RealGM

First of all, I refuse to touch nonsense threads calling Spoelstra a genius - he's far from it. So I'd like to ask the mods not to merge the threads.
It took Boy-Genius 1 year to realize what me and a bunch of others were saying during the past season.

I have to give him credit for at least realizing that he has the best combination of offensive weapons in the league and that he has to use their strengths. As I said before, the Heat are finally close to what I envisioned them to be with Lebron, Wade and Bosh. All the fast breaking, cutting, off the ball screens, Lebron post-ups etc.

But he still wasted one season. The Heat should already have a title and be on their way to the 2nd.

Now I hope that it doesn't take him another year to realize that he's over-using and abusing the trapping defense. The Heat still are too exposed against teams that move the ball and can shoot 3's. With all the athleticism they have, the Heat should switch more. Other teams don't do it because they can't afford to, but the Heat can easily afford this.

If they stayed more on their man, cut the open 3's and wisely choose the moments when to trap aggressively, the defensive would be way more efficient while they'd expend way less energy on that end of the floor compared to the trap-and-scramble they do today.

So yeah, it's good to see Spoelstra can adapt and learn from his mistakes, but he needs to react much faster. This team has a window of a few years, much shorter than a coaching career, and the organisation should not waste the prime of 2 all-time elite players + an all star just so Spoelstra can learn how to be a good coach. I say that if he can't lead this team to a title this season, he should be fired and replaced with an elite coach (if one becomes available).

But for the moment I changed my attitude from "Fire his ass" to a somewhat reluctant "Wait and see".

*** EDIT ***
Forgot one thing - there's an interview of LeBatard with Haberstroh that took place on the 23rd of Dec 2011, where Haberstroh explains what Spoelstra has prepared for this season (he nails it perfectly in terms of the offensive being so much better) and LeBatard, despite him never ever criticizing Spoelstra, asks if that's not an implicit admission that the team was badly coached last season. The response is that at least Spoelstra is doing something about it, so basically the entire interview is a validation of the points I make above. Try and listen to it, it's a good interview.

cool story bro

truthiness wrote:First of all, I refuse to touch nonsense threads calling Spoelstra a genius - he's far from it. So I'd like to ask the mods not to merge the threads.
It took Boy-Genius 1 year to realize what me and a bunch of others were saying during the past season.

I have to give him credit for at least realizing that he has the best combination of offensive weapons in the league and that he has to use their strengths. As I said before, the Heat are finally close to what I envisioned them to be with Lebron, Wade and Bosh. All the fast breaking, cutting, off the ball screens, Lebron post-ups etc.

But he still wasted one season. The Heat should already have a title and be on their way to the 2nd.

Now I hope that it doesn't take him another year to realize that he's over-using and abusing the trapping defense. The Heat still are too exposed against teams that move the ball and can shoot 3's. With all the athleticism they have, the Heat should switch more. Other teams don't do it because they can't afford to, but the Heat can easily afford this.

If they stayed more on their man, cut the open 3's and wisely choose the moments when to trap aggressively, the defensive would be way more efficient while they'd expend way less energy on that end of the floor compared to the trap-and-scramble they do today.

So yeah, it's good to see Spoelstra can adapt and learn from his mistakes, but he needs to react much faster. This team has a window of a few years, much shorter than a coaching career, and the organisation should not waste the prime of 2 all-time elite players + an all star just so Spoelstra can learn how to be a good coach. I say that if he can't lead this team to a title this season, he should be fired and replaced with an elite coach (if one becomes available).

But for the moment I changed my attitude from "Fire his ass" to a somewhat reluctant "Wait and see".

*** EDIT ***
Forgot one thing - there's an interview of LeBatard with Haberstroh that took place on the 23rd of Dec 2011, where Haberstroh explains what Spoelstra has prepared for this season (he nails it perfectly in terms of the offensive being so much better) and LeBatard, despite him never ever criticizing Spoelstra, asks if that's not an implicit admission that the team was badly coached last season. The response is that at least Spoelstra is doing something about it, so basically the entire interview is a validation of the points I make above. Try and listen to it, it's a good interview.

You are saying he is the main reason why the Heat lost the finals?

