"Pace and Space Offense" The SPO Offense Evolutionary??

[twix2500]

Over the years we seen offenses design specifically to fit around a unique player such as the Collins/Jackson triangle offense around Jordan, Nelson fastbreak offense of TMC and Steve Nash/ Dirk, Sloan High picknroll Stockton Malone. Spolestra has been molding his offensive scheme since he took over. Where the offense is built around quickness, versatility, and less muscle and height. He has mix the Stan Van Gundy Miami Heat offense with with Odom, Wade N Jones, Riley Point Forward Offense and Jerry Sloan Pick N Roll offense. You seen Spo experiment with Beasley, Marion and Wade. Then addition of Lebron James and his own evoluton in his game has been a spark to Spo Offense Idealogy. He has totally abandoned the Center position and built an offense that will run two small forwards which he reveal in the NBA finals. Every oppossing team is trying to prove Spo wrong by adding size to be the cyptonite of Miami quick small team. If Miami Heat when 2013 championship will you start to see copy cats around the league to imitate Spo Offense like you did with the triangle offense?

[GreenHat]

Can't really copy Lebron, Wade and Bosh with a bunch of shooters. Not a lot of teams have enough offensive skill and/or the ability to defend/rebound without more size.

If anything our offense should be more efficient. All three of those guys led top five offenses previously.

[JustAwesome]

Are you sure that Collins ran the triangle when he was coaching the Bulls? Pretty sure that came after he was removed from the job.

[twix2500]

Collins began creating the triangle offense, and Tex Winters mastered it.

[DefenseWins]

I don't want to knock Spo on this, but what really makes our offense good nowadays is having the best player in basketball right now, one of the best slashers in the league, then there's Bosh, then a bunch of 3 point shooters.


The shooters are easy. But finding a guy like LeBron and Wade, are extremely hard. Not any team can just do it.

I saw Indiana try to copy the Heat so many times. They couldn't do it because they didn't have their talent be like LeBron/Wade.

Also if there are problems in the offense, so many times you see people just move out the way for Wade or LeBron to make something happen. There is a LOT of improvising, and that's due to the incredible talent the Heat has.

I also believe Spo's offense has been able to work because there's only what, 3 Centers in the league that can give us trouble? The Center position is terrible in the league. A team can't stop us, unless they have shooters too or a big guy that can beat us down low and from the outside (Dallas). But when they don't, that crown is ours.

[SmushedPennies]

Collins began creating the triangle offense, and Tex Winters mastered it.

Close, twix. Collins had assistants Tex Winters and Johnny Bach, who were proponents of the triangle. Doug, not so much:

"Doug [Collins] had a hard time with the Triangle, because his backdrop as a coach was Hank Iba, who coached him in the '72 Olympics," Jackson says. "He really believed that the guards should be at half court when a shot was being taken on offense [in order to stop transition], so he didn't like the idea of a guard being stuck in that corner."

In 1962, Winter literally wrote the book on the Triangle, which he titled The Triple Post Offense. Now 89 years old, Winter suffered a stroke in 2009. He remains in poor health.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7346315/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense

So Tex "mastered it" way before Doug was coaching.

We do use triangle-type sets every now and then, but I wouldn't mind seeing it more. Here's why:

When the Bulls ran this offense in the '90s, the key adaptation Jackson made was moving Scottie Pippen to the top of the key and playing Jordan as a forward (in Los Angeles, he made a similar tweak with Lamar Odom and Bryant). But those players would have succeeded in any offense. The real advantage of the Triangle is what it does for players with less ability. Most NBA sets are static; they require perimeter players to create their own shot, usually off the dribble. The Triangle's relentless off-the-ball movement allows standing jump shooters to contribute within their own preexisting skill set. This is why it worked so well for John Paxson and Steve Kerr, and even for guys like Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton. You don't need four or five athletic scorers to make the Triangle work. Two is plenty, because it amplifies the value of role players.

As you can see, it would fit our personnel perfectly.

Regarding Spo revolutionizing offense, as has been stated, no one has personnel like ours, so no.

[twix2500]

Your right Smush on both Collins and Winters, and your right that other teams do not have the big three that we have. But remember No one had Scottie and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq, but other teams tried to bring the triangle offense to their teams as well. And yes they failed because they didnt have Kobe and Jordan. This is why personally I never been a proponent of copying someone else offense, instead of building a scheme around your talent. But wouldnt you still call the triangle offense evolutionary?? I can see teams trying to mimick the Miami Heat dispite the lack of proper talent.

[SmushedPennies]

Probably because the triangle is more of a defined philosophy, while Spo's offensive identity is more of a style. Essentially its just moving wings to power positions and PFs to C. Its not new.

[Pimpwerx]

I think we just run an offense off spacing and reads. Spo relies on our ballhandlers to read the defense and execute the right kinds of plays.

I don't think we're any specific kind of offense. I see bits of the princeton in how we operate. We generally stay our of the paint and have guys flash in and out of the post, or make cuts to the rim. We run a lot of the high-pnr when it comes down to close game situations as well.

