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Heat won't win it with the way they play defense

Let me use the NFL to prove my point.

The way the Heat play defense is equivalent to a team having the Giants defensive line and Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha as cornerbacks and Patrick Willis and Clay Matthews as Linebackers.

The defensive coordinator plays press tight man to man defense with no safety help over the top and blitzes every single down, no matter if it is 1st and 10 or 3rd and 20.

Now of course this would be a dominant defense and destroy half the league, and would work 70 percent of the time. It's big fast aggressive and athletic and skilled enough to just blow teams out of the water.

But it's easy to beat, there's no safety over the top, the constant blitzing leaves the flats open, screen play would destroy the defense.

So you got a defense that is constantly aggressive going for the big play, the big sack, the big interception, the big run stuff.

But then what about their offense, lets say they have Adrian Peterson and Calvin Johnson...but Mark Sanchez at quarterback.

So you have big time playmakers at the WR and RB but a wildly inconsistent quarterback. So you never know what you gonna get from Mark Sanchez, one day he looks like Peyton Manning, next day he looks like he don't know wtf he's doing.

So your offense can not consistently support your defense. Your defense is killing a team for 2 quarters, and then your defense gives up a few big plays in the 3rd and 4th quarter, and next thing you know it's a ball game again because your offense hasn't been all that consistent in the 2nd half.

You got Mark Sanchez as your quarterback and he's screwing it up and now it's tied. You was up by 2 scores and now you are tied with 5 minutes to go in the 4th and you been killing the opposing team, lets say the Bengals, all damn game.

You been demoralizing the Bengals, big time interceptions, big time run stuffs, big time sacks. But it takes a few big plays for the Bengals and they right back in it.

The team with the Giants defensive line, with Nnamdi and Revis and Clay Mathews and Patrick Willis, with Adrian Peterson and Calvin Johnson is getting torched by the damn Bengals.

This is how the Heat would play if it was an NFL team. Heat defensively look for the big play every single possession defensively. It doesn't matter if they are up by 15 or down by 5.

The Spo got the Heat ballhawking and trapping yet everything is open on perimeter. And lesser teams really do play bad for about 2 1/2 quarters beccause it is imposing.

It's constant aggression, it's constant being trapped and big time athletes in your face all game. But, everything is open. If you look beyond all the traps and all the pressures in the half court, you got wide open shots.

The Heat offense is extremely inconsistent outside of Lebron and Wade. Lebron is the guy that holds the offense together, Wade provides the spark and the aggression. Everybody else on the team just gotta chip in some points...but they are not good consistent offensive players. Bosh is just Bosh, he comes and he goes as he pleases on the offensive side.

Spo is gambling on defense every single game, and he's just like the defensive coordinator with the stacked defense, he doesn't care what the situation is, he's going for the big play so he can get back on offense. He's just hoping the opposing team will not hit that open 20 foot jumpshot and the open 3s he gives up.

Spo defensive gameplan is, "If you gonna beat us, you gonna have show us what you got because I ain't changing a damn thing. We gonna put pressure on you all game and not let up. We dare you to try and beat us."

Heat's offense can't back Spo's boldness up.

We already won a championship playing this type of defense

When we want to play defense, it's the best in the league.

Edit: last year it was best in the league when we wanted to, and now with a healthy UD and batter coming off the bench it's even better

Heat3 wrote:We already won a championship playing this type of defense

Except back then we had these guys named Shaq and Alonzo to help anchor our defense.

I mostly agree with the OP but I personally feel offensively we've taken 2 steps forward yet a step back defensively. Our defense gambles and double reams too much which always leads to an open shot on the perimeter. Then before you know it the Heat start rapidly losing their lead thanks to too many uncontested 3's... How many times have we seen this happen already in just 10 games? Its too inconsistent and it won't work in the playoffs against good jump shooting teams. Its gonna be Dallas all over again at this rate.

there is no Dallas this year! we are flawed because we do not have an intimidator on defense to cover up gambles. Our defense will demoralize most teams and to beat us you have to beat us four times Here is the truth. We lost to the only team that could beat us because of the matchup. If we score down the stretch, Lebron hits his free throw and dorell who always tries to prove he should still be here (i agree) was hot we win last night. This is the best team in the NBA and the irony is we are getting better!

Heat are 8-2 and number 2 in defense so far,save the overreaction threads for the playoffs.

i think the Heat will be fine. You have a roster full of players who want to play defense and have something to prove. Let's see what happens

our defense isnt the problem as much as our offense. Sometimes we just cant find a way to keep scoring, we start taking bad shots and turning the ball over, pick up offensive fouls, stop passing and fail to fight for boards.