I credit Spo for a improving the offense, but I mostly credit LeBron and Mario for improving their games. I credit Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller for finally getting healthy. I credit Riley for getting rid of most of the old dinosaurs and getting Shane Battier. Credit the scouts for finding Norris Cole and Riley for trading up for him. Coaching is important; however, it is the players that ultimately perform on the floor.

Knicks got weapons and no cohesiveness. Lakers' "best frontcourt in the league" gets marginalized against our frontcourt of Bosh and Joel. There are teams that have the talent to be more, but don't achieve. Why? Coaching.

When was Bosh considered a great defender before coming here?

When was LeBron considered a great defender who's willing to bang in the post and play reps at PF and C?

A coach gets his players motivated and gets them to buy into the system. You could have have the greatest scheme in the world and it wouldn't matter if your stars don't buy in. Spo has gotten 3 egos to work together as a unit. He's gotten this team to move as one, without complaint.

Think about that for a second. When's the last time you heard dissent in the ranks? Shoulder Bump Gate? That's probably the closest. Spo's done a fantastic job. I don't know what there is to "wait and see". If you think there's a better coach out there, name them. I think that's when people tend to backoff this inane criticism, when they realize that the pool of better coaches is exactly zilch.

Appreciate the nice things we have, Heat fans. It wasn't so long ago we were in the damn lottery with Beasley as our #2. PEACE.

HeatGuyInChicago wrote:You are saying he is the main reason why the Heat lost the finals?

yes.
and it's not the 1st time i said it.

he pushed them too much with that over-aggressive D and he had absolutely no answer for carlisle's zone D or for any of the other adjustments that carlisle did during the finals.

he acted like a toy robot that ran into an obstacle. he kept trying to do the only thing he knew how to do, but had no idea how to get around or over said obstacle.

and yes, part of the early season success is the fact that he let the heat run. instead of calling plays on every single play, he seems to let them "feel" the game, read the defense and react more, adapt more. after all, if you have good fundamentals, if you set screens, move the ball and cut to open spaces, you will end up with a good shot.

if he'd only tweak the D a little, just enough to not over-exert the players and not have them madly scrambling back to 3p shooters, the heat would dominate the league like no team has done since the 96 and 97 bulls (72 and 69 wins).

Pimpwerx wrote:Spo's done a fantastic job. I don't know what there is to "wait and see". If you think there's a better coach out there, name them. I think that's when people tend to backoff this inane criticism, when they realize that the pool of better coaches is exactly zilch.

Let's not get carried away. He's done an average job at best.

As for available coaches, Adelman was available for a while, and he's WAY better than Spoelstra.
And then there's that Jackson guy who claims he retired. But he did that before. Maybe he's just tired of Kobe. He coached Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. Maybe he'd like to coach Wade and Lebron and get one more 3peat. Worth asking.

Pimpwerx wrote:Knicks got weapons and no cohesiveness. Lakers' "best frontcourt in the league" gets marginalized against our frontcourt of Bosh and Joel. There are teams that have the talent to be more, but don't achieve. Why? Coaching.

We have way more talent than the Knicks and Lakers.

D'Antoni has put up two seasons that were about as good as we were last year with less overall talent than we had.

Mike Brown has had a team play better than us over a whole season with way less talent.

Did they just forget how to coach since then?

There are also plenty of teams that are overachieving this season based on their talent. I wouldn't say we are one of those team.

When was Bosh considered a great defender before coming here?

When was LeBron considered a great defender who's willing to bang in the post and play reps at PF and C?

Bosh was considered a great defender back when he played on the Olympic team. One of the reasons why most people wanted Bosh over Amare/Boozer was because Bosh was much better at defense.

Lebron has been a great defender since early in his Cleveland days.

Lebron has gotten a little better posting up but why are you attributing that to Spo?

A coach gets his players motivated and gets them to buy into the system. You could have have the greatest scheme in the world and it wouldn't matter if your stars don't buy in. Spo has gotten 3 egos to work together as a unit. He's gotten this team to move as one, without complaint.

Has there been any evidence that this has been hard? Those three seem easy to coach by all accounts.

