Page 1 of 3

Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:56 pm
by RexBoyWonder
As you know the additions of Greg Oden and Michael Beasley have lit up our imaginations about the possibilities for the future - If they pan out, could we even keep them after this year ? and could we bring a strong enough supporting cast under the this new CBA?

Obviously it's impossible to predict the furture of a roster with so many unknown variables - injuries, off court issues, basketball needs - so everything said in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt.

With that said, it's intersting to try and see what are some of the more realistic directions we could go as team in the next few years.

Ill try to break down just 1 scenario, which i admit is an optimistic one but i still try to keep it realistic. (No, we won't add Carmelo).

So let's say Both Oden and Beasley have a reasonably good season and help us in the playoffs. could we even keep them for next year? Let's break it down :

Projected Salary cap for the 2014-2015 season = 62.5

Projected luxury tax threshold for the 2014-2015 season = 75

(figures may be adjusted but let's assume they'll remain similar)

1. First key move will be to resign the big 3 to new longer contracts. I wont' go into detail about that, but i think it's fair to say we could sign them all at a discount price (again) for several reasons : Age and loyalty (Wade) off the court earnings and legacy (Lebron) or just appreciation for what we have going here (Bosh). As long as we offer fair contracts and don't expect them to take really huge paycuts, i believe it's a very realistic option. So :

Lebron + Wade + Bosh combined for 45-48 Mil$ for 2014-2015, with yearly raises each year after that for 5 years. The differnce between them making 45Mil and making 48Mil could impact the our ability to keep Mario Chalmers.

So let's assume they love Rio and agree to 45Mil combined. (15 per year each, or Lebron makes a little more then Wade and Bosh in the middle, doesn't matter).

2. Next biggest contract on the books is Haslem's - he has an option for 4.6 Mil for 2014-2015. He's our boy and might even stay around after his platying days are over like Juwan Howard so i can see us offering him a 2 year deal instead, for 3 Mil per year. It makes sense for both sides - we gain some needed cap space for 2014-2105 and he gets to hang around for an extra year without losing money (since he'll be a minimum veteran player in 2015-2016 anyway).

3. Next biggest contract on the books for 2014-2015 is Joel's. He has an option for 3.8 Mil. This contract is the one we have to get rid of, in anyway possible. Luckily it's the last year on his contract so it's a very movable contract, even if we have to sweeten it with an attached future draft pick.

4. We have an option to retain Norris cole for 2 Mil$, which we'll pick up.

5. Birdman has an option for 1.4 Mil, which he'll pick up.

6. We offer Mario Chalmers a 4 year 4Mil per year contract (16 Mil total), which he accepts. I believe that's a fair deal, no other team in the league will offer much more for a backup PG, and no other team will make him their starting PG for the future at this stage.

7. We offer Oden a raise - 4 Mil$ for 2014-2015. This might seem low but keep in mind he'd hardly play enough minutes this year to be offered huge contracts from other teams. And he did chose to join us this year inspite getting bigger offers elsewhere. We might need to add a higher player option for 2015-2016 to make him accept, but for his limited role and considering the fact that in this scenario we basically brought his carre back to life - i think he'll accept and stay. This will also give us his bird right for 2015-2016, which will allow us to keep him regardless of Salary cap space limitations.

8. We give Beasley a small raise to 1.3 Mil. It's important to remember that He'll still be getting paid by PHX next year, Same thing as the Birdman situation. Beas would stay with his home team on a discount for 1 year (2014-2015) partly beacuse the PHX money will compensate him. Also you can't ignore the emotional aspect with him. He's finally feeling at home, and we're the team that gave him his career back. Then like with Oden, in 2015-2016 we'll have his bird rights and could offer his a healthy raise, and we will. I think He'll appricate what this team did for him and he already saw the grass might not be as green on bad teams. Also other teams will be wary about making the same mistake that PHX did, some players need a strong organization and team mates to flourish. Beas is one of them it seems. He knows it by now, and so does the rest of the NBA.

