RealGM

As much as i want to see this team do well and win it all - the rational part of me as a long time basketbalfan know they probably won't. this team has some very talented pieces, but it was built wrong in many different ways. this roster is very flawed.

our core as a team is the Wade\Bron duo. the closest thing in the history of the NBA to them were MJ and Pippen in those geart Bulls teams, so lets see what made those bulls team so strong (and what the heat are missing) :

1) the Bulls understood that Mj and Pip are the core of their team, and everyone else needs to fit around them.

So they got Dennis Rodman, which was one of the best defenders in the league at the time, and the best rebounder in the league.

We got Bosh, who is a good scorer (but we dont really need another first/seconed option with an outside game type scorer) yet he's a very average defender, below average shot blocker, bad rebounder, and very soft overall. he's just that kind of a finess player, we need to accpet it.

2) they had Steve Kerr - a steady, consistent, pure shooter and ball handler. or Ron Haeprer - a big vetren that played good D.

We got Mario - a semi-crazy streaky shooter with tendencies to bone-headed plays. or Cole - an out of control Rookie that has trouble adjusting to the NBA ( might be Coach related).

3) They had a long list of true 7 footers who would clog the paint, block shots, rebound and provide physicality and toughness.

We have the undersized Joel (another bad rebounder, and a very bad offensive player), a few bigs on the the bench that never get on the court, and Ronny Turiaf whice was a nice pickup but is far from enough to solve the C issue.

4. Bulls also had another create/scorer from the bench in Toni Kukoc.

We got the glass-man who is Mike Miller. never healthy, and doesn't have the confidences even when he's on the court. we also got Battier - an over the hill smart team player.

5. They had Phil Jackson , who was able to maximize their talent and create something bigger, a team better then the sum of it's parts. they always played hard D and knew what they were going for on O.

We have Spo, a nice guy with no experience who is stuglling to create a team even equal to the sum of it's parts. sadly, after almost 2 all seasons our half court offense is still just totally random. they still have no idea how to work for each other, or how many shots each one should expect in a given night, or what kind of shots should they even take (taking/not taking 3's..Bosh thinks he's a jump shooter, ect).
Our defense scheme is just weird and is hurting us as much as it's helping us (killed us Vs the Mavs in Finalls and in many other games since).

We simply win on talent alone, and i always think of that old Michael Jordan saying : ""Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."

Can you honestly say this team plays smart? or hard? or as a tight united team? i cant.

Look at all NBA champions teams in history. never, NEVER, will u find a team that won with a soft/small front court rotation like Bosh/UD/Joel/Turiaf. it just never happened in 50+ years.

I always thought Riely is a stud, but he really faild in bringing in the right pieces around the Bron/Wade core. we dont have the right coach, that in itself is big. and we dont have the right type of PF to compliment Wade's and Bron's style, which is huge cause CB is taking the rest of our salary cap yet his skillset is underutilized and not really needed, and he's lacking in the things we do need.
After Riely got the big 3 - he throw all our resources on Mike Miller and Haslem. i love UD, but those are two BENCH guys (one of whice is never healthy), and he did that while our PG and C spots are being filled with bench players talent. (that's what Rio and joel really are).

I just dont believe in this roster getting a championship, it's just too flawed, too many weaknesses. i do believe we can make some moves in the summer, and hopefully become more balanced and much better as a team.

With all that said, if Wade AND Bron go completely berserk during the last 3 playoffs Series, they could pull it off. but it won't be because we're a better team, it's because those 2 are that special.
and it would take a special miracle for us to win this year.

Anyone feeling optimistic and care to explain why?

The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

Going into this season I was very optimistic about our chances.

Im now becoming somewhat doubtful. Our team has shown signs of improvement this season but overall this team has somehow regressed.

We're lazier, our defense is still getting exposed by good teams, we're still having rebounding issues, Spo still sucks ass with his rotations, and since the end of the All Star break our half court offense has gone to ****.

Nothing is going right for us right now.

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

right, but i wasn't trying to say both team are on the same level. i was making the point that talent alone isnt enough, even the most dominante team of the past 40 years who had the most talented player in history only did so well because they were smart enough in creating a complete team, a balanced roster and playing smart and hard.

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

Typical RealGM response.... Guy comes out with a well thought-out and well-spoken argument for why he belives something... And tools like this repond with one line. If you don't have anythnig nice to say just stay quiet.

While I think you make a fair comparison and some good points there are a lot of things you are glossing over here.

