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Obviously all opinion and projection for now, but assuming Ray is locked in with our best lineups, who do you think overall completes the lineup the best, not considering matchups?

Battier would be the most balanced two-way option, most likely, while Rio would create the most matchup issues for other teams, and offensive versatility for us. Not to mention, a lineup with Rio would generate a ton of turnovers, since Ray is still great at anticipating and picking off passes. I see Miller as halfway between those two, and probably the best shooter at this point, which is why I'm leaning his way. He's great at moving the ball and finding the open man, and his rebounding would be a major plus.

Rashard can be a nice option when he gets his rhythm steady, with his disruptive length and post game. Haslem's rebounding and the fact that Synergy had him as our best defender last year, coupled with a hopefully-back-to-normal jumper, gives him a case, though the spacing would shrink a tad. I also think Shane is probably as good defending PFs as UD is at this point, though you'd then lose rebounding. Brings me back to Miller, who is an underrated defender when mostly healthy, and an animal on the boards.

I threw in Cole and Harrellson instead of "Other," and there are arguments for each schematically, especially now that Norris is looking Cole-blooded from 3.

What do you guys think?

I love that there are so many options now. We thought we were a juggernaut in 2010 because we signed the Gator boys (UD/MM) right after Decision Day. Those 2 + the Big 3 made for an outstanding lineup in their limited time on the floor in the 2011 playoffs, as well as last season (recall that game in Philly where they took over?), but now we can clearly do better.

Good thread.

ive been thinking about our possible line-ups lately, and im not sure there's a clear cut answer for two reasons :

1. It really depends on the matchup, who are we playing against. player X can be the best fit one day while against a different team player Y could replace him.

2. We're not really sure how well guys are going to produce this year. this is espically true regarding Miller, Lewis, UD and Jorts :
Miller - needs to show he can stay healthy.
Lewis - needs to get his legs back and get close to his old form. not there yet.
UD - needs to get his jumper back, i believe he will but we need to see it on a consistant bases.
Jorts - only a second year player, he's still somewhat of an unknown.

With that said, trying to answer the question - when i look at our lineup of :

Wade
Allen
LBJ
Bosh

You have to ask yourself, what Attribute is missing the most, what skillset whould benfit that lineup the most. my answer is : hustle, inside presence, toughness, rebounding.
that leaves me with 3 names : Battier, Haslem and Harrellson. Miller could also be considerd with his excellent rebounding against softer teams.

Battier - is a perfect glue guy that knows how to play the game and does all the little things the stats dont show,
UD - with his jumper coming back, is decent on offense while providing the best rebounding stats on the team whice seem to have rebounding as it's biggest issue,
Jorts - i just like his game and how he fits. big kid that can move, hit outside shots, seems to have high BB IQ, can bang down low and clog the paint of defense while still providing spacing on offense, just what he need.

so to sum it up :

Against big physical teams : Harrellson
Against soft teams : Miller
against athletic teams - UD
against most teams, that are somewhat balanced : Battier.

Well, I thought for sure Haslem and Miller would be part of the Heatles since the 2010 FA, but Ray Allen has had a way better career thus far and has had the best career of all the players.

At the same time, Chalmers has earned his stripes as a Miami Heat and is probably Heat for life if everything goes our way in 2014.

Tough decision, but since you auto-included Ray Allen, I'm going to go with Udonis Haslem.

I'm going with Haslem...of course, that's the Haslem we saw at the end of last year, when Spo reincorporated the pick and pop. He stretches the floor with his midrange jumper, is extremely clutch, is very tough, will rebound, and will hustle. Doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, either...

Rex --

Regarding 1, yeah that's why I wanted to try to not thing about matchups. This could be pertinent because Spo tends to believe in making the other team match up against us. On 2, I wanted to see what people thought with the limited information we have right now, somewhat projecting where they think things will go.

Not sure that lineup NEEDS inside presence, on either side of the floor. All 4 are capable in the post, with Bosh and LeBron being great with low position, and both can also guard bigs inside effectively. Do agree on toughness, though.

The thing to remember about Jorts: He was not only a rookie last season, but:

1) He, like Norris, had a steep learning curve because of the lockout. No offseason and few practices, on top of being on a team in turmoil (how many different iterations of the Knicks did we see last year), with a midseason coaching change.

2) He only had one real season of on court playing time in college.

3) He played his first 5-on-5 game in high school.

People don't seem to consider how much room he has for improvement. He's not a high-ceiling guy, physically, but that doesn't mean he can't improve a lot. I'd like to think our coaching staff is ahead of NY's.

1. UD with a jumper
2. Chalmers considering the work he has put in the last two seasons.
3. Battier for being Mr Consistent (yes he was off with the shot in the beginning of the season, but he has always been consistent)
4/5. Miller, Lewis a coin toss. Although I love Millers hustle, if Lewis puts in the work he can really help the team.

Honestly we shouldn`t expect much from Jorts, he is a work in progress.

As of now I'd say it's a toss up between Battier and Chalmers with a slight edge to Battier. With Mario out there Wade or Allen is forced to move to the SF position which could cause some match up problems defensively. But at the same time Mario has shown time and time again that he's about as fearless as a role player can be in the big moments. If UD can get his jumper back he'd also be an excellent addition and can provide some much needed toughness on the defensive end in crunch time.

So many options...

If it's a given he's sticking his jumpshot as in years past, I'd say Haslem. He brings rebounding, defense and toughness, serves as the designated team enforcer, isn't afraid of the moment, and is simply an all around intelligent basketball player.

For maximum stretching of the floor and spacing I'd go with Battier as the second choice because the threat of his three-point shooting also comes with versatile defensive skills that allows him to guard 2's, 3's, and 4's.