Chosen01 wrote:Heat are 8-2 and number 2 in defense so far,save the overreaction threads for the playoffs.

wtf the Heat got beat by the Mavs the same way. The Heat could've beaten the Mavs easily if they would've just stuck on their man.

Mavs were getting their ass handed to them every single game in the first games of the series and the Jason Terry went off because all those open shots he was missing, he started hitting them and that was the end of it. They rained 3s like it was no 2morrow, and it was demoralizing.

The Heat can't score at will, it's that simple. They are inconsistent on offense. So why give up wide open 3s to 3point shooting teams? You can't keep up with them for 4 quarters. After Lebron and Wade hit 60 points combined, that's the end of it, they aren't scoring anymore, there is only one basketball and the bench gotta step up. If the bench isn't going 20 to 25 a game, the Heat struggle.




The regular Season doesn't matter, seeding doesn't matter, when it comes to it, this is just practice and they haven't improved at all defensively, they play the same way no matter who's playing them.

I swear it could be a team with larry bird, pistol pete, ray allen, steve kerr, john paxson, dirk and they would still leave them wide open, because they don't wanna give a up a layup, but they give teams practice 3s.

This isn't overreaction, I been said the defense sucks and it's overrated, because they pad stats against teams who suck offensively with no type of 3 point shooting, but when they run into deep teams who are just as athletic and can physically keep up, they are getting their ass handed to them in the 4th.

indiegrind wrote:our defense isnt the problem as much as our offense. Sometimes we just cant find a way to keep scoring, we start taking bad shots and turning the ball over, pick up offensive fouls, stop passing and fail to fight for boards.

The defense is the problem because the defense puts 2 much pressure on the offense. Offense if Defense and Defense is Offense.

You can't keep a lead if you are not scoring, you can't get a lead if you not stopping the other team from scoring.

You can not play that way and win consistently against a good shooting team.

Heat can get away with playing this way against say the Bulls, the Bucks, the Kings, the Raptors, the Knicks, New Orleans, Hawks, Wizards, and the Lakers.

There are not enough shooters, scorers and athletes on those teams that will actually put pressure on the Heat to out score them.

But you go against GSW, Magic with their shooters, OKC, the Twolves, the Clippers, the Bobcats, 76ers they can give the Heat a run for their money.

There's a capacity to how much the Heat can score with the Big 3, it's up to the bench to add the necessary 20 to 25 points to maintain a lead, and when they fail, the Heat fail.

The bench was terrible last night and you saw what happened when they don't chip in offensively.

Offense is just as good and even better when trying to maintain a lead in the 4th, you stop scoring and you play this style of defense and you are gonna lose. It's that simple.

The Heat choked in the finals, you can talk about Jason terry and Dirk going off but they thought they won the game and Dallas came back.

They were 2 quarters away from winning the title, it's as simple as that.As much as this system annoys me as well, it has won the Heat a title previously.

Chosen01 wrote:The Heat choked in the finals, you can talk about Jason terry and Dirk going off but they thought they won the game and Dallas came back.

They were 2 quarters away from winning the title, it's as simple as that.As much as this system annoys me as well, it has won the Heat a title previously.

Do you seriously think the Heat were supposed to beat the Mavs in 2005, it took DWade having an epic Finals and some really bad play by the Mavs.


The Heat didn't choke the Finals, they got their ass handed to them because they reached their peak.

They couldn't heroball anymore, they were not getting anymore lucky 30ft 3pointers, the magic was done, when it comes down to simple numbers and simple facts, the Heat are not that good offensively to outscore really good shooting teams with the way they play defense.

That defense wasn't gonna work against the Mavs period who were hot the entire playoffs, when has it ever worked with good 3point shooting teams?

How is it a good idea to just leave shooters wide open?

Especially when the Mavs were playing the Heat straight up, no easy shots, no easy layups, nothing easy .

Mavs were missing all types of wide open shots in the Finals, Jason was terribad missing shots.

Let the Heat run into OKC in the Finals with James Harden, Daquan Cook and Kevin Durant, or let the Heat run into the Celtics with Rondo and Ray Allen or the Magic with their shooters.

The Heat defense will get opposed for what it is like last year. It's a shallow empty intimidation defense that tries to bully and gamble on if a team with hit a wide open 3.

CablexDeadpool wrote:

Chosen01 wrote:Heat are 8-2 and number 2 in defense so far,save the overreaction threads for the playoffs.

wtf the Heat got beat by the Mavs the same way. The Heat could've beaten the Mavs easily if they would've just stuck on their man.

Mavs were getting their ass handed to them every single game in the first games of the series and the Jason Terry went off because all those open shots he was missing, he started hitting them and that was the end of it. They rained 3s like it was no 2morrow, and it was demoralizing.