Think about that for a second. When's the last time you heard dissent in the ranks? Shoulder Bump Gate? That's probably the closest. Spo's done a fantastic job. I don't know what there is to "wait and see". If you think there's a better coach out there, name them. I think that's when people tend to backoff this inane criticism, when they realize that the pool of better coaches is exactly zilch.

Before I name some better coaches, do you really believe that Spo is the best coach in the league? Not even HIF thinks that.

Appreciate the nice things we have, Heat fans. It wasn't so long ago we were in the damn lottery with Beasley as our #2. PEACE.

So you have never complained about anything about the team since then? I'm 100% positive that's not true and I can pull up your posts if you want.

If we are going to credit prior seasons, I'm not sure how you can argue that Miami did not over achieve Spo's first two seasons

mopper8 wrote:If we are going to credit prior seasons, I'm not sure how you can argue that Miami did not over achieve Spo's first two seasons

I mean he still had a healthy prime Wade both years.

First year they were an average team with:

Wade/Marion and then Jermaine/Beasley/Haslem/Anthony/Chalmers/Dorell/Cook/JJ

With Wade playing at an alltime great level, isn't that an average team?

Second year they were better but got a bad draw. Either way they were going to lose in the first round to any of the top 4 and they wouldn't have even made the playoffs in the West.

They had:

Wade/Jermaine/Beasley/Haslem/Qrich/Chalmers/Wright/Anthony/JJ/Cook/Arroyo/Alston

Is it really overachieving to be a slightly above average team with that roster? Maybe a little but they have enough good defenders to be a good defensive team and they have a healthy Wade.

I think you're underestimating having a prime superstar.

I don't think the underachieved but I wouldn't say its a definite over-achievement.

We are no further with Spo than we were last year.

Until then...

Not impressed.

I like the changes with the offense not relying on ISOs all the time. But the packing the paint crap pisses me off, although our defense is playing amazing, giving up open 3s is deadly and teams feed off that. Gets their momentum going.

Either way its ring or bust.

We have way more talent than the Knicks and Lakers.

Another GreenHat fallacy

The Knicks have tremendous talent.

TC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than elite Joel

Amare > Bosh

Melo is an ELITE scorer

Bdiddy/JLin have more talent than Rio and Cole - though in Spo's system Rio and cole stuffed them.

Landry is as good as any of our bench players

JR Smith is the pickup of the season - what I'd give to have him on the Heat.

Our talent is Bron and Wade - they're the best but I think you underrate every other team's professional players badly.

Even the Lakers should be killing us with Gasol and Bynum backed up by Kobe. that frontcourt should be able to cancel out anything we can do. But then you have the Spostem which uses our talents better than other teams use theirs.

And saying that spo didn't work wonders with Wade and scrubs is just insane. You REALLY undervalue every other team's players. Get you Heat tinted glasses off unless you want to join the jokers like me.

truthiness wrote:

HeatGuyInChicago wrote:You are saying he is the main reason why the Heat lost the finals?

yes.
and it's not the 1st time i said it.

he pushed them too much with that over-aggressive D and he had absolutely no answer for carlisle's zone D or for any of the other adjustments that carlisle did during the finals.

he acted like a toy robot that ran into an obstacle. he kept trying to do the only thing he knew how to do, but had no idea how to get around or over said obstacle.

and yes, part of the early season success is the fact that he let the heat run. instead of calling plays on every single play, he seems to let them "feel" the game, read the defense and react more, adapt more. after all, if you have good fundamentals, if you set screens, move the ball and cut to open spaces, you will end up with a good shot.

if he'd only tweak the D a little, just enough to not over-exert the players and not have them madly scrambling back to 3p shooters, the heat would dominate the league like no team has done since the 96 and 97 bulls (72 and 69 wins).

Spoelstra is responsible for LeBron James not being aggressive and breaking off plays. Even if you had the answer truthiness, LeBron would still break off your plays. Spoelstra is responsible for the offensive turnovers. Spoelstra is responsible for Bibby's historically bad offensive performance. Spoelstra is responsible for Miller and Haslem being hurt. Did you have a problem with Riley's defenses because it is practically the same? Do you want to give the Mav players a little credit too as well? By the way, the Heat did practice zone offense. (Jorge Sedano) Were they able to become proficient quickly enough last year? Obviously not.

