James Jones

[FlashTheKilla]

The man needs to play. The fact that he is a one-dimensional player is EXACTLY what we need. Sometimes you have so much going on that you need a guy who knows his role and excels at it. We already have so many guys who need the ball that a guy who just sits in the corner and nails threes and spaces the offense out for the rest of team is just what the doctor ordered.

James Jones has one of the highest +/- per minute played on the entire team. Yes, Battier is our prized free agent acquisition, so I'm fine with playing him from time to time, but he should not steal all of James Jones minutes. Whatever Battier brings defensively he usually negates offensively.

It pains me to see JJ, the Miami boy born and raised, with the same warrior mentality as Haslem, sitting the bench. Especially at times when our offense is struggling. When he's on the court, everything is just simplified, and lord knows we need to reduce the confusion.

I'm not saying he's the answer to all our woes, but I really do believe he can help.

[mirrornick]

He will be used in the playoffs when 3pt shooters will be most needed.

[Pimpwerx]

JJ plays worse defense than both Shane and Miller. Miller shoots the same percentage from 3 as he does, but also rebounds and plays slightly better defense. If we're not getting Miller enough minutes and shots, I don't think JJ can expect any better. I'd give all of JJ's minutes to Miller, and some of Shane's. PEACE.

[FlashTheKilla]

I'm not saying give him minutes over Miller. Miller has been balling lately and we will need him in the playoffs, but he will come down to earth. Expect to see more games from Miller like last nights. One of the knocks on Miller's career is that he tends to fade into being generally invisible on the basketball court.

And I think JJ's defense is underrated as is his rebounding.

But my overall point is not to argue who's better at what and who excels in which situation. My overall point is that he's a simple player. You never have to worry about him when he's on the court. On a team that has so much noise, anyone who can reduce it is an enormous positive.

[FlashTheKilla]

Man, not as much JJ love as I expected.

Out of curiosity then, do you guys think that Spo is right in sitting him? I want to hear arguments for and against. Or do people just not care right now because there are greater issues at hand such as defense and 4th quarter play?

[Altered_Beast]

Man, not as much JJ love as I expected.

Out of curiosity then, do you guys think that Spo is right in sitting him? I want to hear arguments for and against. Or do people just not care right now because there are greater issues at hand such as defense and 4th quarter play?

the latter IMO. james jones aside from his 3 point shooting and ability to hit freethrows and occasionally take charges is pretty much just a poor mans mike miller. he is a bad man defender, cant rebound, handle the ball or even attempt to create his own shot or pass off the dribble. hes useful when teams are d'ing up heavy with the zone and we need shooters in our 2nd unit. JJ is a true vet, he knows the deal, when his number is called hell be ready.

right now we should be more worried about the heat losing to bad teams, our 3pt defense and getting wade back in rhythm.

[RELL_MARLEE]

I'm confused as to why you guys seem to continually point out James Jones man to man defense...Ray Allen sucked on defense prior to Boston, but got signifcantly better because its TEAM defense. James Jones isn't Mike Bibby on defense, he'll hold his own. Jones is one of my favorite players on the team because he plays hard (when he gets a chance), takes charges(i believe he led the team last year) and his 3 point shot is sweet. I've also noticed he has some sort of game off the dribble-I've seen him catch a few defenders this year with a pump fake. I realize Miller and Shane brings more to the table but give my homie some burn man. I Know yall remember the 25 point game he had against Boston last year in the semifinals!

[Altered_Beast]

I'm confused as to why you guys seem to continually point out James Jones man to man defense...Ray Allen sucked on defense prior to Boston, but got signifcantly better because its TEAM defense. James Jones isn't Mike Bibby on defense, he'll hold his own. Jones is one of my favorite players on the team because he plays hard (when he gets a chance), takes charges(i believe he led the team last year) and his 3 point shot is sweet. I've also noticed he has some sort of game off the dribble-I've seen him catch a few defenders this year with a pump fake. I realize Miller and Shane brings more to the table but give my homie some burn man. I Know yall remember the 25 point game he had against Boston last year in the semifinals!

i agree. but spoelstra is a moron and he uses the default nba 2k12 lineups and refuses to change them until he gets a roster update the next day.

[Pimpwerx]

I'm confused as to why you guys seem to continually point out James Jones man to man defense...Ray Allen sucked on defense prior to Boston, but got signifcantly better because its TEAM defense. James Jones isn't Mike Bibby on defense, he'll hold his own. Jones is one of my favorite players on the team because he plays hard (when he gets a chance), takes charges(i believe he led the team last year) and his 3 point shot is sweet. I've also noticed he has some sort of game off the dribble-I've seen him catch a few defenders this year with a pump fake. I realize Miller and Shane brings more to the table but give my homie some burn man. I Know yall remember the 25 point game he had against Boston last year in the semifinals!

JJ is smart and a nice guy, but his feet aren't quick enough to keep him in the game. I'm not thrown off by his lack of athletic ability. I complained about his minutes one game, and he proceeded to pull down a handful (or more) of rebounds. He can have his moments, but they are few and far between. All he really does is shoot 3s and take charges. And those charges he takes is usually at the expense of leaving someone open on the perimeter.

