he was next TO a guy like howard. that would be just sick the way they could play inside and out, i think he could be great with a complimentary player. trust me though, eddy curry isnt gonna cut it. been there lol. though i wish eddy well. when he played in 2001 in the illinois state final, my high school i was going to beat them for the state championship so i guess ive always kinda felt connected or well wishing for him in that way. you are the first guy ive seen that says they dont like HOW bron plays vs like who he is. kudos to that. and thanks for your reply overall. this is totally what i was looking for!

I never liked Kevin Willis because we traded Steve Smith (my favorite player) for him.

I always thought Beasley and Chalmers weren't good for each other and Spo didn't know how to control Beasley nor maximize his talent. Never had a problem with Beasley himself, but Minny was a much better situation for him.

I liked Antoine Walker, but just because everyone else hated him lol. Gary Payton would annoy me a few times, but that was mostly because of his spats with Wade.

I actually didn't like LeBron until he got to the Heat and I was still looking for any reason him to blame him for the Heat's mistakes last season. Mostly, because I hate his post game comments after the Celtics-Cavs series and how people always overlooked Wade when it came to player comparisons.

I didn't know much about Bosh nor his character until he signed, but I always wanted him in Miami since 2008-09 season when we played the Raptors. I think he's interesting, probably the most relatable, but I still worry how he fits in with the team mentally. He seems like the youngest brother trying to keep up with the older brothers, rather than just doing is own thing.

if you didnt want them to come how are you a real fan of your team? they give you the best chance to win and if they dont come you lose wade too and are in rebuild...

I can't remember who said it here, but this sums up how I feel:
"Lebron's a douche, but he's OUR douche now!"

You root for your tea, regardless of who's on the team. Some players you love, some you don't.

Grifin32 wrote:

YES!! Although I couldn't stand him and his tippy toe three pointers. I do miss having James Posey around although from the the looks of how little we play James Jones, I doubt Posey would get much at this point anyway. I loved Zo and Hardaway but that just goes with the territory. I hated Beasley and all the BS he brought around him and never stepping up to the moment. But I was a big Wright fan and was sad to see him go, but knew he had to make the big bucks. I also had my moments with Cook as he also had his moments shooting the ball. J-Will didn't bother too much in 06 it was after that and he'd launch threes carelessly that made me dislike him, but I think him and Payton did a good job in 06. To me for loyal Heat fans the new Zo/Hardaway has turned into Wade/Haslem. Haslem is the heart and sole of this team, and I love the dedication, and intensity that he brings to the team. Also the fact that he'll defend his players all day, and never back down from anyone (Jermaine O'neal included).

Heat3 wrote:I never liked Kevin Willis because we traded Steve Smith (my favorite player) for him.

He is also one of the coolest guys you'll ever meet.Him & John Sally.


In Willis behalf he did kill us the previous year in the playoffs.

My first favorite player was Rice. But I really became a heat fan when it was Zo and Hardaway's team.

For me it was strange getting Lebron but once he is on the team it is hard not to root for him. The guy plays as hard as anyone in the league on a nightly basis and has done some great things for this franchise in little over a year being a part of it. I am still a much bigger fan of Wade though as I would assume any Heat fan would be.

But to answer your question I root for the team. Sometimes you don't like player's like a Walker or a Mashburn but you still want the Heat to succeed so you pull for them when they are on the team. The only time I was a bit unfair in this respect was with Shaq. I always ripped Shaq mainly cause I wanted to see more of Zo in 06. It was irrational but Zo is awesome and Shaq I dislike, although I respect what he did for the franchise.

As a Heat fan you really have your core heat guys and than you have a guy like Lebron which in time may become a fan favorite but it takes time.

I loved G-Money, but I was too young to fully follow the team as I was very little still. I met Ronny Seikaly in International Mall though, in a JC Penny I think it was.

Timmy Hardaway and Zo teams - Loved them. Guys like Voshon Leonard, Mashburn, PJ Brown (THE ENFORCER!), Dan Majerle (hit that 3 game winner to be 1 of the 10 losses of the 72-10 bulls), loved those guys. Back when Michael Jordan retired in '98, I remember the local news down here in Miami interviewed the Heat players and Dan Majerle was asked "Do you think Jordan should come back for another year?" and Majerle made a mean face and said "NO, give someone else a chance to win!" ahhahaa.

Lamar Odom, Dwyane Wade team - Loved that team and everyone on it.

The Wade-Shaq team with Eddie Jones, Damon Jones -

eh, I didn't like Amon Ones. Cause he got no D and no J ! remember that joke about damon? Always putting up those 3 fingers and his "i'm the best shooter in the world"... he was just an annoying clown trying to sell an image that he couldn't cash on the court.

I also remember Damon Jones trying to steal the spotlight in the playoffs and failing hard, and Shaq didn't like it when he gave the game away. Also, when DJ went to the Cavaliers, he did the same thing and almost lost the game for them and Varejao punched him in the face while giving LBJ a "hug" in a playoff win.