The only issue I had with Spoelstra was not adapting personnel to JJ Barea. Bibby was an offensive and defensive liability. Even with that, the games could have been decided with better play from LeBron. I maintain that last year's roster was flawed at the point guard and center position with little to offer from the bench due to injuries. It would have been a testament to the greatness of James, Wade, and Bosh to win and overcome a roster with all those flaws. Unfortunately, they came up short. LeBron's improved disciplined game this year is his acceptance of his failure from last year.

HIF wrote:

We have way more talent than the Knicks and Lakers.

Another GreenHat fallacy

The Knicks have tremendous talent.

TC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than elite Joel

Amare > Bosh

Melo is an ELITE scorer

Bdiddy/JLin have more talent than Rio and Cole - though in Spo's system Rio and cole stuffed them.

Landry is as good as any of our bench players

JR Smith is the pickup of the season - what I'd give to have him on the Heat.

Our talent is Bron and Wade - they're the best but I think you underrate every other team's professional players badly.

Even the Lakers should be killing us with Gasol and Bynum backed up by Kobe. that frontcourt should be able to cancel out anything we can do. But then you have the Spostem which uses our talents better than other teams use theirs.

And saying that spo didn't work wonders with Wade and scrubs is just insane. You REALLY undervalue every other team's players. Get you Heat tinted glasses off unless you want to join the jokers like me.

Heat talent > Knicks talent.

Heat talent > Lakers talent.

You're absolutely ridiculous. Keep your agenda/obsession with GreenHat, and love affair with Spoelstra in your own thread.

I love how a topic titled "Gotta give some credit to ..." is a (thinly) veiled attempt at attacking the same person. Nice job

But seriously though, if we can have a "Spo is a genius" thread or a personal "Vent Line", you should be free to post any ish you want here.

HIF wrote:

We have way more talent than the Knicks and Lakers.

Another GreenHat fallacy

The Knicks have tremendous talent.

TC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than elite Joel

Amare > Bosh
Melo is an ELITE scorer

Bdiddy/JLin have more talent than Rio and Cole - though in Spo's system Rio and cole stuffed them.

Landry is as good as any of our bench players

JR Smith is the pickup of the season - what I'd give to have him on the Heat.

Our talent is Bron and Wade - they're the best but I think you underrate every other team's professional players badly.

Even the Lakers should be killing us with Gasol and Bynum backed up by Kobe. that frontcourt should be able to cancel out anything we can do. But then you have the Spostem which uses our talents better than other teams use theirs.

And saying that spo didn't work wonders with Wade and scrubs is just insane. You REALLY undervalue every other team's players. Get you Heat tinted glasses off unless you want to join the jokers like me.

HIF wrote:

We have way more talent than the Knicks and Lakers.

Another GreenHat fallacy

The Knicks have tremendous talent.

TC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than elite Joel

Amare > Bosh

Melo is an ELITE scorer

Bdiddy/JLin have more talent than Rio and Cole - though in Spo's system Rio and cole stuffed them.

Landry is as good as any of our bench players

JR Smith is the pickup of the season - what I'd give to have him on the Heat.

Our talent is Bron and Wade - they're the best but I think you underrate every other team's professional players badly.

Even the Lakers should be killing us with Gasol and Bynum backed up by Kobe. that frontcourt should be able to cancel out anything we can do. But then you have the Spostem which uses our talents better than other teams use theirs.

And saying that spo didn't work wonders with Wade and scrubs is just insane. You REALLY undervalue every other team's players. Get you Heat tinted glasses off unless you want to join the jokers like me.

Others have already called out this post for its inaccuracies and obvious agenda.

Even still you come to the conclusion that Bron and Wade is "our talent". Yeah having the two best players in every game is a huge advantage.

I realize that upon your return you've turned into even more of a troll and you're probably doing this sarcastically but again because its you its hard to tell how much of it is delusion or inaccuracy.

It wasn't just Wade and scrubs and we were an average team those years. Plus it was a healthy prime Wade. How many coaches don't even get a franchise guy like that?

And I don't think I'm undervaluing the Lakers or the Knicks to say we have more talent than them. We do.

coolstorybro wrote:
Heat talent > Knicks talent.

Heat talent > Lakers talent.

