Talent wins games,teamwork & intelligence wins championships

[RexBoyWonder]

Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

That's a famous quote from Michael Jordan, a man who knows something about winning.

This quote perfectly articulates what's wrong with this Heat team under the guidance of
Erik Spoelstra. we're winning on talent ALONE.

The problem is - with no decent Center on the roster, a good but soft PowerForward and an average(at best) Point guard position - we dont have the luxury of playing on talent alone and expecting to win a championship. we're just not that good, we have real holes and weaknesses. we NEED teamwork and intelligence too, and we just dont have enough of those.

This isnt about the (expected) lost to the Magic, this is about our coaching staff not being able to take the great players we have and create something bigger, a team that is better then the sum of it's parts.

It's about not being able to adjust a gameplan even in the most clearcut cases (all the Magic can do is shoot 3's, so let's let them break their 3 point record on our heads).

It's the inability to offer helpful guidence to a straggling player( Bron in finals) and getting Outcoached in the money-time of the season.

It's about not establishing enough discipline to not blow up 20 points leads against much lower talent teams.

It's not having the feel about when a timeout is needed, and not being able to demand a stop to hero-ball late in games.

It's failing to figure out a way to make our 3 core guys to be comfortable and play well all at the same time.

Im not here to bash coach Spo, i actually like the guy. but sadly it's becoming frightenly obvious that he's simply in over his head with this team. it might the lack of experience. do u really believe in him getting us a championship? could he solve an issue that will pop up in real time?
Im losing hope. a change is needed...this team should look better and become SMARTER.

[WD]

I am personally tired of “everything” Lebron. Tired of all of the gushing over this guy, all of the “he must touch ball on every possession” all of the “greatest player in the league” talk, Just tired.

If you think this coupled with the lack of offensive touches and playing time for other players don’t actually have an affect on this these role players.

I am just tired of this team thinking that we cannot do sh@t without Lebron. But this comes from upstairs.

Now the headline reads “Shots from LeBron critics and Magic too much for Heat” why the fock should shots from critics be an issue in the first place?

What was the headlines yesterday? “Spo says Lebron is the NBA’s best player” - WHO cares, how does that translate into crucial wins? - How will that help him get Lebron to become a better basketball player versus “the most gifted” basketball player?

[TRG]

Spo would make a good assistant coach, and that's it. Not only does he constantly **** up with rotations and adjusting on the fly, he simply isn't a MOTIVATOR. We need a coach that will demand respect from his players and get the most out of them. We need a coach rivers. We need a coach thibs. We need a PHIL JACKSON. We don't need an assistant coach in a head coach's role.

Im tired of watching this team constantly underperforming and underachieving. Im at the point now where im starting to think that this team will never reach its full potential under Spo.

[balldoktor81]

all the stuff you mentioned guys... it's sad...but TRUE!!!!! Spo might be good at analyzing games/opponents during team-meetings BUT for god's sake he never was is not and never will be a HEAD COACH!!!!! after a few games i thought they will grind it out but look where we are now....??? do you really see any kind of improvement.... i don'T!!! we can't take a look behind the curtains but please find a new coach riley so we can improve our chances to win it all... PLEASE!!!!

tell me guys about spo's reputation in the us/florida/around the fanbase... i'm from germany and my only input is this board(realgm) and maybe nba.com i can tell you if spo were a football coach here in europe and would have 3 of the top 50 players and the team would perform like that... man the media would eat this man alive!!!!! he would probably be the greenkeeper by now...

[Pimpwerx]

I think we'd all agree that talent alone didn't carry us to the Finals. I have my issues with Spo, but there are issues with all coaches.

My issues are his stubborn rotations, his slow adjustments and his handling of young players. Last night, the stubborn rotations sat Wade when we could have used him in the 3rd, and he was slow adjusting to the issue of rebounding. Our gameplan was just poor last night, as we gave up points inside and out. I honestly can only remember us having the wrong gameplan for the Nuggets game before this one. No coach will win every matchup, that's why no one goes undefeated.

Phil Jackson was notoriously slow adjusting to the game. He liked to give his guys a chance to ride out runs. Sometimes it backfired spectacularly. Greg Popovich has a penchant for benching his stars when he feels they're playing poorly. He'll run entire quarters with his backups, just to prove a point, even if it comes at the expense of a win. Pat Riley beat his players up in practice to the point that our guys didn't want him back as coach, eventhough he got our franchise its only title.

