WT: Phil Collins Defensive Philosophy

CablexDeadpool · Post #1 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:02 am

Sixers coach Doug Collins said his team’s defense is designed to concede medium-range shots.

“We don’t feel like contested two-point field goals will beat you. At the end of the day you’ll get beat in the paint, you’ll get beat with fast breaks and you’ll get beat behind the three-point line, but we just don’t feel like teams are going to beat you making contested two-point shots,” Collins explained. “Our whole philosophy is to try and make those teams make those shots against us. Sometimes it looks like, ‘Man, that guy is really open. Why didn’t someone rotate to him?’ Well, we’d much rather give a guy a long two rather than rotate over so they can make a pass to a guy for an open three.”

The Sixers rank first in effective field goal percentage allowed, which adjusts for the added scoring value of three-pointers, at a mere 42.4 percent.

“We think at the end of the day you play your percentages,” Collins said. “Somebody might get hot and they might make a few, but at the end of the day we think we’ll just stay with what we’re doing and not panic and it usually works itself out.”

This makes sense right?

SMH, Come on, Spo. :lol:

Post #2 » by **DefenseWins** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:17 am

You know what's funny? The numbers don't lie

They are in 1st with 3 point percentage allowed at 25.6%. It's obviously working.

For Spo though, 2 > 3. :lol:

Then when the team misses their jumpers, they run down the floor and score easy buckets. Their defensive philosophy would be fantastic for this team.

Miami's #26 :lol:

And damn... OKC is #2...

This IsMy House · Post #3 » by **This IsMy House** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:26 am

DefenseWins wrote:You know what's funny? The numbers don't lie

They are in 1st with 3 point percentage allowed at 25.6%. It's obviously working.

For Spo though, 2 > 3.

Then when the team misses their jumpers, they run down the floor and score easy buckets. Their defensive philosophy would be fantastic for this team.

Miami's #26

And damn... OKC is #2...

What scary to me, isn't that they've lost 3 games in a row, or that Wade isn't healthy. Its the amount of 3 pointers they've given up. And to think about the teams they'd have to go through in the East, and the amount of 3 point potential they have is a scary thing. I go to school in Jacsksonville, so I'm surrounded by Magic fans, and when we debate its usually understood although they kid, Miami is the better team. But right now, with the way we guard the 3, and the way Orlando shoots it, it looks like Orlando will destroy Miami when they play. I hope that doesn't come to be true, and the team figures this out, because they can't keep doing this. 2 is less than 3 Spo, its just simple math.

Post #4 » by **DefenseWins** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:33 am

Oh and it isn't just that. They lost the Finals because of 3's (besides LBJ's poor play).

Game 2. That is all.

And yes the Magic have a knack for coming back for being hot from 3's against this very same team. They are better than I thought this year. The thing is, a lot of teams give a lot of attention to Dwight, thinking 2 > 3. If you saw the Knicks-Magic game today, Chandler would stay with Dwight and not go out to contest shots. It resulted in WIDE OPEN 3's, and they hit 17 3's. If the Magic missed even half of those 3's, the Knicks would have won lol.

Atlanta had it right. Let Dwight get his and protect the 3 point line. They had Orlando's number. That's the way to beat them.

This team wouldn't do something so unorthodox though.

What made me irk was that the Magic played zone. Shooting 3's + zone = Heat killer. :\

Also many times where the Heat had control of the game, the other team would stay together with them because of 3's. Even if they were doing everything else wrong.

I know it's probably too late to change the defense, but the packing of the paint is getting ridiculous. Rather give up a 2 than a 3. :| That's just my opinion.

This IsMy House · Post #5 » by **This IsMy House** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:44 am

One thing I've stated not this forum a lot that I've noticed about coach Spo, is that he comes into a game with 1 game plan and thats it. It doesn't matter what the other team runs, it doesn't matter if its working. Thats the game plan and they're sticking to it. Yet other teams seem to come in, watch Miami for a half a quarter and realize what to do to stop it and move on. After they've done that Miami needs to switch it up, but they don't, they expect the other team to then change and adapt to their game plan. Sorry Spo it doesn't work like that. Dallas knew in game 3 that they had them beat because nothing about the team changed. Same plays, same defense, same mistakes. Something needs to change or it will continue to happen over and over again.

OtW · Post #6 » by **OtW** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:45 am

I don't see a problem honestly in conceding mid-range shots. Our guys can close out quicker on them than they can with the three point shot, plus it will give us more chances for fast breaks. If our guys just stick to their man, we wouldn't be giving up any shots really.

CaliHeat · Post #7 » by **CaliHeat** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:01 am

tweet this to spo so we know he knows about it

Post #8 » by **heat4life** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:05 am

I didn't know Phil Collins coached defense. Are Genesis members his assistants too? :lol:

"I can feel it coming in the air tonight..."