His feet are not quick enough to allow him to cheat so much into the paint for those charges. He doesn't collect enough of them now to justify the effort he expends there. His slow closeouts and matador defense force the rest of the defense to rotate. He's a popular point of attack for the opposition, much like Bibby was last year.

JJ's defense is about the same as last year, but this season it stands out as particularly bad because we've seen the defense at full strength last year.

It's funny that the reigning 3pt champ can't even sniff the floor, but that's the way our team works. JJ hasn't gotten a quality look on a shot in weeks. Miller can't get enough minutes or shots already, and I'm already annoyed with Spo's allocation of minutes between UD, Miller and Shane. I feel Miller deserves the lion's share of minutes between the 3, since he's shooting the best of them by far. If Miller can't get enough minutes, JJ won't get many either. He'll find minutes when we have injures, foul issues or need to overload the floor with shooters. He needs to work on his defense, and he'll find his way to the floor more. PEACE.

[DefenseWins]

Well think about this.

Last year, when Mike Miller came back despite still being injured, Miller would get a ridiculous amount of minutes. Again, he was still injured while James Jones was perfectly healthy AND EVEN BECAME THE 3 POINT CHAMPION AT THE ALL-STAR GAME (even.. whatever).

James Jones doesn't see the floor, until Mike Miller reinjures himself.

What I'm trying to say is, James Jones is never going to see the floor for more than 2 minutes as long as Miller is perfectly healthy.

What I like about James Jones is that he does know his role... SHOOT 3'S!! He tried to mix it up when he would start but that's different. He doesn't hesitate either. Miller and Battier have been so hesitant it kills me. Even passing it back to LBJ or whoever WHEN THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO SHOOT.

Long story short : Spo does not like James Jones being one dimensional even if he'd hit 5 3's in a row. Spo is a freakin' stubborn idiot sometimes... do you know how many teams would LOVE James Jones on their team?

I like Mike Miller this year, but he has to continue SHOOTING 3'S. He's in there obviously for his rebounding too. His catch and shoot is automatic which I like, but he has to friggin shoot 3's. Mike Miller even got playing time in the playoffs against Dallas and James Jones didn't see the floor once. Yeah apparently he was injured BUT HE WAS READY. Miller was injured too, why not atleast test JJ out there? It's all on Spo. Miller needed surgery and was out there, James Jones had some ankle problem but wanted to play. Just doesn't make sense.

Call me crazy, but I think when the team needs offense, put in James Jones. When they need defense, put in Battier. Battier and UD together HAS BEEN ATROCIOUS on offense lately. Both can't buy a bucket. Battier has had two games already where he has had 0 points in 20+ minutes. UNACCEPTABLE. I know he's the no-box score guy, but it's obvious he doesn't do squat against certain teams.

[Flash4thewin]

I would not play UD and Battier at the same time right now. Sub in JJ for Battier.

[diablerouge]

james jones is not playing because there isn't a team in the nba who plays 5 wings, it's as simple as that. it would be like giving minutes to your 3rd string point guard. they're there in case someone gets injured. especially with the way mike miller is shooting the ball this year (he doesn't think twice), there is no way that spo will look at his bench and bring in jj over mike.

[FlashTheKilla]

Let's be clear, we aren't talking JJ over Miller. We are talking JJ over Battier.

[Pimpwerx]

Let's be clear, we aren't talking JJ over Miller. We are talking JJ over Battier.

Why? Battier's defensive contributions are more valuable than the couple of 3s JJ might be lucky to get off. Battier makes them enough I wouldn't short his minutes for JJ. JJ, Shane and UD have a limited amount of minutes to split. Since we're giving center minutes to Eddy and Dexter now, UD is playing fewer minutes at center. So the 2nd squad doesn't have that open slot anymore. PEACE.

[DefenseWins]

Battier's defense is being taken over the top a bit....

he's good, but he's lost a step and is a bit older, you can just see it. He THRIVES 1vs1, but sucks switching and is a bit slow.

I like him, he takes charges, blocks, steals, etc. But we all complain about Joel Anthony and his offense and rebounding, and don't have anyone viable to back him up so we're stuck with him (we actually do in a way...).

Yet, we have someone to atleast take 5 minutes away from Battier who can contribute atleast one 3, but won't because of Battier's defense?

Guess we should screw getting a real Center and keep Joel at starting Center with that logic.

[FlashTheKilla]

Let's be clear, we aren't talking JJ over Miller. We are talking JJ over Battier.

Why? Battier's defensive contributions are more valuable than the couple of 3s JJ might be lucky to get off. Battier makes them enough I wouldn't short his minutes for JJ. JJ, Shane and UD have a limited amount of minutes to split. Since we're giving center minutes to Eddy and Dexter now, UD is playing fewer minutes at center. So the 2nd squad doesn't have that open slot anymore. PEACE.

See, I disagree. Battier has been so horrid offensively, that whatever he brings defensively is negated. Right now, he's shooting 32% from the field and 31% from three. I would rather have James Jones taking those minutes, where he has the potential to hit back to back threes to blow open a lead.