I think you take the bad with the good, and the good is that Spo has instilled a high level of confidence in our players. The fans might panic, but this squad is focused on winning a title. They talk with the confidence of reigning champs, eventhough they came up short. Spo's been great at handling the media pressure and diffusing some of it. He's held the course when it was needed, and has made changes that were needed. He's corralled 3 big egos and got them to buy into the defensive mindset of the organization. He made Bosh into a great defender.

The new offense is potent, but it relies on our guys running. We started off the season running a lot, getting breaks off makes. That hasn't been the case lately. The system is still there, lying dormant.

Winning the regular season doesn't matter, because we dispatched the #1 seed in 5 games. In a denser season like this, you have to expect guys to take it even easier than before. Would we be better of getting the #1 seed, but wearing-down our Big3 so that they risk injury? We're 18-7, and people are complaining. Before the Big3, I would still have hopes of championship runs, and we would have welcomed 18-7. We have a good record. Sure, it could be a great record, but we're solidly positioned near the top of the conference and league, which means we're slated to have homecourt for at least the first two rounds. Our guys are playing below average minutes. The chemistry is only getting better.

Let Chicago win the regular season again. God knows, they have an easier schedule than us anyway. Let them win the regular season, and then get swept by us. Spo's defense was beast in the playoffs. His offense was good enough to win the championship if Lebron hits his averages, or the bench provides more scoring. The issues that cost us the titles were rebounding, poor bench scoring and a vanishing superstar. Those aren't really his fault. I know people will bring up JJ, but he wasn't gonna score enough points, plus he would only help Dallas make more 3s.

We need to stop the knee-jerk reactions after every loss. Guess what. There are gonna be at least another 10 losses this season, and some might be worse than the 7 so far. Is it gonna be the end of the world? Hell no!

Unlike last season, our guys are actually showing us they have the chops to handle the good teams. The Clips, Nuggs and Hawks are the only good teams we've lost to. The Clips we choked. The Nuggs we got handled, and our gameplan was ****. The Hawks bothered me the most, because the zone was what killed us in the Finals. Losing to bad teams disappoints, but doesn't bother me, because we're not gonna face bad teams in the playoffs. If we play well against good teams, then we'll be fine, because all we'll face in the playoffs are good teams. Stop worrying so damn much. PEACE.

[balldoktor81]

great post pimpwrex...BUT ok we stay cool and still believe....then summer 2012 happens and we still light years away of not 5....not 6...not get to excited we just wanna have fun...and it will be to late. there are NO!!!!!! excuses for this team not to dominate the league (ofcourse we won't win 66 games because of the schedule) from mine point of view this guys are not giving 100% every game, and this coach is a joke! you need a coach who has the guts to pick them of the court if necessary(im speakin of everybody not only the BIG 3...adjust within minutes not quarters,days,weeks or months.... nobody is panicking... face the fact we don't utilize our teams talent like we should and that includes making adjustments, playing with the right attitude, stay focused for 48 mins, play hard... etc. sure we can cruise like we doin now and say: "come playoff-time we will explode..." i hope so... but i've seen enough to have come to the conclusion this team(staff+players) won't win even 1 title! you can criticize me i'm ok with that... I just don't see the the fire in those guys eyes like i saw in jordans pippens....the bulls.... mark my words. PEACE! GO HEAT!!!

[WD]

We need to stop the knee-jerk reactions after every loss. Guess what. There are gonna be at least another 10 losses this season, and some might be worse than the 7 so far. Is it gonna be the end of the world? Hell no!

I respect your post, now go and read my post from 1 year ago titled "VENT LINE PT 2" - this is not knee jerk on my part, tell me which one of the items I've mentioned doe not apply today.....PEACE(ok I stole that from you, just this once)

[winwinz]

practices wins championship too

yeah, we talking about practice

[Nanogeek]

Its true that Flavor Flav could coach this team to 60 wins in a 82 game season because of the talent. However, ultimately we have to trust that Riley knows what he is doing. He knows whats going on in the locker room and practices. Riley knows what it takes to win a championship. I don't think anyone here is ready to say they know more than Riley. Even if they are winning if he doesn't see the team doing what they need to be doing and committing themselves then I am completely confident he will drop Spoelstra.