1. You are talking about the bulls second three peat. You have to remember that MJ and Scottie had been together 8 years at this point and the franchise had done a lot of trial and error before building the right supporting cast for their dynasty.
2. You are right that the bulls were much more intelligent with how they spent there moeny but they had a lot more flexibility in building their team. Was Bosh the best fit, certainly not, but it was a package deal and if the package deal is gonna make you an immediate title contender you have to do it. Bosh got market value, and they got discounts on the other two, so it was actually a very shrewd job by the front office.
3. As far as the other contracts joel anthony is a very good fit in our defensive system. You can rip him all you want but the guy is a great defensive player. His rebounding could be better but I like him on this team.
Miller looked like a perfect addition. He is an outstanding rebounder and a great shooter and when he is healthy he has been good for us. No one knew he was made of glass, that is just bad luck.
Chalmers/Cole are what they are but they were the best we could do. Both are on very good contracts. And we will have to see what they do in the playoffs.
Battier is a great addition in my opinion and I think everyone will like him a lot more when the playoffs start.
Haslem to me is a terrible contract. Like every other heat fa I love this guy, but he is undersized and can not finish. We needed size and athleticism in his place. This money should have gone to a luc longley type player.

So anyway my point is I think Riley has done a very good job with what has been available to him. I would have spent Halsem money elsewhere. And obviously we need size but there is none available.

Last point, this team is much better than we were last year. I still don't see any team that beat us in a 7 game series and I just feel like us heat fans need to stop complaining. These have been two amazing years to be a heat fan, I want to win it all but if we don't at least we have the best team to watch other than maybe the thunder.

I wrote this on Yahoo Sports today. Very similar to OP.

This Miami Heat team collapses way too far into the paint when opponents shoot long jumpers and when the long rebound comes, it flies past them. They're supposed to be quick and athletic but the reaction time and urgency isn't there and as a result, the defensive system is not working. Also, the lack of size inside is tremendously hurting this team. Pittman does provide some size, toughness and a bit of a post presence when utilized properly but that isn't possible with the current roster makeup and the coach's inability to rotate fresh players into the game when the status quo is not working.

BTW, what was the point in signing Eddy Curry if he wasn't going to play in the first place even if someone is injured or at their grandmother's funeral? Also if this team re-signs Juwan Howard one more time to take up roster room I'm going to yank my hair out my head.

hey yall new here been lurking for a while but because of college and stuff i havent had the time to actually register but watching the boston game like most of you i was super pissed and decided to register...regarding your views i think you are spot on when you say this front court might not be good enough. Every championship team i can ever remember had an enforcer in the paint the kinda guy you knew would put your ass on the ground or was blocking your shot like a Tyson Chandler or a Ben Wallace thats what this team needs the most to be honest wit yu joel is a serviceable center especially on pick and rolls in this system but he is just too undersized which is one of the reasons i think Pittman should be eased into the rotation just a bit more because if you guys can remember that game this year when he came to lebrons defence when a scuffle happened and Pitt had lebrons back thats something i never seen joel do not to say he should be starting fights but just that enforcers edge. Coming into this year after the finals last year i was very optimistic that we would win the championship but so far we just haven't exhibited championship habits which is worrisome to say the least

The team is also badly in need of a video coordinator who can show which offensive players shoot the ball flat to position themselves for long rebounds and which players shoot with an arc in order to get the short-high rebounds.

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

Is that all you got from this guys post?

WD wrote:

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

Is that all you got from this guys post?

Of course not but some of you guys need to pull the thong out of your asses and relax. While his post was well constructed expressing his thoughts, some of which were facts I'm not going to sit here and say "you know what, you're right this current team can't win a championship" but for those of you who feel that way by all means stop watching the games, torturing yourselves for a team you don't believe can win. The OP did a lot stating the obvious, there is so much wrong with this team I don't know where to begin but until they make it to the finals and fail to deliver, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Would I like to see this team get it together and start playing better NOW? Absolutely but the fact remains this is the same roster when we were tearing it up going into all star break so if you want to get pessimistic now after a garbage stretch then fine you have every right to do so but this is the same team when we were winning.

cb1 wrote:hey yall new here been lurking for a while but because of college and stuff i havent had the time to actually register but watching the boston game like most of you i was super pissed and decided to register...regarding your views i think you are spot on when you say this front court might not be good enough. Every championship team i can ever remember had an enforcer in the paint the kinda guy you knew would put your ass on the ground or was blocking your shot like a Tyson Chandler or a Ben Wallace thats what this team needs the most to be honest wit yu joel is a serviceable center especially on pick and rolls in this system but he is just too undersized which is one of the reasons i think Pittman should be eased into the rotation just a bit more because if you guys can remember that game this year when he came to lebrons defence when a scuffle happened and Pitt had lebrons back thats something i never seen joel do not to say he should be starting fights but just that enforcers edge. Coming into this year after the finals last year i was very optimistic that we would win the championship but so far we just haven't exhibited championship habits which is worrisome to say the least

Isnt UD suppose to be our enforcer?