9. We sign our late first rounder draft (2014) pick for 0.7 Mil.

10. We sign our own 2013 draft pick James Ennis for the minimum of 0.5 Mil.

11. We sign our own 2012 draft pick Justin Hamilton for a minimum of 0.5 Mil.

Let's recap :

Lebron + Wade + Bosh = 45
Haslem = 3
Cole = 2
Birdman = 1.4
Rio = 4
Oden = 4
Beasley = 1.3 (plus 2.3 Mil from PHX)
2014 draft pick - 0.7
Ennis - 0.5
J.Hamilton - 0.5

This gives us 12 players under contract, which means we have 0 cap holds.

Combined salaries for these 12 players = 62.4 Mil. Just below the salary cap.

Since we're still far enough below the luxury tax threshold, We could also use the FULL MLE to add another quality player. some of the best free agents options are :

Thabo Sefolosha
Brandon Rush
Emeka Okafor
Jordan Hill
Ed Davis

Personally i like Jordan Hill, but let's say we choose Okafor because he's more likely to accept our offer and he's a more experienced Center.

So we add Okafor for the Full MLE (5.3 Mil per year, up to 4 years).

Now the only additions we're allowed to make are veteran minimum contracts. Let's say we keep Roger Mason JR for the Min of 1.4, and also get Battier for one last run at the title, another 1.4 Mil deal.

This give us a rotation of :

Mario/Cole/Draft pick
Wade/Draft pick/Mason
Lebron/Ennis/Battier
Bosh/Beasley/Haslem
Okafor/Oden/Birdman/Hamilton

15 players roster, we kept everyone, for a total salary of 70.4 Mil$. We also have the bird rights of every player on the roster, so we won't be limited by the cap space going forward and could offer Oden and Beasley bigger longer contracts before the 2015-2016 season. The luxury tax also won't be as harsh because we escaped the repeat offender tax rate by going under the luxury tax threshold for the 2014-2015 season.

Obviously there's no guarantees everything works out this perfectly, Oden or Beasley might insist on a few extra Milions, or the big 3 might insist on getting at least 16 Mil each on the first year of their new contracts, who knows. In that case we might have to let Mario Chalmers go and replace him with a Vetran minimum type player and make Cole our starting PG. The point is - we have the freedom to tweak things as we choose because there are so few guaranteed contract on our books.

I'd also like to hear other scenarios from anyone who's got one, whether it's by creating a better roster or a more realistic one if you find this one to be too optimstic.

Damn this turned out a long ass post...sorry.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:59 pm
by DWadeno3
A few things I disagree with:

- I don't think UD will make another sacrifice. He's signed cheaper contracts to stay with us several times, he will search for his 4.6 mil next year and then possibly an extension

- According to hoopshype, Andersen's 1.4 mil are a guaranteed deal and no option for him. If it is, however, I'm very sure he'll look to cash in one last time if he can stay as productive as he was for us late last season.

- Assuming Beasley is as productive as you said he would be in the other thread, I could see a team throw the full MLE at him. You said it yourself, the guy has potential and if he has a 6th man role on our team, look out for somebody to offer him the full MLE.

- As for Oden, we'd have to specifically say how impactful he'll be. Is he gonna be a consistent force, is he gonna be a starter or how is he gonna play? If he's only gonna show up in 30 or 40 games for about 15 MPG while being productive, your figure could be right. If he comes off the bench in 60 games for let's say 20-25 minutes, that could change to a higher figure. Remember, Bynum has received this deal from the Cavs mainly based on potential and while he, unlike Oden, has shown it a little more often, there's no reason to believe 60 healthy, productive games of Oden couldn't at least net him the MLE.

- The 45 mil for the Big Three could work if we have something to show for it. Otherwise, let's calculate more in the 50 million dollar range with LeBron receiving the full max and Wade and Bosh lesser deals. A lot of this also depends on how Wade's season will go of course.