You're absolutely ridiculous. Keep your agenda/obsession with GreenHat, and love affair with Spoelstra in your own thread.

Its already spread into multiple threads. This isn't going to die until he gets suspended again.

But yeah we have more talent than the Knicks and Lakers. I can't believe I even have to argue that.

HeatGuyInChicago wrote:

truthiness wrote:

HeatGuyInChicago wrote:You are saying he is the main reason why the Heat lost the finals?

yes.
and it's not the 1st time i said it.

he pushed them too much with that over-aggressive D and he had absolutely no answer for carlisle's zone D or for any of the other adjustments that carlisle did during the finals.

he acted like a toy robot that ran into an obstacle. he kept trying to do the only thing he knew how to do, but had no idea how to get around or over said obstacle.

and yes, part of the early season success is the fact that he let the heat run. instead of calling plays on every single play, he seems to let them "feel" the game, read the defense and react more, adapt more. after all, if you have good fundamentals, if you set screens, move the ball and cut to open spaces, you will end up with a good shot.

if he'd only tweak the D a little, just enough to not over-exert the players and not have them madly scrambling back to 3p shooters, the heat would dominate the league like no team has done since the 96 and 97 bulls (72 and 69 wins).

Spoelstra is responsible for LeBron James not being aggressive and breaking off plays. Even if you had the answer truthiness, LeBron would still break off your plays. Spoelstra is responsible for the offensive turnovers. Spoelstra is responsible for Bibby's historically bad offensive performance. Spoelstra is responsible for Miller and Haslem being hurt. Did you have a problem with Riley's defenses because it is practically the same? Do you want to give the Mav players a little credit too as well? By the way, the Heat did practice zone offense. (Jorge Sedano) Were they able to become proficient quickly enough last year? Obviously not.

The only issue I had with Spoelstra was not adapting personnel to JJ Barea. Bibby was an offensive and defensive liability. Even with that, the games could have been decided with better play from LeBron. I maintain that last year's roster was flawed at the point guard and center position with little to offer from the bench due to injuries. It would have been a testament to the greatness of James, Wade, and Bosh to win and overcome a roster with all those flaws. Unfortunately, they came up short. LeBron's improved disciplined game this year is his acceptance of his failure from last year.

A player is responsible for not being aggressive or breaking off plays if it happens once or twice. If it happens for a series then yes the coach should be doing something about it.

Also Lebron breaking off some plays helped get us to the finals too. And again if a player is consistently breaking off your plays, you have to do something about it.

Spo isn't responsible for specific turnovers but is responsible for the aggregate unforced errors that we make just being sloppy.

Spo isn't responsible for Bibby's historically bad shooting, but he is for starting him over Chalmers until the very end.

Miller and Haslem were playing by the Finals.

If Riley had a juggernaut roster like this then I would have a problem if he allowed a lot of 3s which raised the variance of each game, allowing for more upsets.

I do give the Mavs credit, more than most.

You said it yourself about the zone offense "Were they able to become proficient quickly enough last year? Obviously not.". Quickly enough? This happened in the finals they had all year to be ready.

Again how was PG and Center a flaw last year but this year its fine. We have the SAME guys (Chalmers and Anthony). Spo created the PG problem last year by not giving it to Chalmers and he had Anthony/Bosh/Haslem last year for Center.

And even with all those flaws we were still considered the overwhelming favorites.

truthiness wrote:Let's not get carried away. He's done an average job at best.

As for available coaches, Adelman was available for a while, and he's WAY better than Spoelstra.
And then there's that Jackson guy who claims he retired. But he did that before. Maybe he's just tired of Kobe. He coached Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. Maybe he'd like to coach Wade and Lebron and get one more 3peat. Worth asking.

Phil's back is FUBAR. Plus, he was not giving a **** at all last season. The guy looks content. If he is still motivated, hell yeah I'd take him. But it's not gonna happen, so that's a pipe dream.

Adelman is NOT a better coach than Spo. Look at Minny's defense. Thank you. I'll pass. Spo coaches a great team on both sides of the ball. He's not a one-trick pony. Adelman may run a nice offense, but if every game is gonna be a track meet how well is that gonna work in the playoffs? PEACE.