[Pimpwerx]

great post pimpwrex...BUT ok we stay cool and still believe....then summer 2012 happens and we still light years away of not 5....not 6...not get to excited we just wanna have fun...and it will be to late. there are NO!!!!!! excuses for this team not to dominate the league (ofcourse we won't win 66 games because of the schedule) from mine point of view this guys are not giving 100% every game, and this coach is a joke! you need a coach who has the guts to pick them of the court if necessary(im speakin of everybody not only the BIG 3...adjust within minutes not quarters,days,weeks or months.... nobody is panicking... face the fact we don't utilize our teams talent like we should and that includes making adjustments, playing with the right attitude, stay focused for 48 mins, play hard... etc. sure we can cruise like we doin now and say: "come playoff-time we will explode..." i hope so... but i've seen enough to have come to the conclusion this team(staff+players) won't win even 1 title! you can criticize me i'm ok with that... I just don't see the the fire in those guys eyes like i saw in jordans pippens....the bulls.... mark my words. PEACE! GO HEAT!!!

Oh these guys don't have the same level of dedication, but that's a given. I'm just glad we got 3 all-stars that can coexist. I don't know how we should use the talent differently. I would love for Spo to be more flexible with his substitution patterns, and who he uses in different situations, but that's one of my gripes. I don't think he's gonna change in that regard, but I don't think it was a major issue either.

Who do you guys think would be a better coach for us? I've heard Adelman, and I just have to laugh. Then instead of complaining about giving up 3s, we'd be complaining about playing no defense at all. Phil Jackson isn't walking through that door. Look at the rest of the coaches in the league. I think we're doing great.

If the Big3 want to dominate the league, they would. They don't play with nearly the level of intensity needed during the regular season. Maybe they've figured something out. While Rose beat himself up to win the MVP and the conference, he had nothing extra for the playoffs. Meanwhile, Wade and Lebron (and kinda Bosh) had another gear they used to make the Sixers look unathletic, the Celtics look old, and the Bulls look impotent. I always assumed the reason Wade turned into playoff Wade was because he was always slacking during the regular season. PEACE.

[DefenseWins]

Off topic but anyone else annoyed LeBron plays whole quarters? Like the whole of the 1st and 3rd quarter? Spo's rotations suck. It's especially annoying that when the bench comes in, LBJ just takes all the shots... when he doesn't make them atleast . It's just weird.

But anyway, this team has a good amount of talent and they did get to the Finals because of talent. Spo got outcoached like hell and the result was no title. Jacking up stupid 3's when all you need is just a bucket or even just drive to get FT's, they rather jack up 3's. When talent doesn't bail the coach out, he's exposed. Against Philly, Philly just didn't have enough talent to keep up with the Heat. Boston, Wade just went HAM on them (Rondo also got hurt) and LBJ did his thing in Game 4 and 5. You think Spo called for LeBron to shoot 3's in Pierce's face? lol. ECF, game 1 was ugly. Then LBJ closes it out in game 2, and all those games Bosh was the one who stepped up. One thing is though, the defense (team defense) was good against the Bulls, mostly Rose. I must say, when Asik went out and UD came in, they started to win all 4 straight against the Bulls, I don't know if that's a coincidence . That dude kills us. Finals... LBJ disappears and looks disinterested and STAYS ON THE PERIMETER (where teams would rather have him) and no title. Then again he got like 45 minutes a game which is terrible. Only thing Spo has done is keeping LBJ averaging 37-38 minutes a game.

I don't think they can stop the iso ball. Their whole career, that's all they knew being the "man" on all their teams. In the beginning of the season they looked like they changed running set plays. I heard the set play in Minny was Wade setting it up and suggesting it. Spo didn't and everyone including me (didn't know at the time) gave up credit... psh please. Wade also calling off Spo to go zone against the Hornets also signifies they don't listen to Spo, they do their things. Even when Spo was yelling ZONE ZONE! telling LBJ it's a zone, he just jacks up a shot.

If they listen, stay motivated, they can win a title. But now there's flaws in the defense, WE NEED A CENTER, and the bench has to be consistent for them to win too.

Oh and James Jones hits a 3 as soon as he comes into the game. AS SOON AS HE GETS INTO THE GAME. Just saying. Dude can't even get 5 minutes. Battier and Miller get burned too, not just JJ. Miller and Battier are scrappy, Battier is good 1vs1 but his rotations SUCK and so do Miller's. So many times Miller gave up an open 3 because they look for offensive rebs. It's a good idea and all but pick your poison. So many people confuse being scrappy with good defense. It's just hustle. But if you get burned or can't close out fast enough... BANG!