- Rio's 4 million I agree with.

In your scenario, I assume Beasley would take on the Allen role as the 6th man off the bench. The point where I just disagree with you is that if he can show to be that productive at his age, he'll probably land a better deal than what you offered him. I also think 45 mil for the Big Three is pretty optimistic and I see higher figures for both UD and Bird (unless he is signed and sealed for the 1.4 mil next year).

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:01 pm
by krikor
I think next year will be last for ray allen, battier, lewis, birdman, haslem ...we need to keep the core of chalmers, cole, beasley, wade, lebron, bosh....and add new role players. Hope some take pay cut for championships. Like Malone/Payton did for lakers ..

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:16 pm
by Dudedude88
If rockets let Asik go... One of the most underrated centers in the league. Great rebounder and one of the best defensive centers in the league. He was a double double machine last year. A good role player to lock up defenses.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:01 pm
by RexBoyWonder
DWadeno3 wrote:A few things I disagree with:

- I don't think UD will make another sacrifice. He's signed cheaper contracts to stay with us several times, he will search for his 4.6 mil next year and then possibly an extension



Like i said, He's not " sacrificing" anything by signing a new deal for 2 years worth 6 milion. It will only be a sacrifice if you think a 34 year old Haslem after all his injuries will get more the vereran minimum contract on the free market. I dont think he will.

- According to hoopshype, Andersen's 1.4 mil are a guaranteed deal and no option for him. If it is, however, I'm very sure he'll look to cash in one last time if he can stay as productive as he was for us late last season.


Andersen has a player option, i remember that clearly and this page confirm it :
http://data.shamsports.com/content/page ... s/heat.jsp

I dont think Chris will go anywhere, he'll be 36 YO by that time. We might offer him another extra year or even 2 (minimum for each extra year) in order to sweeten the deal, but i heard him say he's more concerned about his legacy at this point and that's why he chose to stay with us this year on a discount. Why would that change next year?

- Assuming Beasley is as productive as you said he would be in the other thread, I could see a team throw the full MLE at him. You said it yourself, the guy has potential and if he has a 6th man role on our team, look out for somebody to offer him the full MLE.


Well it's possible, but you ignored the reasoning i provided. Beas is not a normal player and this is not a normal situation. I think it's worth it to him to stay 1 year on a discount considering everything he went through and the way he's talking about coming home to Miami and how good he finally feels. Especially After Pat seats him down and explains how we'll make him a nice offer when we'll have his bird right the following year and keep him home long term. I doubt he wants to go back to being a journeyman on the Minnesotas of the league, even if they would want him. Worst case scenario - If he won't be happy making 3.6 Mil for next year (our offer + the PHX buyout) we might have to choose between keeping Beas or keeping Mario.

- As for Oden, we'd have to specifically say how impactful he'll be. Is he gonna be a consistent force, is he gonna be a starter or how is he gonna play? If he's only gonna show up in 30 or 40 games for about 15 MPG while being productive, your figure could be right. If he comes off the bench in 60 games for let's say 20-25 minutes, that could change to a higher figure. Remember, Bynum has received this deal from the Cavs mainly based on potential and while he, unlike Oden, has shown it a little more often, there's no reason to believe 60 healthy, productive games of Oden couldn't at least net him the MLE.


You're righy, I just don't think he'll play anything close to 60 games with 20-25 minutes a game. I dont think that's realistic at all. I believe 15 minutes in 30-40 games is the OPTIMISTIC scenario for him. in which case 4 Mil should be enough to keep him considering his situation which is not really normal, just like Beasley's isn't.

- The 45 mil for the Big Three could work if we have something to show for it. Otherwise, let's calculate more in the 50 million dollar range with LeBron receiving the full max and Wade and Bosh lesser deals. A lot of this also depends on how Wade's season will go of course.