The beauty of this team's potential is its interchangeability. Multiple options and configurations that each bring unique advantages to the court depending on the situation.

Chalmers. Another ball handler that can put it on the floor & drive as well as shoot from outside.

I voted Battier: His ability to stretch the floor and help the big 3 on the offensive end was a revelation when implemented. He deserves this spot at the start of the season as long as he doesn’t stink it up from behind the 3-point line.

If he does and we need a better defensive unit I’d go with Haslem, this if he can find some confidence in his jumper again. These two alternatives would probably have about the same result in the end.

OT: I prefer Rio to Allen. Rio is better with the ball, and has shown a whole lot of end game qualities on both side of the floor. If Allen doesn’t turn the clock back to a time where he’s ankles is in better shape, I most likely take a healthy Miller over him as well due to a big rebounding boost.

Obviously there’s a big bonus if all of the guys in the line-up can help on both sides of the floor in the final minutes. I think this was Heat’s greatest strength last year and I don’t really see how Allen fits into that unless he can turn back the time to a place where his legs were younger.

OT2: Is it possible that a bigger line-up emerges over 82 games with a Wade, Lebron, Battier, Bosh, Harrellson? Yeah, I’m on the Harrellson-wagon. Deal with it!

Will be very interesting when the numbers over what units work the best starts adding up. I need the season to start. Nao!



Good topic.

Yeah, hopefully Spo keeps experimenting with the combinations early, giving them all decent enough sample sizes to prove their value. I think the best net lineup with Allen and the B3 will be with Battier.

The reason I locked Ray in is, despite all of the sacrifice talk surrounding this roster, I'm sure part of the discussions with Ray centered around him being a closer/tense-minute-player. Plus, we've seen how Spo is with vets. They get the benefit of the doubt.

Mars wrote:The beauty of this team's potential is its interchangeability. Multiple options and configurations that each bring unique advantages to the court depending on the situation.

Exactly. The fact that there are 4-5 really good, arguably-equal options that range from PG to C shows how versatile the rotation is. Our top 4 is already possibly the most versatile core in the league, then you have a slew of various possible 5th-best player options.

Heat_team02 wrote:Chalmers. Another ball handler that can put it on the floor & drive as well as shoot from outside.

This is why I think it'll be our best offensive lineup. Not many top-notch lineups in the league with 5 guys who can get to the hoop off-the-dribble. Having all those ball-handlers will be a headache for defenses, not to mention a PF would almost certainly have to guard LeBron in traditional lineups. Ray is used to guarding SFs at this point, having done it a lot with Boston, and Wade has the length and strength to do it even better. Plus, perimeter defense is more about quickness and length as opposed to height. I remember Detroit and Dallas trying to use Prince and Howard on Wade in '06, only to discover Lindsay Hunter and Devin Harris were much more effective.

The more I think about it, Battier would be my primary option. Putting him on the floor with one of Ray/Mario/Miller/Rashard, stretching the floor and creating space for LeBron/Wade/Bosh, is a proven championship proven combo you don't walk away from until someone figures a way to crack that code.

I agree, and its a luxury we could have better options. It is a little easier for teams to hide a PF on Battier, because of his lack of driving game, but at the same time it keeps their mind on the perimeter to close out on his threes.

I gave the option to change votes because minds can be swayed with further thought. If anyone does, try to tell us why you changed your mind.

im torn between battier and UD w/ his jumper.

Shane for his iq and pesky defense

UD for his rebounding and physicality.



I gotta go with shane unless its a power matchup

BATTIER

ultimate role player

Probably Battier for the most part but if Miller is healthy and on fire from downtown, then I would want him in the game. He can do it all when he can actually move. Score, rebound, pass, handle the ball, etc.

With RayRay alongside the Big3, I want to say Battier or Miller, but I look at this as the best non-Allen, non-Big3 player on the roster. IOW, the 4th-best player on the team. I think you need to get your best 5 on the floor at important moments. So, I picked Chalmers.

Ray will be honored at a legendary shooter, and he deserves it. However, Rio shoots the ball very well himself, but also creates better for his teammates, and finishes around the rim better. Rio is really impressing me with his aggressiveness right now. I always knew he had the ability to be a 3rd slasher for us, but tonight I liked his aggression. In the 3OT game in ATL, he was a monster as far as initiating the offense is concered. He can take guys off the dribble, and uses his length well to finish at the rim. He showed that same aggression at various times in the playoffs, particularly when we needed him to. I think he's the best 5th wheel, but we'll see how often we'll see him, Ray and Wade on court at the same time.

Kind of extending that line of thought. Who can Rio guard? Is he limited just to PGs? Can he guard SGs? I think he can. Can he guard SFs? I don't remember seeing him tasked with that yet. I'm just spitballing, because Ray's probably one of the worst defenders on the team now. He strikes me as Miller and Jones bad on defense. PEACE.

Healthy Miller is better than Ray defensively. I think people are forgetting how well he defended his first year here.

Rio can definitely guard a lot of the guys playing 2 in today's NBA, especially with his length. Would think teams would have to be going pretty small on the perimeter for us to put him on a 3.

It was the final game of the preseason but Battier's rebounding is worrisome and something to keep an eye on. If Miller continues to look like this he's definable a viable option for the starting line-up. No way around it. He has looked shockingly spry this preseason.

Knocking down shoots and additional rebounding is what's most needed from the "5th Heatle". Battier/Miller feels like a toss up impact wise at the moment. No idea how the defense would look with Miller and Allen on the floor at the same time but I would agree with the notion that Miller looks better against 3's then 2's on that end.

I agree that Rio is the 4 best player and this is a good argument to why he should be on the floor. Not sure he's the best option in this scenario tho. I think his defense on both 1s and 2s is good.