And as people have been saying, Battier isn't that great defensively in this system. His footwork and instincts are great, and that's what allows him to thrive as a one on one defender. But when it comes to running a long distance to close out on a three point shooter? Eh...not so great.

Also, don't forget JJ is a G at taking charges.

[GreenHat]

JJ plays worse defense than both Shane and Miller. Miller shoots the same percentage from 3 as he does, but also rebounds and plays slightly better defense. If we're not getting Miller enough minutes and shots, I don't think JJ can expect any better. I'd give all of JJ's minutes to Miller, and some of Shane's. PEACE.

JJ does not play worse defense than Miller. People keep making this claim with no proof at all. They just see a scrappy white guy who hustles so he must be a good defender. Miller has been a below average defender for some time now. Last year he was horrible yet many still think of him as average.

He's been good overall this year because his insane shooting has overshadowed his woeful defense. Miller is in for his offense not his defense.

I don't know how some in this thread are calling Battier's defense into question or overrated and then call Miller an average defender. Are we watching the same games?

On defense Battier is above average, JJ is average and Miller is below average.

Including their shooting this year on offense Miller is above average, JJ is average and Battier is below average.

If you have Haslem and Joel out there don't put Battier out there with them. That's the perfect time to use Miller instead.

[Pimpwerx]

I'm in no way hyping up Miller's defense to be good. His defense is almost Korver bad, but he's a better defender than JJ IMO (and I assume in Spo's too). Miller's issues on defense seem to be he gets lost through screens very easily. However, he hustles and tries to closeout. He rebounds way better than JJ, can handle and pass, and has a wider shot selection than JJ. Miller will finish at the rim, or from midrange.

I don't want to sound mean, but this comes across as the argument for Carlos Arroyo. Whereas people like me were adamant that his defense was keeping him on the bench, there was always those who thought it was a travesty that he didn't get playtime. In this defense-first system, JJ is not doing enough to earn his minutes. I haven't even bothered to look at actual stats, but just to the eye, Miller appears more active on defense, and I don't see his man constantly draining open 3's or blowing by to the rim. If Spo isn't giving him minutes, you gotta know it's because of defense. PEACE.

[GreenHat]

I'm in no way hyping up Miller's defense to be good. His defense is almost Korver bad, but he's a better defender than JJ IMO (and I assume in Spo's too). Miller's issues on defense seem to be he gets lost through screens very easily. However, he hustles and tries to closeout. He rebounds way better than JJ, can handle and pass, and has a wider shot selection than JJ. Miller will finish at the rim, or from midrange.

I don't want to sound mean, but this comes across as the argument for Carlos Arroyo. Whereas people like me were adamant that his defense was keeping him on the bench, there was always those who thought it was a travesty that he didn't get playtime. In this defense-first system, JJ is not doing enough to earn his minutes. I haven't even bothered to look at actual stats, but just to the eye, Miller appears more active on defense, and I don't see his man constantly draining open 3's or blowing by to the rim. If Spo isn't giving him minutes, you gotta know it's because of defense. PEACE.

If Spo thinks Miller is a better defensive player than he should be fired. I am giving Spo the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he is playing Miller for the better offense.

I keep saying that people overrate Miller's defense because they see a hustling white guy out there and the response is always "no but Miller is better, I see him out there hustling".

He does rebound better and is more complete on offense, not to mention he is shooting amazing so far this year.

I don't know why you are prefacing the Arroyo comment like that. I did not want Arroyo playing a lot. I wanted Chalmers playing more. And that kind of hurts your appeal to authority when you mention our pg position last year because the authority you are appealing to had Bibby starting all the way up until the finals.

If this is truly a "defense-first" system then Miller shouldn't play at all. He is in there for his offense not his defense.

I know you haven't looked at the stats and are just going by your eyes. That's the problem.

And again Spo doesn't just play the best defensive player. He played other guys instead of Anthony and he started Bibby. Those go directly against the "if Spo isn't giving him minutes, you gotta know its because of defense"

If it was all about defense Miller wouldn't play at all. Its not all about defense and Miller has been spectacular on offense. He has been a positive because he's unprecedented shooting has made his overall offense worth more than he is giving up on the defensive end.

[DefenseWins]

I don't see his man constantly draining open 3's or blowing by to the rim.PEACE.

ehhh... I've seen Miller give up 3's and get blown by. It has happened however to everyone on the Heat team. So it's just not JJ doing it.

Miller is in for rebounding, being the scrappy guy, and shooting/spreading the floor. I'm sure if JJ had more hustle he'd be in there. Miller's 1vs1 defense is terrible, but the team defense hides that.

I mean last year in the Finals, Spo had to take him out because MARION would abuse him in the post and no one would help him.

We should trade James Jones or something because he is underappreciated on this team. Might as well get something for him if we aren't going to use the defending 3 point champ's shooting ability... any team would want him. He'd kill us since this team likes to leave people wide open

I do have to agree, if this team was so defensive oriented, they wouldn't have started Bibby. They started him mostly because he could shoot 3's (but didn't and stunk up the joint in the playoffs).