Dont we have 2 championships to show for it already? We dont know exactly how much is that worth for them in off the court earnings, but my guess is being on this contending, under the spotlight, no state tax team is worth more then those couple of milions. That's before talking about legacy, Heat family, location and other non cash issues.
I believe staying is worth more in the bank then leaving, even if they take this kind of paycut (45-48 combined).

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:46 am
by HeatNation88
krikor wrote:I think next year will be last for ray allen, battier, lewis, birdman, haslem ...we need to keep the core of chalmers, cole, beasley, wade, lebron, bosh....and add new role players. Hope some take pay cut for championships. Like Malone/Payton did for lakers ..


I'm going to disagree with part of what you had said but first i do agree with you about it being Battier's last year with the Heat retiring. But i disagree with you about it being Ray Allen's last year with the Heat he is in shape and is even playing almost at his college weight so i doubt he will retire at this season end or leave the Heat i believe he has two years to go it doesn't matter about age its about health. Birdman will stay he may be aging but he signed a two year contract with the second year of it being a player option but him being like Allen lost some weight and is not expecting to leave the Heat soon. The Heat won't let Haslem go he is a key factor to our team he is a true warrior and he is part of the Heat family the only way we will see Haslem go is when he retires or we low ball on his contract which i doubt. And Lewis wants to be apart of a contender and enjoys being with his good "Friend" and "Long time Teammate" Ray Allen so i doubt he leaves unless he is disappointed about playing time or will retire. Most if these guys would take pay cuts to be apart of this team to win more titles. But we must add some younger players so maybe next fee agency and hopefully the draft if we have picks to improve so we can build them with the Big 3 and other players.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:49 am
by HeatNation88
krikor wrote:I think next year will be last for ray allen, battier, lewis, birdman, haslem ...we need to keep the core of chalmers, cole, beasley, wade, lebron, bosh....and add new role players. Hope some take pay cut for championships. Like Malone/Payton did for lakers ..


Also to add on Riley will keep the core he knows whats best for the team. Just sit back and relax 2014 free agency isn't here yet and we will see a turning point in the 2014 Free agency where i believe we will see the best Free agency since 2010 but better. There will be players from the core of the team that will take pay cuts to stay.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:51 am
by HeatNation88
RexBoyWonder wrote:4. We have an option to retain Norris cole for 2 Mil$, which we'll pick up.



Just for the heads up we picked up Cole's 2 Mil$ option for next year.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:19 am
by RexBoyWonder
MiamiHeatFan6 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:4. We have an option to retain Norris cole for 2 Mil$, which we'll pick up.



Just for the heads up we picked up Cole's 2 Mil$ option for next year.


Right..forgot about that. It was a no brainer really, i think he'll get even more minutes this year and go head to head with Rio in the starting PG race.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:51 pm
by ifrosty13
Can you guys just enjoy this season before speculating about next season? It seems like this is the subject in EVERY topic.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:35 pm
by orangeparka
It reall depends on this point how willing some of our guys will be to restructuring their contracts. I know Wade said some encouraging things and all, but you can't be too sure.

I can totally see Haslem doing what you said. Joel is going to be the tough one here.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:52 pm
by Heat_team02
Gotta finalize this year's roster first.

Getting cut are Justin Hamilton, Jarvis Varnado, Charlie Westbrook, Larry Drew & Eric Griffin.


Making the team are Michael Beasley & Roger Mason Jr.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:16 pm
by heat4life
Heat_team02 wrote:Gotta finalize this year's roster first.

Getting cut are Justin Hamilton, Jarvis Varnado, Charlie Westbrook, Larry Drew & Eric Griffin.


Making the team are Michael Beasley & Roger Mason Jr.