UD was our enforcer until this year. Now he gets pushed around. I remember the Hawks game when Ivan Johnson in his first game vs the Heat shoved him around & even threw an elbow at Haslem & he did nothing. At least Pittman, who does foul a lot, will foul you hard and he has been in several skirmishes in his little + time on the floor.

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

What hes seeing is,actually on point, he's actually contrasting a team of two great wing players.

Bosh at times seems the odd man out because he doesn't give us ideally what we need inside, rebounds, blocks, toughness. What he brings is a mid range jumper.

At times its like having 3 shooting guards, or 2 small forwards, 1,shooting guard. If bosh doesn't play BIG, and chalmers doesn't produce and miller doesnt hit shots. We are awfully imbalanced

iboxlefty wrote:

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

What hes seeing is,actually on point, he's actually contrasting a team of two great wing players.

Bosh at times seems the odd man out because he doesn't give us ideally what we need inside, rebounds, blocks, toughness. What he brings is a mid range jumper.

At times its like having 3 shooting guards, or 2 small forwards, 1,shooting guard. If bosh doesn't play BIG, and chalmers doesn't produce and miller doesnt hit shots. We are awfully imbalanced

Exactly the point i was making. it's not all about the amount of talent, it's more about balance, and how the talent meshes together. currently, our best 3 players are way too similar to each other.
(it's partly a coaching issue but mostly just overlaping skill-sets).

another important point is the importance of positions on the floor. there was a poll in a GB theard asking "what position are the most important for a championship team" - the results were :

1.Center.
2.PG

3.PF
4.SG
5.SF.

I completely and utterly agree to this. in today's game a big C is the most important position. i base that on both watching a ton of basketball over the years and the list of teams that were able to be successful in the history of the game.

As we all know, Center and PG are our weakest positions, both way below the league's average. this roster puts a ton of pressure on Wade and Bron both to be fantastic if we want to have a real chance.

Holy ****. I KNOW we need a Center first and foremost a Legit center, and we have issuses at the point as well. I KNOW that. Ideally I'd want Bosh gone in order to obtain those much needed pieces but the fact remains that isn't going to happen going into this post season so all of this **** you're saying is repetitive, dead, and done. I'm going to remain optimistic and anticipate that THIS team imbalances, uncomplimentary pieces, and all will get it done, and who knows perhaps then we can have one of those farewell videos similar to Fishers and send him on with his shiny new ring for what we need.

i get your point and like i said i still hold on to a small hope that Wade and Bron just go off in every series and bring us the ship. it's just really frustrating and annoying that this roster doesnt give them the help they need in the areas they need it. both are amazing players in their prime..ill hate to see another year of "almost".

ill try not let go of the rope just yet...

RexBoyWonder wrote:

iboxlefty wrote:

arsenic wrote:The fact that you even have the audacity to compare this team to the 90s Bulls is...

What hes seeing is,actually on point, he's actually contrasting a team of two great wing players.

Bosh at times seems the odd man out because he doesn't give us ideally what we need inside, rebounds, blocks, toughness. What he brings is a mid range jumper.

At times its like having 3 shooting guards, or 2 small forwards, 1,shooting guard. If bosh doesn't play BIG, and chalmers doesn't produce and miller doesnt hit shots. We are awfully imbalanced

Exactly the point i was making. it's not all about the amount of talent, it's more about balance, and how the talent meshes together. currently, our best 3 players are way too similar to each other.
(it's partly a coaching issue but mostly just overlaping skill-sets).

another important point is the importance of positions on the floor. there was a poll in a GB theard asking "what position are the most important for a championship team" - the results were :

1.Center.
2.PG

3.PF
4.SG
5.SF.

I completely and utterly agree to this. in today's game a big C is the most important position. i base that on both watching a ton of basketball over the years and the list of teams that were able to be successful in the history of the game.

As we all know, Center and PG are our weakest positions, both way below the league's average. this roster puts a ton of pressure on Wade and Bron both to be fantastic if we want to have a real chance.

Thats something thats been said since the big three got together but the reason i hasnt been exposed too much in the playoffs is because we negate those disadvantages with talent and team defense lets face it mike bibby had no business guarding derick rose but the team defense corraled him. Chicago was also supposed to expose us on the boards but we negated that with team rebounding because bron and dwade are great rebounders for their position which i guess leads to ur point of dem having to be fantastic. The biggest worry in my opinion is that the good teams are beginning to figure out the defense because its been a long time since we played last years defense in a big road game.Bottomline is bron and dwade wont have to be fantastic offensively but more so defensively and on the boardswhich will cover up some of our issues

Funny how Bosh went from a franchise player to a bosh after joining the heat.

twinthunder3 wrote:Funny how Bosh went from a franchise player to a bosh after joining the heat.

yep