I think when we see guys just clearing out of the way, people immediately think iso, but I think it's just spacing at work. We leave the paint area clear and if Wade or Bron want to iso, they can. If they want to back down their man into the post, they can. Both options allow our superstars to exploit 1-on-1 situations, or create ball movement once the defense collapses for help.

I think it's all situational, and you can't peg us as one specific type of offense. PEACE.

[SmushedPennies]

Exactly. There's no scheme to imitate here. They'd have to copy the personnel.

[EscapoTHB]

Spo has said how many times that we don't run plays? I think he's developed the right style for the players we have--but I think it is impossible to copy because of that. There isn't another Lebron James out there. Lebron pretty much makes every crazy idea work because of his versatility on the defensive end, and his rebounding. He's the reason we can toss out positional play, because who else out there is effectively a point-center?

I do think lebron playing out of the post has simplified our reads and spacing a lot, and made it much easier for guys to know what to do on offense from play to play. Lebron on the box makes Wade's job a lot simpler off the ball. Our shooters know where to go. And Bosh can do Bosh things.

What I am interested to see is if teams start trying to defend Lebron with PFs to try and get him out of the post--I wonder what we'll do to most take advantage of that. In the past, when you put a 4 on Lebron, he tends to run LeIso and settle for a jumper over the big who sits back too far--which wouldn't be good for our offense. But maybe if we ran a 4-5 pick and roll so opposing teams would have both their bigs out on the perimeter chasing Lebron and Bosh to the basket--that would be the best? Or alternatively that dribble handoff Wade and Lebron run which seems to always score.

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing more wade/lebron pick and roll this year. I still think that play is basically undefendable. Particularly with the shooters we now have.

[SmushedPennies]

Spo has seemed to hold the LeWade PnR off until late in the season, presumably for scouting purposes.

When fours are on LeBron, we could either bring him out to the perimeter to break them down, or put him in the mid-post where he can use his speed as an advantage.

[twix2500]

Adapted from the triple-post offense Winter played in while at USC in the 1940s, the triangle doesn't have plays, but sets and formations. As players read a defense, they look to drive into openings, run backdoor cuts and share the ball, all in hope of finding a weakness to be exploited. If working as planned, the ball moves quickly and equally among all five players.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z29PK1FEA6

Does Nelly ball have plays??

[JustAwesome]

Collins began creating the triangle offense, and Tex Winters mastered it.

Offense was created a couple of decades prior to Collins coaching the Bulls.To give you an idea of just how far back it goes, Winters was playing for the coach that created it.

But remember No one had Scottie and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq, but other teams tried to bring the triangle offense to their teams as well. And yes they failed because they didnt have Kobe and Jordan.

Those other teams failed to implement the triangle offense not because they didn't have a superstar to dominate the ball. They failed because they didn't have an entire roster committed to playing that style. The ball dominant superstar is just necessary to take over in case the system failed to create an open shot.

[CablexDeadpool]

Adapted from the triple-post offense Winter played in while at USC in the 1940s, the triangle doesn't have plays, but sets and formations. As players read a defense, they look to drive into openings, run backdoor cuts and share the ball, all in hope of finding a weakness to be exploited. If working as planned, the ball moves quickly and equally among all five players.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z29PK1FEA6

Does Nelly ball have plays??

Nah it doesn't, how could it ?

It relies on guards and forwards, and outshooting the other team.

I miss those days

Spo's offense really is Nellyball with some type of structure and a good defense. Don Nelson has played Al Harrington at Forward and Center, Stephen Jackson at SG, SF and PF, Maggette even played at PF, Anthony Randolph played at SF, PF and Center and the list could go on.

So having a Centerless, positionless offense is nothing new.

It's pretty much NellyBall.

[SmushedPennies]

Of course Nellyball had plays. Maybe if he had vets like we do he could rely on guys knowing when to set pin-downs and where to be and all that, but he had to guide the guys with play-sets, no doubt.

[twix2500]

So now we have an official name for the offense, plus the offense has evolved even more as the "Pace and Space Offense".

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... ce_Offense

Erik Spoelstra met with Oregon's football coach Chip Kelly two summers ago and the two discussed a fast paced offense centered around athleticism and speed. Spoelstra called the offense "pace-and-space".

The Miami Heat used that offense to great effect in Monday's 124-99 win over the Phoenix Suns.

The Heat went 15-for-26 on three-pointers and recorded 33 assists.

The idea is very similar to "Seven Seconds or Less".

[Sc0pe92]

Its crazy you would think a team with Wade lebron and bosh and allen would be the most selfish team on the planet...yet we are the most unselfish team on the planet

[GetMoney]

they'd never come together if they were selfish. the media desperately tried to make them selfish. "it's ___ team !!", "someone has to be the alpha dog!!!"

[Sc0pe92]

they'd never come together if they were selfish. the media desperately tried to make them selfish. "it's ___ team !!", "someone has to be the alpha dog!!!"

Exactly