I mean I don't care about the losses, but it's HOW THEY LOSE and ways to improve. Last year though they just didn't fight off those demons and this year it still persists. IT'S ANNOYING. Giving up 3's when a team tries to get back, STILL blowing leads. Most frustrating team to watch. Also it is a CRIME that with LBJ and Wade and even Bosh on the floor, that they can have a scoring drought.

[Kerosene]

Off topic but anyone else annoyed LeBron plays whole quarters? Like the whole of the 1st and 3rd quarter? Spo's rotations suck....Also it is a CRIME that with LBJ and Wade and even Bosh on the floor, that they can have a scoring drought.

Yes, and yes. The scoring droughts make me question everything I know about the game of basketball and the rotations are puzzling to put it lightly (stupid in layman's term).

[balldoktor81]

new coach...it wouldn't help us...we already have (almost; we all know the warden scuks) everything in place. we should improve...step by step...but sometimes it looks like we make a jump forward followed by a backflip...1/3rd into the season spo held a team meeting...worked for 24 hours...then backflip. we should climb towards the top of the mountain...instead we're sitting in a rollercoaster and it's a bumpy ride. to me it seems like we will be in "cruise mode" during the regular season and then switch into "supermode". and again fail cause we still not capable of learning from mistakes....

[JustAwesome]

What makes you think that the team isn't capable of learning from their mistakes? After an entire season together, these guys seem like they're a lot more mature as a team.

[GreenHat]

I agree with some of your complaints but disagree with your premise.

Talent wins championships. You don't win a championship just because you have "fire in your eyes" or whatever other cliche you guys have thrown out there.

You guys do realize that crappy teams still practice hard and want to win too right?

Jordan's Bulls won because they were the most talented, not because they had the biggest heart, had the best chemistry or wanted it the most.

[RELL_MARLEE]

These threads crack me up. As much as I love watching the regular season, I no longer stress wins or losses. You have to come to the conclusion that Miami is coasting in the regular season. They fell 2 games short of it all to a team that was fiercely determined. They will turn it on in the playoffs. You know it, I know it and so does my pet goldfish.

[ecnirp]

Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

That's a famous quote from Michael Jordan, a man who knows something about winning.

This quote perfectly articulates what's wrong with this Heat team under the guidance of
Erik Spoelstra. we're winning on talent ALONE.

The problem is - with no decent Center on the roster, a good but soft PowerForward and an average(at best) Point guard position - we dont have the luxury of playing on talent alone and expecting to win a championship. we're just not that good, we have real holes and weaknesses. we NEED teamwork and intelligence too, and we just dont have enough of those.

This isnt about the (expected) lost to the Magic, this is about our coaching staff not being able to take the great players we have and create something bigger, a team that is better then the sum of it's parts.

It's about not being able to adjust a gameplan even in the most clearcut cases (all the Magic can do is shoot 3's, so let's let them break their 3 point record on our heads).

It's the inability to offer helpful guidence to a straggling player( Bron in finals) and getting Outcoached in the money-time of the season.

It's about not establishing enough discipline to not blow up 20 points leads against much lower talent teams.

It's not having the feel about when a timeout is needed, and not being able to demand a stop to hero-ball late in games.

It's failing to figure out a way to make our 3 core guys to be comfortable and play well all at the same time.

Im not here to bash coach Spo, i actually like the guy. but sadly it's becoming frightenly obvious that he's simply in over his head with this team. it might the lack of experience. do u really believe in him getting us a championship? could he solve an issue that will pop up in real time?
Im losing hope. a change is needed...this team should look better and become SMARTER.

Sorry for the bump, but I remember someone posting an excellent thread. You were right. You were right indeed.

[NoComparison]

RexBoyWonder knew it all along.

[Nanogeek]

Lebron is good enough if he had the competitive fire and edge of a MJ or Kobe that he'd already have 1-2 rings. But he is a monstrous athlete that is cursed with this deferential, passive demeanor.

Spo doesn't help things at all as he is an assistant coach pretending to be a coach. Riley would never hire Jackson. So the only thing left is for Riley to head to the sideline and coach this team to a championship next year.