I concur Doctor with at least 3 of those players going to Heat's D-League affiliate.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:46 pm
by mopper8
If we win a title I think Ray and Shane stay on another year on min deals to go for the 4-peat, something nobody has done since Russell's Celts. Especially if guys like Beas and Oden pan out and Ennis comes over, they both would be seeing smaller roles = easier on the body = less incentive to retire.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:59 pm
by RexBoyWonder
mopper8 wrote:If we win a title I think Ray and Shane stay on another year on min deals to go for the 4-peat, something nobody has done since Russell's Celts. Especially if guys like Beas and Oden pan out and Ennis comes over, they both would be seeing smaller roles = easier on the body = less incentive to retire.


Well the reason i added Battier and not Allen in the original scenario is the age difference.

Battier will be 36 YO, Allen would be 39 YO. Even if Allen would like to keep playing for the minimum, you have to wonder if he could keep up with the tough eastern playing style. He'll always be a pure shooter, but the other aspects of the game.....

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:51 pm
by heat4life
mopper8 wrote:If we win a title I think Ray and Shane stay on another year on min deals to go for the 4-peat, something nobody has done since Russell's Celts. Especially if guys like Beas and Oden pan out and Ennis comes over, they both would be seeing smaller roles = easier on the body = less incentive to retire.


If we win, I think Ray Allen comes back 1 more season. He got in the best shape since his early career days. I doubt he will do it for just one season, especially if he remains relatively healthy.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:01 pm
by GreenHat
mopper8 wrote:If we win a title I think Ray and Shane stay on another year on min deals to go for the 4-peat, something nobody has done since Russell's Celts. Especially if guys like Beas and Oden pan out and Ennis comes over, they both would be seeing smaller roles = easier on the body = less incentive to retire.


Agreed. Everyone is saying that everyone is retiring after this season. If its a good season I think they all come back. We don't have a Juwan Howard type on this team yet.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:48 am
by RexBoyWonder
So i've been just messing around with the numbers, and been thinking about a scenario where Oden doesn't work out and we try to get another Center, the best one we could land. Made a few changes from the original post and i think this is another intersting direction we might be able to go to in 2014-2015 :


Salary cap for 2014-2015 = 62.5 Mil$
Luxury tax threshold for 2014-2015 = 75 Mil$

Wade + Bosh + LBJ = 44 Mil$ combind
Gortat = 8.5 (offer 4 guaranteed years if we need to, with yearly raises)
Haslem = 3
Cole = 2
Birdman = 1.5
2014 Draft pick = 0.9
Ennis = 0.47 minimum
J.Hamilton = 0.47 Minmum
E.Griffin = 0.47
Beasley = 1.2 minimum (Gets another $2.33 mil from PHX in 2014-2015)


12 players under contract = no cap holds

= 62.5 in total salary, just under the cap salary limit.

+

FULL-MLE (starts at 5.3 Mil for first year, up to 4 years) available to teams under the luxury tax threshold :

Kyle Lowry (22 Mil for 4 years - on average 5.5 per year)

+

Now we can only add vet minimum players :

Allen 1.4 minimum
+
Mason - 1.4 minimum

= 71 Mil$ in total salary for 15 players, stayed under the luxury tax threshold.

Rotation :

Lowry/Cole/Mason
Wade/Allen/Draft pick
Lebron/Ennis/Griffin
Bosh/Beasley/Haslem
Gortat/Birdman/Hamilton

Summary : we get rid of Joel (sweeten his contract with cash and or future draft pick), Dont resign Chalmers, Quit the Oden project and add a bunch of cheap young guys and 2 very nice players at our weakest positions : PG and Center - Lowry and Gortat. I like this roster and it's seems reasonably realistic IMO.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:18 am
by orangeparka
^You don't have the full MLE in that scenario. You have to waive the MLE to have cap space to sign Gortat.

Re: Building the Heat roster for 2014-2015 and beyond

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:16 am
by RexBoyWonder
orangeparka wrote:^You don't have the full MLE in that scenario. You have to waive the MLE to have cap space to sign Gortat.


Damn that's right.

Just read the CBA again to refresh my memory and the MiniMLE has a cap hold also, which **** things up.