The Heat can't score at will, it's that simple. They are inconsistent on offense. So why give up wide open 3s to 3point shooting teams? You can't keep up with them for 4 quarters. After Lebron and Wade hit 60 points combined, that's the end of it, they aren't scoring anymore, there is only one basketball and the bench gotta step up. If the bench isn't going 20 to 25 a game, the Heat struggle.




The regular Season doesn't matter, seeding doesn't matter, when it comes to it, this is just practice and they haven't improved at all defensively, they play the same way no matter who's playing them.

I swear it could be a team with larry bird, pistol pete, ray allen, steve kerr, john paxson, dirk and they would still leave them wide open, because they don't wanna give a up a layup, but they give teams practice 3s.

This isn't overreaction, I been said the defense sucks and it's overrated, because they pad stats against teams who suck offensively with no type of 3 point shooting, but when they run into deep teams who are just as athletic and can physically keep up, they are getting their ass handed to them in the 4th.

I understand exactly what U R talking about

I co-sign indiegrind's post, it's been too many times down the stretch that we throw away offensive possessions; they're so scared of screwing up out there that they cave, It's pathetic.

Kinetic Pyro wrote:I co-sign indiegrind's post, it's been too many times down the stretch that we throw away offensive possessions; they're so scared of screwing up out there that they cave, It's pathetic.

They run into a bad stretch where the opposing team is getting hot and the Heat are being played straight up, no easy baskets, no transition scoring, no post scoring and they gotta make something happen and it's 3 minutes left.

And by this time, everybody is having a bad game and it's just gonna be hard to score.

"I understand exactly what U R talking about"

-WD

I know you do, you see it too. It's nothing to do with defensive intensity or offensive prowess, it's the scheme. It just doesn't work. I never seen any basketball team play like this before against a team with known shooters.

CablexDeadpool wrote:

Kinetic Pyro wrote:I co-sign indiegrind's post, it's been too many times down the stretch that we throw away offensive possessions; they're so scared of screwing up out there that they cave, It's pathetic.

They run into a bad stretch where the opposing team is getting hot and the Heat are being played straight up, no easy baskets, no transition scoring, no post scoring and they gotta make something happen and it's 3 minutes left.

And by this time, everybody is having a bad game and it's just gonna be hard to score.

"I understand exactly what U R talking about"

-WD

I know you do, you see it too. It's nothing to do with defensive intensity or offensive prowess, it's the scheme. It just doesn't work. I never seen any basketball team play like this before against a team with known shooters.

While watching the game on LP, the announcer said in a "matter of fact" way - that "this is pat rileys system eric is running" It's just an old system that has been here since Pat Riley came here, it had it's run, and it worked a little in the championship win, because "ZO" the master executioner of THAT SYSTEM was here, now it looks awful with the players we've had since ZO. That's the main reason ERIC likes JOEL so much, he's the closet person on this team that can emulate this.........

Hang IN There

Krylo Fesenko.

There are two problems with our current defensive system:

a) It used to work well for Riley because in his days, we had true centers in the paint to protect the rim much better. In last night's game and in the Warriors game, we sometimes had Battier or Wade down in the paint guarding a big because we played small ball and were forced to rotate in a way which created this matchup. On our championship team, we always had a legit center in the paint (either Zo or Shaq). This allowed us to rotate a lot more on the wings while still having somebody down low to keep all the wings out of the paint. Thus, while this system in itself can work, we're not adjusting it properly to our personnel, which leads me to the second problem.

b) Against some teams, this system obviously looks good because they're not good outside shooting teams. Against others, such as Dallas or a hot-shooting GSW team, it can be exposed. If you want to run with this system at all costs, at least realize to adjust depending on how the games goes. You can't continue to offer a team wide open threes that's been raining those all game long.

In conclusion, it all still points to Spo's overall inability to adjust. While he improved our offense beautifully, he also fails to substitute the right players at the right time in games on that end as well. Spo's a coach who relies a lot on proper preparation and while he's great at that, he still struggles to see the necessary adjustments during a game.

IMHO, Heat's defense is not an issue. No defense is perfect, but Heat's is not a vital need since offense is their best attribute.

The problem is having a true PG to take decisions on the offensive end. If you have a true PG, Lebron, Wade & Bosh's life would be much easier.

And that issue is really obvious in crunch time.

It's either you get rid of one of Lebron or Wade to let the one who stays take every shot, lead every play and take every decision; or you give the game tempo and the ball to a true PG to create the shots for your stars.

I might be wrong, but I always believed that the best way to make players like Lebron and Wade co-exist and flourish is to let a PG give them their shots and plays situations.

.

These threads never cease to make me laugh because they fail to realize the planning and preparation that goes into a post-season series -- something Spoesltra has been through a few years now and his teams have fared well in the post-season, right?