Pimpwerx · Post #9 » by **Pimpwerx** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:12 am

We make it unfriendly to score anywhere inside the arc. We get beat by 3s only when the other team gets hot AND we stop scoring. It's a combined effect, not just one thing. A team can score those open 3s, but if we're scoring as we should, it's not a problem. We win far more games with our defense than we lose. In the playoffs, our defense was better than anyone else's. I'm not sure if that's statistically, but it sure was to the eye. We smothered any and everyone, and we were closing out well on the 3. I don't see a reason to revamp a system that was #5 in def. eff. last season and got us 2 games from the ring.

Does anyone seriously think the reason we lost to Dallas was conceding too many 3s? They scored far more on 2s than 3s, and grabbed a lot of offensive rebounds. They also stuffed us with a zone. I think rebounding and zone-busting are two easier problems to remedy than changing the entire defensive philosophy of a team. The whole thing about the rope is not just a Spo-ism, but it's the concept that the defense moves as if they're all on a rope. If they trust in each other to rotate properly, it gives u nice results, like erasing a Finals MVP from a series. PEACE.

GreenHat · Post #10 » by **GreenHat** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:59 am

This IsMy House wrote:One thing I've stated not this forum a lot that I've noticed about coach Spo, is that he comes into a game with 1 game plan and thats it. It doesn't matter what the other team runs, it doesn't matter if its working. Thats the game plan and they're sticking to it. Yet other teams seem to come in, watch Miami for a half a quarter and realize what to do to stop it and move on. After they've done that Miami needs to switch it up, but they don't, they expect the other team to then change and adapt to their game plan. Sorry Spo it doesn't work like that. Dallas knew in game 3 that they had them beat because nothing about the team changed. Same plays, same defense, same mistakes. Something needs to change or it will continue to happen over and over again.

Not only is Spo inflexible with the gameplan he is also annoyingly inflexible with his rotations. Sometimes you need to change things up but he is always so slow to do so. Spo had Mike Bibby starting for this team all the way into the finals. James Jones comes into a game this year and goes 3/3 from 3 in 5 mins and those end up being the only 5 mins he plays. Lebron gets into foul trouble and has to come out while Wade and Bosh are resting and it takes him a while to realize he needs to bring one or both of them back otherwise we aren't going to score much.

I don't think he is the worst coach in the league, I even think he might be above average. Where I differ from the Spo lovers is that I don't think he is the greatest coach in history. There are a handful of coaches I would rather have instead of Spo.

DOUG Collins is one of them. Before someone accuses me of just using Philly's hot start, I said the same thing before this season even started.

This IsMy House · Post #11 » by **This IsMy House** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:07 am

GreenHat wrote:
This IsMy House wrote:One thing I've stated not this forum a lot that I've noticed about coach Spo, is that he comes into a game with 1 game plan and thats it. It doesn't matter what the other team runs, it doesn't matter if its working. Thats the game plan and they're sticking to it. Yet other teams seem to come in, watch Miami for a half a quarter and realize what to do to stop it and move on. After they've done that Miami needs to switch it up, but they don't, they expect the other team to then change and adapt to their game plan. Sorry Spo it doesn't work like that. Dallas knew in game 3 that they had them beat because nothing about the team changed. Same plays, same defense, same mistakes. Something needs to change or it will continue to happen over and over again.

Not only is Spo inflexible with the gameplan he is also annoyingly inflexible with his rotations. Sometimes you need to change things up but he is always so slow to do so. Spo had Mike Bibby starting for this team all the way into the finals. James Jones comes into a game this year and goes 3/3 from 3 in 5 mins and those end up being the only 5 mins he plays. Lebron gets into foul trouble and has to come out while Wade and Bosh are resting and it takes him a while to realize he needs to bring one or both of them back otherwise we aren't going to score much.

I don't think he is the worst coach in the league, I even think he might be above average. Where I differ from the Spo lovers is that I don't think he is the greatest coach in history. There are a handful of coaches I would rather have instead of Spo.

DOUG Collins is one of them. Before someone accuses me of just using Philly's hot start, I said the same thing before this season even started.

I agree completely. The fact that his rotation is different every night truly makes no sense. When Riley coached, you know exactly who was playing and what to expect. There really is no reason JJ shouldn't have played on the west coast trip, especially against a "defensively" challenged Golden State team. Don't get me started on his "rotation" in the finals (bigger issue than LeBron). Something needs to change and I hope that Riley had a chat with him on these 3 days off.

Heat3 · Post #12 » by **Heat3** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:22 pm

heat4life wrote:I didn't know Phil Collins coached defense. Are Genesis members his assistants too?

"I can feel it coming in the air tonight..."

Pimpwerx · Post #13 » by **Pimpwerx** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:50 pm

@tomhaberstroh
When asked about the Heat's opponent 3-point shooting, Spo said he's more concerned about easy buckets off Heat turnovers.

@tomhaberstroh
Spo's implication: the opp 3-pt shooting will naturally level out, but a sharper Heat offense will improve their defensive rating more.

ItsAJyaKnow · Post #14 » by **ItsAJyaKnow** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:28 pm

I feel like every team we play does not miss mid range shots.. No matter who shoots..