Really didn't like DJ but i could cheer for them cause they my team.

Eddie Jones on the other hand, class act, good guy. Shaq didn't like him tho, and some people actually believed EJ had a curse on him lol.


The 2006 team - Huge J-WILL fan from when he got drafted by the Kings. Too bad he had crap between his ears. I truly believe he was a once in a generation type of talent, but he squandered it. So it was easy for me to cheer for him in a HEAT jersey.

Antoine? Didn't care either way. I did catch myself cheering for him to use the SHIMMY more. Cheered for him.

I absolutely despise Shaq in 2008 (his final season here), but before that I cheered for the guy.

Never liked Michael Beasley but he was young and dumb, so I understood he is still immature. Was upset that we were stuck with him though. I remember Wade wanted Derrick Rose, not Beasley. Those lotto balls were garbage that year.

HOWEVER, if we had gotten Rose, we would probably had never been able to sign the big 3. So I don't know. It all worked out. Best of luck to Beasley. Minnesota got a free #2 overall pick that is a legitimate 25 ppg scorer. I'm surprised Riley had such a hard time unloading Beasley for free.

Rice and Grant Long. Those were the days. Then, Zo came along and changed the Heat to a team that competes. Then, there was excitement. Can anyone remember Harold Miner?

BadMofoPimp wrote:Rice and Grant Long. Those were the days. Then, Zo came along and changed the Heat to a team that competes. Then, there was excitement. Can anyone remember Harold Miner?

I remember him touching stuff with his nose and rubbing his fingers together next his ear because he liked the sound it made. I remember a lot of hype.

Been watching the heat since 95 and one reason why I chose my name to be Heat_finsfan is because I am a fan of the Team and not a particular player. In some years this team might be totally different and I will cheer for anyone on it even if they were former celtics/knicks/bulls which I currently hate. Anyone who is on my team I will try and embrace, not saying I wont criticize them for playing bad or doing stupid things. Over the years I have liked just about all the players we have had, never hated a player in particular for the way they are even though I might hate them if they are on the other team. I did get frustrated by a few like walker or Chris Quinn, but never hated them.

I've been watching the Heat since '03. I absolutely fell in love with that team (Wade's rookie year team) with guys like Odom, Wade, Grant, C. Butler, R. Butler, E. Jones, etc. We started the year 0-7 and went on to the second round of the playoffs.

Than '04-'05, the excitement with Shaq coming and I actually liked the team a lot but wasn't a big Damon Jones fan.

'05-'06, was obviously the greatest year in Heat history. Didn't like Antoine Walker AT ALL, but loved the vets we picked up in Payton, J-Will, Posey, and obviously my favorite NBA player of all time Alonzo Mourning. That year was frustrating at times (remember 30+ point loss to Mavs in reg. season and when we went 0-2 in the Finals), but it was definitely worth it in the end going to that parade.

'06-'07 was tough. It was practically the same team and we lost to the Bulls on ring ceremony game by like 40 and got swept by them in the first round of the playoffs. It pretty much showed that we weren't going to get any better with that team and that tough times were ahead.

'07-'08 was hard to swallow. I was always a Heat fan and would watch every game no matter what. But 15-67 along with Wade being injured. Shaq was injured and he was traded. Ricky Davis was our "closer" and couldn't hit a big shot.. I honestly hated everyone on that team (except for UD and Zo). It was a tough year, but we were hopeful of landing the #1 spot in the draft and drafting D. Rose..

'08-'09 was a HUGE sigh of relief. Wade came back better than ever and was the scoring champion (30.2 ppg). We got the #2 pick and had to settle with drafting Beasley. We made it to the playoffs with a 43-39 record and halfway through the year picked up JO and Moon. I honestly was disappointed in our draft but Beas was alright. And I actually liked that team a lot. Forced a game 7 against ATL in the playoffs.

'09-'10 was all about out 1 year contracts (lol). Wade, Haslem, JO, Moon, Jones, Cook, Wright, Richardson, Anthony, Arroyo, Magloire, were all free agents. We only had Beasley and Chalmers under contract, so we were concerned with Wade and where he would end up signing or else Beasley would've been our best player.

'10-'11 was the most stressful but exciting season I've witnessed. With the media circus, hate, backlash, high expectations, "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7...", 9-8 start, bumpgate, crygate, not being able to beat elite teams, couldn't close games, etc. It was just such a crazy year. Playoffs roll around and our first round was ok enough to beat the 76ers. Than Boston came and everyone and their mothers mentioned that fact that we went 1-3 in the regular season against Boston and that we couldn't win. On to the ECF against the Bulls, and honestly it was one of the most exciting series' I've seen. Than we went into the Finals with high expectations, and got our dreams crushed. But when we got LeBron and Bosh to sign with Wade, I knew it would take time and patience.