CablexDeadpool · Post #15 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:35 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:
@tomhaberstroh
When asked about the Heat's opponent 3-point shooting, Spo said he's more concerned about easy buckets off Heat turnovers.

@tomhaberstroh
Spo's implication: the opp 3-pt shooting will naturally level out, but a sharper Heat offense will improve their defensive rating more.

Does not compute...play more offense...yet already score 100 a game to make defense better. :lol:

WTF so now he's all about offense now...omg....

He really does probably just look at the stats. :roll:

See what I mean, he rather wait on them missing a shot instead of actually making them miss a shot...

I got a headache...and got dammit it's doug collins...doug doug not phil

sorry about that.

Post #16 » by **DefenseWins** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:35 pm

I just realized this said Phil Collins LMFAOOOOOOOO oh man I swore it said Doug.

"Spo's implication: the opp 3-pt shooting will naturally level out, but a sharper Heat offense will improve their defensive rating more."

You see, that kind of thinking gets this guy in trouble. This is more of "hoping" than taking actions and seeing a result. LEVEL OUT? So giving up like 15 3's for instance is leveling out (it's bound to happen this year against a team like the Magic lol)? I don't get it.

this guy annoys the hell out of me.

lol did he really mention offense. Dude's the worst offensive coach. Run and gun is his philosophy now, WHAT A GREAT OFFENSE. I'm guessing when the Heat miss and don't force turn overs, it's an automatic loss? :|

Or allow 12 3's. Whichever is less brutal...

twix2500 · Post #17 » by **twix2500** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:45 am

Yes Three point shooting levels out. Teams get hot, but cant sustain that game in game out. And yes our offensive droughts did lead to team making a run. Running an efficient offense, impacts a team allow to defend with much more success. Miami has been a team that go on huge runs and huge droughts with turnovers or long rebounds. This is why its so important for Wade, James, Bosh and Curry to score in the low post. One stat we should lead in is Free Attempts. When we go on droughts I would like to see us go to the post games to get us out of scoring droughts.

CablexDeadpool · Post #18 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:02 am

twix2500 wrote:Yes Three point shooting levels out. Teams get hot, but cant sustain that game in game out. And yes our offensive droughts did lead to team making a run. Running an efficient offense, impacts a team allow to defend with much more success. Miami has been a team that go on huge runs and huge droughts with turnovers or long rebounds. This is why its so important for Wade, James, Bosh and Curry to score in the low post. One stat we should lead in is Free Attempts. When we go on droughts I would like to see us go to the post games to get us out of scoring droughts.

That's not the point. The point is it's just stupid thinking.

Leave 3 point shoot open because they will level out, just play more offense. That's what he said, he's hoping on teams missing 3 point shots and his team playing better defense.

And they gonna pack the paint against the Heat, it's just that simple...idk, it's just not making any form of sense. You gonna play Wade Lebron and Bosh, there is no spacing.

How about force tough midrange shots and get fast break points off of long rebounds and don't leave shooters open.

GreenHat · Post #19 » by **GreenHat** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:36 am

twix2500 wrote:Yes Three point shooting levels out. Teams get hot, but cant sustain that game in game out. And yes our offensive droughts did lead to team making a run. Running an efficient offense, impacts a team allow to defend with much more success. Miami has been a team that go on huge runs and huge droughts with turnovers or long rebounds. This is why its so important for Wade, James, Bosh and Curry to score in the low post. One stat we should lead in is Free Attempts. When we go on droughts I would like to see us go to the post games to get us out of scoring droughts.

Three point shooting doesn't "level out". Is miller going to miss the next 10 shots in a row because he hit 6 in a row tonight? Of course not, he'll probably make 3-5 out of his next 10.

And those huge runs and huge droughts are exactly what is frustrating about this team. We have enough offensive talent that we shouldn't be going on these huge droughts. We shouldn't have to rely on the other team turning the ball over so much or Lebron/Wade/Bosh getting hot.

We should be able to consistently come down and score in the halfcourt. There are no excuses for this team on offense.

Post #20 » by **DefenseWins** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:17 pm

twix2500 wrote:Yes Three point shooting levels out. Teams get hot, but cant sustain that game in game out. And yes our offensive droughts did lead to team making a run. Running an efficient offense, impacts a team allow to defend with much more success. Miami has been a team that go on huge runs and huge droughts with turnovers or long rebounds. This is why its so important for Wade, James, Bosh and Curry to score in the low post. One stat we should lead in is Free Attempts. When we go on droughts I would like to see us go to the post games to get us out of scoring droughts.

So if 3 point shooting levels out, this team fails at it against 3 point shooting teams.

Spurs got 10 3's last night, 10-25, 40%. Miller, LBJ and Rio got hot from 3. Do you really think that's going to happen again? Heat had to hit 16 3's to "level it out". This team isn't even a 3 point shooting team....

Thinking a team like the Magic would level out (who are superior from 3) and hoping for them to miss shots is just dumb.